How do [u]U[/u] feel about 1.3?

[Zero Angel]

Editing in Strat games is not a problem; simply dont join a game where the host has already started alone.

Editing in MPI is not a problem, how can the host cheat? by giving his (and your) team extra scrap pools?

Editing in DM is not a problem, its obvious if a player has 10 AI walkers.

Now, lets say that hypothetically, someone does write a program to edit strat games in session. What makes you think that it wont resync like crazy? Editing pretty much pauses the game and stops multiworld activity as far as i'm aware, which is probably why those who are trying to join a game thats currently been edited will sit in gamestate until the editor is closed. If you think that the telltale resyncs of a pre-edited game are bad, just imagine how bad it will be when a person opens up an editor in session...

MM. Your reasoning is flawed, I dare you to tell me where i'm wrong.

The current Editor hack is a temporary fix for modders until Nathan has time to work on it.

Thats all you had to say.

[Fishbone]

Hmm. ZA and others:

It doesnt matter what you *think* is possible online.
it doesnt matter what Avatar *thinks* is possible online.

Neither of you have the training nor the possiblity to look at the source of bz2 and figure it out.

Nathan on the other hand, has both. And he decided it is best to split game and editor. Now there are draw backs. But before you cannot prove me (and you can't) that Nathan is wrong, YOU are wrong.

[Zero Angel]

gg

[Avatar]

And heres Avatar, trying to act like he knows something, when he's just as ignorant as any forum hanger who doesnt actually play the game.

"try to be a little more subtle, really TV". What kind of a cheap shot is that?

Well, Mower defended me honorably but here's my 2Cents.

TV put in a not-so-subtle dig against me in his message:

It simply is *not* an issue except for those who debate more than they play.

You see, as much as I respect his (and FE/WD, and DF, and many more) knowledge and views on Strat, TV is among those who's "we're REAL players" attitude grates on my nerves.  We're all 'real' players and the conceit of the Strat players is amazing.  Just because you can't get a Gamespy list of those modding, or playing SP, or on LAN only games, doesn't make them 'unreal' players.  He's also dead wrong on it *not* being an issue.  More later in bold.

ZA, you (and TV, and WD/FE, and GJC, etc.) assume that because I don't show up in YOUR games I'm not a 'real' player.  It all goes back to why I put 'Vets' in quotes.  To me saying 'Vets' is saying 'stuck up arrogant short-sighted snobs'.  

That doesn't mean I disrespect them, though, far from it.

I bow to their knowledge of Strat and never contradict them for things I don't understand.  The Editor I DO understand and believe me, having that code in the same engine as the MP code is dangerous for no good reason.  Your 'just don't join' remark shows your ignorance.  How many n00bs were scared away from BZ2 because they didn't know that and jumped into an edited game?  

It also shows your lack of imagination.  They don't have to DROP things in the game to use it, how about they pop into it locall just to watch every thing you're doing, like a 'super comm bunker'?  Will that enhance your Strat game any?  Think outside the box, like hackers do, before you speak.

Let's get back to the 'real player'crap.  In fact I probably spend more time in BZ2 than any two of you 'real' Strat players combined as it's the only game I mess with and I have no other addictions.  I just don't play Strat.   Ice and I used to play MPI a lot before his head exploded (long story) but lately all I do is MOD.  I've got four Races almost done, by myself, a feat even FE can't top.  Am I not a 'real' player?  Can't I discuss things from a point of view you 'Vets' obviously aren't considering?  Isn't that what this forum is for?

I don't enjoy Strat with humans mostly because of this 'Vet' attitude.   I've had very few fun games with 'Vets'.  I miss the COW days and loved messing around in DMs with the guys.  I'm sad that so few of my group took to BZ2 as I really thought the CTF and Race modes would be a blast with people who's egos weren't defined by how many hours they've played the same other people in one version of an almost dead game...

'nuff said.

-Av-

[AcneVulgaris]

To me saying 'Vets' is saying 'stuck up arrogant short-sighted snobs'.

I am deeply offended by that statement.  I've been an asshole since WAY before I started playing battlezone.

[Avatar]

My apologies.  Anyone who can jerk Mower's chain is OK in my book...  

-Av-

[BLUE DEVIL]

quote:
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To me saying 'Vets' is saying 'stuck up arrogant short-sighted snobs'.

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That was uncalled for.  That statement is incorrect.  We (vets) are not short sighted snobs.  Some of us are actually kind and friendly.  I know some ppl who aren't but we are the ones who are gonna keep playing BZ2 till the end.  When every 1 leaves    the vets are the ones who will still be playing.  I am definitely NOT a newb hater.  I respect all of the BZ2 players.  So, no, not all vets are "stuck up arrogant short-sighted snobs".

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Not all 'vets'are stuck up noobs at all. Infact, most of the vets i know are gentlemen....(notice....use of the word 'most')

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

there are asses and snobs everywhere...
in a small community like ours i guess u can pick them off easily...

[sabrebattletank]

To me saying 'Vets' is saying 'stuck up arrogant short-sighted snobs'.

I am deeply offended by that statement.  I've been an asshole since WAY before I started playing battlezone.

lol

[Avatar]

I generally avoid generalizations...  

You'd have to have been there when the 'private' 1.3 beta hit the point where the 'real' players started dissing the 'not real' players over MP points.  It was a bad scene.  To see that attitude still around, or in fact coming back to the surface upsets me.  I don't disrespect anybody's contribution to this work, as there's always value in another point of view.  Nobody can think of everything, that's why there are betas...

It doesn't matter if I play MP every night or not, as a veteran gamer and part-time coder I recognize the possibility of abuse further down the road, perhaps when Ken and Nathan are completely gone.  At that point there wouldn't be a single person from this thread that would come on and say "Sorry guys, we were too short-sighted to realize this would happen.  We actually fought to have the editor put back in..."

I'm dumfounded that any MP player would ever argue FOR the editor code being in the same engine as the MP code.  Many games specifically split the editor from MP just to avoid the inevitable abuse that springs up when the real coders start playing with the engine.  Not that that's likely to happen but why risk it?

I think back to Diablo, a game I thoroughly enjoyed but you know what?  The first time I was fireballed in town was the last time I played MP.  That's all it took to turn me off.  

-Av-

[Slaor]

Yeah can relate to that - flying rave bombers in BZ1 was enough for me. Looks like UT 2004 is a dead end too, seen enough blatant cheating already. Damn shame.

[deadscion]

The only thing wrong with the editor is the DLL's will not work. A testing area with functioning DLL's with no network code what so ever is needed. The biggest amount of map "tweaking" goes on in final stages of map development. Art changes here and there, Shift F9 mode points getting added or moved. Just some kind of testing envirnment, otherwise the editor is seriously inconvenient and just plain not worthwhile to use for anying but maybe conversions from 1.2 to 1.3

[GJC]

"Sorry guys, we were too short-sighted to realize this would happen.  We actually fought to have the editor put back in..."

I recommend you to have your balls amputated ASAP, you know, they might grow a cancer some day ...

[Avatar]

I'm sure the appropriate comeback would be "Maybe you could tell me who did yours?  They did such a good job I'd like to use the same surgeon."



Again you go personal rather than rationally discuss the issue.  

*sigh*

Kids...


-Av-