why r u deleting post???

[Der Vampyr Engel]

That is not what I am saying Phaser, I said , this is a community and if the developers wish for the community to stay together or carry on buying their product's they have to listen to some of the communites concern's BUT the community should realise, it is not THEIR Product, They didn't produce it, it is out , it have been released it is under Pandemic's copyright and , it isn't exactly a best seller.

The community didn't have the idea of getting in and out of vehicles, they didn't have the idea of bases, or making a 1st person shooter vehicle R.T.S so to come out so to  start claiming that is the communites and not the  developers game to me that is complete rude and arrogant, especially since they really don't have to provide a patch or give a damn about any community as a result of this game, PLENTY OF games, games that where the thing to get when they where released have suffered this fate.

Also you bought a copy of the game, you DIDN'T BUY THE GAME the code and the product is still Pandemic's and of course Ken's and Nathan's, I mean, just because you bought a bar of soap, dosn't mean you bought the copyright to the soap and how the soap is made, the patent, the ingrediant's e.t.c so how can the actual soap be your's you bought a copy of the orginal soap, that is your's so those who made the soap must listen to your opinions to a point because you are a customer of them because you bought a copy of the orginal soap design or a copy of the orginal car design, but the idea of the car isn't your's, the design and the orginal finished prototype isn't your's unless you go and either buy the company or buy the orginal prototype and even then, even if you buy the orginal prototype and the company, unless the inventor or inventors sold the copyright and invention rights to the company , the idea, still isn't yours.

If the developer needs input on their idea's going back to games, then, legally legally they can put a beta out and if they wish, not put it out for reasons known to themselves whether the community likes it or not, of course, doing that would be commercial suicide because the chances are if they release a game similiar, the  community they orginally wanted to attract will remember what they did, so if they want to sell similiar games, they wouldn't do that but legally they can because it is their intellectual property, not the communities, yes they could put out a beta, get people to fool around with it , give the impression that the community can help and in the end withdraw it and leave you with 1.2 but that would be commercial suicide for them because the community would say something about it to other gamer's.

It would possibly get back to Gaming magazines and that wouldn't be a good thing for them , especially as they are in the process of developing  Star Wars Battlefront so they are not going to do that but let me tell you this, there is currently a petition to make Sierra to make Starsiege 2 and Sierra haven't taken a blind bit of notice, yes those people bought Starsiege, Earthsiege 2, Earthsiege Tribes and Tribes 2, keeping your customers happy only goes so far and some of the statemants on here could be really put to the test if Ken and Nathan decide to put them to the test.

After all, the BZ2 community is a very small comunity, NEVER FORGET THAT. Look I don't agree with everything they do, personally I think that given the right marketing, especially now where 1st Person Shooters seem to be taking BZ' s lead with vehicles or getting into and out of vehicle's, case in point, Unreal Tournament 4, Breed .Halo , Chrome , X-Tension  just to name a few I think that gamers will want to find out and purchase the orginal games this idea came from and I think that lot's of players will come on here soon wanting copies because they heard of BZ2 and wish to play and that there should be a BZ3,  GSH dosen't argee, he believes that the beancouters won't allow it because redeveloping the  BZ2 engine will not justify the sales return because they didn't get the sales last time, we already have had a fairly flamy row about this subject and I think we will both have to agree to disagree on that score.

But even I have the sense to realise that this game is HIS GAME not MY game and all I did was buy a copy of HIS GAME or should I say Pandemic's game and that you will find very very few programmers supporting their games long after their sell by date, look at the copyright details on Batltlezone or any other game, or on records or CD's , it is the artist's product, not yours, you bought a copy of their product.

So I am afraid the comment that it's his game he can do what he likes with it is very very true

[Der Vampyr Engel]

WELL THE FACT YOU COME OUT WITH SUCH A STUPID COMMENT THAT KEN AND NATHAN MADE THE GAME FOR YOU AND NOT THEM I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT EITHER PHOENIX.

Let me tell you something Phoenix, on this you don't know what the f**k you are talking about OK I am wrong? why don't you ask all the rappers who used other bands backing tracks without the bands permission what happened to them or better still ask Ken and Nathan, or any laywer or any musician what copyright means, and you will see that I am right

[deadscion]

Wording people to death will not change any facts here.

Not much point in writing a program for the public without public acceptance.

Unless somebody else besides the public is going to use it, then who ever it was really made for needs to accept it.

If it was made for just GSH and a few friends then why go to this much trouble? and create a "public" Beta board just to work out the details?

You guys know better and arguing like this just for the sake of arguement is NOT helping.

Further debating like this belongs in the Off Topic board which is where most of this Topic already belongs.

Move this thing, please.

[Der Vampyr Engel]

Sorry dead scion BUT YOU ARE WRONG TOO, the fact of the matter is they can do WHATEVER they like with BZ2 it is their intellectual property and you can scream, shout all day long about the public demand and any other such crap, if GSH wish to write a program for just a few friends and him HE CAN and if He wishes to create a public  beta board and test the patch out on others then with draw it HE CAN even if it is pointless to do so, so saying that it's is the communities, it is the communites only if the developers say it is

END OF STORY AND DISCUSSION ON THAT, DON'T BELIEVE ME AS ANY LAWYER.

[deadscion]

Like I said before this topic has become totally unrelated to the real issues being dealt with here.

Will somebody please move this topic to the off topic board?

[NukeDaddy]

DVE is right.  Especially since we aren't paying for 1.3.

[deadscion]

If public approval is not necessary and DVE is right then this "public" beta is not public at all.

This "public" beta board is a waste of time and should not have been started in the first place to ask for help in finishing it from the "public".

[Der Vampyr Engel]

Damn straight NukeDaddy

[Der Vampyr Engel]

Listen , dead scion, yes, legally as I said they can do it but they won't do it because GSH and Nathan care about the BZ2 community and the game and they do want sime input from the community, they don't just wish to publish the patch like that, they wish for constructive critisim but not out and out flames and if they keep getting them then they are within their legal rights to pull 1.3 and 1.2 if they so wish.

Most game developers wish for input from their perpective customers you will find most companies do some form of testing so that they can please their customer's and put out products that can sell.

This, though is a labour of love on behalf of the developers because BZ2 isn't selling, but the developers don't wish to simply leave the community to fend for itself like some other developers and they do wish for input, I know I am trying to develop a game myself BUT at the end of the day IT IS THEIR PRODUCT and they can withdraw it at ANY TIME.

So, you really should piss GSH and Nathan off more than is neccsary , otherwise they might just withdraw 1.3  altoghether

[NukeDaddy]

"Public" in this case doesn't mean "municiple."  It means as opposed to the "private" 1.3 beta board that has been there all along.  It means as opposed to the "private" beta testing that has been going on all this time.  The game is not public property.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

DVE ur not making sense...


ill work with your e.g.. its maybe their soup but are they mading it for? are they using it daily? is it just for them? or is it to make money and for the public
if the public dont like the soup the public wont buy it... now what they want here its like a market research! ever heard one of those?
open beta public is market reasarch for a game
they want out opnions, we are allowed to complain if they take something away from us
although its theirs
we have the right as a human being! in almost *every* country

now tell me just this... 2 liens can be enough

who is the game made for?
why are they doing it public beta?

[Slaor]

I'm still at a loss as to what it is you think you are missing out on in 1.3 BETA. Its designed to be configurable to WHAT YOU WANT FFS.

There are 3 main bitches as far as I can see. Stock hovers feel "sluggish" to some, MP lag symptoms have changed and infinite flying bug is fixed.

The first one just blows me away. Are you seriously telling me that all you "real" players don't know that physics can be tweaked through ODF??

Want less sluggish scouts? Make a bloody recycler that builds them. Even the most hopeless noob should be at least able to learn to tweak a friggin scout ODF. The modding community has provided countless reources to help you. And if you are too clueless to do that (but still consider yourself a "real" player of course) then download the ODFs that the 1.3 beta guys have kindly developed to try and pacify your pathetic mewling.

Want sentries that are useful? Want AI Defenses that are stupid? Ditto.

Want lag free games? Play on a LAN. BZ2 aint exactly UT2004 - there's a lot more going on, a lot more CPU load and a lot less cheating. Deal with it or get faster broadband. It is better for a lot of people, MUCH more stable and highly configurable - not just cos u can play multiple games from the shell. If this is the biggy for you then tweak the settings the best you can then adapt. Or of course, wait till the NEXT BETA or keep your 1.2

Want hovering? Play 1.2 because in 1.3 the bug is GONE. If this is the biggy for you and you can't live without it then fine. Play 1.2. It's not being discontinued, YOU HAVEN'T LOST ANYTHING. You might also want to examine your motivations for playing BZ2 if infinite ass up scout hovering is the main buzz you get from it.

The whole point of the way 1.3 is designed is to GIVE YOU THE CHOICE of how you want to play. It's intended to please the widest audience possible among the very different sections of BZ2 players that exist in this so-called community by letting them tweak the game to a playstyle that suits them.

The knee jerk fuk you mentality of some people in reaction to this patch openly displays their ignorance, stupidity and selfishness, an impression that only deepens as time goes by. Yet they still expect the developers to hang on every syllable they spout, as evidenced by eg: Deadscions demented ranting in this thread. It'd almost be laughable if it wasn't so damaging. Get a grip fool and pull your head in. You do nobody any favours especially yourself.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

if they just publish it when they done without any input like what u saying every1 (which is totaly wrong cause every company that wants to upgrade a CURRENT *something* ask the public whats they want in it.... therefor making it their choice... whats good for them... whats good for the public good for the company for 1 and almsot only reason.. to make money...
if the public dont like it no1 will buy it and they wont make money

now, what will be the point of publishing a patch that no1 or just very very few ppl will like?
no1 will play it and what they were trying to accomplish will fail...

[Der Vampyr Engel]

Listen Phoenix, HOW OLD ARE YOU HUH?   , It is THEIR GAME AND NOT YOUR GAME, ALL THIS CRAP ABOUT RIGHTS WHAT THE F***K HAS RIGHTS GOT TO DO WITH IT? IT'S THEIR IDEA!!!!!WHAT!!! YOU WANT THEM TO MAKE A GAME FOR YOU AND YOU OWN THE RIGHTS TO IT TO? YOU DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THE IDEA'S THAT WENT INTO THE GAME, YOU DIDN'T PROGRAMME IT, YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING BUT PLAY IT AND YOU WANT THEM TO DEVELOP IT AND TAKE YOUR BADMOUTHING OF IT AS WELL??? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU? DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT ANYONE MAKING ANYTHING WOULD HAVE IT WHERE ANYONE COULD SAY , SAY A CAR COMPANY, THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU BOUGHT THE CAR MODEL YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DESIGN, THE PROTOTYPE, THE VOLUME SALES ANY ANYTHING ELSE? NO ONE WOULD MAKE A DAMN THING, THE WEST WOULD GO BACK INTO THE STONE AGE OVER NIGHT, GET OVER THIS RIGHTS CRAP AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT , THIS THE REAL WORLD HERE OF MAKING MONEY.

OH YEAH AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS
1) THEY MADE THE GAME TO MAKE MONEY ALSO BECAUSE THEY LIKE TO MAKE GAMES
2) THEY ARE DOING IT IN PUBLIC BETA BECAUSE THEY FEEL THE GAME WASN'T FINISHED RIGHT, THEY WANT TO BE AS GOOD AS IT CAN BE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT THEIR PRODUCT

GOT THAT?!!!!

[Slaor]

PS: I agree that a company must take into consideration what most people want when producing a product. In 1.3 they have attempted to do just that.

Just cos u don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't sensible, and just cos u don't like it doesn't mean it's not good. If 1.3 were crap then there wouldn't be this much argument.

And you are NOT going to get a soap company to change it's work practises by spraypainting abuse on their factory wall.