Is there a 1.3 Beta Release 2 being worked on??

[Fishbone]

In fact, I believe that it was arguments HE instigated with his negative comments and attitude that ultimately led to the departure of several members of the community that I believe were held in high esteem.

dead wrong.
Deadscion didnt leave the community, he left this message board.
Lizard left the community because of those socalled vets that bashed on 1.3 like little whiny kids that got their favorite toy taken away.
Other people left for similar reasons like Liz.
So far only Deadscion left this board because of GSH and wiz. And I would say it was a very reasonable and commendable move. There was just too much bad blood in the broadband wires...
I do think we lost some valuable input by not having him on the bz2cp board but he posts on other boards I frequent, so its not too much of a deal for me.

besides, thanks to 1.3 beta we have a few more claners on the board. I think thats definitly a positive change being introduced in final instance by GSH. Think about it In the end we are here because we love this game and want it to be playable in years to come.

[DarkFox]

He pointed me out because I left the 1.3 beta team and had an argument with GSH about the patch.
Turns out GSH has changed things to what I suggested since then, or so I'm told by the current active testers. Maybe I left for nothing, or maybe it took me and others leaving to make him realise something had to give.
Shame really.

(BTW I'm back, hi again you guys. Just had a wonderful vacation to Northern Ireland and York, can't believe how beautiful York is, I feel bad about living where I do now. Just finished going through the posts I missed... Wonderful to see that nothing ever changes around here.)

[Red Devil]

Just to be clear, I wasn't pointing you out, DF.  Wasn't even thinking of you when I posted that, really.

Stone, as for GSH not listening to suggestions: Dead wrong.

So long as suggestions/ideas were presented logically, impersonnally, and did not cost inordinate amounts of time/energy, he was always open to them.  Doesn't mean they would always be incorporated, but he was open to them.  If you don't believe me, just ask Commando and GreenHeart.  There was just so much of him to go around though.

And sure, we can have debates on gameplay, but first you need a solid A/V-free code base before you can address gameplay.

Probably doesn't really matter though because we'll all most likely be playing SW: BF by the end of the year.  

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Well it is good to hear you were not typing about dark fox Red Devil, but do not fall into the niave opinion that everyone that disagrees with GSH is one of the said ignorent/ungrateful/etc etc people. I actually hate flying, and i think GSH was treating a lil bit too harshly, but that doesnt mean I think for a second that some of his behaviour was acceptable.

ANYWAY , lets get back to testing this public beta.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

why o why didnt GSH and ken stick to their orignal idea about 1.3?

[Spacecomber]

I think some people have made the mistake of thinking that since GSH is not open to their demanding something of him that he is not open to their input.  Of course, if people continue to think they have the perogative to make demands, I'm sure that they will find that even their suggestions fall upon deaf ears.

[tarquin1048]

I feel really bad for starting this thread cause of the comments being written. Sorry if its caused offense!?

I would like to see 1.3 carried on (whoever might choose to keep it going!??) There are some very clever people who do mods, progamming etc and I admire all of you. Ive played lots of the mods and maps and the game still grips me more than any other game on sale today and there are not many games today that will still have the appeal of BZII OR BZ1 some 5-6 years down the line!!

[MowerMan]

I'm sure Nathan was talking about me, because I pointed out that Nathan was hired when the game was mostly complete, and he was put on netcode (an arduous task within itself).  Most of the "design" of BZ2 happened about a year before Nathan was even hired at Pandemic.

That is no lie!

[Ken Miller]

I'm sure Nathan was talking about me, because I pointed out that Nathan was hired when the game was mostly complete, and he was put on netcode (an arduous task within itself). Most of the "design" of BZ2 happened about a year before Nathan was even hired at Pandemic.

That is no lie!

Nathan may not have been on the team at the very beginning, but he was hired onto the project only a few months after Pandemic was founded.  He was as involved as any other programmer on the game, as networking is not something you just slap onto the side of a game--it affects almost everything, in very significant ways.  He and Brad had to convert the entire game from a peer-to-peer networking model to a lockstep model, a change with extraordinarily widespread impact.  He became quite familiar with the game during that process.  Designers did a lot of stuff on their own, and I was fairly involved as the game logic programmer (and pseudo-lead).  That does not, however, mean Nathan was off in his own little world, ignorant of all the design details.

Onto the design front...

The general outline of the game was developed fairly early, as with any game; BZ2 was originally intended as a logical extension of BZ1.  The actual details of that design came together over the duration of the project, so Nathan was aware of the aspects that affected him.  It's not like the designers come up with a final design document and that's the end of it.  The "design" was somewhat emergent, as people came up with cool things along the way.

"Flying" was not a designed-in feature, but a bug in the hover physics for vehicles with extremely high thrust.  Thrust drops off with altitude, down to about 50% or so; vehicles with a thrust larger than twice gravity can remain airborne indefinitely.  This exploit seriously affected game balance, making the Scout and Mortar Bike units much more powerful than they were meant to be.  I simply corrected the problem, which seems to irritate a number of people.  Deal with it, because neither of us are relenting.  

The same goes for Turret Tank / Rocket Tank vertical aim; there was a bug in the AI control that prevented them from aiming as high as they were supposed to.  I fixed that, and those units started working correctly for the first time.  Wil designed the Rocket Tank as an air-defense unit (among other things).  The Bomber, of course, needed a bit of adjustment after that, but it seemed to be working okay the last time I checked (which was a while back).

Now, I admit that some of my experimentation early on in the 1.3 development process was... ill-advised.  However, I think the current version retains much of 1.2's essential nature while correcting some significant flaws.  Is it so hard to show at least a little appreciation?

[DarkFox]

Wow, hi Ken. Great to see you posting here.

[Tempest Storm]

Yes, it appears Ken is indeed alive.

[Juvat]

Hi Ken

Is it so hard to show at least a little appreciation?

You guys have my total appreciation and admiration.

Hang in there and keep it going

Cheers

[Commando]

Hi Ken.  

I personally would like to thank both you and Nathan for your work on the 1.21/1.3 patch.  I personally think it is a major improvement over 1.2, even with its bugs.  With a few more fixes, such as the "FIXME: Treaded Unit Physics Have Gone Bzerc" and a few minor bugs, it will be nearly perfect.

[BZZERKER]

Yes, it appears Ken is indeed alive.

Guess I should recall the search party .

Great to see they let you run free every once in a while at Pandi Ken.

[BZ FeebleEffort]

It is NOT the real Ken..we want proof..say something...programmy...