Somewhat excitedly confused about animated X to XSI model that's animated?

[BNG Da BZ Fool]

That's a very good question. It makes me wonder now what 1.5.5 does with the rest of the animation beyond 8 keys as it refers to in the export dialogue? Also, there's apparently a 30 day trial period for using that version. Still, the mere fact that it does actually convert the file correctly is a major step in the right direction. For so long I'd almost given up hope of ever getting my hands on something that actually works in correctly formatting the more or less obselete XSI format that BZII supports. At least now I can compare side by side the same file translated by both 1.5.5 and the version output by BZ2ME just to study the differences that screw up the BZ2ME version. The difference if not totally off may yeild a way to make changes to the bad version with some basic notepad editing magic. I'm going to and I suggest a few others do some basic detective work to see where it all leads, and post updates on the results if anything helpful is uncovered. BTW, do you know about the GMAX MDL exporter that simultaneously writes out an X file along with the MDL file? I had to add a top level frame in 3DEX to the X file get it to open in BZ2ME, but it did open afterwords for conversion to XSI. That version is vastly different from the version that GSL saves in which BTW closely resembles the XSI version that BZII uses. OM, even suggested that with some basic changes the X file might work to help get the X version to work with BZII.  

[mrtwosheds]

UPDATE

I have just been playing with a rotation animation.

AnimationSet {
   Animation anim-flux__2g {
      {frm-flux__2g}
      SI_AnimationKey {
         0;
         3;
         0; 4; 0.0, 0.00, 0.000, 0.00;;,
         8; 4; 0.0, 0.0, 0.01, 0.0;;,
         16; 4; 0., 0.0, 0.0, 0.0;;;

It has only one number that isn't 0! (and its value appears to be unimportant)
The frame is 2 vertical planes crossing each other, this animation makes it shrink/expand in the xy planes and invert itself.
might be useful for some sort of energy effect.

Actually this does not work in bz2, the frame does not shrink/expand as it does when viewed in 3dex 1.5.5 

BUT what it does do is also very interesting! The frame does nothing, but the lights I attached to it go ON and OFF! Instead of rotating. I have found a way to make Flashing lights!!!

[General BlackDragon]

Most of those numbers are 0's...and one is 0.01, u sure it doesnt move a *tiney* bit??

What kind of anim is it? strafing?

[BNG Da BZ Fool]

I can see from studying the Scion Recycler that 8 key frames is horribly inadequate for much of any kind of animation. Also, I noticed that for what little the 1.5.5 XSI converter does translate is horribly inefficient in terms of file size. For example, the full animated version from the data pack is 106k total verses the partially animated 1.5.5 version weighing in at a hefty 164k. My guess is that while the 1.5.5 XSI converter does indeed work; the work involved would be very labor intensive for a modeler wanting to make animated BZII models using it.

I'd have to say that it's usefulness may be limited to static non animated conversions which apparently have no animation key frames at all. I also noticed that the Sci. recycler has several individual animated sections that make up the entire file. I think that unless something else is uncovered that can shed more light the issue it may have limited usefulness for most modelers wanting to do full animations this way.

Sorry to get any body's hopes up, but apparently the search goes on again. Blender 3D, is beginning to look like the best hope for creating animations for the game. I'm also searching for older 3d model making applications made around the time of the release directx version 6, so if anyone knows of modelers released during this time period please post some basic information that I can base my search criteria on. Tanks, BNG.   

[bigbadbogie]

reminder - 3dsmax works perfectly for animations

just start saving $$$

oh - and if anyone wants anything animated you can send it to me via pm (if i have the time i will do it for you)

[mrtwosheds]

What kind of anim is it? strafing?

Its a rotation like the power gen. rotations are weird that why I was experimenting. I still can't quite get my mind around what all four values in the data line do, at least 2 of the values need to be set to create the effect of 3d rotation, as otherwise the effect is only 2 dimensional, so I was trying to do make a 2 dimensional animation. In 3dex that anim would appear to make a 3d model flat and then inverted (left right) But this does not happen in bz2. It just made the lights flash as .8 second intervals...

[OvermindDL1]

The first number is the tenth of a second that the line/keyframe occurs on, all values between the last and this one (and so forth to the next) are all interpolated if missing.
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[BNG Da BZ Fool]

This is interesting. I made a reference cube in GSL and saved as X. Then in 3DEX 1.5.5 I converted it to XSI; it has no animation just an untextured cube centered in the workspace. Then I did the same thing in BZ2ME to get it's version of an XSI file. What I noticed with the BZ2ME version is that it added the following entry under the SI_Coordinate entry (See it below)

SI_Angle {
   0;
}

SI_Camera  Camera1 {
   1.297981; 2.646989; 3.466687;;
   -1.766339; 1.376721; 2.805893;;
   0.000000;
   60.000031;
   0.100000;
   32768.000000;
}

SI_Ambience {
   0.500000; 0.500000; 0.500000;;
}

SI_Fog {
   0;
   0;
   0.500000; 0.500000; 0.500000;;
   20.000000;
   100.000000;
}

SI_Light  light1 {
   0;
   1.000000; 1.000000; 1.000000;;
   0.000000; 5.966998; 0.000000;;
}

The 3DEX version did not add this statement in the file conversion from X to XSI. As a test I opened both in notepad to do a visual file compare where I notice this difference along with the fact that the BZ2ME truncates a lot of the zero's present in the 3DEX version. Would this adding of the above listed entry cause problems for the BZII game engine; apparently it's erroneous non existent info that BZ2ME adds.

Also, as a test, I deleted this section from the BZ2ME version in notepad saved it and reopened the file to see if omission of the entry would cause a file opening error and it did not. Apparently, the extra entry in the BZ2ME version is not needed. Other then the extra entry added by BZ2ME the layout of the rest of the file is virtually identical to the 3DEX version which is know to animate okay.

What I'm going to try next is the same thing with my animated test cube and eliminate the same unneeded entry and see what happens. Wish me luck...BNG 

[OvermindDL1]

All of that above listed data is ignored by BZ2 (literally passed right over as long as there is a close curly bracket for every open one).  It will have absolutely no effect on BZ2 whether it exists or not.

That is just normal scene information for if the file is open and saved from SoftImage3D itself.  It sets the camera position of the scene camera, the lights, etc... but as stated BZ2 ignores it in full.
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[General BlackDragon]

Don't use Threed. Use "X to XSI Converter"...better

[mrtwosheds]

I created a scale animation. (had no example previously)
AnimationSet {
   Animation anim-flux__2g {
      {frm-flux__2g}
      SI_AnimationKey {
         1;
         3;
         0; 3; 1.0, 1.00, 1.000;;,
         8; 3; 0.0, 0.0, 0.0;;,
         16; 3; 1.0, 1.0, 1.0;;;
      }
   }
}
It does nothing in bz2, but works in 3dex.

[OvermindDL1]

From what I see, BZ2 does encode the scale animation in the .msh, whether it uses it in BZ2 itself, no clue, but it does seem to encode it into the .msh file.  That number that specifies type right after the "SI_AnimationKey" line is the type of frames with 0 being rotations (quaternions in form), 1 being scale, 2 being transformation/position.  There can only be one of each type of "SI_AnimationKey" per "Animation <name>", so 1 position, 1 scale, 1 rotation, if any more are specified then the previous is deleted and the latest is used.  XSI files also support a forth type, a rotation based on euler angles, BZ2 does not support that one, do not try it.

Also, for note, the max range of animation frames is from 0 to 511.
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[BNG Da BZ Fool]

I tried the same test with my animated cube in both 3DEX and BZ2ME XSI converted files. I'm trying to get away from using BZ2ME as unless you check the box in the structure tree when editing a frame an animationset entry is not otherwise added (the one it does create does not add the original animation keyframe data anyways just some random numbers) to its XSI output file; it truly is proving to be somewhat of a worthless piece of crap. However as a test, I copied the animation data from the 3DEX version to the BZ2ME version and it animated okay. MTS, you say the animations work in 3DEX but not the game right? I wonder why? My knowledge is far too limited to understand other then to guess that the 1.5.5 version must not truly comply to the version actually used by BZII. Your notepad method and OM's exporter appear to be the only free viable options for doing any kind of actual animation. I've also still got my hopes pinned on locating a modeler released around the time of DX-6 that supports the X version that BZII is supposedly is compatible with. Do any of you guys who made the original game have a clue as to what other 3d modelers were in use around the time BZ was released. Also, another question I have is; does the original BZ use the same XSI format as BZII? Tanks BNG.

Finding a usable XSI version is proving to be quite a frustrating mystery for animating models. As I've mentioned before it does appear to work fine for non animated models as I tested one of my own models in the game, and was able to enter the unit, fly around in it, and exit from it just fine. Animated stuff, however, is beyond my current understanding of how to even begin animating anything. I'm still testing things out and have a few other areas to explore before I move on to other things as this one is merely another step in the BZII modeling saga that just seems to go on an on an...well you know what I mean. BNG, signs, scratches his head, and wipes the chalk board clean again.

[mrtwosheds]

I would guess that the makers of bz2 saw no need for scale animation and did not implement it in their code, there are none that I have seen in game or in the stock xsi. Or maybe its me just guessing how they would be in the xsi format...
It would be cool for one player missions, a giant growing walker/monster/boss
All i'm trying to do is make a sort of glowing pulsating core for my dbpgen. the one it has currently rotates on 2 axis but still looks a bit too solid.

[bigbadbogie]

maybe make a geom effect that shrinks and gets bigger