Battlezone Universe

I've had vets yell at me for saying this is unreasonable.  Other players seem to have the same feelings.  I want to see how the majority of the community feels regarding this issue.

Considering that the upped full scout has no change in price, I'd say that the empties be that way too, or at least just go up to 30 scrap.

The main reasons I feel it is unreasonable.

1.  You lose two hardpoints (Rocket and Special)
2.  They come built without pilots

#1 is the main reason since you can always build a training facility next to the recycler.

If you vote yes or no, state your reasons for the answers you provided.

Yes it will be good that upgraded empt scout cost 30 or 40, Im more for abaut 30, and it got olny weapon, full scout-60 got 2 banks and 1 special.

yeah but you have to balance it out for the scions too. i like it how it is actually. i wish more there could be something done about defense from the bomber on the scions behalf cause the bomber is a scion killer. archers are useless cause one single tank on a suicide run kills archers too easy.
jammers are not very effective.

1. Cost should be 45 for a customized Empty Scout.

2. If you're down to no pools, but you have an Armory/Stronghold, you can't build a customized Empty or a customized Full Scout anyways.

3. Having a customized Empty Scout cost less than a Full Scout might lead to players building a bunch of cheap units with chain if they have a TF.

I built an AA Archer that works pretty good against Bombers.

Seems Scions should have a TF too.

archers with popgun mortar are effective against bombers

I always thought that the normal scout with a pilot was too expensive at 50
i would make it 40 - oh thats right .. i did

i think the bz1 pilots system should be brought back in pb4 with limited pilots until you build a training facility/ new scion barracks

then the empty scout would be less expensive in this area rather than scrap...(but still a bit of scrap for missing HPs and weapons)

Differences about balance are precisely what recy variants are for. Support for this has been around quite a while. Some people still demand that things be handed to them on a silver platter.

For the record: the number of recy variants I've rejected so far can be counted on one hand. After amputation.

-- GSH

If there is enough demand for a cheaper empty scout, I'll make a variant and submit it to you GSH.

Have you even rejected any recycler variants?

I say 40 at the VERY most. It would cost that much anyways for the player to simply drop the chains or laser powerup. In fact, if the commander has only 1 upgraded pool, then its often better for him to milk the upgrade for its time. Lets take the scenario

To get to 20 scrap twice on 1 upgraded pool (20 for empty, 20 for powerup) costs 20 seconds
To get to 40 scrap (upgraded empty) on 1 upgraded pool + 1 normal pool costs 30 seconds
To get to 40 scrap (upgraded empty) on 2 normal pools costs 40 seconds

In other words, with an upgrade -- the commander saves time by building the empty and weapon separately even if the empty only costs 40 scrap.

45 scrap is way too high for a customized empty, nobody in their right mind would upgrade their scouts because in addition to the 35 seconds it would take to build an 'upgraded' empty vs the 20 seconds to upgrade it manually it would simply not be worth it to build upgraded empties. The commander would just build fulls instead.

Yeah, I think it should be either 30 or 35.  35 at the most.

A price of 30 would be consistent with other units, but it may be too cheap.

I was going to say 40 at first, then switched to 50, then compromised at 45.  To get 40 with just your Recycler, it would take 120 seconds, so, yeah, 40 sounds good.

I accidentally voted NO... thought the question was asking it it WAS reasonable...

A Scout costs 50 scrap. If you mod it, it still costs 50.

Why should an Empty Scout that has NO rocket slot cost three times as much, just to change the gun?

It's UNFAIR.

I agree, it lacks both a rocket and a special and still costs the same as a full scout.

why not put in a system that adds the price of the selected weapon to the total of the empty scout, and everything else for that matter. It is kind of dumb having a weaker weapon or a stronger weapon which would cost a different price chosen to add to a unit and them both costing the same amount.

i know GSH (silver platter) im only suggesting

Quote from: Ego - Nikolas on November 06, 2007, 04:05:23 PM
Yes it will be good that upgraded empt scout cost 30 or 40, Im more for abaut 30, and it got olny weapon, full scout-60 got 2 banks and 1 special.

dejavo

40 sounds good to me, same cost as an empty and a gun, then commanders who like being hyperactive can upgrade extractor and gain extra cost/time benefit from not reconfiguring in recy.
I am just so glad to be free of the weapon config bug, all that hopping in and out of the rec to save 20 scrap drives me mad.

What bug was that?

Thats the bug where you buy an unupgraded unit for a cheap cost and then upgrade it in the rec/fac while its building and get the upgrades for the same price as an unupgraded unit. IE: Blast tanks for 55 scrap

Also referred to as cheap scouts, cheap tanks, or cheapies.

Quoteget the upgrades for the same price as an unupgraded unit. IE: Blast tanks for 55 scrap.

I believe that exploit bug was fixed awhile back for the 1.3 patch.

40 is a great price, i dont think it would break the balance between race either. Although Scions will always be looking for a full scout because of the shield and blink, i can easily see myself making a quill empty or 2 at 40 scrap when isdf have the chains out just to stay in touch with the pools.

bump bump ba dadadadadada

i vote for between 40-50

i sware the smartest way is to just add a system that adds the total of the selected weapon the the value of the ship...that will settle this argument - forever

Quote from: bigbadbogie on November 27, 2007, 04:46:31 PM
i sware the smartest way is to just add a system that adds the total of the selected weapon the the value of the ship...that will settle this argument - forever

Agreed, so get to it.

lol

35, because if it was to be 40 or any more, nobody would use it.
first of all its even more expensive then simply dropping weapons, why bother then?
(in bz2 40 mostly costs more time then 2x20)
2nd because it would be a pain in the ass, say u need a laserscout and u have upgraded your emptys to chainscouts, u gotta get back in the rec again to change it, while if u didnt upgrade the scout u could just drop the laser and build the empty while u are fighting in the field, so not worth it if it costs even more.

cheers

-1 on NO
+1 on YES


misread poll question. Mistake :P

So as of right now.

18 Yes
3 No

I say go ahead and do it. We can always adjust it afterwards too.

As I said earlier, just make it yet another recy variant -- something that could have been done years ago. People who can't lift a finger to implement what they want, but just want to whine won't get their changes as the default.

-- GSH

Quote from: Killer AK on December 10, 2007, 06:25:03 AM
If you drop the scrap too much for a modifyed scout. They can build a bunch of them and drive them to a training center and put pilots in them.
Scions as far as i know doesn't have a training center.
Becareful.

I have used chained AI empties in 1.2 though, to hit pools once I get a blast tank (my tank pilot hops in the scout), I sometimes send them to hit pools while I am dogfighting or attacking the enemy base. If the AI empty is found by a human though, its a guaranteed death since they do such a poor job at defending themselves.

I've also tried building an army of empties in 1.2, with the training center built right next to the recycler. AI empty scouts are really poor fighters, and the training center pilots dont go for them unless you jump into them first. Its not worth it because every other unit on the field can totally obliterate an AI scout, and it takes too much recy time to build such a weak unit.

Back in pb1 with G66, I often positioned my training center to be near the Recycler so that I could build Empties and have pilots occupy them quickly. This way, I could give them over to my thugs when they lost their vehicles. Was especially usefull on maps that had the Destroyer and Ghoul available.

Quote from: Sonic on December 13, 2007, 05:09:14 AM
Back in pb1 with G66, I often positioned my training center to be near the Recycler so that I could build Empties and have pilots occupy them quickly. This way, I could give them over to my thugs when they lost their vehicles. Was especially usefull on maps that had the Destroyer and Ghoul available.

Never thought of that before...

I intentionally place my training facility next to my recycler for that very reason.  Not to overbuild on empties, but to ensure they are piloted so one can pick me up.