1.3 physics discussion cont on bac board.

[Fried]

Problem is Avatar losing the manouverabilty in the air is a big problem, ive tested this beta for some time, several RIP had access to the beta and several chose to play 1.2 and tolerate the other bugs just for the fun factor.
I will play 1.3 but i sure as hell wont stop playing 1.2 and fe zst etc

So far strat tactics have consisted of mass apc attacks n sending the bomber on a flanking attack and redirecting it's target. Bait the ai rckt tanks and the base is blown.

Is anyone currently having trouble with human v human dogfights or is 1.3 totally 56k unfriendly re this area. ?

[Dirty Rooster]

I have 56k and in testing 1.3 in strats I haven't had
problems scout v scout.
But 'something' feels different.

I can get speed fine 'W-E' and get high off hills
no problem.

Maybe warp is reduced in 1.3, more testing...

[deadscion]

I can acheive top speed but the acceleration is slower to respond. I can use the jump button but the jump is slower to respond. Strafe is also slow to respond.  Hover I don't care about hover I just want the thing move when I tell it to and if it doesn't then by God I'll make a ship that does.

If I can't make a ship worthy of my needs for my kind of "fun" I will not use 1.3. Flexibility is the key, this should be flexible to MY needs for fun.

If I tell you the scout is too stiff then it is too stiff. I don't care what anyone else sees or agrees with.

[Speedy]

I believe balance issues were not yet sorted in 1.3. The mobility of certain ships needs to be balance. For example: turrets are WAY too slow. Tanks are fine. Scouts are not.

I also think thats scouts aren't very manuverable. A simple increase in acceleration, especially of the starfe thrusters, would satisfy most of us. Its a quite simple ODF change. Perhaps people can try out new settings for 1.3 scouts. I know I will and when I find a good balance, I'll make a new topic.

Smoothing was taken too far and scouts suffer because of it. Balance is the way. I'm sure a little change can make things more fun yet still keep the idea of the game: no constant-hover.

[Acer]

I believe balance issues were not yet sorted in 1.3. The mobility of certain ships needs to be balance. For example: turrets are WAY too slow. Tanks are fine. Scouts are not.

Turrets and scouts arent the only ones. Try using the jet pack, it takes a few good seconds to respond

[Aegeis]

The jetpack actually animates now so that's why it takes a second to do it.

[Avatar]

Balance issues were avoided when it became apparent that nobody could agree on what balanced things...  It should probably have it's own board, actually, as many of the changes made in 1.3 made for serious balance issues.

STARTING Turrets are very slow.  I realize the changelog is huge and that many features have been buried in with the technical issues, so it's easy to miss.

ONLY the Turrets present when the game starts move slowly, to prevent Turret Rushing at the onset of a match.  Turrets created later on will be normal, and there are options aplenty in the MP setup screen for Turret skill, Service Truck skill, Starting Force, etc..  Explore them!

-Av-

[deadscion]

Balance has to be something good for MPI as well as Strat. Too much tinkering with the balance has a direct effect on the AIP's so any though of balance has to be tested in both and dealt with in both.

Either that or use a seperate set of ODF's just for strat and balance those for strat which will leave the MPI system unchanged.

Wouldn't be hard to do. A 1.3 balanced strat Mod just for strat ODF's.

[Speedy]

Thats correct. Stil, there are other balance issues.

Code Select Expand


- Strategy02, MPI DLLs modified so that AI skill levels are dropped a
notch for the starting vehicles. Thus, the starting turrets in strat
should be skill 2 by default, all other units 3. [NM]

- Nerfed movement of starting turrets. They move slower (half-speed),
take longer to deply & undeploy. This only applies to the (optional)
freebie turrets gotten at the start of a Strat/MPI game; doesn't
affect anything built at recy. [NM]

- Isdf turret gives 10 scrap when killed, same as scion turret. (Was
20, just wanted it to be consistent based on cost, etc). [NM]

- Dropped default AI skill of turrets to 2 for all human turrets,
starting or not. Note: older mappack .infs had this at 3; the new infs
don't set that ivar, but let the default in code handle it. I don't
want to hear a single bug report from you-know-whom about turrets
being too powerful, when he forgot to check this value in the pregame
settings!  [NM]

[Patriarch]

I can understand about the frustration of losing hovering.

It's a shame that another fun little thing to do had to be taken out due to how it broke the strategic element.  What I've found that many things that feel like they give the game (meaning, the Battlezone genre) a lot of playroom are actually strategy breakers.

Again, it's a shame.  But, if it wasn't intended to be there, then, so be it.

At times when I play a game and I realize I'm not doing well, I feel like doing something silly.  And this would be a time when I would expect to see someone pulling a hovering maneuver.  Or someone else hops out and pulls out their sniper rifle.  Or they do something else strange like just hop out of their craft and hop toward you, firing away.

In BZ2, if you aren't doing well, then you just aren't.  Period.  The little 'play escapes' just aren't there.  Or at least, their effectiveness is DRASTICALLY lowered in BZ2.

I'm eager to try out the new aspects of 1.3 with MPI, but my game machine took a dump and I don't know how long it will be before it's up and running again.

[GJC]

BZ2 is the one and only game with both strategy AND first person action in nearly perfect balance. I guess one part of the community comes from pure strategy games in which you have no FPA part and another part comes from pure action games. The problem seems to be that due to the 1.2 ship physics the players with action background dominated the strategy players big time. Which in the end lead to an exodus of the strat players into modding and beta´ing 1.3.

Like most other vets I dont like what theyve done to the ship physics, but Im sure nothing we can do will help it. The coolest thing would be a shell switch or a 1.2 physics mod but thats apparently out of question. Im pretty sure there will be a big split in this small community. I know how you all fell about it, but since this discussion is more than 2 years old, Ive come to JUST DONT CARE.

[Commando]

A shell option or a separate exe for the other version of 1.3 would help, but that would just create a split too.  It would be nearly impossible to do the shell option since the physics are handled by the exe and not by svars or ivars.  A separate exe would be the only possible sollution but that won't happen since flying was considered a bug and the programmers aren't going to make a separate version of 1.3 just to reintroduce a bug.

[Avatar]

You know, it never really bothered me either.  I mean, it was just one less player on the ground doing good for the team.  As a turret killing move it wasn't any worse than Scion flaring...

The point is it's gone and not coming back, so beating it to death is a waste of time.

Wardog (FeebleEffort now) is right, there are other balance issues that need addressing.  The AI is more capable, defenses are better, and if games drag out unecessarily then Offense will need tweaking.  I'm sure there are going to be plenty of issues to talk about.

We need some large games. FFA matches.  DM-a-thons.  LAN-tastic matches.  And then we need people to come back here and describe the good and bad things that happened while playing.

For everyone who complained that the beta was a closed circle of elitist snobs (or any other BS) this should be their opportunity to join in.  The boring skeleton changes are done, now's the time to shape the flesh...  (no, that's not an ad for Fleshstorm Lizard...)  

-Av-

[TimeVirus]

I wonder if the manufacturers of baseballs realized that the stitching would allow such "cheats" as sliders, sinkers and curve balls.

And then realizing this "error" they attempted to fix this "bug" by making the ball smoother and trajectory more predictable. I'm sure the fans would not object.

[appel]

I'm sorry, but what they have done to the ships is just stupid. I can't believe anyone in the development beta didn't say something about this, this is just ridicilous. This would be the #1 thing I would have complained BIG TIME about.

I do NOT care if this will not, cannot be changed. It has to be changed. It's as simple as that. If this stays like this in the 1.3 final we're going to see a lot of people losing interest in this game.

I'd rather see no final 1.3 than see one that has this unchanged.


I don't think you "oh...he's hovering the hoot out of my base!!" whiners don't realize is that the majority of the people who play this game play it because it's FUN! You can't sit back and look at the game and say "Ahh...that's a bug, let's remove it!" after more than 4 years! It's in VET nature to be free in the scout, to be agile, to fly and hover.


This is like GOD would come to earth and say, "Oh...I originally didn't want humans to be able to stand up straight and speak, it's a bug, I'm going to remove it!"


Nathan, Ken: bad decision.