Who is God?

[Feared_1]

its something that will be triggered when the whole world believes these things, follows these laws, worships this God, ect ect.

And that's where your belief contradicts mine.

Think this way: Heaven is not in this universe. It is a completely different plane that is impossible to get to physically within your human lifetime. When you are TAKEN by God, you leave our universe and convert over to the new plane.

The only CONVERSION that will take place is what RD already stated. When the rapture of the church occurs, a new Heaven and a new Earth (New Jerusalem) will take place.

Earth is NOT Heaven. Heaven is eternal paradise. Earth (according to science) is not eternal, therefore making it "not Heaven".

I'm not out to change your belief. I don't know where you stand on the issue. I'm not going to try to disprove something you believe. That is impossible (right MTS and BBB?)

[sabrebattletank]

Just to clarify: I never said it was my belief. I don't have a belief on this issue set in stone yet. I just wanted to see if I could argue it slash remember it.

Of course it's possible to disprove something people believe. The word "believe" implies that there's a lack of hard facts and therefore there must be a leap of faith to reach a conclusion. If someone finds facts that directly contradict a belief, and the person changes his view in light of the new evidence, then you have changed his belief. Or destroyed it, since with facts the new idea would not be "belief" but "knowledge".

[sabrebattletank]

As for religion doing more harm than good; if there is no belief in God, then there is no need for a belief in morals. As a result, nothing is wrong. Therefore, people have no conscience about murder, rape and any other wrong thing.

But there does seem to be a need for a belief in morals -- we still get things like Utilitarianism and Hedonism and all those -isms that don't call for a belief in God.

[Darkplanet01]

It is less inaccurate than you think. Granted, we aren't talking about a "scientific" article, but still: http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2005/12/69844

Yes I know it isn't always that inaccurate. Still, thought it was worthy of being pointed out.

[Darkplanet01]

But he could have. Follow this logic. IF what Jesus meant was that life on Earth was supposed to be heaven when the whole world was converted, then the disciples had a reason to travel and spread the Good News. Why DID they go out and evangalize, anyway? The Jews weren't big evangelicals. They didn't come from an evangelical tradition. The Epistles of Paul can thought of as letters trying to get people to convert to this new offshoot of Judaism. Paul was perhaps the best businessman ever, trying to sell his product, The Way, so that the world could become heaven.

Maybe he could have, but that would contradict other parts of the Bible. Besides, they still had a reason to spread the News. They couldn't let people go about their lives not even knowing that they could be saved. Think of it this way. If we know someone is in danger, and know of someone who can help them if they ask him (pretend we can't save them, which is what its like in the Bible's case), we will tell them about it and ask them to find the one who can help them.

[Darkplanet01]

But there does seem to be a need for a belief in morals -- we still get things like Utilitarianism and Hedonism and all those -isms that don't call for a belief in God.

People have been made with a conscience from God, that is why we see lawlessness as a bad thing. These -isms we get can only be opinions without God. Believing there is no God, people think of moral codes to go by without needing God. But the thing about these is that they are matters of opinion, rather than actual morals. It is what people believe is right and wrong, but the fact that there are so many different types of these moral codes shows that you can't have a set basis of morals, which means that people chose their own 'morals', making it no different from having no moral codes at all.
And before you point out the different forms of Christianity, I will first like to say that these come from adding on or taking off parts of the Bible's moral code. Not all the adding on is bad (but most if not all is unnecessary (grr I hate that word)), but the taking off is. Changing God's word is a bad idea. My point is that while Christianity has a set right and wrong, atheism doesn't.
Christianity's morals are set down by God. Atheism's are set down by people, and because their are many people, they have different ideas of right and wrong.
Reading back over my post it does seem a bit hard to follow, but I'm tired at the moment so you'll just have to put up with it.

[Darkplanet01]

Just to clarify: I never said it was my belief. I don't have a belief on this issue set in stone yet. I just wanted to see if I could argue it slash remember it.

Of course it's possible to disprove something people believe. The word "believe" implies that there's a lack of hard facts and therefore there must be a leap of faith to reach a conclusion. If someone finds facts that directly contradict a belief, and the person changes his view in light of the new evidence, then you have changed his belief. Or destroyed it, since with facts the new idea would not be "belief" but "knowledge".

And actually I would have to agree with that. Many conversions of beliefs happen all the time. And if 'believe' implies the lack of hard facts, I don't believe there is a God. I know there is a God.

[mrtwosheds]

Humans are the only ones with souls, therefore they (we) are the only beings that transfer into the spiritual realm after death.

Human supremacism. We are such vain creatures. This attitude is the main force behind the gradual destruction of our world, (or Gods creation if you like).
No doubt, just like God and heaven, a soul is something whose existence we are simply unable to find, prove or disprove and is thus just another clever defensive argument evolved over eons of theological discussion.
Humans are the only ones with souls! what a blind concept and convenient state of affairs that is!
Christianity has become a spiritual dead end, it has evolved to hide the truth and justify its followers willful ignorance of the things it claims to celebrate.

[Avatar]

DarkPlanet01, you know you can start a quote, then scroll down through the current page and easily add further quotes to your reply?  I think you can also Merge consecutive posts...

Just pointing this out so it doesn't end up looking like you're posting to yourself... 

-Av-

[sabrebattletank]

Maybe he could have, but that would contradict other parts of the Bible.

The Bible contradicts itself a lot if taken literally, without an understanding of the nature of the books and their historical places.

[Red Devil]

Well, I definitely know we all have souls.  Awhile back, I was experimenting with "astral projection" and one day I succeeded and was able to do it when I wanted to after that.

Then one night while I was "just leaving", I saw this dark form "standing" in the hallway that had what I can only describe as a very malevolent presence.  The night light was on, but the shape was darker than dark, so I could see its shape....then it started moving towards my body lying there on the bed just beneath me...       SNAP!  back in I went.  Never been so scared in all my life (I actually pulled the covers over my and and I prayed)  I've never done it since and never will.  NeverNeverNever.

So, there's no believing for me if the soul exists - I know.

[sabrebattletank]

And before you point out the different forms of Christianity, I will first like to say that these come from adding on or taking off parts of the Bible's moral code.

I'm not even going to bother with the differences within Christianity. What about the differences between Christianity and the Aztec religion, for example? Those two are certainly both "religions," yet one requires human sacrafice while Christianity abhors it. The Aztecs believed in gods, Christians believe in three Gods in one. (Is that all Christians? Or just most? I'm not sure on all the variations of Protestantism to be honest). They both believe in gods, the Aztecs many and the Christians one. Even looking at the differences in the moral code between the Christians and our Abrahamic brothers, the Muslims, there are stark differences in morality.

[Feared_1]

Then one night while I was "just leaving", I saw this dark form "standing" in the hallway that had what I can only describe as a very malevolent presence.  The night light was on, but the shape was darker than dark, so I could see its shape....then it started moving towards my body lying there on the bed just beneath me...       SNAP!  back in I went.  Never been so scared in all my life (I actually pulled the covers over my and and I prayed)  I've never done it since and never will.  NeverNeverNever.

Good lord.....

[Darkplanet01]

Human supremacism. We are such vain creatures. This attitude is the main force behind the gradual destruction of our world, (or Gods creation if you like).
No doubt, just like God and heaven, a soul is something whose existence we are simply unable to find, prove or disprove and is thus just another clever defensive argument evolved over eons of theological discussion.
Humans are the only ones with souls! what a blind concept and convenient state of affairs that is!
Christianity has become a spiritual dead end, it has evolved to hide the truth and justify its followers willful ignorance of the things it claims to celebrate.

Humans are the ones with souls because we were created special to be God's friends. Christianity doesn't hide the truth at all, it is the truth.

[Darkplanet01]

The Bible contradicts itself a lot if taken literally, without an understanding of the nature of the books and their historical places.

The Bible sometimes seems to contradict itself sometimes, but most of the time it is either due to people's interpretations and other times translation issues.