Who is God?

[mrtwosheds]

Quite frankly, im absolutely scared hootless about death. Sit on the edge of youre bed and think to yourself, im going to have to face a moment one day where my eyes will close and never open. Im going to have to face that alone. Everyone is. Its a terrible thing to live in fear, and i don't understand how anyone can not be scared of something like that.

Fear of dying is hard-wired into most concious beings.
Think about it differently, your evolving DNA sequence is %millions of years old, possibly more. The death you think of is no more than the ending of 1 little game run by that ancient DNA program. Before that game started, you were dead, once it is over you will be dead again. The ancient program may or may not continue, our body's know this, that is why (most) Parents will sacrifice themselves to save their children, their body's know what is most important, even if the concious mind does not. Life is in the body, the concious mind just a game it plays.

A Direct contradiction of most religions teachings. But an undeniable fact.

If the game never ended... what would we become?

[Spawn]

BBB, what I am saying is that you don't have to be a member of an organized (or even disorganized) religion in order to believe in God.  "Religion" has done far more harm than good throughout history.

In fact, by your comments and others I have seen through the years, I'll say that religion has pushed far more people away from God than led them to God.

Well said, Spawnster.

What I said applies equally to all viewpoints.  If you don't consider the fact that you could be wrong constantly then your own viewpoint is just as unjust.

[cheesepuffly]

What I said applies equally to all viewpoints.  If you don't consider the fact that you could be wrong constantly then your own viewpoint is just as unjust.

Theres wrong and there is SOL. If you dont believe in God and you die then well, i pitty you. IF you do believe and there actually is a God and it ends up there is not, well you lost nothing. Christians have nothing to fear, if it does not come true we loose nothing, if it does come true we gain alot. Evolutionists ah not so much.

[Spawn]

If you don't even listen to the other point of view because it differs from your own then you are assuming that you are perfect and there is no possible flaw in yourself.  If you are indeed as perfect as you assume yourself to be, then I propose you take the next logical step and declare yourself a god.

If you want to continue making ridiculous statements then my only counter is to match your level of absurdity.  I suggest that you step off your cloud and open your mind.

[Avatar]

Did anyone here ever see time bandits?

"What's the matter, Master?"

"Well, it's just for a moment there..."

"Yes, Master?"

"I felt, almost, good..."

"I'm sorry Master!"

"It'll pass, it'll pass..."

Classic. 

-Av-

[cheesepuffly]

If you don't even listen to the other point of view because it differs from your own then you are assuming that you are perfect and there is no possible flaw in yourself.  If you are indeed as perfect as you assume yourself to be, then I propose you take the next logical step and declare yourself a god.

If you want to continue making ridiculous statements then my only counter is to match your level of absurdity.  I suggest that you step off your cloud and open your mind.

You mean meh? 

If so, i say i know the truth not that i am perfect. I listen to the other viewpoint, my current one makes the most sense in my opinion.

Those statements are only ridiculous because YOUR viewpoint is different than mine.

If your not talking about me, then well forget it said that.

[Darkplanet01]

*Shakes head*
Christianity is only a religion by some definitions. If religion is any belief in a supreme being, then yeah, Christianity fits. If religion is a set of rules, a code that must be followed to earn your way to heaven, then Christianity is NOT religion. What the Bible teaches is that we have all sinned. Don't try to deny it. We all do things like lie, swear, hate, insult, and worse things. Therefore we fall short of the glory of God. That is our fault, and nothing we can do can change it.
Therefore, since God is a just God, we must be subject to punishment
But God is also a God of love, and he loves us so much, he sent his only son (who was part of himself due to being part of the trinity), to die an extremely painful death, to take the punishment we were subject to, so that justice was fulfilled and we could also be saved.
But God's greatest gift wasn't even the death of his son. His greatest gift was choice. So he doesn't make us automatically go up to heaven. We have to choose. Repent and be saved. It's that simple.
It is true that religion, even Christianity, has been used for dastardly things in the past. But to do so it has always been twisted to fulfil that purpose. As for religion doing more harm than good; if there is no belief in God, then there is no need for a belief in morals. As a result, nothing is wrong. Therefore, people have no conscience about murder, rape and any other wrong thing. It is no concidence that the decline in Christian teachings has been followed with the incline in crime rates, abortion, etc.
If you need evidence for the existence of God, go to www.creation.com
Search in the FAQ's. If you cannot find what you are looking for, leave some feedback.
I, also, would be happy to answer any questions. Visit www.freewebs.com/darkplanet01 and comment in my forums or blog, asking a question or even just going on a rant, and I will happily reply.

BTW, those who point to evolution as there basis for belief in no God, remember that as a fighter jet can't assemble itself from a pile of scrap, even given millions of years, the simplest single-celled organism - far more complex than a fighter jet - cannot assemble itself from bits of chemical waste.
Also, evolution requires the increase of genetic data, which has never been observed to happen.

[Spawn]

To cheesepuffly: (there was an ly at the end of your name and this is he only time I ever noticed it, lol)

You don't actually know what my viewpoint is.  I know what yours is because of you preaching it.  If you want to project your morals onto others think about if they want them first.

You do have a lot to lose if you are wrong, the small amount of time you have here would be wasted.  You also should not assume your own time to be worthless, or it will be

You mean meh? 

If so, i say i know the truth not that i am perfect. I listen to the other viewpoint, my current one makes the most sense in my opinion.

Those statements are only ridiculous because YOUR viewpoint is different than mine.

If your not talking about me, then well forget it said that.

[Darkplanet01]

You do have a lot to lose if you are wrong, the small amount of time you have here would be wasted.  You also should not assume your own time to be worthless, or it will be

The time would not be wasted. Christianity doesn't deny us fun. Even the time spent going to church and praying would not be wasted, as even if God were not there (which is a flawed belief in the first place), praying and attending church makes you feel better at the very least. And our feelings have a tremendous impact on our lives.
In fact, I'm pretty sure Christians are generally more happy than non-Christians.
Christians also give more to charity, are far less likely to become criminals, and generally treat people better.

[Spawn]

To Darkplanet01:

A fusion reactor assembled itself and made our sun.  Seeing as how we did not yet make one of those but we have made a fighter jet I would assume it to be more complicated.  Sure, you can just say "god made the sun" but I could say "chaos made the sun" and we would both have the same amount of proof.  This does not make either of us right or wrong, it just distracts from the topic at hand.

Anyway, I propose that the christian moral system is actually more primitive then an atheists morals.  Let me explain before you stop reading or bring up the idea that any number of people you have or have not met posses morals.  The idea that you do good because someone will slap you on the wrist when you do not is a simpler version of the religious view, but it possesses a similar quality.  The need to have something looking over in order to prevent evil, or the idea that if nothing was going to punish you later then there would be no reason to ever do good.  The moral atheist, on the other hand, does good in order to do good, not because they expect the action to be reinforced or the opposite action to later be punished by some higher power.

The key distinction is you believe people to be naturally evil and will only do good when forced or otherwise coerced to.  I believe that people are naturally mild mannered and do good to do good.  Or did you mean something else when you said, "if there is no belief in God, then there is no need for a belief in morals"?


On a slightly different point, the problem that many have with organised religion is each one believing that it is solely right, and because it is right they have the duty to impose every doctrine on others.  This defies what you yourself have stated was the greatest gift of god, choice.  I will not provide specific examples to this because I believe that these words are simple enough on their own, but if you require a certain number please state that and I will provide as such.

[Spawn]

The time would not be wasted. Christianity doesn't deny us fun. Even the time spent going to church and praying would not be wasted, as even if God were not there (which is a flawed belief in the first place), praying and attending church makes you feel better at the very least. And our feelings have a tremendous impact on our lives.
In fact, I'm pretty sure Christians are generally more happy than non-Christians.
Christians also give more to charity, are far less likely to become criminals, and generally treat people better.

Once again, I cannot refute anecdotal evidence, as it has no bearing.  If it makes you happier then it makes you happier, but you cannot simply say everyone does this, because you will be wrong if one person doesn't.

[Darkplanet01]

Fear of dying is hard-wired into most concious beings.
Think about it differently, your evolving DNA sequence is %millions of years old, possibly more. The death you think of is no more than the ending of 1 little game run by that ancient DNA program. Before that game started, you were dead, once it is over you will be dead again. The ancient program may or may not continue, our body's know this, that is why (most) Parents will sacrifice themselves to save their children, their body's know what is most important, even if the concious mind does not. Life is in the body, the concious mind just a game it plays.

A Direct contradiction of most religions teachings. But an undeniable fact.

If the game never ended... what would we become?

This is not an undeniable fact.
1) If the Earth were millions of years old, there would be no land, as it would have all eroded away.
2) Life is not a computer game. Life is the existence of us on Earth.
3) Death is in fact simply the ending of our Earthly bodies and minds. The most important part of us, the soul, leaves and goes on to the next life. If you haven't accepted God's salvation... things aren't going to end well. If you have, you are in paradise for eternity.
4) Before that 'game' started, we were not 'dead', we had not been created yet. When we are dead our bodies and minds no longer function, but our soul transcends to the spiritual realm. The time before we were created, we did not exist, body, mind and soul. Death in Earthly terms is the inexistance of simply our mind and body.

[cheesepuffly]

To cheesepuffly: (there was an ly at the end of your name and this is he only time I ever noticed it, lol)

You don't actually know what my viewpoint is.  I know what yours is because of you preaching it.  If you want to project your morals onto others think about if they want them first.

You do have a lot to lose if you are wrong, the small amount of time you have here would be wasted.  You also should not assume your own time to be worthless, or it will be

Funny, people usually notice the y, not the L though.

Im not saying i know your view point, im saying its different. If it was not the same we would not be in this would we? I mean, atleast from what you have said and my human understanding thats how i see it.

I preach it because well its the truth. Im stating, not er um pushing.
Im putting the bread on the table, im not forcing it down your throat.

Trust me, Christians have fun. Tons of fun, relative non God related things happen at my church. Every tuesday we have a meeting, adults go one place, teens go somewhere else, and kids go some were else. At the teen place, its 20 minute bible study, 50 minutes playing various games i brought. (cause everyone elses is crap)

If you think the only thing that happens in church is God related your wrong.


(EDIT)

@At spawns 1st post

Primitive is not necessarily bad if it were then knives would not be used to kill people.

We do it because we want to do good. Set a good example to that the next can follow.
So atheists are moral but Christians or some god believing person is not moral?

Basically what your saying is if you saved someone out of the good of your heart, or for a reward, but the person is still saved, thats wrong? (and by saved i mean from some kind of earthly danger)
If that were true, kids would not get many gifts....


And as i said before, religions that believe in God or a god KNOW atheists don't.

[Darkplanet01]

To Darkplanet01:

A fusion reactor assembled itself and made our sun.  Seeing as how we did not yet make one of those but we have made a fighter jet I would assume it to be more complicated.  Sure, you can just say "god made the sun" but I could say "chaos made the sun" and we would both have the same amount of proof.  This does not make either of us right or wrong, it just distracts from the topic at hand.

Anyway, I propose that the christian moral system is actually more primitive then an atheists morals.  Let me explain before you stop reading or bring up the idea that any number of people you have or have not met posses morals.  The idea that you do good because someone will slap you on the wrist when you do not is a simpler version of the religious view, but it possesses a similar quality.  The need to have something looking over in order to prevent evil, or the idea that if nothing was going to punish you later then there would be no reason to ever do good.  The moral atheist, on the other hand, does good in order to do good, not because they expect the action to be reinforced or the opposite action to later be punished by some higher power.

The key distinction is you believe people to be naturally evil and will only do good when forced or otherwise coerced to.  I believe that people are naturally mild mannered and do good to do good.  Or did you mean something else when you said, "if there is no belief in God, then there is no need for a belief in morals"?


On a slightly different point, the problem that many have with organised religion is each one believing that it is solely right, and because it is right they have the duty to impose every doctrine on others.  This defies what you yourself have stated was the greatest gift of god, choice.  I will not provide specific examples to this because I believe that these words are simple enough on their own, but if you require a certain number please state that and I will provide as such.

Chaos does not make anything. What you have said didn't did not sway from the fact that design requires a designer. That is simple logic. If logic does not count as proof then nothing has any proof.
When i said without God there is no need to believe in morals, I meant that if there is no supreme being to define right and wrong, then right and wrong do not exist. Therefore, atheists cannot 'do good to do good' because there is no such thing as 'good'. And we do not do right because we believe someone will slap us on the wrist, we do right because we know God loves us and since we love him, we will try not to do anything that would displease him.
I do not believe people to be naturally evil. In the beginning of time, everything was perfect including people. But people, us, chose to do evil, misuse the gift of free will that God gave us.
As for religion believing they are solely right, we are simply choosing a belief system. Contradictory ideas can't both be true. If someone is charged with murdering someone at a bar, and they say they could not have because they were at home at the time, and someone else says they were not at home, they can't both be true. There is only one truth. And because the evidence supports creation, I'm going with that viewpoint.

[Red Devil]

To me, that God lives is not a viewpoint but a fact.  It'd be the same thing as asking me if the sky is blue or if water is wet and trying to convince me otherwise.  I'm pretty good at listening to the viewpoints of others.  I am - as are you - also free to either accept or reject those viewpoints.

What I said applies equally to all viewpoints.  If you don't consider the fact that you could be wrong constantly then your own viewpoint is just as unjust.