Is there a 1.3 Beta Release 2 being worked on??

[MowerMan]

I NEVER said flying was programmed in, just iit was there from the beginning (even in the demo).  Never implied it, inferred it, or in any way directly said that.

I know when Nathan was hired, and it was after I was BETA testing the game.  I do remember the design process BZ2 went through.  I do remember the weekly questionaires that I fiathfully filled out, as a member of the Pandemic "hit team".  I do remember many conversatiations with George Collins well before Pandemic was even a company (along with playing BZ1 with him, Jens Andersen too).

I sick to death of being called a liar and spit on by Nathan, only because I felt that flying should be an option for those that want to play with it.  There still is NOTHING in physics that would indivcate that the craft would not behave in such a manner.

[OvermindDL1]

Ken?  Here?  Ok, I practically never stammer, I should not do so now, its just so... unexpected for him to post.  Welcome around.  Do not suppose you all at Pandi could use some code written for experimentation or something.  Writing all my things is busy enough but I would love to do something that is actually used for once.   No strings attached, just for fun, programming is life.

[Red Devil]

Ken, thank you very much for setting the record straight.  OMG, that felt good to see your post...

Geez, OM, LOL, you sure are into it, aren't you?  What a hacker you are...  

Gosh, we sure are serious and passionate when it come to BZ, aren't we?  And that begs the question: Why?

Because it is the *best* and most realisitic experience available, bar none.

Notice that I did not say gaming experience.  I think BZ is far more than a mere game.  Games don't make you sweat or give you goosebumps or instill fear.  BZ does.  It is intense.  I think that is why we are so passionate about BZ: Because it stirs up the passions in us.

Having said that, that means I am also very passionate about BZ.  Anybody who wants to criticize the programmers will have to deal with me first because, dammit, I won't stand for it.  I am really a nice guy and get along with most everybody, but I for *damn* sure won't stand around letting people belittle their efforts at trying to improve BZ.

These guys have *worked* their tails off to help us and we owe them *every* bit of gratitude we can muster. So even if they don't come back and continue working on BZ (and it *is* work), I'll still be here slapping them back if anyone wants to find fault with them.

If any of you still have complaints about 1.3, let's see *you* wade through 500,000 lines of incredibly complicated code and get it *exactly* right every time for *every* Beta.  No takers?  Hmmmm... didn't think so....

[EternalDamned]

I've been playing the game, and reading the forums for 2 years now, and never felt the need to post until now. GSH and Ken, thank you for the work you did on 1.3! I love the changes that have been made and I personally think most players are more like myself than the idiots spouting BS whining about everything they dont get their way. Sad truth is, every game has its losers who want to use exploits to make themselves out to be great players when they most likely never beat the SP campaign without the cheats on   The only changes I'd like to see is being able to use some of the advanced options available through mpi in ia. insane with smart trucks rocks on mpi and I think it would let people do so much more with ia missions than can currently be done. Other than that the only other change I would like would be smarter more aggressive service trucks for the enemy. I hate it when I send a dozen units into the enemy base and their 3 or 4 service trucks sit there as the power gens are destroyed then they futiley attempt to service the unpowered guntowers  

  Now heres a request for the whole community of map makers/moders.I like huge maps, ones that take 4+ hours to even stand a chance of completing. So how about some new maps, nearly Site_B in size but with multiple enemy bases massive defense laden bases that have to be destroyed etc.   Or maybe even a series of maps set up on a build base and forces, destroy enemy base then have undeployable recycler which must be escorted to an exit spot as massive waves of enemy re-inforcements start to arrive type scenario. Now I know this has been done before on a single FE map, but I'd like to see it taken further without FE since it's not 1.3 compatible yet, and have it continue on with another map set to start where one ended. Big request I know hehe and I have tried to do some mapping myself, but while I can handle the terrain and base design etc, I can admit I am totally lost when it comes to doing dll's and all the other things needed to do advanced missions  :s

[MowerMan]

Smarter more aggressive service trucks???   Sheeeesh!

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

lol, with those kind of service trucks you wil *never* get into my base.

Anyway, its fantastic to see you post Ken, and more posting would be great. But flying and other such detials are not really what i focus on.

What i focus on is GSH's attitude to other people. In your post you quite clearly show the abilty to present an argument without making people righteously incandesent with rage. GSH has treated people like dirt, and literally started a 'spitting' compaine on people he did not like. It was unproffessional and quite frankly imature.
Of course i am greatful for his work, of course i am looking foward to 1.3 and what it can bring to the game, of course when 1.3 is finally released there will be far far more praise than critism, but until GSH makes up for his behaviour in some shape or form, i can only respect his work, not him as an indervidual.

[Stone]

Your last sentence sums up my feelings in a nutshell.  

[Avatar]

That was a decidedly un-Kenlike post in that it's more words than I've every seen come from him in one setting.    

I wonder, is this a one-shot appearance or does this mean I can start bugging you again?    

-Av-

[Fishbone]

Jwk and Stone, we know how you feel. now grow up and learn that people will not change just because you want to. deal with the situation.
Right now, I see 2 options for you, either you leave this board or stop whining.
I am getting really annoyed by this weird: 'oh he cannot behave but I am too lazy to prove that he cannot behave'. Your input on 1.3 is valued. But we are not here to discuss manners, ok?

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

message deleted by Fishbone

[Stone]

message deleted by Fishbone, dont test my patience.

[Ken Miller]

I guess this while thing is more of a "cameo appearance" than anything, mostly to defend Nathan against the unnecessarily harsh criticism.  Yes, he can come across as brusque online, but I think that's understandable after putting months of his free time into something and gotten continual grief for it.  In fact, he's probably put in more work than I have (especially recently).

Writing off Nathan as a "hired hand" with no knowledge of the game design is  a low blow.  During 1.3, at least, he was as knowledgeable if not more so about the general intent of the design.  Yes, there were things that people got used to, but they led to degenerate (in the mathematical sense) strategies.  Now, I do understand concerns about balance and game length (and I share them).  I'd certainly like to compress the BZ2 gaming experience while retaining all the enjoyment, but that's somewhat beyond the scope of this project.  

(After things calm down a bit, I ought to work on things again, but I have other projects I need to work on as well.  I sort of lost interest after a while...)

[Stone]

I am grateful for GSH's work and the amount of time he put into it. He's transformed BZII from a buggy game with a promising concept into something exponentially better, and I will forever support him and his continuing efforts in giving this community something to hope for.

That's the last thing I'm saying on this matter.

[Angstromicus]

All I can say is: thanks GSH, ken, & everyone so far for your work on 1.3, and, I hope bz2edit is made to support dlls, and controltest doens't have a working function (it's supposed to make your craft move and behave like an AI), right? It doesn't work in bz2edit, I haven't tested it in bzone 1.2 though.

[WhiteDove]

Dear Ken and Nathan, I would like to say that no matter what you do/did. I have always been behind you, hec I even sent a personal message to Nathan saying how much I appreciated his work as I hoped that it would help him make better about this community.

I really do appreciate you two working on this long and (at least for you) unccessary project and I will do anything to help make sure that it is seen through. For those of you who do have a problem with other people, please understand that we can not live up to each others desires and the way other people think we should live. Ken and Nathan have put a LOT of time and effort into this and although I understand that many of you may have personal problems with one of the two, there is NO use in holding a grudge no matter how right you think you are.

If I have a problem with someone, I would usually not tell them, but that's just me. Please I for one do not want to see any of these great people detered from finishing one of the best games in the world. So I beg of you to please at least try and put personal grudges behind you, for life is too short. Everyone should be happy and making war when there is enough already does not help.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post, I really appreciate it.

-James