scion turret price change...

[Sonic]

Interesting, I guess you do learn something every day.  I always thought Chain Assault was 150m or so.  But it IS 120m.  Rather interesting there.  But hey maybe the Scions do deserve a break and have better turret technology for the same cost due to their lack in the defence department.

As for the more health issue, if testing reveals 40scrap gaurdians to be an issue, we can always try reducing the health with other tweaks.

[technoid]

I'd rather bring it back to 45 scrap and then go from there if it really needs any more fudging.  

And, if anyone feels like it, if going back to 45 makes it more weak, then I suggest speeding up Ion II shot velocity just a tad.  That would compensate a little bit for this gun's spreadfire. Of course this would affect all other units with assault gun.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

''lack of defensive capabiltiy?''

Gun spires are a *far* more affective defensive building than the ISDF GT's. The only thing that beats them IMO is Hadean Defenders.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

on 1v1s ya, u can survive from 0 pools since its not big deal cause when u attack pools ur base is not attacked same time..

get on 2v2 minimum while they have blast and try to recover from 0 pools, u cant get tanks - u can barly get a scout with chains

if they go around with chains then ya - you have a chance but if they are dumb enough to get you to 0 pools and not to be on the way to blast tanks...
if the other team is advanced on technolgy then ya, he have a chance to recover

i've recovered from 0 pools many times, but they were hit by bomber and my thugs were in blast tanks... and when i had 0 pools a poor turret wasnt what saved my ass

a turret / gurdien wont save your ass if u have 0 pools
i maybe put it wrong by saying u'll lose from 0 pools
anyways my point is a rat is not what will save you if u have no pools

[DarkFox]

you mean you've never outranged a chain turret with a chaingun sonic? tsk tsk... I myself stick to miniguns because of the appauling range of chain, I always thought rocket tanks with salvo were a better mauler defense anyway.

[IceWendigo]

Now that it's at 40 we could try it this way and and see, maybe it's not as bad as some people think.

About GSpires, I agree GS are effective. But ISDF can raise GT with one pool, Scions can not (maybe that's a factor when some people mention defensive capability?). Even with 2 pools, in some situations (little or no free scrap nearby) the last 35 of the 75 can take a long time to raise (better not loose that second pool cause your back to square one and cant build that GS).


Turrets, if, if everyone agrees the 40 cost is too low, another possibility (out of many) is to keep Guardian's combat effectiveness as is and its 40 scrap cost, but alter how fast it can be deployed compared to the ratler; it's 'build time' could be raised, or the rattler's travelling speed could be increased a tiny little bit (presuming they are of equal speed right now, which I am not sure about).
(in fact, I wanted to compare the speed of both turrets while traveling[undeployed] to see if they're the same, but I forgot to, it can make a difference between being blown away in transit [caugh with pants down syndrome] or being already deployed and kicking when the enemy arrives at the destination)

[Sonic]

Nope, I usually always used a Shadower or was in a tank by the time I saw Chain Turrets.  Like I said you learn something every day.

[ReCoN]

Jack, you are a tool.

But I was typing previously about speedy.  

[DarkFox]

Now's not the time for random ideas Icewendigo. It's also not a time to 'try' a new idea which even when made Ken admitted was possibly a mistake. It's my opinion that there was *no* need whatsoever to put them down in price, and the way we should be tackling this issue is by having them what they've *always* been, 45, and only further discussing things if there's a problem.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Who's jack.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

i guess its you

i totaly agree with DF

and as for isdf need 1 pool for GT

well they need relay
better not lose the con while getting that relay up eh?

scions needs more scrap.. scions can get an UPG much safer after the 1st GS

the 1st task for scions (at least in 1.2) was to get the spire up.. that was probably one of the hardest part in 4v4 while ur base is getting alot of presure... after that - no more attacks till they have tanks...

have u seen some1 quit attacking ISDF base just because he have a gun tower?
u can even strafe kill a gt
and rainbow a gt (Although u can hover [1.2]GS need TONS of air skills though)

GS is much more eficent then a GT at defending...
to get a gt u need power + relay + gt
what happends if ur power is getting attacked while u only have relay? or as i said before.. the con building the relay getting attacked?

thats the worries isdf have when trying to get a gun tower up while scions warry about their pools and constructor

no need to bring the GS vs GT conversion here

back to topic...
gurdiens are better and as darkfox said even ken said it might be a mistake
i think another thing that differs scions from isdf is the cost... (like gt vs gs)
ion is more efficent in early stages then mini and gauss is more efficent then chain
while the GS is more efficent then GT

both GS and gurdians should cost more then the ISDF rats and gts