I've been having trouble getting this model I made to work in the game. I originally made this in Cinema 4D, exported to .x format and (since x2xsi doesn't work for me) I copied the coordinates and stuff into an .xsi file. The layout of the xsi in notepad looks correct compared to all the other xsi's I've seen, and I can even get the model to open in Threed but, when ever I use it in the game, bz2 crashes.
Here's the error:
[ E X C E P T I O N ]
Patch 1.3pb3 EDITOR Aug 10 2006 08:26:12
Type: ERROR
SubType: FATAL - fatal error
Message: Too many vertices in a tri in: smship00.xsi
Module: .\meshread.cpp
Line#: 458
Stamp: Sun Mar 19 23:18:25 2006
CallStack:
7C812A5B +7C812A5B kernel32.dll [Unknown] [Unknown] [Unknown]
0054485A +00B2 bz2edit.exe system debug.obj void __cdecl Debug::Error::Err(char const *,...)
00568E87 +006E bz2edit.exe EXE void __fastcall ReadFaces(class std::istrstream *,struct MeshFeature &,bool)
00569306 +012A bz2edit.exe EXE void __fastcall ReadSINormals(class std::istrstream *,struct VectFeature &)
00569884 +0169 bz2edit.exe EXE bool __fastcall ReadMesh(class std::istrstream *,enum XFileToken &,class Mesh &)
0056A95F +00FA bz2edit.exe EXE bool __fastcall ReadMeshGroup(class std::istrstream *,enum XFileToken &,class Mesh &,class AnimKey *)
0056BE2B +0451 bz2edit.exe graphics meshread.obj public: static class MeshRoot * __fastcall Mesh::Manager::FindRead(char const *)
0056B9B5 +0059 bz2edit.exe graphics meshread.obj public: static class MeshRoot * __fastcall Mesh::Manager::FindRead(char const *,float,bool,bool,bool)
00496849 +0213 bz2edit.exe EXE GameObjectClass.obj public: __thiscall GameObjectClass::GameObjectClass(class GameObjectClass *,char *)
0047C68B +0019 bz2edit.exe EXE BuildingClass.obj public: __thiscall BuildingClass::BuildingClass(class BuildingClass *,char *)
0047CA73 +001C bz2edit.exe EXE BuildingClass.obj public: virtual class GameObjectClass * __thiscall BuildingClass::BuildClass(char *)
00462257 +0094 bz2edit.exe EXE EditObject.obj public: static void __fastcall EditObject::Command::Process(unsigned long)
005470EA +0018 bz2edit.exe utilsys varitem.obj public: void __thiscall VarSys::VarItem::TriggerCallBack(void)
0057AFB7 +0122 bz2edit.exe EXE bool __fastcall IFace::InputEventHandler(struct Event &)
0046E88B +0036 bz2edit.exe EXE MissionHandler.obj public: static void __fastcall MissionHandler::State::EditState::Process(void)
005501B0 +0130 bz2edit.exe main runcodes.obj public: void __thiscall RunCodes::Process(void)
0046C305 +000B bz2edit.exe EXE MissionHandler.obj public: static void __fastcall MissionHandler::Process(void)
0054FCB8 +004B bz2edit.exe main mainproc.obj public: static void __fastcall Main::MessagePump(void)
00458549 +0061 bz2edit.exe EXE void __cdecl AppStart(struct HINSTANCE__ *)
005D39D7 +0177 bz2edit.exe LIBCMT wincrt0.obj ___tmainCRTStartup
7C816FD7 +7C816FD7 kernel32.dll [Unknown] [Unknown] [Unknown]
Registers:
EAX: 02049510h CS: 0000001Bh DS: 00000023h
EBX: 00000000h EIP: 7C812A5Bh ES: 00000023h
ECX: 00000000h SS: 00000023h FS: 0000003Bh
EDX: 01D2F922h EBP: 02049560h GS: 00000000h
ESI: 02049590h ESP: 0204950Ch
EDI: 0B0FB808h
CF: 00200206h PF:0 AF:1 ZF:0 SF:0 OF:0
Entering critical shutdown
At the top it says something about too many verts in tris. I assume that means its getting hung up on 4 or 5 point polygons but, my model doesn't have any! I made sure to convert all polygons to triangles before exporting.
Does anyone know a solution or if this error is also a sign of something else?
Oh, and in the .xsi file, do the numbers of spaces between the left margin and the coordinates matter, or are those only there to make it easier to see the different sections?
how did u make the model? whats the poly count?
that happens when the ship has too many vertices - i usually get it around 900 - 1000 verts - try to keep models under 900 verts
I have also heard of this problem occurring if you have vertices very close together, but most modeling programs have a feature called "weld" that can fix the problem. At least its called weld in 3dsmax.
Vert and poly counts are pretty low, so that shouldn't be the problem.
Vertices:162
Polygons:316
Quote from: Spawn on March 10, 2008, 06:20:13 PM
I have also heard of this problem occurring if you have vertices very close together, but most modeling programs have a feature called "weld" that can fix the problem. At least its called weld in 3dsmax.
I might have left a copied vertex on top of its original. I'll look into that.
very curious - i guess this is what happens when you use different modelling programs
maybe try exporting it to 3ds (or any format that your program recognises) and re-import it into a new file
that sometimes fixes little problems which get ironed out during the export/import processes
"Too many vertices in a tri in:" is a common error, the exact reason is that in a mesh definition in the file, at the left of a face definition is the number of vertices that make it up, which must be less then two and times three less then 256, in other words:
((vertex count of any given face)-2)*3 must be less then 256
Or that above error will be thrown. Hence, BZ2 does support multi-vertex faces, and quite a lot of them actually, but you have a number that is too big. Most common reason, it is happening in one of the normals section of one of the mesh's in the xsi file, specifically instead of being something like "26;3;103,104,105;," it is something like "26;103,104,105;,", the left number in the normal's is the index, but the second is the count, and most do not put an index, but rather have the left most number be the vertex count with the index count not existing, where BZ2 requires it to have the index count on the left if the normals section is named "SI_MeshNormals", but can support the other method if it is instead named just "MeshNormals" or "XSIMeshNormals" (xsi 1.0 uses XSIMeshNormals where 1.1 uses SI_MeshNormals, and XSIMeshNormals is identical to MeshNormals, either can be used, but SI_MeshNormals obviously is not). If you let me see your xsi file I could probably find the reason. If it is because of the normal section being formatted without the index number then changing SI_MeshNormals to just XSIMeshNormals would probably work.
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Gah! attack of the run on sentence!
I think you need to clarify that first part because by my understanding you're saying a polygon can have around 87 vertices before causing an error. ((256/3)+2) How exactly can you exceed 256?
I tried just changing SI_MeshNormals to MeshNormals and still got the same error. Are there any other section titles I should also change? Like SI_MeshTextureCoords?
Edit: Ok I just tried changing SI_MeshTextureCoords to MeshTextureCoords and it works! :lol:
A bit big but it looks fairly good in game.
strange....
So just dropping SI_ did the trick to get it to work? Very cool little tidbit of info to remember. I guess specific formating is essential for the BZII engine or any other for that matter to work properly. I remember a while back when converting some ASC files to X via 3DEX I encountered some read errors trying to open the files in BZ2ME. Anyways I finally figured out that to get it to open; I ended having to add a top-level frame to get it work. I'm still amazed by how one little missing piece of information can create total chaos for the game engine, and hair pulling frustration for the modeler.
Yea, the texture area is the next most common. I know lots of little tips and tricks like that about the xsi files now.
And those are the things you have to put up with on such an ancient model format. :)
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You have no idea how many times people have come here in total agony because their models produce that error... this is massive... Any such tricks should be stickied for the masses...
-Av-
I only learned it recently. :)
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Stickied. But it looks like all these stickies on this board is causing quite the "overhead" :P. Doesn't look like any of the topics can be cleanly combined, though.
Edit:
It looks like Lizard's BZII mapping and Modding effect would be a nice place to put the info from the less active topics like the Gmax and mapmaking/pathing topic. But I don't want to make any moves yet because nobody's complained.
Perhaps having one sticky with links to all of the other useful things, but the useful things are unstickied so they can just float away?
Not to change the original topic, but this appears to be a good tread to list other related FAQ issues about other peeps having problems getting models into the game.
Problem: My model appears white with no texture. Why?
One Answer: Make sure to copy your texture file into the addon folder along with the XSI and ODF file.
Problem: My model appears wrongly oriented in the game from my original model as referenced from within my 3d modeling program. How can I correct this?
One Answer: The X Y Z pivot points need to be reset to 0 0 0 in your modeling program. Each 3d modeler has it's own method, but generally this is done by normalizing the axes rotation of the objects that make up the parts of your model. An example of this would be something like adding an object and then rotating it somehow. The original rotation was 0 0 0. After you rotated the object the rotation would be different due to the object rotation you performed, and then need to be reset via your 3d modelers editing tools. In Truespace products this is done by selecting the object, using the move object axes to the center of the object tool and then the normalize rotation tool.
Problem: My model appears kind of small in the game. How can I make it bigger?
One Answer: Open your models ODF file in a text editor like notepad, and add
geometryScale = 1.5 under the first group of text in the ODF file and save it.
Problem: After making changes to my model and restarting the game or map editor I don't see the changes I made to my model. How come?
One Answer: Open the binData folder in the BZII directory and delete the files in the folder, and restart the game/map editor. This will force BZII to recreate your model as a new .msh file and your revised model will appear with the changes you made.
These are just a few of the problems I encountered when I started modeling for BZII. I'm sure there are other problems I encountered as well, but can't remember at the moment. I guess if it's cool with the rest of the BZII gang I'll update this post again to help add to it's usefulness...BNG
Very nice, and the start of a Modding FAQ for sure...
-Av-
Problem: I converted an x file to xsi using x2xsi, but the resulting xsi shows no animation why?
One solution: Open the file in notepad and find the animation section (it's at the end of the file) in the x2xsi xsi file, and add SI_ to all of the AnimationKey entries, and then save the file again. For some reason x2xsi does not add this entry that the bz2 engine must need to see present in the file.
Example: change AnimationKey to SI_AnimationKey. If there are several entries then change them all.
Problem: I converted an x file to xsi using bz2me (threed), but there's no animation present why?
One solution: Use x2xsi to convert the same x file to xsi.
Note: Rename the bz2me xsi file to avoid overwriting the xs2xsi xsi.
Now open both files in winmerge. Then in the x2xsi xsi change all of the AnimationKey entries to SI_AnimationKey.
Now copy and paste this section to the end of the bz2me xsi file and save it. For some reason bz2me does not add this section to the xsi file it creates.
Problem: I converted an x file to xsi using x2xsi, but the texture of my model does not appear why?
One solution: I'm working on is to create 2 xsi files from the original x file one using x2xsi and the other with bz2me for the file conversions. I plan to try copying the texture section from the bz2me xsi to the proper section of the x2xsi xsi using winmerge to do the cut and paste operation. It's still a work in progress, but if it can be done with the animation section then it should be doable with the texture section as well.
For some reason x2xsi appears to write out the texture information incorrectly to the resulting xsi file. Bz2me, on the other hand, appears to correctly write out the texture information as seen in the bz2 map editor.
Problem: My XSI's won't save from BZ2ME properly, resulting in 0kb XSI files that don't work.
Solution: BZ2ME stumbles on textures sometimes, especially larger ones, rename texture file so it doesn't show in BZ2ME and its much more reliable. Just remember to rename it back after you are done.
Also for those interested, my tute on transplanting XSI's to compatible dummyroots using Threed is on Wiki now. Look up Slaor.
The problem with saving in BZ2ME is that the dummyroot can't have a texture.
And it doesn't like .bmps saved with photoshop.
Why one earth would anyone texture that? :-P
Also, what wiki?
Quote from: Slaor on September 13, 2008, 07:37:48 PM
Also for those interested, my tute on transplanting XSI's to compatible dummyroots using Threed is on Wiki now. Look up Slaor.
Umm, which wiki are you refering to?
The only wiki i know of is the one Nielk1 has running on www.bzcomplex.com (http://www.bzcomplex.com) however alot of old & afew newer tutorials are being hosted by www.bzcommand.com (http://www.bzcommand.com).
QuoteWhy one earth would anyone texture that?
Quite a few of the stock xsi, don't have dummy roots. Main_body is the first frame, save it with threed and everything past the texture goes away.
Its easy to wind up with a texture on the first frame with threed, you don't need to do it deliberately.
Problem: My assault tank treads won't work right when I load my model into the game why?
Solution: Check to make sure there are 2 underscore characters in like tractor_whatever__and h. I made the mistake of naming tractor_l__h as tractor_l_h and nothing with the track texture rotation would work right in the map editor afterwards.
Update: Refers to BZII version 1.2 as posted by BNG. Omitting the __h in 1.2 appears to crash the game if it's not present in the XSI model file. Note: Threed won't allow you to add this to the file, so use a text editor like notepad to add the __h to both tractor_l and tractor_ r. Tanks for the heads up on changes to 1.3 guys. I guess part of the confusion is that some people assume that 1.2 is dead or something and have a tedency to invalid otherwise valid information.
Comment: It would seem that in 1.2 if you exclude the __h in the tractor_l/r entry then the side effect appears to be that the track texture does not rotate, but becomes a non animated fixed texture. I noticed this when I made a service truck with standard tracks minus the __h thingy and when the unit moved no track motion was present at all.
Update: I made tracked model without __h in the tractor_l/_r part and 1.2 did not crash, so it would appear the extra entries are not really needed afterall.
Question: Doesn't 1.3 also use 1.2 assets with the __h entry? If this is the case then why do 1.2 assets make the __h invisible thingy visible in 1.3?
I was under the impression that tracks now as of 1.3 do not need __h, they will by invisible when building the unit if you do.
The game looks for frames with certain names like tractor_l.
A single _ is part of a name.
A double __ indicates the use of an effect and so is not a part of the name as such.
So tractor_l_h would not work as a track.
Just call them tractor_l (in 1.3 and above)
In 1.3 they show wrong in the interface windows if they have it set to __h too.
notepad > bz2ME
Problem: The pivot on my Y turret doesn't rotate on the center of the main_body object. What can I do to correct this?
Solution: Try moving hp_com_1 to the center of turret Y. and resave your model.
I found this necessary on my GT type assault tank as it pivoted off center and looked like it was hovering over the front side of the main_body part. After I moved the hp_com_1 object to the center of turret_y, resaved the X file again and prepped it in Threed overwriting the XSI file it used the centered hp_com_1 to pivot correctly...BNG.
musta been something in the higherarchy :)
Problem: The texture I applied to my model looks really dark in both Threed and the game then the texture looked like when I applied in the 3d modeling application. What can I do to make the texture more visible?
Solution: Try adjusting the luminance level in your 3d apps material editor, reapply the texture again to your model, and re save the model.
This was always a problem I encountered when viewing the X model in Threed. Most of the time I could hardly see the texture in the 3d window of Threed; usually I had to select wire frame to actual see much of anything. Then one day while playing around with the material editor of my 3d modeler I stumbled across the luminance control and increased the level to brighten up the texture quite a bit. Apparently, the default level while looking good in the modeler didn't usually look good at all in Threed and the game as well.
PS: I also noticed that when the default luminance is increased the result is a greater range of material colors overall. In Truespace for example; the default lum. level is always at the lowest setting, but increasing the level turns the default Grey material to a very bright White.
Strange, I always have the opposite problem, my models are glaringly white, unless I reduce the shineyness to something very low, like 0.
its the 3rd line that does the ugly reflection glint thing.
SI_Material {
0.700000;0.700000;0.700000;1.000000;;
0.000000; ---------------always comes out set to 200 for some reason.
I also just noticed that while in Threed while in the structure window you can click on the material edit thingy to change the default ambient color of black (a truly horrible default setting) and change it to white or some other brighter color and your model appears beautifully displayed as well. Unfortunately, there's no way to save the settings so you have to reset them every time you restart Threed. I guess you could just leave it open for as long as you need it with the changes in a effect. PS: The shininess setting in the material editor can also be adjusted too to make the material more flat/matte looking.
Threed = Crap.
SI_Material {
0.700000;0.700000;0.700000;1.000000;; << Ambient Color + Transparancy. R G B A values here. valid values are 1.0 - 0.0
0.000000; << Shineyness ...mm shiny...
Everybody realizes that Threed sucks, but what alternative utility is available? Would it be possible for someone with programming knowledge to tweak Threed a bit? I'm not talking about rewriting it from scratch, but rather changing a few parameters so that it can at least save an X file as it attempts to do already, but never does? I can understand not enabling the save as MSH thingy for obvious reasons too. Also, if Threed is such a piece of crap then people really should refrain from recommending it to new modelers as it seems to create more problems then solutions, but that's just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Besides that, perhaps a decent text editor would be a better recommendation to new modelers for editing XSI model files.
i THINK iyou can rename stuff in 3dex, cant remember though...
short of that, use notepad. what i tend to do is make changes in threed, save it as a different file (such as ivrecy_threeded.xsi) and open the original file in notepad, then copy in parts from the threeded file.
With how many parsers I have written the past year, I could make a parser (in C++, although I guess I could export it by dll to other languages...) to parse an XSI file correctly and fully with full error support if someone wanted to create another program for it. I do not have time for a full program, but making the parser would be exceedingly useful for anyone who does (good god I love my parsing tools).
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Is the code for Threed available pubicly? I know someone at work with some programming skills.
Problem: Threed absolut-a-too-da-lee refuses to load my X model file. What can I do to get it to load?
Solution: Check to see if any of your models objects are named, frame. Apparently, Threed seems to hate this object name; try changing the name of the object to something like, body or main_body prior to saving the model to the X format. I found this out recently (and sometime back) on another model; although I was clueless at that time. After I renamed the object name and re saved it again Threed happily loaded the model file for conversion to XSI. BNG.
QuoteIs the code for Threed available pubicly? I know someone at work with some programming skills.
A friend? keep it that way, don't ask him to do the impossible like making threed do things it was never intended to do, its a hack and bodge up, its not a moddeling program, it was never intended to be one. Its sole purpose is sticking bits of .xsi's together and its not very good at that. Program ended unexpectedly...
lmao. final sentence just made that.
Sadly, Threed is still pushed heavily up a steep hill by many users of this modding community. As a result many posts have originated listing workarounds due to the lack of any really decent XSI based alternative modeling tools. What's a bit ironic is that of the dozen or so 3d modeling packages I have on my system none even export XSI models at all. The few that do (XSI Mod Tool) export version 3.5 and above.
Let's face it BZII XSI is all but dead short of the handful of modders that frequent the dark and musky halls of this modding forum. Still, we post articles in the hopes that some newbie modelers might benefit from these little jewels of knowledge. OBTW, the alternative name of the afore mentioned piece of crap is called, Battle Zone 2 Model Editor. To be honest with you guys I think someone monkeyed around with the original BZ2ME to disable X and MSH file saving, and that's truly why Threed is such a piece of crap. Then again I really don't have a clue Mr Magoo...BNG.
Problem: When I make a model with tracks or wheels I always seem to have a great big gap between the main body and lower suspension section. What can I do to avoid this really big gap?
Solution: BZII, apparently adds this gap by default to separate the body from the suspension portion of the wheels or tracks, so you have to compensate when you construct your 3d model. To minimize the gap you can lower the main body part of your model in your 3d modeling program to sit either even or below the track wheel objects; it'll look a bit odd in the 3d modeler, but will have less of a gap when you load it into the map editor for testing. Just experiment back and forth until you get the gap that looks the best ingame. I noticed this recently when I compared one of my models with that of the ISDF Rock Tank. The main body actually sat within the track section object.
PS: You can also add hubcap objects to wheels by separating a portion from the outer wheel part, and gluing them under the tread l/r assemblies as an extra visual enhancement.
Normally you parent like mainbody/tractor/tread, the tractor part is the suspension and the mainbody will rise above it slightly, so it needs to be set into the body a little bit.
Do you suppose that recessing (indenting) this part of the main body would allow the suspension to sit lower resulting in less of a gap between the 2 components? In one model Ass. Tank I created side skirts extruded from the main body to form a sort of inverted well in which the track assembly resided. The result gave the appearance of semi hidden tracks from the side view anyways.
Indenting the mainbody would probably just create some more polys where they wont be seen.
Make the suspension so that the it appears to be a little bit inside the mainbody in your modeling prog, not exactly where you want it to be. Then when the model will rise to the correct position in game. How much it rises may depend on the units size/mass etc.
Apparently, creating recessed tracks does look pretty cool and gives the appearance of side armor like modern tanks use nowadays. I've started experimenting a bit with cylindrical wheels on a dune buggy twin gun type. I seem to be getting quite comfortable with these type of wheel/track units.
I may try making a sphere tank or two. Something similar to the old ball turrets of the 2nd world war era only this one will be chassis mounted complete with a gunner figure sitting in the position where the weapons would occupy. The sphere would surround the guy and be almost completely transparent so you could see him rotating around inside as it spins to engage the bad guys. I don't know why but I've developed a fetish for adding stuff like this to my models to add a bit more realism to them. Threed, works awesomely for making objects transparent using the material edit controls it supports. When I get a few done I'll release some for others to use freely. BNG.
QuoteThe sphere would surround the guy and be almost completely transparent
Transparency's can be tricky in game, notice how most stock units carefully don't allow you to see all the way through and out the other side, allot of in game stuff looks bad-n-buggy when viewed through transparency's. Also the transparent material setting does not work in low detail mode. Better effects may be achieved using alpha channels but care still needs to be taken in where you use them.
Other than lights nothing drags the game down faster than a transparency seen through a transparency... better to fake it than go overboard with transparent parts.
-Av-
Here's my first attempt at a dome type. It only has one transparent part an outter dome to show the gunner inside sitting behind the weapon. The opacity is set at 50%. I believe if transparent units are not over done then adding a few to the game is more of a plus then minus. A pat on the back would be nicer then a restating what I already know AV. BNG.
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So set the game to high detail, build a base and place 20 of those in front of it...
Just trying to help you not make mistakes that you will later regret doing, I was fairly distressed when I discovered I had to entirely rebuild the entire first generation of Daleks (and the second!) because parts of them started disappearing when they exercised their right to assemble in large numbers. :-D
I know what you mean about BZII really slowing down. I believe that part of the problem itself is related to the AI over build issue, and the older release date of the game with now out dated box specs for a PC based video game.
Again, I mostly play for my own gaming pleasure, and I suppose that with limited use of such transparent units wouldn't really present too much of an issue considering I have most of my performance settings set pretty low to begin with. Besides, transparency usage is already at least in part commonly used anyways by the game engine.
I very much like doing things a bit differently with my models. Tanks for the heads up on the frame rate issue, but part of the fun of playing BZII is customizing ingame stuff to my own personal tastes. For what it's worth I shared this modeling tip with others who feel the same way too. BNG.
Okay, so you've decided that you'd like to actually get a model into the game, but you don't know where to start. If your like me you never heard of a 3d modeling program before you decided to make some models for BZII. Also, you don't know what X Y Z means except that it's associated with A B C. Not to mention you don't have any mula to spend on those fancy modeling programs that everybody talks about, but most peeps can't afford on a meager budget. Well, fret not; there's both good news and unfortunately some bad news. The good news is there are quite a few free model making options available. The bad news is that many of them are too complicated for the average peep to figure out. What I'm about to disclose to you is highly secret and must not spread beyond the boundaries of the BZII modding community, so mums the word and lets get rolling....
For the money, the best overall 3d modeler I've come across is one called, Truespace 7.6. It's free, easy to use, and supports a version of X that can be easily converted to BZII XSI via a crappy, but very useful little utility called Threed aka BZ2ME. You'll also need another Windows based utility called Notepad to process your model files prior to converting them to BZII XSI. I start by describing how Truespace basically works and help you get your first model into the game. Nothing fancy just a bunch of cubes stuck together to make the infamous ISDF Sabre Tank; a relatively simple model to construct.
Okay, Truespace, is basically and drag and drop icon based 3d modeler apparently designed for peeps that don't have a clue what a nurbs curve is or how to make one for that matter. If you can click an icon then you already know the basic way to do stuff in TS 7.6. If you can left click and drag the mouse cursor then you already know how to make objects bigger and smaller, and move stuff around in the modeling work space. If you can right click then you just learned how to adjust setting and enter the edit mode in TS. Honestly, of all the icons in the modeler you'll probably only ever use a few of them to make all the model parts and stick them together to make a typical BZII model.
More to come as time allows, or if anybody is actually interested. Time is to valuable to waste for no reason at all.
Problem: You load your model into the map editor and parts of the model look kind of strange looking.
Solution: Check to make sure you delete unneeded hidden faces like those commonly seen in cockpit objects attached to model body frames. I discovered this recently when I separated a part of the model body to form the cockpit object and forgot to delete the faces left on both the cockpit and body objects. It looked pretty ugly ingame; I guess it's because of the relatively close distance between the 2 objects. You can delete faces in TS by right clicking an object to enter the edit mode, select the delete face icon and then using the mouse pointer to position over the desired face and left clicking the area. I'm not sure how this is done in other 3d modelers, but perhaps other peeps can post how it's done in their' modelers. BNG.
Question: How can I use Truespace 7.6 (aka TS 6.6 in disquise) to make my first model for BZII?
Answer: Start out with a simple model like the ivscout using a single body object and the required hp's, and flame_1__h parts.
Open TS, and click on the button that shows trueSpace6. This will change the workspace layout to TS 6.6. You'll need to identify a few icons for this modeling exercise. TS, is organized to maximize the use of icons for it's modeling tools and they're grouped together as menu bars in the workspace. Some are minimized and appear as tiny boxes that if left clicked will expand to a menu icon bar. They can also be expanded again by left clicking the minus symbols on the left side of the menu bar to show all of the icons grouped together. If the plus symbols are clicked again the bar minimizes again to clear the workspace area. Spend some time getting used to this feature as it will become useful later when we'll begin by adding a cube for our scouts main body. After learning a few key icons you'll start doing stuff really fast with repetition.
TS, also uses little text messages that appear when we hover the cursor arrow over the icons. Practice moving the cursor around the icons to find the one that says Cube. When you find it and left click to active the icon. Notice that your cursor now has a cube attached to it? Now move the cursor in to the workspace and left click an area to add the cube. Now right click the cube you just added to edit it directly. You'll notice a new menu icon bar appear in the workspace. This is where we can edit the cubes shape and do all sorts of cool things later on. For now though move your cursor away from the cube and right click to exit the edit mode. Notice, the blue and yellow box that surrounds your cube? This is just another tool that when you left click, hold and drag an area of it will move, resize, and rotate the cube in the workspace. Practice grabbing different areas of the cube to get used to moving and resizing the cube.
Notice the 3 pointed object near our cube? You can use this tool to rotate the cube by left click holding any of the 3 points to rotate the cube. Notice the little blue ball object near the 3 pointed object? Left click it to add rotational control points to the blue and yellow box that surrounds your cube. If you left click hold any of the rotational points you can rotate the cube as well. Practice using these controls to get comfortable with what they do.
Okay, so now we know the basics of how TS works and how to add a cube to the workspace. Now we're going to stretch the cube into more of a crude scout body add our hp's, and flame_1__h. To do this we need to stretch the cube. This can be done in 2 ways. The first is to use the blue and yellow box by grabbing it near a corner of the blue and yellow box, or by right clicking the object tool icon to bring up the object info box to manually enter the new size in meters. The default size in TS is 2 meters by 2 meters by 2 meters in the X Y and Z plane. You'll see these numbers in the object info window that pops up. Lets increase the size in Y from 2.000 to 6.000. and hit enter to make the cube longer.
Now we're going to make our hp's by using a new icon called the Add Polyline tool to draw out a 3 sided triangle. Locate the Add Polyline tool icon and left click it to activate it. Now move your cursor into the workspace and left click where you want to place the first point of your triangle, now reposition the cursor again and left click to place the second point. Notice that a line is added between the 2 points? Now to close the triangle right click the cursor to add the third side. Now locate the Convert NURBS Patch icon and left click it. This will make the object into a solid editable object. Now that we have our first hp point we can copy it using the Copy icon to make as many hp's as we need. I believe we need the following for our scout model: hp_com_1, hp_eyepoint, hp_gun_1, hp_gun_2, hp_rocket_1, and hp_special_1.
Now locate the icon for the Scene Editor and left click to open it up into the workspace. Now you can see a complete list of every object that you've created so far. To rename objects right click the object and select rename from the menu and rename the cube object something like scoutbodyz. Why add z at the end of the object name? Later in Notepad we're going to replace the z with a space character to get objects like the hp points to work properly for BZII. Now rename the triangles with the hp names listed above and add a z to the end of each object name.
Now we're going to make our flame_1__h object by right clicking the scoutbodyz object to enter into edit mode and and select one face to separate from the cube object. In the edit mode, left click the face you want to use for the flame_1__h part. Now locate the Separate Selected Part icon and click it to separate the object from the cube. Now select the new object in the Scene Editor and rename it flame_1__hz. The seperated flame_1__h one slight problem it's axes are not set to 0 0 0. How do we fix this? Select the part then left click the move axes to center of object icon, then click the normalize rotation icon. This will reset the rotation values correctly so that our flame points in the rearward direction in BZII. Did you notice the L symbol with x y z appearing on the flame object? Every model part has it's own axis. If you want to make them invisible then click the axes icon to hide them.
Basically, we have all the parts we need to assemble our simple scout model. Yes, I know it doesn't have a cockpit object and la la la, but you can add it later if you like, but I want to keep things as simple as possible for this exercise. :-P
Okay, so now we need to attach all the parts together in the Scene editor by adding the hp's and flame_1__h to the scoutbodyz. Left click and hold the first hp and drag it to the scoutbodyz object and release the button to place the hp object under the scoutbodyz object. Do this with all the other hp's and the flame_1__h object. Notice how a plus sign is added to the scoutbodyz object? This is called a basic model hierarchy, and essentially makes one single model from a bunch of different parts. If you left click the plus sign the tree expands to show the parts attached under the main body of the scout.
So far, we've assembled all our parts together to form the basic scout model. Now we're going to apply a UV map to our model. Locate the UV Mapping Editor icon and with your model selected click the icon. A new window will appear with a UV applied to the model. Now we're going to set TS up to open the UV map in MS Paint. To do this right click the UV Mapping Editor icon and then click the External editor button and in the window that opens locate the app by clicking the look in tab, C:>Windows,>System32>mspaint.exe and select open. Once we do this we're ready to export our UV map to MS Paint. To link to the external editor locate the Export Bitmap icon in the UV Map Editor window.
(http://rpiffq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pKyPNqeUEMPl1XgYf56MAshg-kQyhNJZRLLeqKnitGGBBTBU08bOi5saxuuWYIPljChyH_euw1oJLeVuWKSLqMCXieiPv1fWO/yellscoututuv.GIF)
Now while left click holding this icon a second icon called Send bitmap to external editor appears. Select this icon and in the Save as window box enter a name for our UV map and hit save. This will send the map to MS Paint where we can paint some stuff like some squiggly lines, etc. When your happy with what you've painted on the map hit file>save. Now when you return to TS your saved texture will automatically appear applied to our scout body.
(http://peq8dw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pnNfusXFG1JrWDy43tWis_IE0dtEpcDQEqdiwf2VhqaWL_RjjA1ahjY8Obxpy6185giVCssdYzqRLOMaycC9cq9kdHGKz2GF8/savescout.GIF)
Basically, our scout model is ready to be saved/exported as an X file. To do this click TS6 Files>Save as>Object, enter model name, save as type Directx. Now click the Settings button, put an x in the following boxes, Export Geometry, Triangulate all faces, Export textures, Inline material, and on the Convert resolution to bar change it to Closest 2^n size (BZII needs textures formatted this way) and then click OK. Now in the Look in bar locate your BZII Addon folder and hit Save. All of your models and props will need to be saved in the addon folder, so bZII can find them. I recommend that you create a sub folder in addon where all of your stuff in stored. It simplifies things and keeps all your stuff in one place for easier access when using apps like threed, 3DEX, etc. PS: The model name and ODF name should be the same, i.e., ivmyscout.x, ivmyscout.xsi, and ivmyscout.odf.
(http://peq8dw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pw5BUD7BaCWkCNw7VZAC0l9zP4XZFYD57bm0X58Wqm123qaeg1KJdqsGPgUYJ7p2d5KQMIaV75jVRgb2D3L_XZEE2gS_2T3u5/replacez.GIF)
(http://peq8dw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pRmayPMuL0WTKXcPnTlwBKRQLz1dC36GjYUxEY9sLJoKDjJVxAGnMx2t6-j4O6Ud2WMUas1rsrCWXtC9-5QtA6OW9nysydYtA/editodfivmyscout.GIF)
OK, so far we've made our model, made a basic model texture, applied it and saved the file to our BZII Addon folder. Now we need to open our model file in Notepad and replace the Z character from the end of the hp_ and flame_1__h object names so they'll actually work in BZII, and resave the file again. How do we do this? In Notepad, select Edit>Replace and in the top box type z and in the second box hit the sapcebar to add a space and then hit Rreplace All. This will place a space between every z it finds. This is critical as BZII reads hp's and certain other object names in a specific way. For example, hp_gun_1-1 will not be read correctly by BZII, but hp_gun_1 z will be read correctly. This oddity is a minor problem with how TS writes out an X file format in relation to how BZII needs to see it.
(http://peq8dw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pFUGe760SGRGtk53LQ-jAP3pSjpBJnXofB3WV_u5AuX_Ej4opffZnBBig_USNiZN_9so03tUOe39RGtQgR2yoVGyaZX6GnCgj/saveasxsi.GIF)
Now let's open the file in Threed and save it as XSI. Really there's only one other major task to do now and that's to open Pak Explorer, load data.pak>Objects>ISDF>vehicles>ivscout and double click>ivscout.odf. When it opens in Notepad, click save as and name it ivmyscout.odf and hit save. This will load our ODF file where we can change the geometryName = ivscout.xsi to your model files ivmyscout.xsi and save the file in your addon folder.
(http://peq8dw.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pauXqwfDSCP_-tjXq10mzblD8zsVs8sBCZcUPtjjixAfVFnsC-cFXH7Rgu7NsDpCZpUahayGTTjzXUtWDECkJvz2Ph2iYJQj_/saveasivmyscout.GIF)
Now we have all the required files to load our model into the BZII Map Editor by clicking ctrl e to open the editor, click Object and type in our models name under config Team = 1 for my team/ Team = 2 the bad guys, and hit enter. If everything was done correctly then our model will appear attached to our mouse cursor and we can left click an area in the map editor to place it on the map. If you selected team 1 then you should be able to command it to pickup you up. I usually place both a team 1 and team 2 unit in the map editor to see how they fight each other.
(http://rpiffq.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pdQJwGT2vt4l9oafKF8dSc9XMdxbwjNPYID_6bj4vLMhqTJC5fclHf_rKel81cFYuGdzadJhjH4_ZuvIMtlt4Q-XlTNMlYnaF/tutscout.GIF)
PS: If I've forgotten to mention something relavent or you have questions about this short tutorial feel free to post or PM me and I'll try to clarify the issue. BNG.
I followed your instructions step by step and I still couldn't find the model in the editor.
Did you save the XSI file to your addon folder?
Did you edit the ODF file and save it to your addon folder? These 2 files are used by BZII to make a MSH file that is created in the bin data folder when you first start the BZII map editor.
Could you be a bit more specific about what you mean by "...still can't find the model in the editor?" Were you actually in the map editor or did you just start BZII?
The process described in my post is the same one that I use to get my models into BZII. I'm assuming that you know how to start the BZII map editor as you say this in your post. Is this correct?
When you select the object button in the map editor and type in your models name in the config box and hit enter what happens?
I did
I did
I am using the editor
I thought i did
Thats probly my problem
When you make the hardpoints in Truespace to they just look like 2d triangles? and which way does the gun point? what do eyepoint and com1 do? How do you make a cockpit? You don't mention where you put the hardpoints.
Srry about all the questions but i'm going to make a mod so i have to know.
Normally people use little pyramids for hardpoints, they have the lowest poly count, the shape does not really matter. Weapons will fire from its axis wherever you decide to place them
hp_eyepoint is the point that the pilot views from, the model will not work in bz2 without one.
hp_com is where the select/target reticle will point to and where the AI will shoot at.
A cockpit is a separate model from the ship, referenced in the ships odf file if it has a cockpit.
So you could place hp_com outside the ship a little ways and make it impossible to hit by AI?
Depending on the angle. They could get lucky.
Yes the hp triangles are 2d objects with 2 faces to cut down on the poly count. Just make sure the rotational values read 0 0 0 otherwise your hp's will do strange things like make your weapons fire in the wrong direction and do other odd stuff. You can check these values in TS by selecting the hp and right clicking object tool icon to open the info window to see the numbers for rotation.
Really, every part's rotation should be set/reset 0 0 0 prior to exporting the X file from TS.
I followed the tut and only found one potential issue involving the flame_1__h part. In TS when you separate this part the rotation needs to be reset to 0 0 0 otherhwise the flame points in the wrong direction, but it loaded without crashing BZII.
Potential, another issue to look at is when saving the ODF file make sure Notepad doesn't add .txt at the end of myscout.odf.txt. It needs to read as myscout.odf
On my version of NP I first select all files in the save as type and not Text Documents. This itself will probably create a prob with BZII itself. As I mentioned earlier a missing cockpit object will not crash BZII.
PS: I'm attempting to send you a sample scout model I made a while back along with the TS SCN file, XSI converted file and the associated ODF file. Will do as time allows...BNG.
HP's are nothing in BZ2, their mesh is never even loaded. The only thing that matters to an HP is the FrameTransformationMatrix as it defines the position and orientation of the HP. If you program supports creating a frame without any points, you could easily go that route.
(http://www.overminddl1.com/image_scripts/image_sig.php?type=ODL1signitures&image/sig.gif)
Generated by OvermindDL1's Signature Auto-Add Script (http://overminddl1.com) via GreaseMonkey (http://greasemonkey.mozdev.org/)
Which is why when I have emit hps for draw geoms they look like the drawn geom in the model. It lets me see it out of game while not messing up in game.
I updated my Truespace tutorial with some pics and edited the content a bit. Hopefully, it will help other modders appreciate the power of such a simple to use 3d modeling application. BNG
Having my own set of problems right now =|
Was tasked with creating a structure for the game, the model editor loads it up just fine. But BZ2 Crashes out when I try to put it into the game.
Error message is pretty confusing to me, so I'll post it up. It's similiar to what was listed in the first post here - but there's details added on that have me baffled. This is my first time working with XSI files and such, so I'm completely new.
I've included the last bit of the log file, perhaps someone here can find something - I did use Overmind's Blender XSI Exporter and at least two people I've talked to think the exporter might be screwing something up, but I don't know anyone who use's Blender for modeling and is able to export using this XSI Exporter (The XSI in Blender that comes with it is an updated version, which BZ2 seems to HATE)
Pay special attention to what is listed after the "Too many vertices in a tri in: ShieldGen.xsi", that is what I'm getting confused on.. and wondering how THAT is possible.
DIAG| runcodes:154 |14:40:59|27426 |[Edit] Entering run code [object]
DIAG| meshread:2146 |14:41:12|40915 |Missing binary mesh ShieldGen.xsi, use XSI
DIAG| meshread:2157 |14:41:12|40915 |Building ShieldGen .msh
DIAG| iconsole:530 |14:41:12|40916 |[CONSOLE] Building ShieldGen .msh (Remember to copy to MOD distribution!)
ERR | bitmap:1313 |14:41:12|40926 |Can't load texture [MTex (Material)].pic.
DIAG| ParameterDB:208 |14:41:12|40926 |Last few opened ODFs:
DIAG| ParameterDB:213 |14:41:12|40926 | 1 : ShieldGen.odf
DIAG| ParameterDB:213 |14:41:12|40926 | 2 : InsanityPre.TRN
DIAG| ParameterDB:213 |14:41:12|40926 | 3 : shieldeffect.odf
ERR | debug:715 |14:41:12|40926 |.\meshread.cpp(444)
ERR | debug:716 |14:41:12|40926 |Mon Jun 15 17:15:08 2009
ERR | debug:717 |14:41:12|40926 |Too many vertices in a tri in: ShieldGen.xsi (count = -6, MAX_FACE_INDEX = 256)
DIAG| DXUT:1516 |14:41:14|43124 | DXUT pause on minimize
ERR | log:1784 |14:41:17|45660 |abort() requested from '.\debug.cpp':730
DIAG| log:1785 |14:41:17|45661 |End of line...
ERR | ExceptionHandler:243 |14:41:18|46824 |---- Battlezone II Log File ----
Which version of BZ2 are you using?
1.3 PB5.1 increases the maximum vertice count by a lot.
In previous patches, the most you could have was around 1000.
It's spazzing out due to the missing texture it looks. A model CANNOT point to a nonexistant texture.
Quote from: Warfreak on October 25, 2009, 04:26:29 PM
It's spazzing out due to the missing texture it looks. A model CANNOT point to a nonexistant texture.
Yes, yes you can.
Quote from: bigbadbogie on October 25, 2009, 04:25:24 PM
In previous patches, the most you could have was around 1000.
In previous patches, the max number of polys was 2730&2/3.
Quote from: bigbadbogie on October 25, 2009, 04:25:24 PM
Which version of BZ2 are you using?
1.3 PB5.1 increases the maximum vertice count by a lot.
In previous patches, the most you could have was around 1000.
I'm currently using the latest public build.
And the model DOES have textures on it (generic textures from Blender itself, but textures none-the-less) though I did try it without the textures, results were the same both ways.
So, any other idea's here? =(
I mean, if it's needed, I can always hand the XSI off to someone and they can figure out if something isn't right in the file. (I'd post the contents of the XSI here, but there's a char limit)
The only problem that it could possibly be is that the model has too many vertices.
Simple.
The first structure I tried had close to 19k vertices (this was the intended structure)
The second structure I tried had only 10 vertices :P
So I have to question whether it's the vertices that are causing the issue.
It is probably your conversion process/export that is going wrong, I have not used blender myself, so I cannot help much with that, but I have seen this error before, and it is usually exactly what it says. The vertex coordinates listed in the xsi do not add up to what it was expecting to find.
example
Mesh plant {
6;
0;0;0;,
-0.07975;1.5;0.362;,
-0.2;0;0.2;,
0;0;0;,
0.2;0;0.2;,
-0.07975;1.5;0.362;;
The first numeric value 6; defines the number of entry's below it, these coordinates define the vetices of the mesh. So if there are more than 6 entrys before ;; ends the sequence you will get that error.
You broke it...try again. :-D
If you're using any patch pre-PB5.1, the maximum number of verticies you can have is 8192. PB5.1 can use up to 60k verticies.
8192? The game crashed for me at just over 900 verts!!
Thanks, as I have said though, I'm using 1.3 Public Beta 5.1 currently.
I have tried exporting it a couple more times, I even attempted it after starting the system back up - all have met with the same error message. I guess I'll give it another go, this time with just a four vertice object.
*sigh*
Experimenting, gotta love it... wish I knew where overmind was so he could comment.
The previous limit wasnt 8192 at all, it was 2730. (Taken from GSH's post about PB5.1's release. The new limit is 20K as well, not 60K.
Open the xsi in notepad2, see if the mesh has the right amount of lines in it.
If not then you probably are needing to optimise the model before you export it.
I don't know how this translates into blender jargon...
Quote from: TheJamsh on October 26, 2009, 04:15:10 AM
The previous limit wasnt 8192 at all, it was 2730. (Taken from GSH's post about PB5.1's release. The new limit is 20K as well, not 60K.
The limit was 8192
verticies. When I use a term, I mean what I say. The old poly limit was 2730&2/3 polys, because each poly is separated from the others (i.e.: no shared verticies) when xsis are compiled to msh.
Trust me, I was one of the ones who helped GSH test the new poly limit...
I've experienced this too many tris error before as well mostly when trying to use an X model that's been triangulated prior to saving it and placed in the map editor. I don't think the issue is related with the model having too many triangles though. How are you making your models and how are you converting them to XSI?
I read wrong, NVM
Quote from: BNG Da BZ Fool on October 29, 2009, 12:37:50 PM
I've experienced this too many tris error before as well mostly when trying to use an X model that's been triangulated prior to saving it and placed in the map editor. I don't think the issue is related with the model having too many triangles though. How are you making your models and how are you converting them to XSI?
3DS Max 7 with the XSI exporter.