The mechana live...well sort of now.

[Got-Silk?]

Avatar...I'm just learning stuff now and studying bzs scripts will help me to do what I can to learn modding from an experienced modder like Lizard and other modders willing to share information with those who not only enjoy the game, but want to create some more cool stuff for BZII. You're post suggests that only certain people have the creativity to mod; creating art requires a certain level of knowledge and creativity. Rather than criticize my sugestions could you suggestion something that's actually helpful instead? I'm sure that even Lizard would agree that modding doesn't just happen; it's a learned skill that each individual acquires over time. I'm almost certain that given some honest mentoring I could in theory (though I might be wrong) create some pretty cool stuff as well. Ever since I found this site quite a while back I've wanted to contribute to the game but lacked the experience needed to actually be of much help. I'm attempting to gain that knowledge through doing and asking questions relevant to modding. Some modders have offered help and some have actually enriched my knowledge and inspired me to want to mod for BZII. Anways, do you have a suggestions on helping me to learn modding? I understand most of the basic concepts but need some more specific sources of information on scripting DLLs matching them to AIPs. I downloaded a copy of Anywhere's PE viewer to look at DLLs in more detail and the program has already yielded some BZII command references that I'm using to study the structure of what goes into the DLLs. The BZS scriptor and AIP editor are very cool and I see how they really make things happen in the missions. Tanks, G-S? aka Bump-N-Go....     

[Red Devil]

How was what he said not helpful?

He told you you had to make a bunch of AIP's if you use the Instant.dll and warned you it would not be easy.

That's not criticism.  It's friendly advice.

Avatar is one of the best modders, has always been very helpful, and has been doing it probably since you were in diapers.


Now, in the spirit of being helpful, this is criticism:

It's difficult to read your posts because you don't use paragraphs and punctuation and you misspell.

You're too sensitive.

You have a big ego.

You assume much.

You have a big nose.

Stand up straight.  You're slouching.

[Lizard]

really, honestly my dll scripts are so hacked that a chimpanzee randomly pressing buttons could probably write better.


all my IA script does is load the corresponding AIP based on the races selected and then checks to see which recylcer dies first, that's it.


as for my AIP files .... well they are even more simplistic ... build, attack, harvest scrap.

basically what I did was remove anything that could possibly go wrong and that was pretty much everything at the time of writing the files. The only reason I wrote my own missions is because nobody else would and I can't say I learnt a whole lot along the way either, if you can't emulate what I did by following the instructions that came with the scriptor then there's probably not a whole lot I can add that would be of any use.... I'm an artist(?) not a programmer.

[APCs r evil]

I'm an artist(?)

Of course you are... Even though your most famous work flings mucous and looks like some disgusting insect's severed, skinless and misshapen head; you are the only one here who can do that on purpose and make it look good in it's own way; and for that, you are an artist and we thank you. 

[Avatar]

Um, yeah, what RD said...   

I don't see any criticism in my post, but then I wrote it and didn't intend any criticism.   I guess my posts don't make it through the language barrier all that well, as other posters have also taken some of my posts completely the wrong way...

So, plain and simple, some advice from an old modder:

1. Take it SLOW.  There are a lot of parts to modding, pick one and stick with it for awhile.  If you go from part to part you'll end up a master of nothing.  I started with modelling, and along the way had to learn skinning, ODF's, weapons, audio editing, cfg files, the shell, and am now working with DLLs and AIPs.  I've remade the four BZ1 races, and created three entirely from scratch, and it's a LOT of work that touches on a huge variety of areas.

2. Don't be afraid to ASK questions, but don't expect anyone to just lay out the answer.  We're a rowdy bunch and our threads go off topic quickly as we expand and explore the question.

3. Learn to SEARCH these boards and others like Time Disruptor, a lot of answers are already out there.

4. GATHER the tools you'll need.  Pandemic has made the DLL source code available, the stock XSI's and ODF's, and the community has created some amazing tools like PAK EXPLORER, WINTER, THREED, etc..  There are some great tutorials and references like the MODLOG around also, take advantage of them.

How's that? 

-Av-

[Got-Silk?]

Tanks Avatar, all things considered I basically just want to learn how to mod. No offense intended by my comments; it's just that there's not a lot of resources available to show new modders the ropes you know. I search the posts all the time and gleen little tid bits here and there and well I've gathered a box full of puzzle peices that I'm trying to put together now. I also realize that it is indeed a slow process to comprehend all the different aspects of the modding process. Every I time I grasp something new I'm even more determined to learn more. I have so many new ideas floating around in the ole noggin' that need an outlet in the form of creating new mods for the game. Even my nephew is starting to develop an interest in BZII after watching me show him the vast potential of modifying things within the game. G-S?

[sabrebattletank]

I think whwat Avatar is saying is this: Learn thins one at a time.


1) Get good (or at least passable) at modeling.

2) Get good (or at least passable) at map-making.

3) Get Good (or at least passable) at ODF-ing

4) Get Good (or at least passable) at *insert next topic here*.

[Lizard]

yeah what avatar said, you need to tackle BZ2 modding one bite at a time if you don't want to end up choking to death, it's not big subject, it's not a huge subject it's one of those subjects where we haven't really defined the boundaries yet, you never stop learning, old farts like avatar and I have have been modding this game for pushing on 7 years and we are still learning new things all the time.


making a mod isn't something you can really take a crash course in and master in few weeks, I started with map making and had a couple of map packs under my belt and a whole raft of IA maps before I felt confident enough to try other stuff ( mind you we were all still learning how to mod the game back then) , next I decided to learn modelling which took me a couple of years to really feel like I was mastering it, working on FE was a real eye opener but it wasn't until I'd been modding the game for over 3 years that I felt ready to start creating my own mod.

I'm not saying you have to be editing BZ2 files for 3 years before you should even consider making your own mod, it really depends upon the scope of your planned mod, Fleshstorm was a bit ambitious to say the least. You could quite easily make a successful mod just by editing ODF files and some people already have done. The BZ2 modding community tends to be better at helping those who help themselves, precise questions ( what does such and such do ? ) tend to get better responses than more generalised ones (how do I make a mod ? ).


The forums tend to be the best resource for information we have, we have a few tutorials on specific subjects but not many, the forums may take a little bit of searching but almost every subject has been covered at one time or another ( often multiple times in some cases ) .

[Lizard]

your most famous work flings mucous and looks like some disgusting insect's severed, skinless and misshapen head;

I'm glad you were able to appreciate the beauty of my work.   

[Avatar]

If you're talking beauty then I'd have to say the Phaer Ran are right up there...  fantastic race artistically and one that can be easily understood but is still different enough to make them interesting.  They're my current favorite race and considering I have 7 races of my own on my HD that's saying a lot... 

The Swarm, btw, just piss me off...   

-Av-

[Red Devil]

Ditto.

[Got-Silk?]

You know you all are so right...doing is so much better than complaining about any lack of available information. I would like to add some more tutorials eventually as I get a handle on modding for the game. I remember when I first starting to map for the game; I felt a little intimidated about modifying things but soon got over it when things actually worked in my maps. Afterwards, the new mods I found for the game really hooked me on BZII after seeing the cool new races that evolved from the original 2 races. I said to myself WOW look what other peeps were doin to create and colaborate together towards a finished mod. My background is in television production and I know that the whole process is dependant on not just one person but a team of talented people working towards a final product. Kudos, who all who endevor to create stuff for the game. Each of you serve as an inspiration to others that seek the same goal. My hats off to each one of you.

[Lizard]

If you're talking beauty then I'd have to say the Phaer Ran are right up there...  fantastic race artistically and one that can be easily understood but is still different enough to make them interesting.  They're my current favorite race and considering I have 7 races of my own on my HD that's saying a lot... 

The Swarm, btw, just piss me off...   

-Av-

The Phaer Rhan were a real challenge for me to design, organic looking stuff like the Swarm I could design in my sleep that sort of stuff comes so easily to me I barely even have to think about what I'm doing, but with designing the Phaer Rhan I really struggled.

A lot of the stuff got rebuilt from scratch a few times, especially some of the tracked vehicles, it took me a long time to come up with a satisfactory look for the textures, for a long time everything had a kind of galvanised look to it which looked really crappy. 

I'm glad it all worked out ok in the end though, I'm quite pleased with the final result aswell.


it sounds like the swarm are doing their intended job perfectly also  ....       

[Avatar]

I wouldn't mind them so much if I had my neutron bomb... 

Nothing like having a Scuttle keep your base beeping by sitting there spraying something it couldn't possibly destroy somewhere your defenses couldn't possibly reach...    arrrrrghh....   

Add that to the list.  To design a good race you have to be evil enough to add in those things others will HATE, as well as what they'll LOVE.   You can't have a good race without both of those things.

For instance, the Scions have the Mauler, which I love, and then they have the Mauler, which I hate (fear).   

-Av-

[Lizard]

I'll have a patch ready in a couple of weeks that will give the Phaer Rhan a whole bunch of new toys to play with. 


I think you'll like them Av. 


but it seems that to fit with your new philosophy I'm going to be forced to introduce some things you really hate ....