@ GSH & KEN

[Zero Angel]

and I'm gonna have to stamp it and take it to da bank.

Hill bump damage isnt so bad. I know i complained about it early on, but then realized that it was way more reduced in public beta compared to the later private betas.

I still agree with much of PFs wind-reasoning.  

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

The same concerns have been voiced in the closed beta hemp, no point in trying any more m8. What will be will be

Am i in the closed beta? NO! so how can i know what your saying....

And anyhow, it should be voiced anyway because its the correct.

...RAAA ...

[Fried]

Did i not just tell you what had been said, "DOH"

BTW last time i played i didnt have ground bump though i had something far nastier  :s

[BZZERKER]

Am i in the closed beta? NO!

I'm not a very religious man but , I have to thank God for that!

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

oy you! i am sure i would make a great addition to the Private beta....been told it is a bit empty now days though.

[Speedy]

I quit bz2 for a while except when my clan wants to play for fun. I'm gonna come back over the summer when I'm not bogged down with 20 million things to do (comes with the resposibility and leadership positions).

I'm just sad to see you guys are still fighting over here. Hahaha its pathetic. 1.3 will not have hover in it. Too bad. Last time I checked GSH was trying to add 1.2 elements (manuverability) into the physics but its kinda hard when everything changed too. It will not hover. Get over it. Its not gonna happen. Stop fighting: its pointless.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Partial hovering should be allowed. Even i think that...someone who has always hated hovering. It is because i can accept other people have a right to enjoy the game as well.

[Aegeis]

It is because i can accept other people have a right to enjoy the game as well.

CO-SIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    

[Sonic]

Partial hovering should be allowed. Even i think that...someone who has always hated hovering. It is because i can accept other people have a right to enjoy the game as well.

By All means, that would include Star Rex and numerious other individouls who like Edited MPI games.  Lets make it an option to have the editor available in MPI!  I vote for that, this way we make the game enjoyable for everyone.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

yeah!, nobody minds if you are editing in an MPI because your not facing another human being...your facing a CPU.

I mean, in FE on a miasma map speedy had this really fun edited game where we started off with a Cerberi Rec. It was so much fun running around shouting '' I AM GOD ''...and feeling like one too.

people tinkering around with a game is partially what makes a game fun.

Now...if i had been playing a *human* player it would of been unacceptable (unless they concented....lol...not likly).

Another example of edited games being good was when someone used to host FE DM games...with everyone on the same team vs like 6 drone carriors....god it was like sceans out of MAtrix Revolutions...single people fighting massive swarms of small robotic fighters!


Great fun....

I think Editing should be extremly similar to what it was (game.cheat bzeditor then pressing Control E in single player for example) and i think that only Multiplayer STRAT games should have Anti-Editing software (orwhatever) on them.

[Fried]

I found any edited game fine as long as it was stated in the server message that the game was edited- that way you know what to expect.

@ Hemp there are currently 50 plus people with access to the closed beta , check the member groups.
though it is quite but thats more to do with other reasons rather than actual tester numbers.

[GJC]

I mean, in FE on a miasma map speedy had this really fun edited game where we started off with a Cerberi Rec. It was so much fun running around shouting '' I AM GOD ''...and feeling like one too.

But ... you are not GOD! Youre an all mortal peon who has to play the game as the GODs (GSH and Ken) and their priests (the modders worshipping them) meant it to be played!

(I guess thats the modders god-mode.)

[Avatar]

You obviously STILL haven't read the Changelog, and/or added up how many changes killed bugs vs how many "modding priests" additions were made.  Virtually all of the changes addressed AVs, exploits, or optimization of code.  Most of the important work was moving memory and sound code to DX9, optimizing the rendering engine, and removing unhandled exceptions.

Sure, Ken added a few things that make modding better, but he and Nathan turned down tons of off-the-wall requests by Modders that would have taken time away from the more important things.  This attitude that 1.3 is an MPI/Modder's paradise is ignorant beyond words.

***

The change in physics wasn't deliberately coded.  Nathan's said time and time again that code that is exactly the same between 1.2 and 1.3 is producing different handling due to other changes.  I don't expect non-coders to understand how changing one line in 200K lines of code can produce unexpected changes elsewhere, but I'm sure people like OM understand...

***

The lack of MP support during the closed beta came from the MP playing members not understanding the term "Beta", or that testing is work and not always fun, and that the time for balance would come.  In fact, the time for balance SHOULD have been coming up, once the Community at large was onboard and playing MP games for feedback.  The MP players were largely looking ONLY at balance at first as their strengths were PLAYING MP, not digging into the engine.  This is understandable, and maybe they shouldn't have been brought onboard until the basic bug hunt was over.

MP playing during the closed beta faded away due to this attitude, and lack of patience.  'nuff said.

***

If this were a new game coming to market there would have been a timeline of sorts given to the testers.  They'd have been told specifically what to look at/for during each phase.  The bug hunters would have gone in first, then the MP players, and finally the Modders if there was any time left.  (often there isn't, which is why many games don't get modding tools until AFTER they go gold.)

Since this was a 'FREE' donation of Ken and Nathan's time it wasn't run in that way.  Nathan's given us a couple of hints at his timeline but not put anything out formally.  I believe this has led, in part, to some of the uncertainty felt by the MP players.  They were afraid that balance would never come.

Now it never will, as they've pretty much all turned their backs on 1.3.

THAT is the real shame.

-Av-

[GJC]

Avatar, I have read the changelog, I do appreciate most of the changes, I like 1.3, no, I LOVE it and Id deal the physics change for the rest of the changes anytime although I like 1.2 physics much better than 1.3. Also I AM a coder. Furthermore I pretty much guess that quite some of the MP testers will contradict to be lacking of patience.

My problem is that 1.3 wont be a success. And the reasons are
- most vets (these are the ones who host most MP games!) wont deal the physics change for any number of cool bug fixes, a fact already well known when the whole 1.3 thing started
- 1.3 took waaaay too long time to finish because somewhere on its way the patch makers lost the link to reality, although many people very soon warned intensly what would happen

Of course Ive no idea what amount of time exactly was invested in which issue. The mere fact that uncalled fixes like "squashing the hover bug" and removing the editor from the runtime - things that certainly do involve a big amount of coding and testing let alone balancing - have played a major role during the development shows everyone with more than 1 brain cell where to look for the culprits.

I would trade a 1.3 finished due 2nd half or end of 2002 that will be accepted by vet players anyday for this still unfinished 1.3 anytime.

Of course the good thing will never happen. 1.3 will remain a MPI mod, hopefully supported by a few map makers, and I bet If we join here in April 2005 nothing will have changed and the same discussions will be fought, only by again 50% fewer people.

[DarkFox]

MP playing during the closed beta faded away due to this attitude, and lack of patience. 'nuff said.

Actually, MP playing faded away because the testers, who were trying to help make 1.3 an enjoyable game in full knowledge of the fact that it was a beta and needed work, were told bluntly 'I know your opinion, I just don't care'.
What exactly is the point in continuing at that stage?
Well, I for one continued anyway. I went on for what seems like decades trying to do all I could, which was basically put forth suggestions to improve the detrimental effect the new physics had on the game, and put forth suggestions about exploits to be removed. The exploits I mentioned were all fixed in record time, but the main problem, the physics that ruined the experience - wasn't going to change, shut up about it.

Eventually I got the hint, and decided to abandon 1.3 as the nicer-coded, feature-laden, but ultimately unplayable pile of crap that it both is and *always will be*, even when it's not in beta any more.