Ya gotta commend evolutionists

[Axeminister]

I'm surprised noone is mentioning Darwin's birthday yesterday. The British had like the biggest party day for anyone ever over there. I would like to commend him because he represents a thinking man in a time when blind faith was the norm. Thinking outside the box has gotten us much farther in technology than we would have otherwise.

AcneVulgaris made me laugh with his new song. lol

[mrtwosheds]

I have found that attempting to discuss such issues, with people who use the self rationalising but illogical arguments like the one above, is usually an entirely pointless exercise.

 
The exclusive argument has evolved to protect itself from intrusion by other concepts. It is an argument that has evolved in the group human consciousness over a very long period of time, It is quite immune to most forms of logic and rationality. It survives, parasite like, in the minds of its hosts, spreading down the generations, usually in a passive state until reality challenges it and forces its illogicality out into the open. Then it fights back using its hosts as its weapon. They start wars, commit acts of terrorism, murder, oppress free thought and the freedoms of their people. The exclusive argument justifies it all to its hosts, as we have seen in the most recent outbreak of fanaticism.
There are no fully effective cures for a society infected with an exclusive argument. Liberal doses of freedom and scientific education have been shown to reduce infections for periods of time, but reinfection frequently occurs when the freedom and knowledge support systems become weakened or the society allows the argument to infect its governmental structures.

[cheesepuffly]

Thinking outside the box has gotten us much farther in technology than we would have otherwise.

Technology YES, finding out where the universe began, no.

And besides evolution only explains where we came from, not where the universe came from.

[CmptrWz]

What kind of proof do you have they DON'T exist? If so whats your belief on the beginning of the universe.

I have no proof that they don't exist. I have no proof that they do.

Absence of proof against does not imply proof of, and absence of proof of does not imply proof against.

However, as the only decent "proof" anyone can provide me of the existence of a supreme being, that is not also considered "proof" of other things entirely, is that various religious texts supposedly influenced or directly written by said being say that said being exists and that he wrote said texts, I am inclined to believe that this "proof" is man-made fiction, and thus may be dismissed as fantasies of ancient people.

Thus, I cannot provide proof either way. I can argue likelihoods, though.

Is it likely that there is a single, solitary supreme being that is all powerful, cares about us only if we believe in him, punishes those that do not believe in him by letting them be taken by someone who previously betrayed him, and yet only allows the word of others who cannot have experienced any of it as his only message actually exists?

Based on the physical evidence at our disposal, probably not. By the very nature of the story, there is no evidence to be had. The description is fairly nonsensical as well, making it less believable.

Is it likely that said supreme being had a son, who died, came back, and is willing to take on all of our "sins" so that we can escape eternal torture?

Based on the physical evidence at our disposal, probably not. The only evidence we have are ancient items that have no guaranteed connection with anyone, and the stories about this miracle individual drop most of his life into the void, and most of it can't be easily proven. That which people claim HAS proven it has been shown to be easily faked with period technology and knowledge, to the point where some of it is more likely to be fake than real.

Is it likely that the universe, or this incarnation of the universe, began in a giant explosion an insanely high number of years ago?

Based on the physical evidence at our disposal, fairly.

Is it likely that said explosion was the work of a being beyond our comprehension?

Based on the physical evidence at our disposal, we can't tell. All of our physical evidence originates from the explosion.


The way I see it, if there is a supreme power in charge of the universe, they made one hell of a large place from our point of view. And yet, we are insignificant specks inside of it. Thus, I think it is much more likely that if said being does exist, they don't even know we are here.

I mean, lets face it. We are a tiny speck in a galaxy that is itself a tiny speck in the universe. Physical evidence shows that life on this planet has existed for an insignificant time in the timeline of the universe. If there IS a single person behind the creation of the entire universe I am willing to bet that they could do their equivalent of blinking and we have existed for less time then it takes their equivalent of an eyelid to start moving, let alone have them finish the blink.

And that is assuming that they didn't get bored with the universe who knows how long ago and moved on.

[Feared_1]

And that is assuming that they didn't get bored with the universe who knows how long ago and moved on.

That's a very "human" way of going about it... how about we peek at the "other side"?

[cheesepuffly]

Response (cause i dont want to reply)

First of all, he loves ALL of us, no matter what even you, Osama bin laden, even George Bush.  Id go into details, but i dont think you care.

Second of all, where did that explosion come from? Your seriously saying that the WHOLE universe, of which we cant even fathom how big it is, was once a tiny spec, and for unknown reasons, exploded into the universe?

That makes less sense.

Think about how complex the universe is, how complex a single cell is. (even though this has been brought up before) It simply does not make sense.

Your stating that more or less the universe just "happened to come into existence"  





Sure hope you dont hate me cause of this, just want a healthy debate.

[AcneVulgaris]

Think about how complex the universe is, how complex a single cell is. (even though this has been brought up before) It simply does not make sense.

Your stating that more or less the universe just "happened to come into existence"  

A being that could design such complex things must be more complex than those things.  It seems  more likely that if something just popped into existence, it would be the less complex of the two.

[mrtwosheds]

Second of all, where did that explosion come from? Your seriously saying that the WHOLE universe, of which we cant even fathom how big it is, was once a tiny spec, and for unknown reasons, exploded into the universe?

A fairly unlikely theory, proposed by people who sought a beginning, an understandable mistake.
The source of The Very Big Explosion can be deduced by a simple logical process, It was caused by two objects colliding whose relative velocity's/masses were VERY different.
A theory that only causes more questions to be asked, how annoying for those seekers of finity.

[Angstromicus]

The beginning of time wasn't with the  big bang. The universe has been exploding an imploding for god knows how long. Some scientists have deduced through quantum mechanics and string theory (and possibly other theories) that the universe goes through periods of expansion and contraction in which each cycle lasts about 300 billion years.

The universe "explodes" from an infinitely small point, and expands out into a relatively sparse state. Then, instead of a cold death happening, the universe begins collapsing back in on itself, speeding up as it goes along. The end result is that everything in the universe condenses back into another infinitely small point and most information from the universe's previous state is lost. Thus implying the beginning of time would be the big bang. Considering the law of conservation of energy, this process is timeless.

So by this, there is no beginning and no end to the universe, just a cycle of rebirth.

[bigbadbogie]

You are assuming the universe exists at all.

What if it is not really there? What if the universe is just an empty void which we as foolish humans have decided needs to be a certain size and needs to have begun at some point in time?

[Angstromicus]

Sure, why not? Why not just imagine 72 virgins right here, right now !

Or maybe I want to be alone *shrinks universe down to 5 feet x 5 feet x 10 feet*.

Hmmm, this doesn't seem to be working... Maybe humans aren't the masters of a non-existent universe after all?

[cheesepuffly]

So by this, there is no beginning and no end to the universe, just a cycle of rebirth.

So when did this cycle begin hm?

[bigbadbogie]

There is no cycle. Therefore it didn't begin at all.

[mrtwosheds]

So when did this cycle begin hm?

Only finite things have beginnings and ends, if the love of your GOD is infinite, then it must be contained in an infinite universe, that has no beginning or end.

Consider this too, humanity will have appeared  (evolved or created) and vanished again before our little galaxy has even revolved once, none of these fine theory's will ever be proven by us.

[Arbystrider]

Only finite things have beginnings and ends

Infinite or DEfinite?

Anyway, just noticed, is EVERYBODY here (except me) a Christian? zomfgbbqroflolzord!