unit collision detect

[Avatar]

Harumph.  I'm not THAT old...well, maybe I am.  And that cane is nuclear powered so I don't always have full control of my whacking... 

And actually I think what he's saying is that units don't even try to not bump other units.  They'll drive right through them on their way to another spot. 

Collision Radius only applies to units that are trying NOT to collide, such as told to follow, or go to the same spot, or deploying when there, or figuring if they can fit through terrain or between buildings.  Units told to go somewhere just go, and will blast right through a crowd just sitting there in their path.

That was done on purpose to help with the pathing lockups around the Factory.

You'll never get BZ units to hold in any real pattern (other than turrets and even they have their moments).  The AI has a mind of it's own, and pathing is a major issue with most units as well as a load on the engines. 

IOW if you don't want that squad of hovercraft blasting through your carefully placed treaded units then use Navs to path the hovercraft around the treaded units.  Nothing much will make them carefully pick their way through the treaded units, as pathing just doesn't work that way.

-Av-

[llulla]

I printed all *log files and went through those carefully. Some years of programming background didn't help much .
It is not exactly a Reference Guide for someone who just decided to get in. It is, rightfully, meant for the people of the Inner Circle of BZ development/mod, already familiar with it. Hence, it is on the Inner Circle members to share bits of their knowledge when are asked for.
Being an engineer, my formation and work "forces" me to GIVE and REQUIRE detailed instructions.  If this is too much in this context, I excuse myself.

Back to the real topic. I am stating the clearly visible fact: right now, THE PLAYABILITY of 1.3 has deteriorated compared to 1.2, NOT that 1.2 is better than 1.3. I am not in the position to say that being simply a player.
Thanks again to RDs post, now I know that is all in the ODFs, and these, are so new and so full of unknown parameters that it will take some time to come to some acceptable balance.
Personally, I like to fiddle with the configs and shape the things for me, but, it will be like wandering in the woods, not having a few initial hints as key points.   

[GSH]

Just talking about issues (e.g. this, "sleepy" units) isn't as useful as actually providing cases (e.g. savegames) that quickly and easily reproduce it.

-- GSH

[Red Devil]

Just going to rattle off some stuff real quick here.

Increasing the cR just makes it easier for grouped units to have a clear filed of fire and gives units more room to navigate through them is all.  Easier to walk through a thin forest than dense brush and all that. That large cR=15 was just to show that it works.

Yeah, 1.3 physics need work.  All the code fixes and tweaks changed them. Spawn is supposed to be making a physics patch for it.

I'll be very happy to try to answer any of your questions.  Searching for keywords in the CL and ML will help answer a lot of them (so you don't have to wait for a reply from us).  Also, if you have questions about the interface and modding, Timevirus (TV) at http://www.timedisruptor.com/forum/portal.php  is very helpful.

Also, Fishbone and Liazard and most others at http://www.bz2md.com/smf/portal.php are very helpful.

Just saw that GSH had posted about providing savegames (made in Instant Action/Singleplayer) while I was posting this.  That's really the best way for him to track down most  bugs.

[llulla]

I am reading those files and, when the explanation is clear, I try something. Some other time the explanation refers to something I should know from previous work ( but I don't  ).
What initially caught my eye was [TrackedWehicles] section. I changed the parameters in a certain range, but did not notice any  effect worth to speak for.  What is the role of this section?
Another VERY disturbing thing I would like to fix is the movement of  Constructor/Builder. It is NOT ABLE TO CLIMB the slightest slope anymore (in Chill I built  Haulers to send my cons to the Scavs). What parameters may affects the climbing ability of the Cons?

G.SH. I will try to catch the occurrence of the innactive behaviour and send a savegame. I think classic maps like Canyons, Chill, Iceberg will do.

[Spawn]

There is no section by the name of [TrackedWehicles] but there is a [TrackedVehicles], unless I missed something.
Yes, the con is mildly retarded.

[Red Devil]

Try increasing the Construction Rig's:

accelThrust = 20.0

to something like this:

accelThrust = 32.0


Try these values for the Assault Tank:

COLLISION_RAISE = 0.5
SUSPENSION_MIN = -0.1
SUSPENSION_MAX = 0.5
SPRING_FACTOR = 3.0
DAMPING_FACTOR = 1.5   // critical damped
TREAD_STATIC_FRICTION = 2.5

I am reading those files and, when the explanation is clear, I try something. Some other time the explanation refers to something I should know from previous work ( but I don't  ).
What initially caught my eye was [TrackedWehicles] section. I changed the parameters in a certain range, but did not notice any  effect worth to speak for.  What is the role of this section?
Another VERY disturbing thing I would like to fix is the movement of  Constructor/Builder. It is NOT ABLE TO CLIMB the slightest slope anymore (in Chill I built  Haulers to send my cons to the Scavs). What parameters may affects the climbing ability of the Cons?

G.SH. I will try to catch the occurrence of the innactive behaviour and send a savegame. I think classic maps like Canyons, Chill, Iceberg will do.

[BZZERKER]

Don't tell me the damn cRig is on skates again....

I wonder what caused it this time?

[llulla]

Yes! It is skating. You see it in Chill when the Constructor tries to go up some inclined paths. Skating in the literal sense of the word.

[BZZERKER]

If you can make a repeatable save from just before it starts, send it to GSH and it should get taken care of.

[Avatar]

The Cons has gone from 'climbing a stairway to heaven' to unable to get over even the smallest of bumps.  The darn thing just keeps messing with us...

The main thing is that 1.3 is probably 99.99% done as far as code changes.  Nathan's hoping he can keep the 'final' touches and fixes to a minimum so I doubt we'll see any big changes to physics.   It should now be possible to safely make a list of odf entries that will help put physics back to 'fun' playability. 

GSH DOES need examples of anything that can hose MP, especially any joiner bugs.  For various reasons the beta team is weak on MP testing...   Other issues, like those below, should be sorted out by the community.

The 'ramming through other units' was done on purpose and should stay.  Removing it could mean the game going back to locking up when units try to path their way out of crowds.

Some of the whirling, twirling, strangeness of treaded units, especially when colliding, is due to the body roll and lift feeding back to the treads.  We should be able to odf that out of there and I plan to experiment with it myself this weekend using the Phaer Ran units from Fleshstorm.  The Punisher especially suffers from it, although it's handy when they become entombed on Gun Towers and you have to ram them out.

Treaded units colliding with buildings can be addressed by various means.  RD mentioned the Colllsion Radius entry, but there's a lot that can be done with collision objects and other odf entries like boxCollide and steerFactor.  I've suggested several times that "boxCollide =1" be the default for tracked vehicles...    Vertical walls and sharp, right angle joints in collision boxes are very bad, as are interior rooms in buildings with thin walls.   I've already tweaked the ISDF Pgen collision box and would like to do a bit more of that as time permits.

Personally I liked the stage in the beta when buildings actively pushed tracked units away, and I'm sorry to see that gone.  It really helped those stubborn Scavs that insisted on ramming a GT...

-Av-

[llulla]

I will test the changes RD suggests for the Constructor on some IA maps and let's see. In the mean time, I will try to get as many e savegames as possible indicating typical flaws. I play only IA, so I don't know if this will be of any use.

I agree on bumping through if, what follows, is a displacement rather proportional to the supposed weight of the units (of course, without the infamous twirling). Example, if a Service bumps an Attila, the latter shouldn't move at all . I hope that the ODF tweaking will correct what, as Avatar explains, will be the default for the 1.3 physics.

Jammers act as a black hole . Everything tracked, from Services or Titans are sucked in for a long time .

[Red Devil]

Something that *really* helps with the bumping/moving is adding the mass setting to ODF's. 

Using it, I was able to make Service Trucks immovable even when hit with an Assault Tank.  Adding it to all tracked units and Walkers would make them behave realistically and not so, um, flouncy bouncy.  Kinda hard to make it bounce when you can't bump it off the ground. 

[GSH]

Physics tweaks are a big gray area, which you're welcome to work on. However, things like the "sleepy units" that were complained about in so many threads, that ought to be easier to get a savegame on.

-- GSH

[Red Devil]

Can someone please elaborate on the sleepy units?  Not sure I've seen that.