How do [u]U[/u] feel about 1.3?

[Sponge]

lol

funny people

[GJC]

I disagree.  Having to run a seperate editor is a small price to pay for removing the biggest MP cheat around...

MP cheating has never been a big issue, and it´s easy to avoid edited MP games.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

I was not once in an MP strat game that was edited.

And editing the MPI's was fun It was cool to do things like have a cerberi rec in FE

[Avatar]

I was not once in an MP strat game that was edited.

And editing the MPI's was fun It was cool to do things like have a cerberi rec in FE

MP cheating has never been a big issue, and it´s easy to avoid edited MP games.

How do you know?  I mean, how do you know you've never been in an edited MP game, or that it's not a big issue.

The only time you'd know is if the host was stupid enough to blatantly flaunt his editing in front of you.  A subtle cheater would use it just enough to tip the scales in their favor...

No, I stand by my assertion that this, the most insidious of the few MP cheats possible in BZ2, is better off gone from MP.  I agree that the Editor should be the full BZ2 engine without the MP part rather than the cripple it is now, but that can be easily done once 1.3 is finished.  All Nathan has to do is give us the game without the editor for MP play, and the game without MP for SP/IA/editing and we'd be set.

-Av-

[TimeVirus]

How do you know?  I mean, how do you know you've never been in an edited MP game, or that it's not a big issue.

We know because we play BZ2 online often, very often. For one thing you cannot MP edit a game without first starting it alone. This is almost unheard of in strat games, since synch join is the prefered method of beginning the game. Edited games also tend to gamestate heavily.

It simply is *not* an issue except for those who debate more than they play.

The AV chat attack is the single most malicious bug quashed by the 1.3 patch. It's how the patch first got its start. Unfortunately the attack was leaked via an overly explicit changelog, cursing multiplayers with it ever since patch was announced (2 and 1/2 years now). This bug has probably contributed to BZ2s overall multiplayer decline more than any other, where a sore loser can terminate any game he likes. Not MP editing. Patch 1.21 announced 8/10/01

[GJC]

How do you know?  I mean, how do you know you've never been in an edited MP game, or that it's not a big issue.

I played a lot and Ive been in a few edited games. Edited games are always already running when you join, which very rarely happens with legal games.

The only time you'd know is if the host was stupid enough to blatantly flaunt his editing in front of you.  A subtle cheater would use it just enough to tip the scales in their favor...

LOL the few edited games I was in the cheaters had edited themselves a whole city of upgraded extractors somewhere off map and still they lost vs some mediocre players on the legal team. I mean, come on, its so extremely easy to recognize an edited game, and you can decide either to make some fun of the cheater of just leave the game. And if you really feel that offended by an edited game you just have to stick to games that havent started yet when you join. Really no need for invasive surgical actions to the game.

[Avatar]

Again, sounds like those doing it were doing so blatantly.  Obviously you 'vets' recognized the signs right off.     (try to be more subtle, TV, really...  lol)  

The real issue was whether or not such things could be done more subtly.  Just because you haven't seen anyone with a more advanced form of the cheat doesn't mean it couldn't be forthcoming.  Someone with true programming skills may be, right now, working on a way of enabling the Editor at will AFTER a game starts.

I think this is what Nathan feared, not the idiots dropping Walkers on you two minutes into the game.  The current 'surgical fix' is the only sure way to do so.  There's no reason the current editor can't be made more whole, it just wasn't high on the list lately.  

Nobody has yet to give me a good reason for the editor to be part of the MP enabled engine... unless there's some reason only a 'vet' would know.

-Av-

[GJC]

*sigh* no point to argue with someone who has no freaking idea what he is talking about ... again ... this is what gives this board such a bad name outside

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

How about Editor enabeled for everything except Human Strats....

That way everyone can still enjoy fiddeling around against the computer (and who cares if we fiddle around against the computer ey?) or make new and wild DM maps.

[Avatar]

*sigh* no point to argue with someone who has no freaking idea what he is talking about ... again ... this is what gives this board such a bad name outside

Ouch.

The bad name comes from making it a personal issue rather than actually answering the real questions...  

Since you don't seem to know what those are let me list them:

What reason is there to have the Editor available in any form in the MP capable version of the game?

What harm does removing the editor from the MP capable version of the engine do?

Why would anyone who's a true "MP Vet" object to removing something that is now (for n00bz at least) and might one day be abused?  (assuming they're not so short-sighted that they don't realize that pretty much anything in the game is a target for 'hackers')

The complaint is that the current chopped editor sucks.  Nobody has an issue with that and assuming Ken and Nathan actually do return to work on things I'm sure a new version will fix that.

I find it odd that 'Vets' would ever argue FOR a return of the editor to the main engine.  It's too big of a risk for the future...

-Av-

[Avatar]

How about Editor enabeled for everything except Human Strats....

That way everyone can still enjoy fiddeling around against the computer (and who cares if we fiddle around against the computer ey?) or make new and wild DM maps.

That's how it was.  Creative idiots always seem to find a way around restrictions.  The only sure way of making sure nobody figures out further editor exploits in MP is to remove that portion of the code completely.  I'm sure it was much easier to remove the Editor from the engine than come up with an MP Client without it.  The current Editor hack is a temporary fix for modders until Nathan has time to work on it.

*sigh*

-Av-

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

was in an mpi game.. the host went to other team alrgiht - i dont give a hoot.. 1v1 and the comp will help him


we go on.. bla bla... then he started poping out mtr bikes and rocket tanks near my base.. i killed them - new ones.. he had like 50 waves before it got me down... pure laming


then he tells me i should be proud i survived against all odds

[Commando]

Was that in 1.2 or in 1.3?  That bug should be fixed in 1.3.   If it happened in 1.3, the host found a new exploit.

[Zero Angel]

Lol, i've played as 'Team Computer' once or twice for fun. Really, if anyone joins on the computer team, you'll know because it will say "Team Computer joined session", all you have to do is /kick Team_Computer and there you go. Besides, that 'cheat' has nothing to do with the editor, its a console command.

And heres Avatar, trying to act like he knows something, when he's just as ignorant as any forum hanger who doesnt actually play the game.

"try to be a little more subtle, really TV". What kind of a cheap shot is that?

[MowerMan]

ZA that is rude and wrong.  Avatar knows how to play well, and write programs.  He is approaching the "opening" to cheating conceptually.  If it is a possibility, than someone will figure out how to do it.

By my reasoning, Avatar has shown himself to be far more knowledgable of BZ/BZ2 than most of the self-proclaimed "experts".