(Medium Suggestion) A use for Site CAMM

[Huscar]

I thought SITE cam was simply putting on your hud view what the radar sees, so it should make VIR units normal and units with RED invisible... so lock on on VIR would be an idea, but the missiles shouldn't follow it. And of course no ammo cost and 1 scrap worth as a power-up. Still need inprovements...

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Again huscar, what you have typed is sadly not coherent..

Back to the SITE cam topic. Fox came out with a good idea just then. The abilty to use SITE cam to get visual locks on objects though terrain, and then fire the shadowers 'around' the hill.

If sitecam allowed you to paint targets with whom you have a visual lock (e.g. turrets or a Red field equpied unit or jammed unit behind a hill) *and* allowed for shadower use (e.g. firing a shadower around a hill to hit a turret), then i would say that is a useful weapon, esp in 1.3 where jammers are done properly.

So now we have two plans.

Plan one

Site cam should allow you to target/paint/usebomber anything you can 'see' whilst it is activated (regardless of radar cloaking). It should allow you to see in some shape or form, VIR cloaked units, and use missile locks on them. In this scenario it would require the use of ammo to make it balenced.

Plan two

Site cam should allow you to target/paint/use bomber anything you can 'see' whilst it is activated (regardless of radar cloaking). It should allow you to use missile locks on targets that are behind terrain and are visable. In this scenario it would require a 0 ammo usage to make it its pros and cons balenced.

Plan two sounds like something that is easier to balence and make functional (which is good for the Dev's the Modders and the Vets...which is what we want right?). It would mean that against ISDF Site cam doesnt have much use, but against scions and their jammers, it becomes very useful.

As a side issue, i always thought that SITE cam should increase your radar signature (since its an 'active' not 'passive' sensor system)...but thats just a nice touch thats unimportant and not really nessesary.

[Huscar]

It's just sad to see ppl who don't know what an addition is.

[NoK0mm3nt]

Huscar, WHAT are you rambling about?

@PF. Yes, I can see that happening, but remember site cam will use ammo, so its not like he could ran around with VIR on all day. Plus it would be harder to do the flicking on/off like we do with VIR, since you have to wait for the lock. Maybe having it higher in the tech tree help in this case.

I like JWK's idea of increased radar sig aswell, even if it is only a minor issue. Seems like a nice touch.

[PhoeniX-FlamE]

err noky, what? lol

ur saying a site cam could lock on vir, when do you use vir mostly? when you run... so - when someone start running flick your site cam and go kill him, ive seen some people dodge shads so damn fine without VIR that once they get site cam all the rest with the VIRs will be useless

hence - taking off the most importent thing about VIR


in my opnion - locking on VIRed ships is not an option - ammo cost or not

I like plan two, but I think you should add ammo cost and like i said before and ur small lines in the end hemp - improve the radar

[Huscar]

I was propossing side features, since nothing of this will ever reach Nathan or Ken...

However I wouldn't make it cost 0 ammo (plan 2 is best), instead balance the cost in such a way that with a scout reload time you don't get MORE ammo while using SITE camm, in exchange a longer and more frequent radar view.

BTW, will a turret in a tunnel beneath you appear on radar? Otherwise, that might be a use for it (but I don't see that happening)

[Spawn]

Plan one

Site cam should allow you to target/paint/usebomber anything you can 'see' whilst it is activated (regardless of radar cloaking). It should allow you to see in some shape or form, VIR cloaked units, and use missile locks on them. In this scenario it would require the use of ammo to make it balenced.

Plan two

Site cam should allow you to target/paint/use bomber anything you can 'see' whilst it is activated (regardless of radar cloaking). It should allow you to use missile locks on targets that are behind terrain and are visable. In this scenario it would require a 0 ammo usage to make it its pros and cons balenced.

there is one big problem with all of this.  any form of these makes site camm more powerful by not making itself better, but by making other things weaker.  biggest use, especially in 1.3, is the bombing jammed objects.  completely counters point of jammer, if no jammer then not useful.  chain when compared to mini, is best decribed as an upgrade, useful in almost any situation better than mini (not with zst turrets though).  while many other weapons rely on depowering of other things, those are known to be balanced.  its just useless unless you want to deal with balance, and balance wont be worked with at all.  Maybe if it made more of the map visiable (with buildings) then it would be more useful, and it doesnt require balancing stuff.

[FoxBlade]

think of it this way. if its high in the tech tree, then the ISDF's counter to jammers is to *tech* and produce a utility that will replace a vehicle's special slot, and this will allow the ISDF player to effectively use his or her bomber. The scion team can then have a response to this tactic, for example an upgrade to the jammer which makes it block even SITE cam scans.

However, im strongly for the SITE cam being given a few extra functions, such as shadower locks through terrain, since it would be a great counter strategy.

[NoK0mm3nt]

That would be try PF, if it wasn't made up higher in the Tech tree. What if you needed training to get it? Then you would have to choose between getting site cam first or blast first. Thats a decent compromise I believe. Don't 4get, whlie they have sitecam, they can't have vir themselves, so they are easier targets. Maybe have the lockon time for shads vs VIR ships half the speed. That way, one vs one, shads/VIR will beat shads/Cam

[APCs r evil]

biggest use, especially in 1.3, is the bombing jammed objects.  completely counters point of jammer.

This is slightly off-topic and worthy of being considered spam but anyway, with my modified Popper(Stats at bottom, stock Popper is crap,which will be included in a ZIP full of weapon fixes I'm working on, bah anyway.)Poppers can be a pretty good Bomber defense which gives Scions a contingency Bomber defense for when the ISDF gets Site CAMM.

Code Select Expand

shotDelay = 1.5

(Pre-Pop)
ammoCost = 50//20.0
lifeSpan = 1e30
shotSpeed = 40.0//20.0

damageValue(N) = 70 // none
damageValue(L) = 60 // light
damageValue(H) = 50 // heavy

damageValue(S) = 60 // standard
damageValue(D) = 50 // deflection
damageValue(A) = 70 // absorbtion


(Post-Pop)
ammoCost = 30
lifeSpan = 2.3 // 230m
shotSpeed = 100.0//50.0

damageValue(N) = 375
damageValue(L) = 300
damageValue(H) = 275

damageValue(S) = 200
damageValue(D) = 250
damageValue(A) = 300

[Spawn]

anyone else think its funny we are arguing about something that will never happen?  May have before, but the whole site jammer thing requires much more effort than making it cost less or whatever.  Also the vir shads wouldnt make sense.  shadowers (the missle itself) lock on by visual, so it could lock on using ship for help, but then its blind like normal on the feild.

[Red Devil]

I'd like to see a leader round from the TAG cannon used as a tracker ala the special sniper round used on the Scions in the 4th SP mission.

[Jwk the Hemp Monkey]

Lets get back on topic then. With plan two

Site cam should allow you to target/paint/use bomber anything you can 'see' whilst it is activated (regardless of radar cloaking). It should allow you to use missile locks on targets that are behind terrain and are visable. In this scenario it would require a 0 ammo usage to make it its pros and cons balenced.

you do have an affective counter to the Jammer...but on the same note you lose a special slot.

In affect the act of using jammer makes the other team use SITE instead of phantom vir (useful against multilock and stingers) or Redfield (useful against wasps) or Mits (great for traping scions and putting down the hurt).

Having the Site cam cost no ammo is still nessesary in this scenario to make this worth while, because if it did cost ammo one would do better by simply bringing along an AI scout (who paints all targets within 450m) whilst maintaining the abilty to lay mines/go invisable/become radar cloaked.

Also, as i mentioned before, the 2nd plan seem much easier to impliment for everyone. Making things as easy for the Dev's as possiable is a concern.

[Huscar]

I don't think they are gonna look at that at all, it would be nice though.

[Spawn]

an ai scout wouldnt work in 1.3
in 1.2 it would, but jammer doesnt even work there so its really pointless.
ai wont paint things in 1.3 if they are in a jammer.

and losing a special slot is not really worth painting in a jammed area.  You can use bomber or ai ships, and only one human would need to do it and for a short time.  the other humans could all have better utility mines for fighting.

and jammers are a really big pain, for they would actually work.  Unlike 1.2...