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Math is the perfect language, the ultimate expression of reality, the purest music in the universe.

We speak it with a terrible lisp, though... 
We are blinded, and have but the dimmest glimpse of true reality... 
We are tone deaf and can only imagine we understand how pure and beautiful the music of the spheres truly is...

Our understanding of the universe, especially the mathematics of it, is crude at best.  We're just infants looking out of our cribs at the wonder that is reality.

The true shame is that we think we know it all.  We have such confidence in our world view, and of course anything or anyone that contradicts it is heretical. 

It's always been this way.  Right now there are those among us rising to defend our paltry knowledge...  but anyone who's studied history will see that every year something new is learned, and something thought to be unshakeable truth is shaken to bits...

-Av-

I was never able to get a textured .x object to work, period, which is sortof why I made X2XSI...  BZ2 uses .x objects for very simple things, like the 'scrap field' marker and such...  I can't remember offhand if any of the stock .x's are even textured.

It'd be nice to know if BZ2 will even show the texture for a straight .X object before spending major time on getting them to work.

-Av-

BZ1 scrap does disappear when you reach the engine's limit, but that's a coding issue...   I like it that BZ2's scrap disappears after time because it does support the idea that something interesting may be going on with it...  but let me point out that it disappears on Bane, and Rend, and Mire, and Core, all of which have pools.  None of the BZ1 'worlds' had pools that we know of, so maybe it's not the scrap that's disappearing...  maybe the world in question, one already 'infected' with pools, is doing the absorbing. 



-Av-

You can even DO that?

In Max you create a multi-texture material by assigning two textures and the opacity for each.  This is in addition to all the other textures used to define opacity, reflectivity, bump, etc..   I can't imagine the game engine that would take ALL of that into account, and don't blame them for using a single texture per poly.

As said above, use one texture for each individual piece of your object and you should be fine.

-Av-

Wouldn't this imply that meteors are able to leave silver, "pure" biometal and that the form we see in BZ2 is the very form we found it in here on Earth? (Melted scrap)

Hey, that's good...  I hadn't thought of that and I needed to.   

Perhaps it is charging biometal with electricity that makes it reflect gravitons. Interestingly, this means biometal could be put into its own reaction where it converts itself into energy, thus charging the remaining mass and defying gravity until the point it is used up.

I think such a thing quickly becomes a runaway reaction cough*DAYWRECKER*cough...

Pity whoever figured that out first...   

-Av-

From the FM 6-1201-309-62, The National Security Agency Field Manual:

A Memorandum from President Dwight D Eisenhower to General George Collins, regarding the establishment of the National Space Defense Force (NSDF):

We've established a research facility in Nevada in order to investigate this "bio-metal".  The results of these efforts are astounding.  The material itself remains a complete mystery, but we have manged to fabricate some promising munitions from it.  It seems that the biological element fo the metal contains some sort of memory that allows it to reshape itself into it's previous form.

and a missive from Andrew Goldman, NSDF, to President Dwight D Eisenhower  regarding Astronomical Research Assessment 3750.

Per your request we have completed an assessment of the debris found in the Bering Straight meteor shower of 1952.  The samples found are most definitely the result of otherworldly sentient manufacture, and are known to be only a small portion of the quantity that has passed through our solar system over the last several years.  The source of the debris is assumed to have been some sort of cataclysmic event involving a massive alien structure, possibly the size of Earth or larger.  Estimates based on the velocity of the meteor shower at impact and the apparent duration since the meteor fragments were formed put the source object in the order of 100 trillion kilometers away when it shattered.  At htis distance, it is likely that bio-metal fragments have passed within the gravitational pull of every other planet in the solar system.


Now, later on it mentions the EDD (equally distributing damage) armor and gives thicknesses for the various craft.  Nowhere that I can find does it mention that the vehicles hover, which is something I would think they'd spend some time on...

Later on you get into specifics about the Recycler and Factory:

NSDF TU11 Mobile Bio-Metal Fabricator:

The Recycler builds vital base resources and unit supplies, as well as basic offensive and defensive units.  It does this by projecting ultra-lightweight endo-skeletal beams inside of its construction bay while generating extreme temperatures that melt its supply of bio-metal.  It then coats the beams with the liquid bio-metal, and holds the new unit's engines and internal machinery in place while the bio-metal cools.  The entire process takes seconds.

Now, "endo-skeletal" means "outside the body", basically, which is strange as biometal craft seem to be more like 'bubbles', looking more like a shell without frame or supports.  I always envisioned it more like one generic frame with engines and hardpoints, over which liquid biometal is sprayed.  As it's sprayed the 'memory' kicks in, and it takes on one of the shapes stored in the Production Unit.  Lol, maybe a Recy is so large because of all of those giant reel-to-reel tape drives used for early computers...   

So, as the first exerpt states, the physical properties of biometal are mysterious.  We've seen a lot of biometal lying around, and doing various things, so we should be able to come up with a list of properties of our own.

First of all, biometal isn't naturally 'anti-gravitic'.  If that were the case it would just float off into space...  but what we see is biometal lying around on the ground like normal scrap metal.  We also have vehicles that sit on the ground when not piloted, and some that are so large and dense that they can't hover at all.  So, activated biometal can hover, but it seems to be more of a repulsive type of energy than true anti-gravity.   I actually prefer to think of it as just not really caring much about what gravity wants right now, thank you...     

We also have evidence that biometal can very easily be turned into energy, and vice versa.  Everything from the Flash Cannon to the 'tele-transport' of biometal from BZ2 Scavs/BZ1 Silos to and between Production Units, to the Blink weapon used by the Scions, seems to show that to biometal there's not much difference between energy and matter.

And, any good Doctor Who fan knows that when unlimited energy and gravity manipulation meet it seems that dimensional rifts aren't far behind.      The TRO Portal and Cloak both mess with other dimensions to transport the player, either to another Portal or just 'shifted' enough to cloak them. 

Finally, the way biometal explodes when structural integrity is lost is part of the 'EDD' mentioned.  This ability to distribute damage evenly is very strange, but more interesting is the indication that there's a threshold of thickness below which biometal can't maintain its 'remembered' form.  This may indicate that biometal 'memory', and possibly sentience, is a function of mass, such that smaller forms can't reach sentience beyond a certain amount.  For example, Furies may be the smallest intelligent biometal 'life forms' and as such may not be the brightest critters...      Something like CORE, however, could be a vast intelligence due to the incredible mass involved.

I'd also like to point out some things about scrap and pools...

In BZ1 most of the scrap you run into is 'painted' as if it all comes from human craft.  This is true even of the scrap found on Mars that supposedly came from the Hephestus thousands of years ago.

This leads me to think either:

1. The scrap we find is 'mimicing' markings on other forms it's been exposed to, such as CCA or NSDF ships.
2. The scrap we find is what's left of human forces that have already been fighting wherever we are, which I sortof like as it adds to the 'cyclical nature' of the story.  (find old biometal, make new war machines, leave new scrap) 

The first one is interesting, though, as it would mean that even scrap has a low level of intelligence, or intinctive reaction, and is aware of it's surroundings to some extent.

It could also be that BZ2 scrap is a silver blob because the weapons are more powerful, creating enough heat to eliminate any markings.   This could mean that the weaker weapons in BZ1, which weren't powerful enough to melt the scrap, are the reason there's no pools...   it could be that only the silver blob scrap eventually forms pools, such that more advanced races with stronger weapons ends up creating biometal pools.

These pools seem (to me at least) to escelate the fighting, as they give you an undending resource to make more units from, at a fixed location that focuses the fighting. 

These pools could also be the first stage of a planet being turned into something like Miasma, meaning Miasma was the scene of some heavy biometal fighting some time in the distant past.

Lots to think about for a simple computer game... 

-Av-

I cannot actually recall having seen animated trees in any game at all.

Ghost Recon.  Absolutely screwed up my ususal 'if it moves, and it's not us, shoot it' methodology of playing...   

Animated trees can be done simply by making them "powerplant" class...  which I find very ironic.  (get it, power plant?)   Now, if you make them 'wave in the wind' that means you can't spin them randomly to make them look more natural.  You can't have wind blowing one tree one direction and the tree next to it another, right?

You also end up with them all moving in snyc, which is cool for some types of plants but a whole forest?  Ack...  they end up looking like an old cartoon...

To avoid all of this you end up making a bunch of variations, to have different orientations but all moving and blowing the same way, but at different times.  A hundred of these will drag pretty much any system down, especially if you do it with vertex animations...

Still, computers get faster every year... 

-Av-

This is sounding like it went off topic, this thread is not about modding in Bz or Bz2 1.3 patch.

Hmmm, I don't see the last few posts about modding in the BZ or BZ2 engine, but rather a discussion about how different it would be if you were to move to another engine such as Unreal.  I think many of us are only modding BZ2 because we know it, and it's very mod friendly. 

I would happily get involved in this. I would love to make my mod in the unreal engine, but unless BZ2 goes over in the first place thats going to take even longer.

However, if someone wants to get started on a project like this count me in.

I think what's needed first is a coder.  If someone could code up a framework for Unreal that supported the core requirements of a BZ type game there'd be sure to be modelers, effects people, texture artists and code tweakers that would flesh out the game.

Sounds simple, but creating such a framework is where the real work is...  I'd imagine something like the command reticule would be a real challenge...

-Av-

If you're using 1.3 it does check to see if the XSI is newer than the MSH, and builds a new MSH if that's true.

This does NOT hold true for all of the XSI's used in a complex model, for example if you make a new strafe animation but don't change any of the other anims you will still need to manually delete the MSH file to get the engine to build a new one.

-Av-

Why redo Battlezone 1 in any engine?  No offense to Avatar but why o why would the community convert it to another game engine.
If this Unreal engine is so good please don't even consider wasting time putting some old worn out game onto it. Build Battlezone III for Christs sake!

I don't take any offense to that, and have said pretty much the same thing over and over.  I've started many discussions about 'the perfect BZ type game', hoping to spark interest and get a blueprint out that someone might take to heart.

BZC started as just my hobby making the BZ1 ships and buildings, and only when BZ2's engine continued to become more and more mod friendly did my interest in making a full blown BZ1 conversion to the BZ2 engine become solid.  It would be very different if I didn't have a ready-made compatible engine all ready to accept a few more models and some minor coding.


If I were to dive into the Unreal Engine to make a BZ type game it would be from the ground up, and I'd implement some ideas of my own along the way.  It'd be so freeing to NOT be locked into an existing gameplay model and be able to push the game to new heights.

-Av-

So...

The Engine Gods have dropped an awesome gift on the world, and here's a board just chock full of modders, modelers, and coders...  who love a couple of obscure hybrid FPS/RTS games that started with a 70's muscle car racing game...

Well?

You're still sitting there???

Lol...

-Av-

Their pathing has changed back and forth depending on the patch version, but they're always been able to wander around underwater without issue.

I remember the first time a herd of Maulers came out of the ocean in Sea_battle  and attacked my base...   a total WTF moment... 

-Av-

My understanding is that all models end up triangulated in the end no matter what format they're originally created in OR fed to the renderer in.

That being said there's no real reason to triangulate faces before UV mapping, or unwrapping the UV coordinates to align the textures.  What's more important is the order and type of modifiers you apply to the texture coordinates when you're manipulating them.

You WILL find that hidden edges will do weird, warpy things IF you just drag the texture coordinates around at will.  It' s better to apply the initial mapping in proportion to the applied texture, and then stick to scale, rotate, and flip when adjusting the coordinates.  This can mean things don't fit exactly as you want them too, but it makes sure that no warpage occurs.

And, as always, keep it as simple as you can.  Don't go nuts and try to do each triangular face individually, as that will take forever AND probably not look as you intended.  I prefer to get a basic look done and then go fine tune individual faces as needed.

-Av-

Well, several people have reported that the original link did not violate Forum policy as it WAS strictly to the entry page of the site.  Since it was edited before I saw it I can't say for sure, but I believe those who say it was OK.  That's something of a technicality here, though...

The real issue as I see it is the declaration of there being a new installer, not the link to the entry page.  As previously stated nobody here owns the bzone.exe, so any modification and distribution of it in any form is copyright infringement.  Advertising such a thing in a post is against forum rules regardless of where the link leads.

I think the emotional reaction to the mention of an 'installer' in the message was over the top...  but everyone is fiercely protective of these forums so the 'zero tolerance' stance is understandable.  Still, it would have been more proper to edit out the installer message rather than the link.  I think, if had been me, I'd have dumped the topic entirely and PM'd the issue to Spock, giving him a chance to rephrase the post properly.

As I said, I don't want the wars that have raged elsewhere to spread to this little backwater of BZ info, but I will urge tolerance, patience, and equal treatement of all.  I hope in the future everyone, Spock included, can post freely within the rules of the forum.

If that's their intent, that is.  Otherwise out comes the big hammer... 

-Av-

Mr. Spock did message me asking if a link to the website entry page, without any files or anything, would be OK, as previous attempts to 'advertise' caused quite a commotion.

I said a link to the main page would be OK, not expecting a 'look, there's an installer!' entry to accompany it.  My understanding is that no links to actual files or pages containing files that are still copyright are allowed. 

I don't want the Spock/Dx wars to start up again, just to allow fair and impartial access to BZ1 information for everyone.  There shouldn't be a problem with Mr Spock coming here and saying:

"We have what we feel is a very good BZ1 website, located HERE.  Come visit us!"

But of course, it can't be that simple... can it?

-Av-