Creating a plot for the 1.3 Community Project: Part 2

[Rocket]

hmm, i just thought, because the hadeans and the olympians, and the third cthonian race originally came from the planet where the scions crash on, it would mean that the cthonians living on the planet wouldn't need space suits, right? just an interesting point.

and, yes, character development can happen slowly, it's a little hard to follow everything in the story if they give a ton of characters to memorize, in FE it was good, they presented about 3 characters, and added and developed from there, if someone gives you 5-8 characters, it's going to be a harder to understand the characters, why they do things and to even remember who's who.

it all comes down to style of writing, and personal preference, some people like a quick to the point storyline, others like to take it slowly. and both happen in real life, and even using both ways in the same storyline can work too, but changing the pace can sometimes be confusing for the player, but that can be a tool in itself.

anyway, i like how the storyline(s) is coming out, very nice. BTW, if the hadeans have the huge scion engines from the ARK II, how would they EVER use them, and what would they even use them for?

[Angstromicus]

GHH's story has 5 votes for it but hasn't received much discussion. I'm nominating the story for removal from the possible plots.

[Mr X]

GHH's story has 5 votes for it but hasn't received much discussion. I'm nominating the story for removal from the possible plots.

I'd second that, I haven't even seen GHH on the forums for quite a while actually.

hmm, i just thought, because the hadeans and the olympians, and the third cthonian race originally came from the planet where the scions crash on, it would mean that the cthonians living on the planet wouldn't need space suits, right? just an interesting point.

No, its not the Cthonian homeworld, just the planet that the third faction colonised.

[Nielk1]

I am thinking we might go with Mr. X's time travel and Scrappool's major plot events.

I personally don't see how an FTL crash is going to cause time travel, and I personally like the portals more. What do you all think on this?

[sabrebattletank]

Also, I do like the model of the Ark III being a Police Box.

All jokes aside, it looks like the stories are coming along pretty swimmingly.

[ScrapPool]

I am thinking we might go with Mr. X's time travel and Scrappool's major plot events.

I personally don't see how an FTL crash is going to cause time travel, and I personally like the portals more. What do you all think on this?

Its really hard to explain...
"I have read that if one was travelling on a beam of light, that one would measure no elapse of time and no distance covered, no matter how far the observer on earth measured the light beam to go. but if the guy on the light beam measures no time elapsed and no distance travelled, how could he at the same time, measure the earth observer's clock to be going more slowly than his own, which has measured no time at all ?" ... "THat is the time dilation from his view for earth would be infinite." ... "How can the observer on the light beam see the earth move at the speed of light, when time dialated for him is infinite? For the beam it would take 0 seconds to travel from A to B. Of course it is physically impossible to observe from a beam of light." ... "Time does not exist for a photon, since it is travelling at the speed of light, and so it makes no sense to discuss how fast the photon sees the observer's clock to be moving."

Its really just a logical extension of the principle of time dilation. The asymptote of the time-dilation curve approaching infinity is at the speed of light.
Essentially, as you get closer and closer to the speed of light, time elapses slower and slower, until when you are traveling at the speed of light, time does not elapse at all.
By the normal laws of physics, it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate even a proton to the speed of light. Not practical. But if you circumvent those laws by bending the universe around the object you are "accelerating" to get it to achieve a "speed" which seems to an observer to be faster than light (really, you aren't moving at all.) via the Acclubiere Drive, what happens to you from the perspective of the observer?
One assumes that you experience negative time dilation- that is, dilation "past" the point when time does not pass at all (for a photon), essentially, back in time. This model is supported by physics of general relativity and examples of light reaching our eyes from stars far away (what would happen if you went faster than that light, at it?)

Re: realistic time travel.

[Nielk1]

The Acclubiere Drive causes a bubble inside which time is normal, and outside which time is normal, does it not? The only issue I can see causing time travel is the collapse and formation of the bubble. Though IIRC it is impossible to enter or exit the bubble or make one, it must have always existed, or some weird stuff like that.

Being science fiction, they make the bubble and collapse it, but how does the collapse of a space dilation wave cause time travel? And at that, wont the front and back of the wave cause opposing time travel if that did occur thus canceling each other out? I mean, one is a space 'expansion' and one is a space 'contraction' so how does this work? On that note, do we represent a space 'expansion' as a void that light moves around if it shows at all, and a space 'compression' as a liquid where light collects if it gets in at all?

I mainly like the time portals because in my mind I have drawn up an explanation for it I can understand, granted, we can literally have both.

[bb1]

I am sick of portals. TRO, BZ2, FE, potentially more, have used portals as a major plot device and I think it is time we give them a rest.

[Clavin12]

How about the ark III being designed to travel time? oh and I'll probably lose karma for this but _{If we didn't use time travel we wouldn't have to think over this problem  just saying!}

[bb1]

That's not a karma losing point, it's a damn fact 

[VSMIT]

How about the ark III being designed to travel time? oh and I'll probably lose karma for this but _{If we didn't use time travel we wouldn't have to think over this problem  just saying!}

Clavin, you're getting very tiring with your anti-time travel ideals.  Please stop.

[ScrapPool]

The Acclubiere Drive causes a bubble inside which time is normal, and outside which time is normal, does it not? The only issue I can see causing time travel is the collapse and formation of the bubble. Though IIRC it is impossible to enter or exit the bubble or make one, it must have always existed, or some weird stuff like that.

Being science fiction, they make the bubble and collapse it, but how does the collapse of a space dilation wave cause time travel? And at that, wont the front and back of the wave cause opposing time travel if that did occur thus canceling each other out? I mean, one is a space 'expansion' and one is a space 'contraction' so how does this work? On that note, do we represent a space 'expansion' as a void that light moves around if it shows at all, and a space 'compression' as a liquid where light collects if it gets in at all?

I mainly like the time portals because in my mind I have drawn up an explanation for it I can understand, granted, we can literally have both.

A. I agree. Time portals are easy to understand. They are also impossible and lead to inevitable credibility destroying "why didn't they just..." scenarios.

B. The time travel is not caused by the actual drive itself. Its caused by the fact that it is used to travel faster than light. One would never be able to see the ship while it was in warp, so the point of the warping of light around the expanding space behind the ship, although a cool idea, does not apply. If you watched the ARK III come out of warp, it would seem to pop into existence out of no-where, because no radiation is fast enough to contact it and reflect off.

As for the effects of the warping of space, like I said before, this has nothing to do with time travel, it is merely a "legal" way to accelerate mass to (apparently) faster than light speeds. There is no "front" or "back" of the warping of spacetime. (In addition, it is nowhere specified that nothing could enter or leave the bubble, only implied through logic, as as the bubble moves forward, it "makes room" for itelf from a singularity "pushing aside" the rest of the universe, but so fast that before relativistic or light-based mechanics could "notice" it. According to radiation based detection mechanisms, it was never there, and this is technically true, because the "ticks" of time (plank second) actually happen slower than the ship is traveling. O_o) That is a 2-D representation of a 3-D concept. In reality, inside the "bubble" nothing is happening at all. The drive moves space around the craft, pushing a small section of space along at faster than light. Imagine if you had a wind-up toy truck on a piece of paper. The truck could only go so fast because of its mechanical limitations. Now imaging that you cut a circle around the truck. You could then push the paper along (with the truck on it!) as fast as you like. If you happen to push it faster than the speed of light, then, well, when you come out the other end you will be "back in time" from the perspective of you departure point.

[Mr X]

Also, I do like the model of the Ark III being a Police Box.

Nah, it should be a delorian that time travels at 88 mph! And the guy who invented it should be Doctor Emmet! And the main character of the story should be Luitenant Mcfly.

Sorry all. I just had to get that out of my system.

I am sick of portals. TRO, BZ2, FE, potentially more, have used portals as a major plot device and I think it is time we give them a rest.

But they're the only beleiveable method of interstellar travel, even travelling at the speed of light or just short of it would take years just to travel to the nearest solar system to our own. And other galaxies allow you to be creative with the planets, not just the big rocks you get in our galaxy, which are boring and repetitive and I think we should give them a rest.

[bb1]

I'm still waiting for a gas giant map. Biometal tanks should have no problem flying on those. Really, though, portals are becoming common plot devices and are tired. Let's not make them a theme of BZ.

[Mr X]

No-one said that about hyperspace in star wars. I'm just saying.

I'm still waiting for a gas giant map. Biometal tanks should have no problem flying on those.

Biometal tanks hover, they need a solid mass to hover on. And where would you find biometal in a ball of gas? Not to mention actually being able to see...