(Suggestion) AI skill for the Service Trucks and Healers

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

I was talking to dark fox the other day about the AI skills for the St's and Healers. I suggested they might all have super-AI...but a weaker beam...because having the effort into making the good AI wasted seemed...well...a waste. Also, alot of players liked how the ISDF service trucks were. The liked the fact you had to 'order' them to heal buildings.

and then i thought that this would not be so great, because the ISDF assults would be harder to pull off (and they are rather balenced right now).

It then occoured to me, how about having actuall differences between the races trucks?

The scions hardly ever use Healers in their assaults, the Archers are in too hard to reach places, the Spire walk just 'makes another spire', The maulers are far to quick on their feet to do anything and the only unit that does that kind of assault, the Sonic or Arc Titan...normally has fewer healers than the ISDF has STs in its assaults.

ISDf on the other hand have just about every assult except Mortar bike/bomber combi's packed full of up to 5 or more service trucks (...well..people who know what they are doing).

So, i was thinking there could be ' AI skil levels' for the Service trucks

0 = doesnt heal anything unless told to.
1 = Heals combat units (1.2 style) automatically but needs orders for eveything else
2 = Heals Comat units and Buildings of its friendly team automatically, but needs orders for 'blue' units.
3 = heals anything friendly automatically. (the best 1.3 can offer)

The ISDF service trucks would be 1.2 style...normal armour..and pretty much identical to what they are now.

The Scion Healers would be super-intelligent(3), have better (H?) armour, cost 60....but would have a slightly 'weaker' healer beam.

And Hadean Drones would have moderate armour (L instead of N?) and a fairly powerful beam, and moderate intelligence (2).

This would give more flexabilty for modders, enable them to have level 3 rep drones in Computer controlled bases (just tweak the odfs of the rec and the trucks from that rec) and give some racial diversity. Thus making it easier to have tougher bases. And would also encourage a scion commander to leave a Healer in the base for a change (i have almost never seen one) with it fuffiling a slightly different role than that of the ISDF Service trucks.

If this was implimented it would not change how ISDF players use their drones, and would not make bases indestuctable (a complaint mentioned when having Intelligent Service trucks in MP games) and would not have he same consequences of other solutions (e.g. my first idea: all repdrones that are smarter having weaker beams, making the ISDF assults not nearly as affective).

Basically:

Make the AI units have a different 'AI skill' that is changed by the ODF of the service trucks/healers/repair drones.

Balence the units out so that some were strong and dumb, and some were smart and weak.

Is it doable? Is it a good idea?

[DarkFox]

As you know I don't reall like the idea of it. Keeping trucks 1.2 style sounds nice.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

ok, you might not like the idea, but i seriously think it would be good to have it done...but all the units given their current '1.2' intelligence.

At least that way you can have freedom for future modders (and FE where we might really need this).

Is not that one of the objectives of 1.3? making it easier to modify things?

[BZ FeebleEffort]

Be careful what you ask for, The whole ST issue nearly ground 1.3 to a complete halt(And I'm proud of that fact I don't mind saying) As a eventual result the "1.2 style" trucks are default.

The implications of STs/Healers goes far deeper than most casual players realize...so tweaking them "whilly nilly" can and did have servere adverse effects on the "Gameplay" of BZ 2.

There is plenty of "variety" with the ST "variants" you already have...more than I personally feel necessary.

1.3 *IF* It survives wil;l give you plenty of modability to create your tweaked STs etc, but don't screw the stock stuff..that was a war just to reach this stage...Most would rather not relive it.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

perhaps...but firstly...having a war and then reverting back to 1.2 in the first place seems...wasteful

and did anyone else suggest having races with different types of rep drones? I personally think 'intelligent' rep drones for ISDF is really bad...but it sounds just the ticket for the scions.

[MowerMan]

The way the service trucks were originally concieved was well reasoned.  It up to the comander to keep his base alive,  so he should be cognizant of the status of his buildings.  Piloted vehicles should all get auto-repaired, that way you can remotly repair units just by sending them to the same nav, or reinforce a unit by gicing it a "follow" command.  The commander makes the important decisions, not the AI.  I think they should auto-repair gun towers if in range too (but not power supplies or lungs)

[BZ FeebleEffort]

The way Mower describes it is just how it was designed  and just how it is now w/ default trucks.

As it was originally intended to be.

The auto-heal "stuff"(and I'm being polite) just dilutes the strategy of the commader role. We went all through that in the closed beta...move along..nothing to see here....

[MowerMan]

They don't always auto-heal combat units now though.  They do sometimes, but they are often "extra-dumb" other times.

[aougli]

Stock service trucks are fine.  If you want a super-efficient variety, thats an available option too.  By further changing things, the possibilty of messing up is high.  I recommend letting things alone.

[DarkFox]

BTW hemp I noticed you putting priority ratings on your reports here (major, minor, etc), I think this is an *excellent* idea for this public beta.

Having said that, I certainly wouldn't consider this a major issue. If anything, priorities should be sorted between 'major' (game-crippling bugs), 'minor' (small problems that can be worked around, like rec panel lockups), and 'suggestions' (opinionated discussion on new features or ideas).
This way, were I a developer with little time on his hands, I could work on the major issues, read and consider the minor issues, and completely ignore 'fluff' suggestions like this one.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

ok, I accept that the current way the ISDF trucks works (e.g. what mowerman said) is bang on correct...

however, with scion they seem to serve a different role...and as a result their 'stupidity' seems to not make them used very often at all by the scions. The only time i 'ever' see them is if a bomber just got through, or a titan-assault is being initiatied (not common).

i think that even if the 'in-game' settings are not affected, this should be implimented to give Freedom to Modders....it could come in handy later on....really handy.

Making BZII easier to modify is one of the primary objectives of 1.3 if i recall.

...move along..nothing to see here....

*scalding look in the direction of feeble*

I accept that making the trucks super intelligent is a really bad idea for ISDF (not so sure about scions)....

but ok, ill let that one go....HOWEVER...Freedom of Modders is now what this topic is about. Having the inteligence linked to the ODF's of the Service trucks in a simple 0 - 3 scale i think would be a superbe idea.

[Weevil]

As far as I know, the current skill level settings for service trucks, though not being the way you suggested, do have quite some effect on the units ehaviour. (Correct me if I'm wrong...)

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Yes, but having it in the ODF means you can have race specific behaviour, and then balence it off with stronger armour, higher scrap cost, Weaker beam and what-not.

It would also mean you can do things such as place a few 'super intelligent' STs in an AI base, and it would appear as if the AI commander has high intelligence, whilst the human opponent has just normal STs

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

hmmm scions does not need helaers that much... they get to a stage where they have 4 upgs and just rebuild...
as for units healing.. well at least in 1.2 u dont use AI so u just blink to base and get pods which is alot faster

+ u get a dower in middle / near the enemy base and just send ai units there + sometimes people do use healers near that bay for archers and themselfs - moving the trucks between party member for ubber fast healing in middle map

they are fine as they are i think

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

well, i think that the scion healers should be more intelligent but with weaker beams, that way they would get used more (as in you know...used..)

but ANYWAY, thats the side topic. The topic is making the changes i suggested so that modders have freedom and flexabilty in not only making new races and mods, but also fiddeling with things to make MPI maps with more flexabilty.