There seems to be a bit of consternation over at battlezone1.freeforums.org, and I'd like to clear things up a bit. I'm not going to get involved in this whole community split over BZ1, BZE, BZ2. Development of the unofficial BZ2 1.3 patch brought me here years ago, and I plan to stay here for the duration. I don't mean that as some sort of personal rejection, just a simple fact.
There has been a recent push to warn or educate me about Dx/Reaper and BZE, with the implication that I've been on the wrong side of the issue. Regardless of how much that community despises Dx/Reaper, he has shown both dedication and maturity over the years I've been in contact. I ask everyone to just chill out. I'm an adult and I can take care of myself. This isn't about one side or the other.
My primary objective is to get BZ1 working with modern development tools on Windows 7 since that's what I have at home. I may add some other modernizations while I'm in there, but can't make any promises since my time is very limited. I can't afford to get into a bunch of gameplay changes or feature requests, since that exactly the kind of time-sink that led me to burn myself out on BZ2. The product of my effort will remain the same game everyone knows, just preserved for the future.
Though I care deeply about BZ1--it was my first shipped title--I return with considerable reluctance because I knew I would get pulled in all sorts of directions. The "experimental build" has sparked considerable excitement in the community, but I think releasing it publicly was a mistake. What's done is done, though.
I'm with you.
Problem is everyone always wants more... i heard a 'why wasn't shader support introduced' when TA5 was released with DX9. I mean... waaaah?!
I intend to play BZ1 when BZClassic comes out, mainly because i dont have money to spend on old games, and would like to do it in BZ2's engine.
I dont care that BZC is exactly the same thing, I just want my BZ working! :-D
BZC may not be EXACTLY the same thing. There will be some aspects of BZ2 that make it better. Such as MPI against a HARD cpu team, provided that I can find somebody that knows enough about aips to make a challenging AI but still keeping the feeling of BZ1.
/random plea for help with aips/
Quote from: General BlackDragon on November 20, 2009, 01:25:09 PM
BZC may not be EXACTLY the same thing. There will be some aspects of BZ2 that make it better. Such as MPI against a HARD cpu team, provided that I can find somebody that knows enough about aips to make a challenging AI but still keeping the feeling of BZ1.
/random plea for help with aips/
I don't care if it is, was my point :P
And Jamsh is the guy you want.
Quote/random plea for help with aips/
I know the feeling, currently I am avoiding further development of my LoS AIP's until I get a week or so free to sink my head back into them properly. Trying to define a set that dynamically uses aip switching to alter the AI strategy's in a real-time responsive way... hisExists confusion >= 10.
looks like im doing AIP's for BZC as well now :P
Lol.
But I think it's good that we're trying to bridge the gaps in the communities. A majority of the BZ1 community is at battlezone1.freeforums.org and I believe their help in testing the Experimental build will be very helpful in the end.
Look at BZC over the past 3 years. At first I was very ambitious and excited. I started delving in and helping in every aspect I could. At first Avatar was surprised and a little scared at how fast I was going through and adding the missing bits in and reporting multiple pages of bugs. If you search through my post history you will see that.
But after a while he warmed up to me and I settled down. Or is it visa versa? :P And now I am pretty tamed and waiting on Avatar for DLLs. :mrgreen: Ultimately, Avatar believes my help in BZC will be very beneficial. Just like I believe the involvement of the BZ1 community in this patch will be just as much.
Ken, it's not so much a rush to educate you on their silliness but rather their small explosions that are ejecting frivolous information at us.
Ignore them. DX might have some useful info from the bits of code changed for BZE and hack fixes, but aside from what, don't get involved in the crap.
I agree. Was a mistake on my part for trying to see what I could do and all that. I'm banned from Spocks forum, and I'll tell you this, that is an abuse of power on his part, not here.
Anyway, from that action, I'd probably take some advice from Dx more-so than him, but I'm sure both sides can bring up good points to fix.
I don't really plan to get BZ1 again, played it a little, but the physics are so much different that I can't really get used to them. Plus, the unit management is just... well.. can't build more than 10 offensive units is just not me. (as I like to have a platoon of units =P)
And for all those who are wondering WHY links to BZ1 installers are no longer allowed.
NO it is NOT because BZU/BZ2 players hate BZ1...
It's my fault actually. Not Directly mind you, but It was because of a post I made containing a link to the BZ1.4l Club installer a year ago.
I made a post for someone containing the installer for BZ1, assuming it was legal since all the BZ1 sites had one up. The next day I find out I'm banned from BZU for a week and wondered why.
Apparently somebody didn't like the fact that I posted it, so they reported the link as an illegal download to the web site provider. They in turn called CmptrWz and insisted he remove the link. Instead he removed the topic and banned me from posting for a week. :| BZU almost got shut down because of it.
Thats why the admins/moderators here are so harsh about that.
Quarry Topic:
http://www.bzuniverse.com/forum/index.php/topic,7726.0.html
Rule Response Topic:
http://www.bzuniverse.com/forum/index.php/topic,7724.0.html
Both of those topics are here because of me. :-(
My 2 cents - just doing a compatibility update is probably the correct thing at this point - adding in lots of new features will make it into a "patch" and said patch would only be valid for modern systems - it probably wouldn't work on any older win 9x systems, so you would have complaints there. Avoiding the "feature wars" is a good idea.
If it doesnt work on anything lower than XP, then i think the answer should be 'tough luck'. Quite frankly these people who will complain about such things desperately need to upgrade... I no longer see any problem with having games non backward compatible pre-XP.
That, and the fact that BZ2 has now dropped pre-XP support because of DX9 and NO ONE complained means it probably isnt that big of an issue.
Quote from: TheJamsh on November 21, 2009, 03:16:23 AM
If it doesnt work on anything lower than XP, then i think the answer should be 'tough luck'. Quite frankly these people who will complain about such things desperately need to upgrade... I no longer see any problem with having games non backward compatible pre-XP.
That, and the fact that BZ2 has now dropped pre-XP support because of DX9 and NO ONE complained means it probably isnt that big of an issue.
I agree, and disagree with this.
1. XP has been the standard OS for the better part of 8-10 years, and is still going strong even now.
2. Though it is true that there are compatibility issues when games are made pre-XP, some will work on XP just fine, and others won't. But typically, those are abandoned as it is and never get updated further. (I can name one or two)
3. There are certain DOS games that will refuse to work on XP, and I would name a few, but I don't have them any longer.
In short, some games are indeed made better on systems like 95 or 98 and some could definitely use an update. In the case of Battlezone, an update is in order. I think most of the players for both BZ and BZ2 are using XP, Vista, or Win7 as it is. I haven't seen a person use 98 since I got a new computer years ago.
i mean XP should still be compatible, but before that, i dont see a real need for it.
'98 was a very good OS and I still have it on my notebook. Mainly because it won't run XP, but also because I don't want all of XP's features that I don't use on my small notebook. Which is about as old as me :lol: Then again, it won't run BZ anyway. No hardware or 3D acceleration either.
That's the only computer I have ever seen running 98 since XP was released.
And with XP so cheap these days (especially now we're two ahead) there's really no reason for a BZer not to upgrade.
As far as I know, BZ2 1.3ta5/1.3pb5.1 require Win2000 and up. Not XP and up.
-- GSH
I think many here that are aware of the angst in the BZ1 community have a valid perspective that is justifiable. It's much easier to see AND recognize the nonsense when you're not bathed in it daily or even weekly.
That said, most here weren't exposed to the horrendous amount of everyday and various mischief and full blown hacking that began to become overwhelming around 2005-6, so it's much easier to make an evaluation with a cooler head.
As you can now see with the community size of BZ1, the landscape of BZ1 has now become a barren wasteland, and at this point, I doubt there's any recovering.
It's very refreshing to see this board/community, for the most part, level-headed and civilized.
Lets hope a new BZ1 patch paves the way for cleaning things up. One of two things would happen. A: 3 way split. B: Some people from both parties join the new BZ and it becomes secondary to that of one of those parties. (IE a community that plays more than one reliably).
Personally i think as soon as BZC comes out (provided a good job is done which im sure it will be), BZ1 will most likely die off... it really depends how well the emulation is in BZ2 really...
well, die off may be a bit extreme, but i suspect 'newcomers' if there are any will go to BZc as soon as they find out about it.
Quote from: TheJamsh on November 25, 2009, 01:22:36 PM
Personally i think as soon as BZC comes out (provided a good job is done which im sure it will be), BZ1 will most likely die off
Nope. But BZ2 will certainly get more traffic.
Quote from: Nielk1 on November 25, 2009, 12:35:41 PM
Lets hope a new BZ1 patch paves the way for cleaning things up. One of two things would happen. A: 3 way split. B: Some people from both parties join the new BZ and it becomes secondary to that of one of those parties. (IE a community that plays more than one reliably).
There will always be a faction wanting the game as is. They enjoy tweaking/cheating and won't be happy with any version that prevents it.
Eddy
Quote from: eddywright on November 25, 2009, 04:37:46 PM
There will always be a faction wanting the game as is. They enjoy tweaking/cheating and won't be happy with any version that prevents it.
Eddy
I figured BZE vs Spock would become BZE/BZ1NEWPATCH vs Spock.
Well, the thing of it is, with all the changes and additions to BZE it is an expansion not a patch, as it is far from stock and done by a modder Spock can get away with his "non-stock" arguments to the uninitiated. However, the new bzone.exe is being worked on by an original developer and if he gets it working well it will be as close to an "official" patch as you can get. Spock will have a much harder time telling people that the next version is "non-stock".
It will be good if you can share some of your improvements and code fixes with Ken, he certainly seems willing to listen. IMHO, there are quite a few non-OS related things in BZE that should go into a stock 1.5 patch - the Golem fix, the sniper tanks fix, the shell improvements, just to name a few - although I'm aware that some will not agree with changing all of these.
HAHA! He says I never played BZ1.
K - Deploy
Q - Cloak (IIRC)
DMs you are stuck with the one unit you pick.
Hmm what else... Basically I know BZ1 and have played it. Hell I have ROTBD and have played all of that.
I didn't ever manage to finish TRO, that's the closest to truth "didn't even play BZ1" can be.
The point of view of someone looking in from the outside tends to show things both sides can't see but is also less accurate on the information. As that person looking in I see Spock and some people on one side, and everybody else on the other. Spock slanders and claims the other side is evil, some people move to Spock's side, them promptly get banned and go back to the other side, then a site like that new one opens and it looks like it is not Spock related, and people use it. Quite funny really when you look at this whole thing.
I've actually heard horrible claims about both sides from Launchalot, so I am not some sort of robot on one side or the other, I simply speak from what I have seen and how I was treated when I attempted to join the respective halves of the community to discuss things with them.
His whole thing about people being banned is funny. No one is banned from BZU permanently the first ban unless they post porn or are a bot. It is repeatedly doing something that you are told is wrong that gets you banned. For example, posting links to installs of BZ1, which is not allowed because someone scared the server host for this site into thinking even BZE is illegal (it is not). Actually sounds like something one of Spock's cronies would do from what I understand, but there is no way to know. If it was however, the irony is that is a direct cause of Spock's ban.
Preserving this here where he can't edit it:
Quote from: Nielk1I would still appreciate having this user removed but, seeing as it is still here.
Spock was banned from BZU for doing something specific more than once. He was warned the first time. It was something many of us had no problem with (posting certain links) but someone complained to the server company hosting BZU about such a thing a long while ago with BzE, and now, for that reason, nothing of that type may be linked for shear legal protection. Spock was warned several times before he was banned. The irony is it was likely someone against BzE who started that issue, and as thus likely someone from here.
For another point, I have played Battlezone I. I got it with a thrustmaster joystick and it is why I got Battlezone II. I also have played TRO, and I have finished the Black Dog Campaign in ROTB (the N64 game).
And a technical note as to why BzE only has one server. BzE has received an ANET ID different than that of BZ1, because, as was stated, it is not BZ1. As such the server must be set to host that game ID (to my knowledge, I may be incorrect as to ID limiting ANET servers, I dug though ANET source code but it is a mess). This also supports the claim that BzE was always meant for development testing and as a mod.
I must also stress that my statements about community alignment are based on forum activity. As a baseline I see many more members on the side opposite to yours than here. Seeing as each have a habit of banning the other side, this means that it is rather reliable to use a simply count of the active users. A neutral party (and a few who aren't) would likely appear on both sites. From cruising both sites I find that you use a 'patched' version of BZ1 while the other half uses an older version of BZ1 or BzE. Seeing this, it is easy to conclude that the larger party, by active member count, is playing BzE and BZ1 and your party is playing BZ1 'patched'. I further deduce from your hate of BzE and some of your reasons, as well as what is said about you and what you say about DX, that a version of BZ1 that is patched that runs contrary to your 'patched' version would either A: be accepted by both sides, or B: Be only accepted by the other side and be another target for your scorn.
Points to the contrary would be appreciated, and by this I mean actual points, not random slandering and screwing with user settings again. (Just look at what you did to my profile here, unless you fixed it.)
I tried hard to finish tro, never did though.
Thanks to all this...I don't think we're going to see another public release of the BZ1 fix from Ken for awhile if it's gonna keep the peace.
Forgive the cynicism, but I have a nasty headache.
I'm banned from Spocks forum, and I can see who the true abusers of power are. He also deleted my post as well (I have it uploaded, because I had a feeling he would do that)
At any rate, don't y'all think this has probably gone on long enough and maybe we should just move on? I'm sure Ken is working on fixing BZ1 when time permits, just that he may be a little slow on occasions to get something out because.. well, he could be busy with something. Same with Nathan and BZ2, since he has stuff to find out as it is.
Quote from: TwinShadow on November 26, 2009, 09:23:24 PM
At any rate, don't y'all think this has probably gone on long enough and maybe we should just move on? I'm sure Ken is working on fixing BZ1 when time permits, just that he may be a little slow on occasions to get something out because.. well, he could be busy with something. Same with Nathan and BZ2, since he has stuff to find out as it is.
We can move on, but I doubt that Spock's group will.
No no, I meant this topic in general. =P I know they will never change now that I'm their receiving end for bans. XD
I've actually been helping out a bit on other things, just not the renderer. I plan to take a stab at it soon, though. :-D
Nielk1
I liked your post on freeforums. I thought it was actually constructive and showed a willingness to see 'our' point of view. But my reply and Spork's which were both answering the questions you posed were removed.
When I questioned this removal on the grounds of hypocrisy. I too joined the hallowed hall of banned Battlezoners.
On a more constructive note, I am still interested in helping Ultraken in testing BZ on Windows 7, As I am one of the relative few it seems who can play BZ1 on 7.
I kind of skimmed over and would like to make a point...
I am responsible for banning spock from here both times, because CmptrWz OWNS this site, and HE made it clear he doesn't want links here, because SOMEONE complained to his server people that there was a link here before. I was upholding the rules of the forum, just like any global moderator should. Had i been a regular user, i would have complained about it to a glob moderator too.
Many of you were either not on this forum or not visiting when CmptrWz was going to shut it down, he got pretty pissed with what the BZ community had turned into and basically couldn't be arsed to endorse it anymore. TBH i cant blame him. It was only through the dedication and sponsorship money through the users on this forum that it stayed alive.
Spock came here and posted a link which was illegal. He knew that, if he didnt then he didn't read the rules. That goes for anyone else too, read the rules if you don't know them, then you have a valid standing to argue your case if you think you have been banned for no reason. I gave him a temporary ban and told him to return in three days when he could read the rules. He didnt, and continued to hide links to his illegal installer in posts, so it was a permaban. As far as im concerned he got lucky, because had CmptrWz seen that he would have been permabanned the first time.
Spock is one guy, who owns a website that everyone continually gets banned from when they question HIS rules, yet he thinks he has this right to do it on other forums. He has issues which he needs to sort. What goes around comes around, one day he will find himself alone because he has alienated everyone around him who doesnt pay attention to his pathetic rules. He has his methods, i once actually became hostile towards Dx because he sank his hollow words in. Hes a poison who tries to break up other communities so his dying one can live on. If he wasnt such an asshole his would have lived on anyway.
I have no doubt i'll be contacted and flamed by him for this post but the point is i couldn't care less, and neither should you lot. I never played BZ1, and couldn't care less about it quite frankly. In fact some of you may not wish to hear this, but once the addon pack is out, i will be going very quiet trying to get my actual mod done, and plan to eventually emulate BZ2 in the Unreal Engine (with some help no doubt). I'll play the emulated version on BZC when its released (i'll have to anyway now im on the dev team in some respects, and ill have to play through BZ1 to get the right 'feel').
Fact is, you should ALL just leave him be. Sooner or later he will realise people will say what they want when they want, and he can't stop it.
Good day to you ladies and gents.
I've played BZ1 a couple times. The physics are very, very different from BZ2. I believe it was more designed around ship maneuvering rather than the pilot, since pilot controls I feel are a bit clunky. I didn't play BZ1 for very long because well.. starting off with BZ2, I can't really get used to the older physics for some reason. XD
And Dx, I think TJ was talking about emulating BZ2 in Unreal, not BZ1. At least, that's what I gather since he's been talking about it here frequently, and a couple times in the IRC room.
Just to reassert my position firmly in no-man's land on this one.
Also, I'm registering at BZC so I can speak to these guys personally and try to help.
Well im only doing the AIP's for BZClassic, Av and GBD are taking care of the rest.
I would at some point love to move BZ2 to unreal engine, but wether or not that happens depends on a) how many people could help out and b) if i can find the time.
LMAO! He removed my post and banned me, and everyone here can see how clean, simple, and correct my post was. I still would prefer my user be deleted instead of banned but, hey, close enough.
*Third Party Voice, cause you all know I could give less of a crap about BZ1 Drama*
Well, obviously both sides are Biased towards their view, and have SOME reason, but in the end you all are a bunch of retards for trying to bring your crap over to where I and others who could care less HAVE to see it.
All because it is "safe" here for your crap, don't go posting away here, I hope that a moderator here gets smart and deletes those kinds of posts.
(Yes, you all know who you are, trying to "preserve" your posts so we all can see that you are trying to make yourself a damn Martyr, your not, you are being a damn 2 year old.)
Quote from: Warfreak on November 27, 2009, 02:31:04 PM
(Yes, you all know who you are, trying to "preserve" your posts so we all can see that you are trying to make yourself a damn Martyr, your not, you are being a damn 2 year old.)
I did the same thing with Sean when he went mad with power on BZTron on BZ2MD. And for the record I wanted to get rid of my account on his site, a martyr doesn't do things for personal gain like that.
I actually got a good dialog going on Spock's site with calm truthful and factually driven replies before it was deleted.
My point slightly stands, don't make it appear safe to be doing that crap. Last thing a lot of us want is this forum getting dragged into something we could care less about. (We care about BZ1, YES. We care about the crap revolving BZ1, NO.)
*yes, i do fear this section of the forums becoming a flame war-zone... again.*
Also, a big thanks to those BZ1 users who HAVEN'T come here to start one since this topic came up. Seriously, you DON'T know how much your refusal to stoop to the other few's level is appreciated.
Well since my name was drug into this ...
I understand most here are younger than myself and get upset a little easier at some posts , but why they flame a game they do not even play is still a mystery to me. This is the BZ 1 forum correct? All I will say is speaking from experience I still think Spock and DX have mental issues , they clearly love the game but from both of their conduct and not willing to collaborate I find it hard to deal with either.
There IMO should be a server for both the original BZ as well as a updated versions such as BZE , which is causing a rift at the moment. Hail to Ken for taking the time to help this old game breath , and maybe if some here were not so quick to ban maybe Spock could add his help along the way. If anyone should be pissed it would be me at the lies spread around on forums but ... I keep hoping for a game we all can enjoy without hackers and maybe be able to play with some of you fine young men/women here on this forum.
Ok I'm done , hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving !
Happy Thanksgiving Launch, DX. :roll:
As an aside, the anonymity and lack of social cues of communication on the internet makes it all too easy for disagreements like this to spiral out of control into epic conflagrations. People commit actions and post things online that they wouldn't dare face-to-face. It's easy to be a complete dick to words on the screen. It's much harder to be a complete dick to someone in person, though that doesn't stop some from trying.
On the other hand, Spock's profligate use of the banhammer to maintain "ideological purity" on his site isn't doing his cause any favors. "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers..."
Update: that second paragraph came across as much more incendiary than I intended...
LOL. That phrase puts it all together all to perfectly. :D
I saw on some board maybe this one ( to lazy to go back ) it was your birthday Lucky , wooty woot and many more !
Quote from: Launch on November 27, 2009, 04:57:13 PM
I saw on some board maybe this one ( to lazy to go back ) it was your birthday Lucky , wooty woot and many more !
It is. Thanks. :D Big 25 now. :)
yes It appears I'm out of Spock's empire now.
I tried to get back in, but got enough insults in the process so I told him where to stick it. He threatened to kick me from the server about 6 times and never did it. So it would appear he isn't actually able to do that.
What happened was...
Neilk1 posted his post as it appears on this forum. i thought this was a fair comment and myself and Spork answered it coherently and with reasonable points. mainly that BZ98 is in essence the original game, with some slight fixes ( my actual word on there was modifications) and that we don't like some of the changes made in BZE, mainly the different vehicles and factories, and personally the lack of single player campaign.
These comments, and Neilk1's original message were duly deleted. and it was made clear that the topic was not for debate, just there to slag off this forum. (which I think has been quite fair on Spock's forum, no lies you tell it as it is.)
I complained to SPock saying he shouldn't just delete those sort of things, as that was EXACTLY what he slags off this forum for doing. I pointed out the hypocrisy. I was duly banned.
I had an ongoing argument with him over email, He was his usual self. It came to a head on the server and I told him where to go.
Luckily for me I quite like BZ2...
Quote from: Ultraken on November 27, 2009, 04:42:01 PM
On the other hand, Spock's profligate use of the banhammer to maintain "ideological purity" on his site isn't doing his cause any favours. "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers..."
Exactly.
Logical, civil, and good-natured, fun people are always welcome here. :-)
ad hominem and all that other negative stuff, not so much.
As for the different flavors of stock games, hey, variety is the spice of life. :-)
Quote from: Nielk1 on November 27, 2009, 11:21:45 AM
LMAO! He removed my post and banned me, and everyone here can see how clean, simple, and correct my post was. I still would prefer my user be deleted instead of banned but, hey, close enough.
I too am again banned from spock's battzone1.net server for posting earlier in this thread, though I didn't mention any one in particular. . .
Quote
There will always be a faction wanting the game as is. They enjoy tweaking/cheating and won't be happy with any version that prevents it.
Eddy
In an odd way, I see no huge issue with it anymore,
IF those playing the game understand the game's brokenness and susceptibility. BZ1.4's most crippling issue is the VERY few-and-far-between newcomers are not informed the game is incredibly easy to tamper with and that many do.
To add insult to injury, I find it a shame when the server host openly
(don't want to step on toes linking to it) tells newcomers that the server is "hack proof". Much like the spider speaking to the fly.
As I said, because this 'bz universe' community IS so tiny. . .both BZ/E and BZ2. . . any mischief gets recognized and commented on. I think mostly because everyone left playing have a deep affection for the game they have played for the last decade.
This long term ongoing kerfluffle has gotten very tiresome. I propose a general truce on all sides. If thru PM's it can be worked out, I recommend that all bans be lifted - Spock can be reinstated on this board and BZC, and in return he must agree to unban everyone on his forums and discontinue his practice of arbitrary banning. From there, we can see how people's behavior progresses. If everyone treads lightly for awhile, than the provisional truce can remain in effect. If not, I guess we would be back to where we are now. The current state of affairs is not good, however. There is too much negative energy floating around.
Quote from: Baldrick on November 27, 2009, 05:17:38 PM
I had an ongoing argument with him over email, He was his usual self. It came to a head on the server and I told him where to go.
Luckily for me I quite like BZ2..
Good point for a newcomer to witness. You post on Spocks forum and play on his server and then play BZE your banned. If you go to the BZE ( dx ) server and try to talk logic your banned like I was .. even though I haven't played a game in almost 2 years now ... The drunk is the best he can come up with. There is no hope online for BZ1 being run from a private server , a gamer that is there watching everything you do or say.
I have no doubt a better BZ can be made , the server control is my biggest problem.
I say. . .let's do it ssuser.
You, and I suppose others at this board, will learn the lesson most long time BZ1.4 players learned long, long ago.
By hey, it just a game, let's give the other cheek a try again. . . what the heck. . .
Quote from: ssuser on November 27, 2009, 05:36:38 PM
This long term ongoing kerfluffle has gotten very tiresome. I propose a general truce on all sides. If thru PM's it can be worked out, I recommend that all bans be lifted - Spock can be reinstated on this board and BZC, and in return he must agree to unban everyone on his forums and discontinue his practice of arbitrary banning. From there, we can see how people's behavior progresses. If everyone treads lightly for awhile, than the provisional truce can remain in effect. If not, I guess we would be back to where we are now. The current state of affairs is not good, however. There is too much negative energy floating around.
I don't think Spock'll do it. I got banned from there mainly because I posted here, I don't think he'd come back now after climbing on his high horse
BTW, SSuser, Thankyou for producing Hell's gate 2, it took me ages. Really really fun challenge.
Life is short. I say we all just stop doing something that we don't enjoy doing. Why be miserable?
Quote from: Baldrick on November 27, 2009, 04:48:36 AM
Nielk1
I liked your post on freeforums. I thought it was actually constructive and showed a willingness to see 'our' point of view. But my reply and Spork's which were both answering the questions you posed were removed.
When I questioned this removal on the grounds of hypocrisy. I too joined the hallowed hall of banned Battlezoners.
On a more constructive note, I am still interested in helping Ultraken in testing BZ on Windows 7, As I am one of the relative few it seems who can play BZ1 on 7.
Sorry to hear you got hit with the ban hammer. Did you do anything special to get BZ working in Windows 7? I'm going to install Win 7 tomorrow and I'll want to install BZ.
Eddy
Don't use ACT, if you have, uninstall it. It stopped me at first. from what I hear it's a bit random whether it will or not and it may be graohics card linked. I just installed BZ from my Xplosiv disc version. It worked fine. Need to change the mouse settings tho. So far I've had no luck with Ken's version of the exe past the point where you hit 'launch', as soon as the actual game begins it crashes for me.
I have the same problem with the new exe running it on Vista64. I have an nvidia 8800GTX and 1.4 and BZE all work pretty well with it. Other video cards have caused all sorts of problems, so I have to agree that problems are mostly caused by the video card. Do you get any graphic glitches in Windows 7? My chat text weirds out sometimes and I can't see the numbers in the radar (like navs or units). You can see some of the glitches in these videos.
http://www.bz911.com/bze1.wmv
http://www.bz911.com/bze2.wmv
etc...
Watch the gui windows, some of the graphics will turn into white blocks.
Eddy
The two big differences with my custom build are Visual C++ 2008 Express and the August 2009 DirectX SDK. The latter might have a lot to do with it, but it's hard to tell. I'd have to dig up and install an older version of the SDK to know for sure.
It's funny to watch Spock gripe on only one line from my post. Even funnier that he does so in a way to make me look wrong when I am probably right. Subbuilds... 1.4, 1.4b, 1.4c, 1.4d, ..., 1.4l, 1.4m, 1.4n.
Last I recall Spock had them using M or N which he modified and the last common one was L, though this could be incorrect and I have no issue with being corrected in a civil way.
I think the last version was O, then it became 'BZ98' this is common to all those who use free forums, the L was the last one that was backed by Battlezone Club I believe. I got kicked partly for having an opinion. (I was actively told I HAVE NO OPINION) and partly because I called bz98 a modified version of 1.4. 1.4 is the stock game as it was last released by Activision. this is What the readme on my version from my disc, (this is the Xplosiv version, they used to rerelease older games at low price in the UK and Europe, as such it was probably the last version to be released for sale) says:
QuoteBattlezone Patch 1.4 Information
The patch has now successfully updated your version of Battlezone to have
the following features:
General Fixes
* More anti-cheating measures have been implemented.
* Bugs regarding compatibility with DirectX 6.0 have been fixed.
Once again, thanks to everyone who helped out and to all our loyal Battlezone fans.
The Battlezone Team
The version released by Spock is 1.4 with some fixes and a lot of extra maps. I don't know exactly what was fixed or how, I'm just a player, not a programmer.
I think the last big installer from the Battlezone club was 1.4L - there were plans for an "M" version but people were drifting away at that point and it never got done.
The actual 1.4 EXE patch is the old Activision patch - that might be included in Spock's installer, but all the extra maps and such would be fan-created content. Acti's patch is about 4.5 MB in size, if you see a patch bigger than that named 1.4, it is NOT the official Activision version.
The version of TRO Spock gives away. Is that modified at all? Or is it pretty much untouched?
Interesting, Interesting...
Quote from: ssuser on November 27, 2009, 05:36:38 PM
This long term ongoing kerfluffle has gotten very tiresome. I propose a general truce on all sides. If thru PM's it can be worked out, I recommend that all bans be lifted - Spock can be reinstated on this board and BZC, and in return he must agree to unban everyone on his forums and discontinue his practice of arbitrary banning. From there, we can see how people's behavior progresses. If everyone treads lightly for awhile, than the provisional truce can remain in effect. If not, I guess we would be back to where we are now. The current state of affairs is not good, however. There is too much negative energy floating around.
Just a quick thing, people don't really change sometimes. Some will, but others may never change. In this case, a "truce" will probably be pointless since I doubt it'll ever happen.
I don't have an exact reason why I was banned from Spock's forum. I made a post about how I sometimes don't agree with some bans, but many are justified and that he was warned several times to not do stuff again. But, obviously, that got me banned, he deleted my post and left one line in a quote: "Piss one off, you can expect a ban to be seen." <- I said that in my post, he deleted and two have quoted it to keep it there for whatever intensive purpose. I couldn't care less any more.
I had the funny feeling I can cite their site to the host for copyright infringement, but I've held off on it because then I'd be going too far with the matter. (in doing so, I've done nothing, really don't want to go through that trouble anyway)
Quote from: TwinShadow on November 28, 2009, 05:12:18 PM
Just a quick thing, people don't really change sometimes. Some will, but others may never change. In this case, a "truce" will probably be pointless since I doubt it'll ever happen.
To see if things
can change, all you need to do is take a quick peek at the spock's server most any time during the day. While I'm currently banned, I would wager the price of several BZ CDs that you'll find him and the guy paying for the server, posing well known BZ player names and responding as
that player to cause angst and animosity.
But again, most of us long time BZ1.4 players learned the BZ landscape years ago. One of about 3 primary reasons BZ1.4 is now defunct.
Everywhere you go, theres never any shortage of drama. :-D
QuoteTo see if things can change, all you need to do is take a quick peek at the spock's server most any time during the day. While I'm currently banned, I would wager the price of several BZ CDs that you'll find him and the guy paying for the server, posing well known BZ player names and responding as that player to cause angst and animosity.
I saw myself posed yesterday, twice, once as my forum username and as my Youtube name.
I'm gonna give this whole thing a break for a while. It's too petty to devote my time to anymore. So if anyone does get angst from 'Baldrick' it's not me. I'm washing my hands of it.
All this hoote and angst are why I am not playing "BZ1" again until BZC comes out.
Some need kerfuffle; most don't.
Can I say something?
I haven't contributed much to the BZ community other than my 12 year membership and a little TRO mod, but I recommend putting the Spock drama behind the patch team and focusing only on development. It's widely known that Spock is anti-progress for anything that does not support his own agenda in at least some way. This is why he is angry that his hands have been/should be removed from the 1.5 patch development process. I've been away from that mess for nearly half a year and things, in general, run much more smoothly.
I also know that if you walk up to a rabid dog and try to calm it down and reach down to pet it, it will always bite you.
Anyway, just a word of experience.
Good luck with the 1.5 patch! I can't offer much for the development, but I'll be sure to download it upon release!
EDIT: Sorry I know it's my first post since I registered 8 months ago. :-P
I think Xtreme nailed it on the head. Lets get on with it
Spock and the rest of the community (Both sides) never had any control over how much/little Ken feels like doing for the game in the patch, I'm pretty sure he has his own plan that he will be following no matter what.
A mere mortal cannot stop a god. (Best comparison I can come up with.)
That is more than acceptable.
I'm just reiterating the fact that the drama is irrelevant and progress is inevitable. I'm fairly emotionally detached from most things, however even I was caught up in the nonsense a while back, but I grew up. Just a reminder to not let all the heat put a damper on the patch development.
I know everyone will be told on the "BZ1" forums that I'm some sort of hacker, but I don't really care much about that anymore. It's impossible to stop the man from posting rubbish.
Drama is one of the constants of the universe. :-D
Also...
Gozer: "ARE YOU A GOD?"
Ray: "No"
Gozer: "THEN DIE!" <zzzt!>
Winston: "Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"
lmao ghost buster <3
But if you say "Yes", do you still get to choose the form of the Destructor? :-D
Here comes the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man - time to double up on Flash Cannons...
I have to inject here that MY version of the Destructor would be more akin to that guy in Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life" who got to choose his own method of execution...
:-D
-Av-
I would choose the following as the destroyer: A butterfly the size of a microbe.
:-D
Would take a very very long time to destroy the planet.
Quote from: Snowcone
Sorry for the vulgarity, but why can't we all just get along and do raids on each others bases? :mrgreen:
Come on, if all this keeps up each site is going to start wearing campaign badges. If you get frustrated over this kind of internet bickering, you really need to step outside more often. Community separation doesn't do anything but hurt the game itself.
(http://blackcynic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/SayNo-Politics.png)
Yes I'm a fan of posting images in posts. I bet your mother is too :lol:
You know, I think that's the best it's ever been put. If only everybody would listen.
You're puting swear words here on a picture when you know it's a censored word?
Snowcone needs to tell that to spock not any of us.
I personally don't see what's wrong with a few swear words on forums now and again... the problem always comes when you get some middle schooler on a board who just has to go beyond the limits.
Quote from: Dx on December 01, 2009, 07:57:50 AM
You're puting swear words here on a picture when you know it's a censored word?
Snowcone needs to tell that to spock not any of us.
I wasn't about to edit the entire picture when I was posting in school.
And he already has done, post is from battlezone1.net.
No, the post isn't there, it's on free forums. That link was removed for a reason, how many BZU forum rules do you intend to break?
Quote from: Dx on December 01, 2009, 09:36:31 AM
No, the post isn't there, it's on free forums. That link was removed for a reason, how many BZU forum rules do you intend to break?
If he's posting, where will it be if not on the forums? Also, there is nothing in the forum ruls about posting links to other community sites.
You know posting links to sites with pirate software is not allowed here.
Quote from: Dx on December 01, 2009, 10:14:48 AM
You know posting links to sites with pirate software is not allowed here.
Pirated software. Which is not on battlezone.net's frontpage.
Also, quoting a forum post is not a link. :-D
I never said the quote was a link. :p
Quote from: Ultraken on December 01, 2009, 10:36:19 AM
Also, quoting a forum post is not a link. :-D
That was to be my next argument :P
I have looked it up and the installer is not inherrently illegal, but it sits quite neatly within the grey area surrounding BZ. Especially since it's the only way I know of to get it working on W7.
Quote from: AHadley on December 01, 2009, 10:47:11 AM
I have looked it up and the installer is not inherrently illegal
So copyright law doesn't last 90 years, great, when did you change it?
Quote from: AHadley on December 01, 2009, 10:47:11 AM
I have looked it up and the installer is not inherrently illegal, but it sits quite neatly within the grey area surrounding BZ.
While not blatantly objectionable like a warez copy of a currently-available title, it's still in that annoying category of "technically illegal" despite Activision and Atari's almost complete lack of interest in it.
(Of course, it's almost impossible to get through your day without doing something "technically illegal"...)
My point was to protect the forum. I see i'm wasting my time.
But if a mod. is going to post the same thing Spock did and he was banned for it and now it's ok, you should unban Spock and apologize to him.
Technically it isnt even a hyperlink. :evil:
<evil laugh?>
Caution is understandably warranted since trouble is often just a selective enforcement away.
I gather that there has been some colorful history regarding links to that site--and I'm much too casual about these things myself--but my take is that hosting an all-in-one installer for a single ten-year-old game should not make one so radioactive that linking to their forum jeopardizes this forum. The site administrators may see things differently, though...
Posting links to active warez sites is another matter entirely, since that can quickly bring down a world of hurt if not dealt with. That definitely calls for a proper smackdown and application of the banhammer.
It's all about finding the proper balance.
When we get down to it, we're all wasting our time. We've just found an entertaining way to do it. I even work in an industry whose entire purpose is to waste people's time in interesting ways. :-D
Anyway, back to kerfuffling!
Hey ken, I'm attending the IADT college, I hope to join you in that industry soon :-D
Games: It's jot just a job; it's a way of life! :-D
I'm at Drexel and lets not forget Steeveeo is at that place I forget the name of for Game and Simulation Programming (which seems to go front end inward while what I am learning is back end out, like they learn displacement maps when I learned ASM).
I wonder what will happen when we all get together in the future with programming skills.
Lol.
Quote from: Nielk1 on December 01, 2009, 01:52:15 PM
I'm at Drexel and lets not forget Steeveeo is at that place I forget the name of for Game and Simulation Programming (which seems to go front end inward while what I am learning is back end out, like they learn displacement maps when I learned ASM).
I wonder what will happen when we all get together in the future with programming skills.
For the 50th time, DeVry.
You would think I would know from the commercials.
Quote from: Steeveeo on December 01, 2009, 02:33:10 PM
For the 50th time, DeVry.
I'm attending DeVry as well, online though. Gotta love the virtual classroom.
Eddy
Quote from: Dx on December 01, 2009, 11:21:11 AM
My point was to protect the forum. I see i'm wasting my time.
But if a mod. is going to post the same thing Spock did and he was banned for it and now it's ok, you should unban Spock and apologize to him.
I would have to agree with this... consistancy is very important in my universe. The process in place should apply to all equally and be applied in the same steps and at the same pace.
Quote from: Ultraken on December 01, 2009, 11:56:58 AM
Caution is understandably warranted since trouble is often just a selective enforcement away.
I gather that there has been some colorful history regarding links to that site--and I'm much too casual about these things myself--but my take is that hosting an all-in-one installer for a single ten-year-old game should not make one so radioactive that linking to their forum jeopardizes this forum. The site administrators may see things differently, though...
I direct everyone to here: http://www.bzuniverse.com/forum/index.php/topic,7724.0.html (http://www.bzuniverse.com/forum/index.php/topic,7724.0.html)
It's exactly the "selective enforcement" issue that created the extremely sensitive environment here. A casual link to the front page of a site that somewhere on it has a "grey area" all-in-one installer for a single ten-year-old game that the developer and publisher no longer cares about is exactly what started the whole thing, simply because someone took it on themselves to bring CmptrWz's provider into the fray.
That step is why we are where we are with this stuff. The fact that I, too, am somewhat casual about such things is why there are radically different reactions depending on what Mod sees what post and when...
Still, I respect the Rend out of CmptrWz and will never knowingly do anything to cause him grief after ALL of the generosity and help he's given the Community. I hope everyone here feels the same.
-Av-
Ermm... there was just an 8th page... something about selective enforcement? ;)
Quote from: Avatar on December 01, 2009, 06:25:46 PM
It's exactly the "selective enforcement" issue that created the extremely sensitive environment here. A casual link to the front page of a site that somewhere on it has a "grey area" all-in-one installer for a single ten-year-old game that the developer and publisher no longer cares about is exactly what started the whole thing, simply because someone took it on themselves to bring CmptrWz's provider into the fray.
-Av-
I agree,
but at some point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_degrees_of_separation), you have to say what the hell.
I believe Dx said at some point that he had heard from Activision that they really don't care too much about what goes on with the game as long as no one is making illicit money from it, i.e. selling pirated discs or mods based on violations of the "new game materials" license, etc.
Maybe an official inquiry to Acti could be sent on this issue, though I expect they may draw the line at the all-in-one installer, just because of its implications for newer games still on the market.
Still, all of this is keeping the "Battlezone" genre alive, maybe Acti wouldn't mind someone providing such things if they also agreed to advertise for Activision on their site.
It's not up to Acti now, it's up to Atari Inc.
In my opinion, licensing the Battlezone name was a huge mistake since it got us the wrong sort of name recognition at the time and caused problems like this ever since. That's why Battlezone 2 was subtitled "Combat Commander"--we planned to shed the Battlezone name at some point.
If you guys had done that, I wouldn't be here :P
I got VERY lucky (also very excited) when I saw Battlezone II on a shelf in a used book store in 2003
It was more for the future of the series, had it continued.
Acti did the same thing with Civilization: Call To Power - they dropped the Civilization moniker (which they licensed from Sid Meier and Co.) when they released Call to Power II. IMO not such a good strategy - I think people associate quite a bit with the original names when looking for good sequels. Although IIRC they had no choice with CTP - Sid wanted his title back for Civilization III. :-D
I think using the name Battlezone was perfect for Battlezone 1 - superb 3d world, shooting tanks, radar - it all fits with the original.
Infinity Ward attempted the same with with the recent release of Modern Warfare 2, but so few people recognized it as the successor of Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare they were forced to add it in so people would pick up the title.
Yes, you'd miss it if Googling for it, too.
Lucasarts did the same with the Dark Forces Saga, which went from Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight to Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast. It was quite a significant change in the series, especially considering that it moved from id-Tech 2 to id-Tech 3, which is quite a leap in tech level even though it's only one number.