unit collision detect

[llulla]

I do not know where to read about it RD, I would like to.
I tried CR=15 for Scavs, RTs and Assaults but it is not improving much the situation of riding through other units. I will play some more and get a better feeling of it.

[Red Devil]

Look in the ChangeLog*.txt files in the root folder of your BZ2 PB3 install.

[Avatar]

It  does not affect riding THROUGH other, distant units, in an open space OR, explains what a is Bulldog  doing back and forth on a vertical wall. These things WERE NOT present in 1.0 or 1.2  so the piece of code governing the tracked vehicles was somehow reasonable.

One the most MAJOR complaints about 1.0 and 1.2 is that treaded units become permanently entombed inside buildings.  Tracked units are virtually useless in 1.0, and personally I think 1.2 made it even worse when it comes to tracked units and Gun Towers.  I can't tell you how many Scavs I've lost to being sucked into a GT...

There are problems related to each 'fix' of another problem.  It's like a house of cards.  Toss in personal preferences being so different and there's no way to please everyone.

For instance,
I don't mind if a unit can eventually push through a building IF it's the only fix to them being stuck inside that building forever. 
I don't mind if a unit shoves another one out of the way IF that's the fix to stuttering the game because all of my units are trying to path around each other. 
I don't mind if two units merge when going through a narrow spot IF it stops them from jamming up there and locking everything into a huge traffic jam.

See?  It's a case of picking your poison...

-Av-

[wug]

AFAIK, GSH tried many times to make the tracked vehicles work right, but to no avail.   The tendency to get stuck seems to be a little less than earlier in 1.3.

[Red Devil]

Correction: He gave us the tools to not make them get stuck.  Use them.

[llulla]

If the effects were only and precisely as you line them Avatar, I would agree too. The problem goes beyond that and, I believe, can not be limited simply as a matter of preferences.
I bet, no one agrees with the billiards-like behavior the tracked units have right now. Why the bumped units should spin strangely and hit the adjacent unit which also starts the same dance, creating a complete disarray of what you have planed? 
A bumped unit takes, sometimes, MINUTES to stabilize and get back to its position (IF ever); don't think is a preference. In the mean time that sector is open to enemy units. I have lost the Recycler several times because Assults and RTs were set off to travel in circles from Missile Scouts passing through .
And, if a vertical surface is nearby, be sure, the units will stay up there long enough to serve as target practice for any passing incoming units. Little hard to be somebody's preference.

These things go beyond your simplistic explanation because affect the game  too much. RDs constructive line is what must prevail in this topic : explain to and help everyone to make the possible correctins  to the problems he or she is suffering most.

[Avatar]

Again with the

I didn't offer a simplistic explanation, I just pointed out that much of the merging/getting stuck behaviour you say wasn't in 1.0 and 1.2 was INDEED present in 1.0 and 1.2, and was in fact worse than 1.3 under some conditions.  Buildlings such as GT's, that have an inner room, were like quicksand to tracked units in 1.2.  As RD says, 1.3 is better in that regard, and for mods can be tweaked even more to keep units out of trouble.

The issues with Treaded Units behaviour when struck, such as the strange spin you mention, seems to be related to the reverse feedback the treads give to the body of the unit when the tread lifts.  A bump lifts the body, which lifts the tread, which lifts the body, causing a small feedback loop.  While it's been brought up on the 1.3 private board I'm not sure if GSH is done with the patch for good, so it may not be 'officially' fixed.

There are also apparently issues with the small increase in traction I gave treaded units.  It's been reported that it causes warping when treaded units are piloted by humans in MP.  It may also be the real culprit behind the tread lift issue, but as far as I know nobody's had time to really check into it.

Either way, with some research and experimentation, the values GSH gave us in 1.3 can be used by the Community to come up with a fix for the remaining physics issues.  He unlocked so many values for us that the problem is narrowing things down to exactly what needs to be changed AND making sure other problems don't come from the changes.

OTOH don't mention a 'Community Physics Patch' to RD, he had a bad experience before when he started such a thing.

-Av-

[Zero Angel]

don't forget to make sure that your buildings have proper ODF settings to ensure that tracked vehicles don't get stuck.

A guntower is technically a vehicle to the AI and pathing engines, so set a fairly large collisionRadius (remember it's in meters) and use Shift+F9 view to see if it's large enough. And certain buildings will benefit from having 'tunnels' defined for them, where AI is allowed to pass through and where it is not.

This guide might help a bit.
http://www.bzuniverse.com/~zeroangel/reference/tunnel.php

Please note that I am severely procrastinating on developing the site further, so don't expect anything new unless I announce it.

[llulla]

Avatar, please read carefully what I wrote. I have never been for a " community patch" or similar. I hope the forums will have more user to user help. For that see the topic "wug AIPs".
I like the way RD and now Zero Angel try to advise EACH player about his problem or question according to THEIR personal experience. It would be great to see, like in some other occasions, pieces of ODF that have solved this or that problem or, an actual explanation what a param or  section of the file affects.
I am against non-specific advises or mesages type: I like it this way and you can go to hell... (I am exaggerating a bit about your first post ).

[Spawn]

Look in the modlog?

[Avatar]

I take it English is not your primary language?  Seems like there's some language barrier here...  for instance:

Avatar, please read carefully what I wrote. I have never been for a " community patch" or similar.

I never said you were.  I listed it as one of the options the Community has for changing unit behaviour.  Many people haven't read the changelog, or the modlog, and don't know what's possible. 

I believe the problem is:

I hope the forums will have more user to user help. For that see the topic "wug AIPs".   I am against non-specific advises or mesages type: I like it this way and you can go to hell... (I am exaggerating a bit about your first post ).

Then take your messages to email once you find someone who will help you with your specific problem.  This is a public forum for a reason, and the audience reading these messages are a diverse group many of whom find their own answers in "non-specific advises".

In Other Words I am NOT against non-specific advice or messages, often they provide answers to others than the original poster.

And you're exaggerating my first post a LOT.  You seem to have taken it personally when it wasn't intended that way.

I'll try to be clearer about that first post:  I said that what you see as a problem is/was not seen that way by everyone.  In fact, much of what you posted as a problem was intentionally put into the game by the developers to solve certain other problems.  The 1.3 patch opened up odf entries to allow us to change things on our own for just that reason.

I didn't say I liked it "that way", I just tried to point out that one man's fix is another man's problem.

Read the modlog, the changelog, search the forums, and don't rag on those of us who take the time to help newbies.  Also don't expect simple, direct answers to your questions.  You won't get them.  You'll get suggestions, "non-specific advise", and pointers to the source of the answers.  That's how the forums work regardless of what we're for or against...

-Av-
(who I think everyone will agree has helped more than his share of modders around here....)

[Red Devil]

llulla, Avatar has been in the BZ community since before rocks turned to dirt and has been modding and helping everyone all that time and is also the creator/owner of the BZ Classic mod for BZ2 and all of us here really like him a lot.  He is a senior member of the 1.3 patch test team and was very instrumental (and still is) in improving BZ2.  He has a *g-r-r-r-r-reat* sense of humor and is a great supporter of BZ1 and BZ2.

1.3 PB3 was released with hardly any modifications done to the ODF's due in part to complaints that previous patch releases were criticized as being mods because the ODF's were touched.  That being the case, any changes to be made with the expanded ODF entries is to be done by the modders, hence Avatar's and mine advice to look through the Changelogs and Modlog and experiment with things. 

To tell you the truth, there's so many new ODF entries that the devs added that I was overwhelmed with it all, so the advice holds for me too.  I'm still finding new stuff myself.

And watch out for Avatar's cane.  He'll whack you with it when you aren't looking.

[pictures Avatar in his wheelchair railing about 'those darn kids']  "Whippasnappa!"

[sabrebattletank]

Haha. I agree and laughed.

[BZZERKER]

RD forgot to mention that Av was also part of the FE Dev team.

I'm not much younger than Av and he even smacked me with that infernal cane of his.

[Zero Angel]

I do not know where to read about it RD, I would like to.
I tried CR=15 for Scavs, RTs and Assaults but it is not improving much the situation of riding through other units. I will play some more and get a better feeling of it.

Just saw this. OMG, CR=15? That's extremely high. And it cause a problem, because now units will avoid scavs to within 15 meters, which makes them big obstacles to the pathing engine. And if you have 4 scavs close together, AI units will take a big berth around them. Instead of simply dismissing and passing through them.