Titans lack range, but ISDF walkers are great!

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

not if a tank covers... espicely now... 1.3 tank - u dont need the 360 turn...
and 1 thug in 1.2 is enough...
spire walking isnt that easy since they mortar from base - which u dont have acsess to.. and sometimes the base have tons of gun towers, trucks, rckt tanks and rats.. maulers sometimes are useless...

[Fishbone]

If there is a request for a morphing Brawler, I am happy to animate the morph animation.

[DarkFox]

A talk covering a walker ties up two enemy players. When put up against two scion units working in unison (even something as basic as two blinking warriors with arc/gauss), the tank doesn't have a chance, and when destroyed, the lynchpin to your whole assault is gone.

I agree, a tank covering a walker can be an effective tactic in 1.3. A walker being covered by an AI rocket tank is even better, but it's certainly not overpowered, and giving the titan long-range weaponry wouldn't the answer even if it were.

Lobbing mortars at spire-walking scions isn't that effective, mainly from the fact that:
a. They can bounce them away with sonic.
b. The usually have most of the map's pools, meaning they build spires faster than you build tanks.
c. They are whizzing around in scouts/warriors killing your tanks or pools while you kill their easily-replaceable spires.
The power of spirewalking is mainly an economic advantage, and once the ball starts rolling, it's very hard to stop. Giving scions a titan with 200m+ range would change that from 'very powerful' to 'absolutely unstoppable late-game win', IMO.

[IceWendigo]

"Walkers can be attacked from the rear with ease"

I agree, I have the piloting skills of a sedated sloth with parkinsons   , and even I have managed to score hit after hit on a walker from behind.

I also agree Its easy to deplete your ammo in a walker, every shot's got to count, and once you realize you have one last shot if an enemy wanders in your helpless, cant run away and after that one last shot you're a sitting duck.

[Red Devil]

I was able to waste a base with just my one Walker and 5 trucks.  SP tanks coming after me and GT's blazing.

But I sure love the sound of the Walker's cannon...

[DarkFox]

Those SP tanks didn't kill your trucks?

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

df got some points... im a 1.2 scion fan... im using all the tactics u said there...
bouncing mortarsr... upgrading 5 pools but still it can take AGES and AGES
and if i build titan its just useless cause it does nothing and maulers just die... AI / human piloted...
the only unit that worth something is scout and warior... and they still cant attack base as well as the isdf tanks

[appel]

You present your case very well darkfox, and I agree with most, if not all, that you wrote.

However, you forget some points:

- Walkers do greater damage per shot, and can take out a tank with 3 blast shots and 1 laser, a scout with 1 blast + 1 laser. Therefor ships approacing the walker are more likely to die before they get behind it. I speak from experience, they always come out of their base one at a time and I always kill them before they do real damage. But of course there is always this one guys that slips through :\ but then again, I have my thugs and if the assault is planned carefully enough I'll have turrets covering me too.

- The service truck dilemma. You will need trucks, for Titan and the Walker. However, the enemy can push in between the trucks and kill them without you being able to stop him. You need thugs covering you. This is true for the Titan and the Walker.

- High priority target. Everyone know that when you see a walker, assault tank, mauler or a titan on the field then it's more than likely it's going to be used to attack your base. So you drop everything what you're doing and try to kill it! The titan doesn't really deserve this kind of attention, it's not as lethal as many think.  Nothing that a few MDM's won't take care of or a scionic sonic-wave push if scion vs scion But yes, it might be good to take control of a terrain, but however, you do have spire walking and spires are cheaper than titans and have longer range!


But I do agree with you darkfox, giving titans 210-220m range arc range is a bit too much. Giving them perhaps 190-195m should be enough..at least I have an option of using the titan then...but it's still not the base basher it would be with the 210-220m range.

I'd rather pay a 100 for a Titan with 210m range.

[Scout]

"- Walkers do greater damage per shot, and can take out a tank with 3 blast shots and 1 laser, a scout with 1 blast + 1 laser. "

still using 1.2 data appel?

2 assualt blasts (1 shot from walker) will annhilate a scout...


the walker was givin these cannons to try and bring its on field effectiveness to par..

when something like the ablity for it to lay prox or m-curtain to make itself a sheild would have been awsome...

theres still a few problems with this 1.3 walker.. the radar/ingadge range..

[appel]

2 assualt blasts (1 shot from walker) will annhilate a scout...

I said, 1 blast + 1 laser for a scout. Both in FE Rev.C and 1.2. 1 double blast cannons take the scout down to deep red, and the laser hit to finish it.

The only difference in 1.3 is that the walker has GUNS also in assault mode. I liked being able to kill a scout within a millisecond, alternating between blast and laser.

[AlbinoPenguin]

Yes, appel, in 1.2, it took one blast hit plus a laser from the walker. However, in 1.2 the Blast on the Walker was "Combat" mode. In 1.3 now, its in "Assault" mode, which means, u hit once with your blast, and the scout is dead. Try it and see. It deals alot more damage.

[appel]

Yes, appel, in 1.2, it took one blast hit plus a laser from the walker. However, in 1.2 the Blast on the Walker was "Combat" mode. In 1.3 now, its in "Assault" mode, which means, u hit once with your blast, and the scout is dead. Try it and see. It deals alot more damage.

In FE the walker has assault cannons too, but it does require you to shoot both the blast and the laser to kill a scout. I'll find out tonight, when I come home from work, if a 1.3 assault mode Walker can kill a scout in 1 blast shot.

[AlbinoPenguin]

IIRC appel, FE Assault version blast was tuned down because it was thought to be too powerful. I'm sure DarkFox can correct me if I am wrong here.

[DarkFox]

First of all, FE reduced the damage from assault blast. In 1.2 or 1.3 an assault blast shot does 900 damage to a scout, so a single shot from a walker will deal 1800 damage, enough to kill a scout in one shot.

On to appel's 3 points, all 3 of which I believe are null for different reasons:

- Walkers do greater damage per shot, and can take out a tank with 3 blast shots and 1 laser, a scout with 1 blast + 1 laser. Therefor ships approacing the walker are more likely to die before they get behind it. I speak from experience, they always come out of their base one at a time and I always kill them before they do real damage.

Scions will *always* modify their warriors with blink in the late game, which subsequently makes it very easy to get behind your walker without being killed.

- The service truck dilemma. You will need trucks, for Titan and the Walker. However, the enemy can push in between the trucks and kill them without you being able to stop him. You need thugs covering you. This is true for the Titan and the Walker.

Oh boy, you chose a bad area to compare the two here. *three* faveourable arguments for the titan follow:
Firstly, the titan has a very useful high vantage point, one of it's biggest advantage over both the assault tank and the walker (the hadean hedoux has high-vantage-point guns, which work in a similar manner). Try it out, with a bit of practice you can fire your arc cannons over the top of your trucks, killing enemy scouts and tanks that try to get in them.

Secondly (it gets technical here), the service truck in BZ2, much like the service pod, will split it's 'service power' between ammo and health, depending on which is lower. The overall effect of this is that ammo and health are both equally important in prolonged serviced attacks, and as such it's convenient to think of your health and ammo as one big 'pool'. By firing your weapons, you're reducing this pool, and thereby actually damaging yourself in the long run. Firing assault blasts does a lot of damage to yourself in the long run, whereas firing arc cannons does much less. In short, the ammo and health become one in service wars, and as such Titans once again come out on top due to their low-ammo-consumption weapon.
(A similar argument can be held for the comparison of comet cruise to hornet rockets...)
Thirdly and finally, the great ammo and higher speed of a titan make it far less reliant on trucks than a walker is. I frequently use them without any trucks and all, harrying back to my team's dower and out again for raids. I do the same with ISDF assault tanks, I'm just hoping someone here can vouch for this tactic's effectiveness...

- High priority target. Everyone know that when you see a walker, assault tank, mauler or a titan on the field then it's more than likely it's going to be used to attack your base. So you drop everything what you're doing and try to kill it! The titan doesn't really deserve this kind of attention, it's not as lethal as many think. Nothing that a few MDM's won't take care of or a scionic sonic-wave push if scion vs scion  But yes, it might be good to take control of a terrain, but however, you do have spire walking and spires are cheaper than titans and have longer range!

So you're saying people put more resources into killing titans than they should have? Surely that's an advantage to the titan-using scion player? The enemy isn't prioritising his targets properly, hence the great opportunity to feint with them.

[appel]

Where would we be without you Darkfox? Probably all using 400m blast on our tanks and a bomber that travels 1000m a second

hehehe, you make good points on this issue, I think we can live with the titan as it is.











but i do believe a extra 5-10m range is cool =)