http://www.gog.com
Interesting and legal approach to dealing with abandonware. I hope they add BZ to their catalogue as it might provide a fresh injection of players into the community.
I already own... like... almost everything I see there...
I feel old...
>.>
Quite good deals though, wish it was integrated into a download framework like Steam or Impulse, do not really fancy the download it once kind of thing as I like to just go to one of my other computers and just 'sync' my account and get everything there too... Yes, I am lazy, but show me a good programmer that does not try to do less work. :P
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*waves hand*
Well, not a "programmer" but CFG files are similar ish.
:-D
Quote from: OvermindDL1 on October 25, 2008, 12:51:32 PM
I feel old...
Yeah yeah yeah... cry me a river... :)
Quote from: OvermindDL1 on October 25, 2008, 12:51:32 PM
Quite good deals though, wish it was integrated into a download framework like Steam or Impulse, do not really fancy the download it once kind of thing as I like to just go to one of my other computers and just 'sync' my account and get everything there too...
Well, I like that once purchased you can download as many times as needed... that's almost as good in my book. :)
-Av-
Quite true. Much better then even EA's store of, download three times or within a couple month, whichever comes first...
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It would be interesting to see how they managed to get the companies to liberate the games as it were. Obviously money... but I can't see it being much for the business model to work.
Given BZ's convoluted ownership I can't see it being an easy target.
Well, take the Apple ][ as an example. I think pretty much every commercial game released for the Apple is available on a web site, complete with emulator that runs in IE... all nice and legal with no cares about getting them to run on modern hardware. I'm pretty sure it was all done by enthusiasts, too, who got the original publishers/authors to sign off on any legal ties.
http://www.virtualapple.org/
Once you remove any chance of profit from a game most companies no longer care about them. It has to be ALL chance of profit, though, so there can't be any future chance of profit, either. That's what holds some titles back, the chance that there's still a few bucks to be made from appealing to the 'retro crowd' with a game pack.
-Av-
Sorry, having dealt with Apple II emulation types in the past, copyrights are the last thing they ever cared about. Or supporting the few developers left in their community. I'd consider all the items on that webpage still copyrighted and pirated unless explicitly noted.
-- GSH
From the support forum:
Legal Question
Postby HistProf on Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:23 am
Hi board moderators, first I would like to thank you for developing this website and including so many classic games. I have a question as to the legality of this site. I was thinking of having my history students play Oregon Trail and write a paper on it but I didn't want to require them to visit this site to play this game if it isn't 100% legal. Thank you for your time.
HistProf
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:20 am
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Re: Legal Question
Postby billm on Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:08 pm
All of the software in this site either is public domain, or is abandon ware. If there is anything in here that should not be here, we take it out. Our goal is always to have a site that the users can legally download the software that they play online here.
Having a huge chunk of those programs myself, most of which came from the various crackers and hackers active at the time, I can understand why it would look like this is all warez... many of them still have the 'cracked by' tags. I even had a wildcard2, which would dump the entire 128K memory onto a disk and then restore it when asked... :)
This sort of project is only possible on a machine that's no longer made, archiving software made by companies that no longer exist or who's authors are now way beyond any hope of further profit from their work and will release it to the common domain.
-Av-
"Abandonware" has zero legal standing. Copyrights exist for Author's life + 75 years, and does not decay if not defended. "We take it down if someone complains" is the cry of pirates everywhere -- they falsely put the burden back on the copyright holders to track down every infringer and complain. Instead, people should get permission, then post it. That's the legal way to do things.
This is not a theoretical subject to me. A dozen years ago, I was one of the top-10 active developers for the Apple II, and spent quite a lot of time fighting pirates. As the community sided with the pirates, and couldn't care less about anything new, I said f*** it.
-- GSH
Sorry, didn't mean to touch a nerve...
I got sidetracked while adding to my post, but I believe from reading over the site that by 'abandonware' they mean those titles who's copyright was held by companies long since out of business, with no corporate 'heirs'. You can argue that the titles are still copyrighted in that case but if nobody holds it and it falls in a forest does it still make a noise? :)
I'd like to know if/how they got the EA titles cleared as those were among my favorites... Archon needs updating, that was a great game...
I do know that for a while they were posting which authors they'd reached and who'd released their titles to the common domain. It was quite a project for a machine that's been dead for so long.
And, while authors life + 75 works for a book, it's ridiculous for programs that are obsolete in a fraction of the author's lifespan. We're risking losing the entire beginning history of the electronic age because the media, hardware, and code is lost within a decade of release. They're not like books, or records, which are still around and readable 100 years later, or still in print if deemed worthy.
I agree that current works need to be vigorously protected to make sure it's purchased and not pirated, (don't make me post a pic of my software shelf...) :) and I think a lot of progress in that regard has been made with many of the current top titles requiring internet access and registration codes to work.
I just think that when the hardware and software only exists because enthusiasts have made sure to save it a different standard needs to be applied. That might take changing the law to suit the electronic age...
-Av-
sided with pirates!
never!
unless youre playing QF mod. in which case its fine :)
What gog.com is doing is arranging for commercial distribution of games that were previously characterized as abandonware.
Abandonware for all intents and purposes is warez.
Liberated games are games that have had a new EULA allowing non-commercial distribution and use (see http://www.liberatedgames.com/license.php).
I'd rather see old games become liberated but GOG's approach might have more success given there is a money incentive for the original copyright holders.
You know...
If you go back to the start of the computer gaming business, which might be too far back for most people :) , you run into a lot of 'companies' that were just a couple of guys in their garage. Times were simple and, like a lot of garage bands, getting clear title to old works can be virtually impossible. That's why some movies from the 80's aren't going to DVD, because getting the sound track signed off by dozens of companies that hold copyright on the various songs in the movie is virtually impossible, or would cost more than the profits from the DVD, or is all tied up in multiple parties claiming ownership.
And another thing:
Nobody is going to make any real money off of, oh, say, all of the old Atari 2600 games, which will sell only as a 'nostalgia item' to us old farts that started our gaming addiction with one. Compared with the current crop of XBox and Playstation games the old Atari stuff might as well be invisible to anyone under 40. Who'd play PONG when they could be playing something that looks like a REAL tennis game? There's also the issue of keeping the hardware working OR getting a decent emulator going, which is going to get increasingly difficult as the graphics hardware advances. We're having trouble keeping 5 year old games running correctly with modern hardware, let alone something from 20 years ago. Most of the old arcade classics like Pacman or Joust can now be played online in a browser window. That should tell you something...
In another ten years or so many of the games we're talking about will be in the same boat. The difficulty in finding the copyright holder, securing the rights, making it work under modern OS/hardware, or even finding someone interested in doing any of the above, will increase to the point where it just won't happen.
So, bottom line, many of these titles will be lost to history. It's good to see somone trying to preserve them, but it will always be a temporary niche thing...
-Av-
Lol - in 2020 Crysis will be considered an old piece of rubbish that nearly nobody can play because nvidia will have cut support for DX10.
I already picture myself building a PC just for BZ2 in the future.
i will do the same thing probably. that is, if computers still run off electricity :)
That's about it...
Although I think 2020 is a bit further in the future than it will take.
I've already got a Pentium sitting here basically to run BZ1, mostly for BZC development but also because I still miss Win98... :)
-Av-
(that is, until the hardware gets powerful enough to run BZ2 in a browser window... lol...)
Quote from: Dx on October 28, 2008, 08:07:46 PM
I asked for permission from Activision, Atari and Team Evolve for the work i did on Bz Enhanced.
So what would BZE be considered... liberated or is it technically still in the abandonware domain (ie they don't care)?
If BZE included a text file indicating that it is licensed for non-commercial redistribution I could make it known to about 20K gamers who might be willing to give it a try.
He said he asked...
What did they reply?
:-P
-Av-
Atari just had to be an ass.
Curious though.. what exactly did you ask Atari? Perhaps if approached by GOG, or from another perspective in your case, would they liberate BZ?
I wonder if Atari would buy off on this?
QuoteTHE COMPUTER CODE THAT COMPRISES THE WORK CALLED BATTLEZONE IS THE SOLE PROPERTY OF ATARI CORPORATION. ATARI, IN ALLOWING THE NON COMMERCIAL REDISTRBUTION OF THIS THE CODE TO END-USERS, AND SUBJECT TO ALL OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS HEREIN, GRANTS A ROYALTY-FREE, PERPETUAL LICENSE TO SUCH END-USERS FOR USE BY SUCH END-USERS IN USING, DISPLAYING, AND CREATING DERIVATIVE WORKS THEREOF, SO LONG AS SUCH USE, DISPLAY OR CREATION IS FOR NON-COMMERCIAL, ROYALTY OR REVENUE FREE PURPOSES. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE END-USER USE THE COMPUTER CODE CONTAINED HEREIN FOR REVENUE-BEARING PURPOSES. THE END-USER UNDERSTANDS AND AGREES TO THE TERMS HEREIN AND ACCEPTS THE SAME BY INSTALLING ANY AND ALL WORKS OF THE CODE.
THE BATTLEZONE CODE IS PROVIDED AS IS WITH NO WARRANTY FOR ITS SUITABILITY FOR USE.
ANY USE OF THE CODE MUST INCLUDE A CLEARLY VISIBLE CREDIT TO ATARI AS THE OWNERS, AND REITERATION OF THIS LICENSE.
If not then something like this might work.
http://liberatedgames.org/licenses/Relic_Entertainment_End_User_License_Agreement.txt
Atari may own the name Battlezone, but the code & data (assets -- textures, models, sounds, etc) are owned by Activision. It's even more fun for BZ2, where Pandemic is now part of Electronic Arts (EA), so there's three publishers involved.
-- GSH
Quote from: GSH on October 30, 2008, 11:13:17 AM
It's even more fun for BZ2, where Pandemic is now part of Electronic Arts (EA), so there's three publishers involved.
-- GSH
haha :)
These are nice cases where I wish things used OpenGL, as, guess what, Video cards have full support for all the old OpenGL stuff. :P
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Well, as I said, eventually the changes in hardware and OS's will kill anything currently in use. While it can be fun, rewarding, challenging, frustrating, and even harmful to your health to keep an old game running eventually it becomes impossible. This is not only because of the hardware/code changes, but also because of the aged gameplay itself. IOW even if you keep it running few people will be content actually playing the original console PONG now that so many much cooler games are around...
The TRUE hope for old games lies in the same fans that go through so much trouble to keep them running... only they need to move them to new engines and new hardware rather than just try to keep the original going. At some point you can't update anymore, you need to start over.
Luckily this is getting easier with each new generation of engines and coding platforms. (IOW I think even I could code up PONG in VC++)... :)
-Av-
QuoteIf you go back to the start of the computer gaming business, which might be too far back for most people Smiley , you run into a lot of 'companies' that were just a couple of guys in their garage. Times were simple and, like a lot of garage bands, getting clear title to old works can be virtually impossible. That's why some movies from the 80's aren't going to DVD, because getting the sound track signed off by dozens of companies that hold copyright on the various songs in the movie is virtually impossible, or would cost more than the profits from the DVD, or is all tied up in multiple parties claiming ownership
Stated a couple posts back....
Yahoo.com is a good example of that.
Quote from: Dx on October 30, 2008, 08:50:00 PM
Ok OM, put the Ogre open gl in Bz for me. ;) Oh and raknet. hehe
If I had the source, and most importantly, a lot of time, certainly. :P
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OM needs some more tag lines, I think I've read all of the current ones... :)
-Av-
I didn't want to start a new topic for this, but PCGamer gave this game some love in their feedback "letters" section in the newest copy. Someone wrote in named Deathypoo and they published his letter. With a pic of a tank saying it was a shooter and a looter with a hightech scooter. LOL
I saw that too.
Anybody wanna scan?
Sure.
Yes please, as a quick internet search turned up nothing.
-Av-
I found this about bz2.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1052629&sid=1f3cff2ce0226e2e4854386a5f50ed0f
doesn't say much about bz1. and it's just a forum post. That's what I found from a quick search.
I'll try to do it this evening.
here we go.
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That's great! Hopefully it gets more people playing. Sadly they'll be most likely playing on the croat server being manipulated by it's owner until they (the new players) figure him out.