why r u deleting post???

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

yo avatr..

im sorry that it has to be here.. since the hardcore players arent active here nor care about this forums
but when 1.3 was posted and if we want to change something to what we - the real hardcore players - who play this game for 4 , 5 years and play it a hell lot more then you want.... we want some stuff to... dont mean to be rude or anything but we are keeping the game...
and we cant even say what we want? i dont think the future look bright for bz2 if u gonna ignore us like that... im already thinking of moding 1.3 to waht we, the vets, the real players wants

now about 20 posts here that are all whinnig...
as i said above... it was chosen to be here, where we the vets dont go...
but its the future of our bz2... so we come here...
dont like it? start checking the clans and hardcore palyers forums.. those that keep the game alive..

[appel]

Everything around this 1.3 patch has sucked, from my perspective. I download it, install and play it in a very good faith. I post my comments and concerns, and then I'm just told to STFU, "Get over it!" and my posts are either locked, deleted or censored! And I'm not the only one treated this way.
What gives you the darn right to do that?

If you want the opinions of the most hardcore BZ2 players then you have to ACCEPT their opinions. What we think IS important. We are the reason BZ2 has lived so long, and that's the TRUTH! Not some developers that don't even play this game.

If you release a product that nobody likes, then nobody is going to buy/play that product and I hate to see that happen with the 1.3. But it's as simple as that.

BZ2 isn't about one programmer, finishing his work, completing his once in a lifetime project, finally being able to close this chapter of his life by programming all the bugs out. "Make it right!" He can do that for himself, don't force these fundamental changes upon us all and divide the community while doing that.


Me and everybody want 1.3 to work, to be a success and want to use it. But do not ignore us.

[AlbinoPenguin]

Although I might not of put it like PF did, I have to agree with him on this. Most of the hardcore gamers(Like me, who play atleast 5hours+ of online bz2 per day) don't visit these forums. I started off on these forums, and started to think certain ppl here where the be all and end all of bz2. Then I got accepted into some clans, and I found a whole other part of this bz2 community, one alot bigger, and more active then this section.

Try visiting
www.gel-guild.net
www.loc-clan.com
www.bac-clan.com
www.fly-clan.com
www.vnb-clan.com
plus a few other clans that are popping up around the place.

Make a post, and say hi, then ask how many play bz2 actively. You might be suprised at the size of this community that you don't notice, simply because they are not on this board.

Sadly, it is this, very dedicated section of the community that rarely gets hard, or listened to by the Modding(patching) community. Why? Because our perspectives of bz2 are alot different, therefore we dismiss alot of your views as newbish, and you dismiss alot of our views as lame. Not a very productive work enviroment...

We see people here posting stuff about how good scion mualers are, whereas, if you played with us, it will not work, just because we have played so often over the last 3/5 years, that it is more then easily countered. Almost all of us know the Tech tree inside out, and can tell you both the default and custom price of units.

On the otherside of the coin, we have been known to not concern ourselves with less eperienced/skilled players opinions, even though they should be catered for since not all of us are HC gamers.

For example, I know I can beat stock 1.2 mpi without building a single scav. All I need is pods to take down the computers base, whereas some players might find it ok.

So, my plea is to both sides.
1) The people here. PLEASE take the time to listen to any gripes we might come here with. Don't be too quick to dismiss them as "Not being able to adapt", there might be alot of valid points that could make this game almost unplayable for the HC bz2 community.

2) to the HC players. PLEASE don't come here just "Whinning". Give you opinions in a civilised and CONSTRUCTIVE way. Simply complaining won't get our opinions listened too. Take the time too explain WHY you think this could ruin the bz2 gaming experience.

Sorry this post was too long. I just don't want to see this patch "die", or this community divide even more then it is because too parts of this community can't communicate with each other.

[Red Devil]

There's no denying you vet players are extraordinary players.  I've been playing for for years now and I can't hold a candle to you guys.  The time and effort you have spent on it, your skills and detailed understanding of the tactics and strategy necessary for winning, the mods you make are humbling and impressive.

Would you like it it someone came along and told you you stank up the place after all your years of hard work just because of one thing you didn't like?  Would you invite them out the door?  I would.  And some have and rightly so.

First, it show a complete lack of respect to the people who have sacrificed *so much* to get to this point, especially by Nathan.

Second, it shows a complete lack of civility witnessed by their bad manners, which actually precipitates the first point.  If people do nothing else in their lives, they should at least develop and show good manners.

We all love Battlezone II.  No denying it.  It is unique. We are that "merry band of brothers", the proud and loyal few.  Because we all love it, we are passionate about it and, because of that, our passions sometimes make us say things which are counterproductive.  But make no mistake about it,  we all do love it and we all want it to be the very best it can be.

Now, having said that, we all know - and have known for years - that *default* Scout hovering is gone for good because it was discovered that it was caused by a math error in the code for that unit - a bug if you will, which was corrected.

So what can be done for the players that like default Scout hovering and like 1.3?  How can they have both?

It being so early in the beta release, many probably have not taken the time to read the changelog and have instead taken the opportunity to vent their pent-up emotions at the first opportunity and have more or less just shot from the hip, not realizing what Nathan, Ken, and the other programmmers at Pandemic, Greenheart, Commando, and many others have *given* them.

That apparently being the case, those people need to take some time to go through the changelog and see all the new flexibilty introduced.

Ability to add multiple new races - 26!.
Ability to add multiple new Recyclers
Ability to add multiple new AI
etc.
etc.

With a new Recycler, you would be able to make a ship which not only hovers, but flys as well.

With the ability to use new and different Recyclers, you can make new Service Trucks and Constructors which can make new Factories and Armories and a new *anything*.

With a new race, you will be able to make races where *everybody* flys if you want.

With a new AI, you will be able to make an AI where they *all* fly if you want.

Go crazy.  

So guys, don't let one thing which bothers you blind you to all the new possibilities out there now thanks to all the hard work from the 1.3 team, especially Nathan, Ken, the rest of the guys at Pandemic, and GreenHeart and Commando.

And if I have mispoke or said something in error, please correct me.

[Red Devil]

LOL, speaking of which see GreenHeart's sticky at the top of this board.  

See?  Much ado about nothing, all's well that ends well and all that.

[GSH]

Flying is a physics bug, fixed in code, and I don't think ODF changes can restore it.

You're welcome to tweak ODFs all day. Once you leave out the bile directed at me, ODF tweaks have a better chance of being accepted. Seriously, some people seem dedicated to the idea of trying to piss me off *and* make me listen to them. Pick one.

-- GSH

[Avatar]

I like some of what I just read, it's a step in the right direction.  Maybe the chaos is almost over?  

I don't like the hints I'm getting about "real" players again.  That attitude sucks.  We dealt with the same thing early in the beta and it sucked bigtime.  No one player, no one clan, no one game type (DM/Strat/etc.) is ALL of BZ2.  We need to respect all views because I doubt even the clans listed in the URL list above see the game exactly the same way, regardless of how many hours they play.  

We're all different, we all have things we like/hate, we all deserve civility, respect, and the chance to state our views.  Politely.

-Av-

[spAce]

Flying is simply a cheat/bug. This was already seen in bz1.
Ship physics are now (already) perfect. THEY ARE REALISTIC AND LESS ASSHOLIhoot !

U can still fly in bz2, you just cant make endless escape runs high to the sky and u cant hover rec.

1.3 just needs more skills and u cant be asshole anymore.

If u prefer to be opposite, for sure it dosent make things better.
Be polite.

[TimeVirus]

I don't like the hints I'm getting about "real" players again.  That attitude sucks.

Now Avatar, that exact prevailing attitude stating players who spend 4-5 hours daily for 4 years competing with The Best Players in the World *are not* entitled to consider themselves "real players" is exactly why all the skilled players left beta. It's also why almost none of them frequent these boards.

[SuperSponge]

You know im getting sick of.
You guys still ignore the fact that people loved the game as it was but the few things they hated got fixed. But then a few things they loved got ereased.

It's just ignorance just saying it's a physics bug and it shouldn't be there. C'mon it takes you guys this long to produce a patch and people started to like the way it was. Now you guys release this patch and you just ignore the things that has to be changed.

Listen to people who play the game.
The newer guys will surely love this new patch but imho it's just total disrespect of the players who played this game since day one. THEY made this game live, THEY made the game exciting to continue, THEY made this game a challenge for the new guys to live for. If it wasn't for them there wouldn't be any players left cus there wasn't any challenge anymore.

And this so called improvement is improving some things but c'mon if people don't like it they won't play it and you guys spent 2-3 years making a patch and see the community die in 2 months. Thank you very much.

[aougli]

U can still fly in bz2, you just cant make endless escape runs high to the sky and u cant hover rec.

1.3 just needs more skills and u cant be asshole anymore.

Well, you can fly high into the sky to escape, it's just that you come down again a little later.  

And some people still fly inside the ISDF Rec with a pummel scout.  

[Aegeis]

Uh oh aoug.  So then just put a turret at the door.  That would be a nice welcome.

[Avatar]

I don't like the hints I'm getting about "real" players again.  That attitude sucks.

Now Avatar, that exact prevailing attitude stating players who spend 4-5 hours daily for 4 years competing with The Best Players in the World *are not* entitled to consider themselves "real players" is exactly why all the skilled players left beta. It's also why almost none of them frequent these boards.

LOL, you KNOW where this leads...

The 'attitude' part is inherent in them considering ONLY their views as important, exactly the thing they're accusing the "not REAL players" of doing.  They can't see the hypocrisy inherent in that.

Feel how you want about yourself but do unto others as you would have done to you.  When BZ2 first came out the "REAL" DM players left because they felt those scab Strat players didn't understand the "REAL" game of BZ.  The DMers had spent YEARS playing BZ and were the only ones who knew what the game REALLY was.

Now the "REAL" Strat players are pulling the same sh!t (again) without even seeing they're doing it...  

*sigh*  

It's always so clear from MY point of view...  it's the OTHER guy that has the problem.



We need to hear from ALL points of view, weigh the possibilities and needs, and do the best we can for everyone.  I like seeing the Unit variants FINALLY being tested.  It's time to address the Balance issues and everyone is needed for that, regardless of how inflated their egos are...  

-Av-

[spAce]

Man often has chronic neurosis to prevent new things happen in the world.
(it is safe to stick in the old and known)

Well, c ya on the 1.3 field..

[TimeVirus]

Space wasn't that you yesterday, who as my teammate shot my hull to half then team killed my pilot as I was sniping in the enemy base? I found it an interesting welcome to 1.3.  :s