Battlezone Universe

WHY are u deleting post here some of the post are dissapearing mysteriously why would you do this they r on topic of the 1.3 beta??????? :cry:

I will let this thread stay as you created a new topic. I will note that I have been deleting posts in threads that are asking why posts were missing. It could be because the moderator felt they didn't belong in the thread. It could be because they were flaming. It could be any number of things. I don't know aside from the few I have deleted myself, usually PMing the person that made them.

General idea: If you want your post to stick around, keep it on topic and constructive.

ok then why was appel's post deleted i dont understand he was giving his view on the 1.3 patch isnt this the place to do it???? he jst stated goodbye to 1.3 he didnt want it and i made a reply that it his choice he can stay at 1.2 like other might an its just a split in the community

Myself and two moderators had a quick discussion and decided that it was too close to a flame thread.

They are deleting posts that do not go in favor of 1.3, very childish if you ask me... Isn't everybody allowed an opinion???

[EDITED OUT]

I expect this post to be deleted by the time I wake up... lol

[EDIT - Nope, just edited to remove your color tags and the blatant off-topic stuff]

This is abuse of the worst kind. 1.3 secret police? STASI? KGB? Why don't you guys just shoot us all?

I am deleting any post that is made solely to voice the opinion that you don't like 1.3. No matter where on the boards you make it. PERIOD.

Give a good reason(other then hovering being removed, which isn't a good reason and is currently flaming IMHO) and the post will not be removed by me. Unless it is seriously off-topic. Then I might remove it if I am too lazy to split it off into a new thread.

Appel, your recent post in this thread was deleted for the above reason.

So we can not say that we are not going to play 1.3 until you do something about the physics of the ships ???

Is that rite ?

90% of the people saying that really mean "We want to be able to hover", which was considered a bug and was squashed. Slightly sluggish ships is a valid complaint and may be entered in as such. Hovering is a bug that is gone now and may not be asked for again.

Major_Tom will be banned as soon as I get to the administrative panel.

WHO deleted appel's post??
He is a respected and reasonable member of the BzII online
gaming community. (No not the 'community boards')

We should know WHO deleted his post...

*sigh*

The point of this beta IS to TEST 1.3.

If you don't want to play it until the ship physics are changed then goodbye...  see you...  asta lavista...  don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out...  write when you get work...  

:)

Obviously it's important to get everyone's opinion.

However, once you've given your opinion either put up or shut up.  Either test and report or go away.  Don't just sit here and repeat over and over that you think 'something sucks'.  We've heard it, we get it, we understand it, now either get on with testing 1.3 or go back to 1.2.

Your choice.

-Av-

I saw that post that you are banning Major Tom for and I cant believe what you are like, he was simple pointing out that you are being unreasonable not letting us express out thoughts.

This isn't JUST about the hovering. This is how you guys are treating us! Detleting posts, editing them, banning users that are simply expressing their concerns about the 1.3 patch. I'm sorry to say, but you have gone too far.

whooo  wiz while I don't agree with these people and find their attitude to the patch a littlre narrow minded , they are still entitled to a voice here and I feel moderation of this forum has been a little over zealous and heavy handed .

If we carry on in this manner we risk alienating a large portion of the game's players .


whilst there is no possibility of hovering being reintroduced in 1.3 continued dialogue with those opposed to this move may be able to achieve some kind of compromise that we can all live with , if we just go stamping all over everyone elses opinions we'll split this community for sure .

I think it's time all sides involved took a deep breath and take some time to consider this issue .

Depending on the post I may be able to tell you who deleted it.

If it was in this thread, chances are it was me for reasons I have stated.

If it was in other threads, depends on the thread. If it was his own thread, it was for reasons listed above but not by me.

BTW, I won't tell anyone anything more then if I or someone else deleted it.

Quote from: CaptPicardI saw that post that you are banning Major Tom for and I cant believe what you are like, he was simple pointing out that you are being unreasonable not letting us express out thoughts.

You saw SOME of the posts. You didn't see the PM I got.

Quote from: appelThis isn't JUST about the hovering. This is how you guys are treating us! Detleting posts, editing them, banning users that are simply expressing their concerns about the 1.3 patch. I'm sorry to say, but you have gone too far.

Saying: "I won't play 1.3" and saying "I won't play 1.3 until the scout isn't so sluggish" are two different things, as is saying "I won't play 1.3 until this issue that I have been told a hundred times won't be changed back is changed back". The second of the three I am allowing. The first and third I am not.

Probably in response to u Cutting him out and deleting his posts, u need to learn how to moderate a board m8.

ok this might get deleted but i feel this is a choice of yours if u dont want to convert to this new patch its up to you this is ur choice as a human being and controlling ur own life like i said before this might just b a split in the community but its ur choice sorry to the moderators if im out of bunds here :?

Off-topic and flame posts are fair game for deletion. See the forum rules(linked to in my sig and next to the login/logout button) for confirmation. I believe they are classified as "spam".

As for the 1.2/1.3 issue, yes it is your choice. Let others make their choice, don't go around telling everyone on the forums not to use 1.3 just because you don't like it. Let them make their own opinion.

The reasons why we are on other forums is because we CAN NOT POST OUR OPINIONS HERE. If you actually listened to us and discussed it civilly then this all wouldn't of happened.

"Will not, can not, will never ever be put back in!"...."Just let them steam for a while"...."Hovering is a bug!"..."Funny to see vets whine!"..."Get over it!"..

I don't get it, I won't get over it and my steam won't go away unless this issue is resolved by some agreement by the "two sides".

I DID NOT TELL ANYONE TO USE OR NOT TRY THE NEW PATCH I AM JUST TELLING THOSE WHO DO NOT like or want to USE IT THE GAME IS NOT OVER DO NOT PUT UR MEANINGS INTO MY POST PLZ THAT MIGHT B HOW U HAVE INTERPRETED MY POST BUT THAT IS NOT HOW THEY HVE BEEN WRITTENor meant

We have been down this road before with Cmptwz.  A kid with his hand on the button.  Its ludicrous to edit posts in this manner.

I don't feel hovering is that big an issue.  The very best games I have played are not influenced by the "pulp" hovering that is so embraced by many of the clans.

The 1.3 games I have played feel sluggish and almost slow motion at points.  I'm reserving judgment pending further testing.

<FLY>ReCoN

I was pointing out that you were correct, FRYIN_PAN, but also why I was deleting other people's posts.

appel: The hovering issue is CLOSED. PERIOD. If you don't like it, stay away from 1.3 AND THE 1.3 FORUMS.

CaptPicard: On-topic, constructive, non-flaming, non-"generic" I don't like it, non-hovering opinions are fine. If you are off-topic, non-constructive, flaming, giving a generic "I just don't like 1.3", or talking about bringing hovering back then your post is liable to vanish.

Quote from: CaptPicardThe reasons why we are on other forums is because we CAN NOT POST OUR OPINIONS HERE. If you actually listened to us and discussed it civilly then this all wouldn't of happened.

It sounds like Major Tom made it personal with Wiz, taking it to PM.  Without reading the PM we can't judge, but it sounds like MT pulled Wiz's chain pretty good.

I agree with Lizard, everyone should have their say.  Unfortunately some take it too far, tossing their 2cents into each and every post regardless of how many times they've already posted it.

Say it, then get on with testing or go back to 1.2.

-Av-

hey appel i was in favor of ur opinion at one time now ur r getting alittle off topic lol stay in topic or they will close plz

QuoteIf you are off-topic, non-constructive, flaming, giving a generic "I just don't like 1.3", or talking about bringing hovering back then your post is liable to vanish.

Things not going so well at junior high?  Those mean jocks give you a wedgy follwed up with a swirly?

Damn kid, get a grip.

On topic/Off topic..what a load of crap wiz, your just deleteing the "less than positive 1.3 ideas" because you are so married to 1.3.

Well..I never got married too it..(I did do a little dancing with it)....But I'll repeat what I said loooong ago and in every forum, 1.3 will stand or fall on its merits.

IF it falls it is for 1 reason...Yeah...You got it, vehicle physics.

But *I* know 1.3s warts go a bit beyond JUST the physics.  *IF* enough serious high skill MP games do get played, those warts will be visable. Maybe Nathan will be willing to listen, but if not..the prince shall remain a toad.

The vehicle physics could be tweaked further for "better" feel...But Nathan never wanted to hear my comments when I was in the beta then, so I doubt any suggestions or comments from me will result in any change. So I'll just plink around with 1.3 like the rest of the minions.

Unfortunate, remove the whole vehicle physics issue and 1.3 is(with further fixing of balance issues) BZ 2's NEXT BIG THING....But instead BECAUSE of vehicle physics is..1.3 is a well..."what coulda been".

I understand CmptrWz when he deletes threads called, "Im leaving 1.3 forever", it's like a kid throwing a fit. I want as many people to play 1.3 as possible and when you have people bashing and ranting about how horrible it is without always stating why. Its a Beta, please politly open a thread and tell us all about what is wrong with 1.3 and why and we will all have a nice intelligent discussion of it. Pretend like your talking to Ken and Nathan, would you run in and tell them that there months of work sucks right before you tell them why, maybe even fart on them? :s

However.....

When CmptrWz kills a thread that is both a rant flame and has valid information, that is wrong.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please, lets not say things suck and throw propaganda on the BZ game servers. This is not protest. Tell the 1.3 players, not the 1.2 players, let the 1.2 players experience 1.3 for themselves.

Major Tom was sending me and TV insulting emails for month now.
He never fails to find an opportunity to attack us on the boards.

So think about it: what do you do if I would come into your house, tell you what a bad housekeeper you are, that your house looks like hoot. That you are a complete idiot and have no clue what you are doing? Guess what Major Tom got just thrown out of my house.

That is understandable Fishbone.  I would have done the same thing, even tough I haven't received any personal PMs from him.  I have seen his posts, which were very disrespectful and insulting.  I don't think I have ever seen a constructive post from Major Tom.

You can talk all you want on other boards. However, the odds of that affecting 1.3-final are less than zero. Basically, if your whole point is to rant, have fun elsewhere.

If you want to be listened to, then you've got to figure out how to present ideas so they'll be accepted. Some have failed miserably at this task. Look at them, and do something different from them.

-- GSH

Good suggestion GSH. However, from wut I've read, a lot of these posts you speak of seem to have already been removed. Is this wut one would call a catch-22?

As for a constructive 1.3-oriented opinion, the flashing outline that occurs when the player is deciding where a building will go wasn't such a good idea. IMO, I find it a little annoying, and would prefer 1.2's steady transparent outline instead.

(I'm pretty sure I'm on-topic in this thread. If not, feel free to shut me up. :p)

If you don't like it on your rig, a selection to turn it off was considerately placed in Options\Graphics.

Whupz. Must have missed that. :p

Quote from: GSHYou can talk all you want on other boards. However, the odds of that affecting 1.3-final are less than zero. Basically, if your whole point is to rant, have fun elsewhere.

If you want to be listened to, then you've got to figure out how to present ideas so they'll be accepted. Some have failed miserably at this task. Look at them, and do something different from them.

-- GSH

The protesting usually comes form not enough public input to the project, not just a select few being rash, however, unfortunately, the select few are the only ones you will hear from in a negative manner.
Nobody cares how you feel about anything with exception to a few, however many more in the background care about how you affect their game.

I remember some of the discussions being held about the "hover bug".

I also remember how closed minded you were about any comments about the subject.

So the protesting now should be no surprise. The reaction of moderators to put down the protesting should be no surprise.

GSH you are the true cause of the trouble which you could have damped to some minor objections not requiring moderation had you allowed a heated debate to run it's course somwhere.

What happened here is pent up frusteration.

Like I said nobody cares how you feel about anything with the exception to a few, but many do care about how you will be affecting their game.

This is a civil response if this gets deleted I will post a copy of it at Gameraters just to show the ignorance.

Although I find these arguments always quite entertaning, the way things are handled by those holding the power (of changing game code or moderating boards) are not at all constructive. Geeks at power ...

The way things are handled (and Im sure will keep getting handled because the few who are in control have a childish enjoyment of their power) 1.3 wont deserve the name 1.3 because for most online players out there it will be just another mod.

Balance and Unit Performance go hand in hand.

Balance was avoided during the private Beta simply because it inflamed people without resolving things AND because the beta group was recognized as a small percentage of those playing the game.  To truly balance things requires a consensus.

The point of the public Beta is to identify remaining bugs AND provide balance input.  Unfortunately all it took was two minutes of playing by some people and BLAM! the "no hover? this sucks" messages started.  Only now are actual constructive posts showing up IF you can find them among the whining...

Play.  Decide what's wrong.  Post about it in a direct, civil manner in the appropriate thread if there is one.  This is how constructive information is passed along.

-Av-

no more mouthy mention of whining please.

I don't whine, I tell it like it is and you just don't like to hear it.

I stand by what I said GSH could have avoided a lot of this by allowing it to vent elsewhere, instead he just closed his mind.

you want specifics fine I want to see a 10 point increase in

velocStrafe
accelThrust
and a 3 or so increase in

acceljump

on ISDF scout, tank and missle scout

on Scion scout and sentry

If jump changing a few things will fix it fine, I have my doubts, but I will let you guys do the changes.

Quote from: deadscionno more mouthy mention of whining please.

I don't whine, I tell it like it is and you just don't like to hear it.

So far you've been one of the more constructive posters, Deadscion, and you shouldn't always jump in as if the preceding post were aimed at you.

Especially in this case...  I don't consider your posts whining at all, but there are a few people here who's posts have been 10/10 whining about either hovering, politics, or some other BS that isn't constructive.  

GSH is blunt online and as one of the two people donating their time he has a right to be.  Demanding things from him or flaming him when he's done this out of his own pocket (so to speak) is ingratitude at it's worst.

-Av-

We will see where this 1.3 leads us, I hope things get better in 1.3 Public Beta 2!

Quote from: AvatarUnfortunately all it took was two minutes of playing by some people and BLAM! the "no hover? this sucks" messages started.  Only now are actual constructive posts showing up IF you can find them among the whining...

Two things about all this. The first would be that people generally don't like change from the status quo. Of course there will be some posts from people who play a quick game and then decide they hate it. Accept it, take it for what it's worth(which is a little more than the credit you're giving it, but more on that in a bit), and find out why if they don't actually post the reason. After all, this is a public beta test and you can't expect just everyone in the community to line up behind the thing right off the bat.

The second point, and this is the biggie. You and Wiz aren't helping the process it all. You're making a sham of it. You're both waving your hands dismissively of anyone that posts a criticism of the patch by calling them whiners or flamers. Wiz is taking it one step further with locking threads because they could turn in to a flame war at some point - but I have yet to see him crack down on anyone calling someone that doesn't like the patch a whiner.  

Now, maybe the public beta is a sham and the whole point of it is to say nice things about the patch without criticisms about the physics or other things. I just can't see Ken and Nathan spending their free time off and on over the last three years toiling over a game that a few people really love without actually wanting their opinions on both sides, though. That would be irrational. I think the best point was made in another thread, one that actually got locked, when someone said, "What's the point of spending all that time doing it if many people won't like it?" It's a really good point. Let it sink in, because if this patch doesn't fly(pardon the pun), you've got a small community made smaller by a big, fat division here. To put it simply, division is bad. Tossing around names like whiner and alienating the people who are having complaints by locking threads about the patch certainly doesn't help at all.

All that aside, thanks to Ken and Nathan for the work on the patch. I'm looking forward to playing with it over the next few days. Happy that the AI got some work, since that was my biggest beef with the game since it first came out.

can my next post be about MY OPNION about hover without it being deleted?

i need to ask for premession for this stuff from players i never see gosh

im sorry to be rude but who let you decide the future of bz2?

St. P, I'm the one asking that everyone be allowed to express their opinions.  I may have overused the 'whine' bit a little but I do expect everyone to have their say and have expressed that to Wiz.  A few of the initial "this sucks" posters took it too far in email and PM with Wiz and he reacted accordingly.  I can't blame him, when someone makes it personal it's hard to just swallow it.

No, this beta isn't about everyone lining up with praise.  It's not the other way around, though, either.  Grumbling/griping is expected as long as it's done civilly.  Poking into each thread repeating the same stuff over and over is whining, though.  I have no other definition for it.

When someone has 20 posts, and all 20 posts are "this sucks", I call it whining.

-Av-

So far, with certain people blaming everything they dislike about 1.3 on me, they're earning themselves a trip to my mental ignore list. Tip: read the changelog. Note who did things. I did a lot, but I didn't do everything I've been accused of.

Accusations that are factually wrong earn yourself a trip to my mental s**tlist faster than anything else. Several of you have racked up considerable problems there. If you want to be listened to, then please listen to what I just said -- that's what you're insisting I do, is it not?

-- GSH

yo avatr..

im sorry that it has to be here.. since the hardcore players arent active here nor care about this forums
but when 1.3 was posted and if we want to change something to what we - the real hardcore players - who play this game for 4 , 5 years and play it a hell lot more then you want.... we want some stuff to... dont mean to be rude or anything but we are keeping the game...
and we cant even say what we want? i dont think the future look bright for bz2 if u gonna ignore us like that... im already thinking of moding 1.3 to waht we, the vets, the real players wants

now about 20 posts here that are all whinnig...
as i said above... it was chosen to be here, where we the vets dont go...
but its the future of our bz2... so we come here...
dont like it? start checking the clans and hardcore palyers forums.. those that keep the game alive..

Everything around this 1.3 patch has sucked, from my perspective. I download it, install and play it in a very good faith. I post my comments and concerns, and then I'm just told to STFU, "Get over it!" and my posts are either locked, deleted or censored! And I'm not the only one treated this way.
What gives you the darn right to do that?

If you want the opinions of the most hardcore BZ2 players then you have to ACCEPT their opinions. What we think IS important. We are the reason BZ2 has lived so long, and that's the TRUTH! Not some developers that don't even play this game.

If you release a product that nobody likes, then nobody is going to buy/play that product and I hate to see that happen with the 1.3. But it's as simple as that.

BZ2 isn't about one programmer, finishing his work, completing his once in a lifetime project, finally being able to close this chapter of his life by programming all the bugs out. "Make it right!" He can do that for himself, don't force these fundamental changes upon us all and divide the community while doing that.


Me and everybody want 1.3 to work, to be a success and want to use it. But do not ignore us.

Although I might not of put it like PF did, I have to agree with him on this. Most of the hardcore gamers(Like me, who play atleast 5hours+ of online bz2 per day) don't visit these forums. I started off on these forums, and started to think certain ppl here where the be all and end all of bz2. Then I got accepted into some clans, and I found a whole other part of this bz2 community, one alot bigger, and more active then this section.

Try visiting
www.gel-guild.net
www.loc-clan.com
www.bac-clan.com
www.fly-clan.com
www.vnb-clan.com
plus a few other clans that are popping up around the place.

Make a post, and say hi, then ask how many play bz2 actively. You might be suprised at the size of this community that you don't notice, simply because they are not on this board.

Sadly, it is this, very dedicated section of the community that rarely gets hard, or listened to by the Modding(patching) community. Why? Because our perspectives of bz2 are alot different, therefore we dismiss alot of your views as newbish, and you dismiss alot of our views as lame. Not a very productive work enviroment...

We see people here posting stuff about how good scion mualers are, whereas, if you played with us, it will not work, just because we have played so often over the last 3/5 years, that it is more then easily countered. Almost all of us know the Tech tree inside out, and can tell you both the default and custom price of units.

On the otherside of the coin, we have been known to not concern ourselves with less eperienced/skilled players opinions, even though they should be catered for since not all of us are HC gamers.

For example, I know I can beat stock 1.2 mpi without building a single scav. All I need is pods to take down the computers base, whereas some players might find it ok.

So, my plea is to both sides.
1) The people here. PLEASE take the time to listen to any gripes we might come here with. Don't be too quick to dismiss them as "Not being able to adapt", there might be alot of valid points that could make this game almost unplayable for the HC bz2 community.

2) to the HC players. PLEASE don't come here just "Whinning". Give you opinions in a civilised and CONSTRUCTIVE way. Simply complaining won't get our opinions listened too. Take the time too explain WHY you think this could ruin the bz2 gaming experience.

Sorry this post was too long. I just don't want to see this patch "die", or this community divide even more then it is because too parts of this community can't communicate with each other.

There's no denying you vet players are extraordinary players.  I've been playing for for years now and I can't hold a candle to you guys.  The time and effort you have spent on it, your skills and detailed understanding of the tactics and strategy necessary for winning, the mods you make are humbling and impressive.

Would you like it it someone came along and told you you stank up the place after all your years of hard work just because of one thing you didn't like?  Would you invite them out the door?  I would.  And some have and rightly so.

First, it show a complete lack of respect to the people who have sacrificed *so much* to get to this point, especially by Nathan.

Second, it shows a complete lack of civility witnessed by their bad manners, which actually precipitates the first point.  If people do nothing else in their lives, they should at least develop and show good manners.

We all love Battlezone II.  No denying it.  It is unique. We are that "merry band of brothers", the proud and loyal few.  Because we all love it, we are passionate about it and, because of that, our passions sometimes make us say things which are counterproductive.  But make no mistake about it,  we all do love it and we all want it to be the very best it can be.

Now, having said that, we all know - and have known for years - that *default* Scout hovering is gone for good because it was discovered that it was caused by a math error in the code for that unit - a bug if you will, which was corrected.

So what can be done for the players that like default Scout hovering and like 1.3?  How can they have both?

It being so early in the beta release, many probably have not taken the time to read the changelog and have instead taken the opportunity to vent their pent-up emotions at the first opportunity and have more or less just shot from the hip, not realizing what Nathan, Ken, and the other programmmers at Pandemic, Greenheart, Commando, and many others have *given* them.

That apparently being the case, those people need to take some time to go through the changelog and see all the new flexibilty introduced.

Ability to add multiple new races - 26!.
Ability to add multiple new Recyclers
Ability to add multiple new AI
etc.
etc.

With a new Recycler, you would be able to make a ship which not only hovers, but flys as well.

With the ability to use new and different Recyclers, you can make new Service Trucks and Constructors which can make new Factories and Armories and a new *anything*.

With a new race, you will be able to make races where *everybody* flys if you want.

With a new AI, you will be able to make an AI where they *all* fly if you want.

Go crazy.  :-)

So guys, don't let one thing which bothers you blind you to all the new possibilities out there now thanks to all the hard work from the 1.3 team, especially Nathan, Ken, the rest of the guys at Pandemic, and GreenHeart and Commando.

And if I have mispoke or said something in error, please correct me.

LOL, speaking of which see GreenHeart's sticky at the top of this board.  :-)

See?  Much ado about nothing, all's well that ends well and all that.

Flying is a physics bug, fixed in code, and I don't think ODF changes can restore it.

You're welcome to tweak ODFs all day. Once you leave out the bile directed at me, ODF tweaks have a better chance of being accepted. Seriously, some people seem dedicated to the idea of trying to piss me off *and* make me listen to them. Pick one.

-- GSH

I like some of what I just read, it's a step in the right direction.  Maybe the chaos is almost over?  :)

I don't like the hints I'm getting about "real" players again.  That attitude sucks.  We dealt with the same thing early in the beta and it sucked bigtime.  No one player, no one clan, no one game type (DM/Strat/etc.) is ALL of BZ2.  We need to respect all views because I doubt even the clans listed in the URL list above see the game exactly the same way, regardless of how many hours they play.  

We're all different, we all have things we like/hate, we all deserve civility, respect, and the chance to state our views.  Politely.

-Av-

Flying is simply a cheat/bug. This was already seen in bz1.
Ship physics are now (already) perfect. THEY ARE REALISTIC AND LESS ASSHOLIhoot !

U can still fly in bz2, you just cant make endless escape runs high to the sky and u cant hover rec.

1.3 just needs more skills and u cant be asshole anymore.

If u prefer to be opposite, for sure it dosent make things better.
Be polite.

Quote from: AvatarI don't like the hints I'm getting about "real" players again.  That attitude sucks.

Now Avatar, that exact prevailing attitude stating players who spend 4-5 hours daily for 4 years competing with The Best Players in the World *are not* entitled to consider themselves "real players" is exactly why all the skilled players left beta. It's also why almost none of them frequent these boards.

You know im getting sick of.
You guys still ignore the fact that people loved the game as it was but the few things they hated got fixed. But then a few things they loved got ereased.

It's just ignorance just saying it's a physics bug and it shouldn't be there. C'mon it takes you guys this long to produce a patch and people started to like the way it was. Now you guys release this patch and you just ignore the things that has to be changed.

Listen to people who play the game.
The newer guys will surely love this new patch but imho it's just total disrespect of the players who played this game since day one. THEY made this game live, THEY made the game exciting to continue, THEY made this game a challenge for the new guys to live for. If it wasn't for them there wouldn't be any players left cus there wasn't any challenge anymore.

And this so called improvement is improving some things but c'mon if people don't like it they won't play it and you guys spent 2-3 years making a patch and see the community die in 2 months. Thank you very much.

Quote from: spAce
U can still fly in bz2, you just cant make endless escape runs high to the sky and u cant hover rec.

1.3 just needs more skills and u cant be asshole anymore.

Well, you can fly high into the sky to escape, it's just that you come down again a little later.   :D

And some people still fly inside the ISDF Rec with a pummel scout.   :evil:

Uh oh aoug.  So then just put a turret at the door.  That would be a nice welcome.

Quote from: TimeVirus

Quote from: AvatarI don't like the hints I'm getting about "real" players again.  That attitude sucks.

Now Avatar, that exact prevailing attitude stating players who spend 4-5 hours daily for 4 years competing with The Best Players in the World *are not* entitled to consider themselves "real players" is exactly why all the skilled players left beta. It's also why almost none of them frequent these boards.

LOL, you KNOW where this leads...

The 'attitude' part is inherent in them considering ONLY their views as important, exactly the thing they're accusing the "not REAL players" of doing.  They can't see the hypocrisy inherent in that.

Feel how you want about yourself but do unto others as you would have done to you.  When BZ2 first came out the "REAL" DM players left because they felt those scab Strat players didn't understand the "REAL" game of BZ.  The DMers had spent YEARS playing BZ and were the only ones who knew what the game REALLY was.

Now the "REAL" Strat players are pulling the same sh!t (again) without even seeing they're doing it...  

*sigh*  

It's always so clear from MY point of view...  it's the OTHER guy that has the problem.

:)

We need to hear from ALL points of view, weigh the possibilities and needs, and do the best we can for everyone.  I like seeing the Unit variants FINALLY being tested.  It's time to address the Balance issues and everyone is needed for that, regardless of how inflated their egos are...  

-Av-

Man often has chronic neurosis to prevent new things happen in the world.
(it is safe to stick in the old and known)

Well, c ya on the 1.3 field..

Space wasn't that you yesterday, who as my teammate shot my hull to half then team killed my pilot as I was sniping in the enemy base? I found it an interesting welcome to 1.3.  :s

QuoteUh oh aoug. So then just put a turret at the door. That would be a nice welcome.

Yeah, maybe you can use your time machine to go back to the part where aougs teammates just lost their ships, the pools are under attack from the lone chain commander and there is 3 turrets in base guarding sensitive areas on both sides of the recy and behind the factory, maybe then you can suddenly appear and say 'put a turret behind your recy, no you dont need scavs or ships, the unlikely event of pumm rushed by a lone noob in the back of your recy is upon you' maybe you can go back then and tell him that.  :D

QuoteWhen BZ2 first came out

Who cares about hoote that happened "when BZ2 first came out"? The DM'ers never stick around for long, the MPI'er play their games of Starfleet and are gone in a matter of weeks (except for a few), its the same old hoot and the *real* players are the ones who stick through it and who still play after all these years, and you know the game that keeps them playing? Its called Strat, its not called DM, and its not called MPI.

I look forward to playing some good games with 'avatar', the same one who thinks he can define what real players are, because after 2 1/2 years in the Battlezone, I still havent had the privilige.

There is nothing else i can say than sorry.
Didnt notice ur hull damage at all and i dont understand what u were sniping inside rec (dont know if u can shoot trough rec walls)

Maybe i made strategic mistake by thinking that u are more usefull in ship killing scavs.. sorry tv

didnt have chance to say it earlier cause u left..

Quote from: Zero Angelthe *real* players are the ones who stick through it and who still play after all these years, and you know the game that keeps them playing? Its called Strat, its not called DM, and its not called MPI.

That's odd.  When playing DM or an MPI, I FEEL like I'm *real*.  Must be an illusion.

Quote from: Zero AngelWho cares about hoote that happened "when BZ2 first came out"? The DM'ers never stick around for long, the MPI'er play their games of Starfleet and are gone in a matter of weeks (except for a few), its the same old hoot and the *real* players are the ones who stick through it and who still play after all these years, and you know the game that keeps them playing? Its called Strat, its not called DM, and its not called MPI.

Speak for yourself dude I am a dedicated MPI'er to the end.

NP Space, I realize it was just a misunderstanding. I was just making the point to counter your remarks about 1.3 removing assholish behaviour which of course is ridiculous. In another game my base was hover camped the entire game. Hover is gone? Ha! The turrets are apparently powerless against scouts arcing over them.

Um yeh, it was in jest that I told him that. I already know he knows how to deal with it as I play with aoug alot.

Yes, its an illusion, all in your head. *waves hands*  :D

Forgot about your crowd DS  :oops: . I meant to say that most MPI players that i've seen are gone in a matter of weeks. The dedicated strat playing crowd seems larger overall; thus composing most of the 'real' players. And yes, you Nuke and DS are dedicated players and the fact that you guys host games for the rest of the community and put up with newbs like the rest of us make you 'real' players and real assets.

Quote from: {VnB}AegeisUm yeh, it was in jest that I told him that. I already know he knows how to deal with it as I play with aoug alot.

Yeah, I know. I'm just yanking your chain, bud  :lol:

Quote[quote="Zero Angel]I look forward to playing some good games with 'avatar', the same one who thinks he can define what real players are, because after 2 1/2 years in the Battlezone, I still havent had the privilige.

*SIGH*

I'm not the one defining what "REAL" players are, I'm the one saying we're ALL real players.  It's the "REAL" players that are saying only THEY are "REAL" players.  I find that offensive and arrogant.

I don't deny that Strat should be set up for Strat players.  I've never said otherwise.  I only ask that they stuff their arrogance and give everyone the respect they deserve, and realize that some aspects of the game may have to compromise so that all game types benefit.  I highly respect the opinions of players like WD(FE), TV, etc. when it comes to aspects of Strat that are 'on the line'.  Every effort should be made to make the Strat game what Strat Players enjoy.

You wouldn't enjoy playing me in a Strat as I'd be no challenge.  You'd walk all over Ice and me in the first few minutes.  I'd hate to waste your time like that.

I don't enjoy Strat.  I like DM, COW games, MPI and 'tinkering under the hood'.  I'm more modder than anything else I guess...

-Av-

Thanks for clearing that up.

Thank you for listening.  I ramble sometimes...

It's all about respect in so many parts of our lives.  A little respect for others goes a LONG way, and you won't get it unless you give it.

A personal note:

The day Wardog left the beta was a very dark day for me.  Of all the Strat Players I know he seems to have an instinctive grasp of what's important to the FUN part of the game.  He's a very REAL guy, with only a touch of arrogance...  :)   I relied heavily on his input as to what was going wrong balance-wise, and tried to get him to hang in there through the boring part (bug hunts) until balance could be addressed.

NOW is the time for the Strat players to hammer on the game, trying variants of units to refine them into the fun toys they should be.  I'm sure us Modders will be only too happy to run the toys through their paces to get them in shape for the long haul...

-Av-

well avatr we hmm ill use other word the long time players (is that ok?)
were barly asked, as it was said we "almost" have our own community and we dont check this boards, we get alot of disrespect to you guys - its 2 sided


but think of something... lets say u studied hmm i dont know u studied A for 5 years... then comes some1 that just read a lil book of 10 pages about A
and tells you what to do and how A works and how to do A
im sure ull get pissed....

its not exactly the same but thats the way i feel and i think alot of other long time players feel...
i accutly see your behavior as arrogant by not consulting us and forcing us to do stuff without listening to us, by deleting our posts with our opnions
we got pissed - i think we're allowed to...
but if u just delete and lock it'll just make them (or us) just madder
talk politetly - act maturer - i tihnk thats the way to calm them down and still act smarter

my moto is "getting pissed is punshing yourself over stupiedy of others"
and no offense to you guys but i think strat invovled both Strat and DM (and mpis - bla) now, even though you might playing dm for along time im sure if ill get a strat player that play same time he'll be more skillful..
but again - w/e makes you hf.. thats what the game is for
but i think we - the long time players deserve some more respect due to donating and "studing" it like with A example above...

I know what you're saying, but it can be turned around....  

The DM'ers thought the exact same way about Straters.  The DM'ers couldn't adapt, and didn't stick around to try to help make the game fun for them, too.  Now they're almost gone.

I don't want the current Strat players to end up the same way.  They shouldn't run off in disgust.  I don't want them dissing the rest of the players, but I don't want them going away either.  They need to stay.  They need to experiment.  They need to report what's good, what's bad, and what needs to change.  There's a good start with what DeadScion suggested being tested right now.

People need to NOT throw a tantrum if what they want can't be done for some reason.  Testing takes huge amounts of patience and understanding.  Come up with alternatives.  Suggest changes, don't demand them.  Understand that there's a LOT of different views and have some patience when everyone is shouting at the same time.

Just don't give up.  This is when we need to hear views in a clear, helpful voice.

-Av-

alright, i guess you got some points...

now, 1 lil question

is it ok that i open a topic - maybe u can even stick it about hovering...
why its taken away, civilized posts - everything....
cause "it wasnt intend to be" doesnt stasify me... and its fun for those who lerant it - bah can we just open a civilized topic about it?
once and for all? plz?

Ok i think a civilized thread about this would be good but imho the anger and commotion between players and developers comes from both sides.

Please with all respect accept that people who played this patch first were dissapointed and angry too. They might have posted some bad things but it was with a good thought to "improve" this patch. But when the post was with the slitest "disrespect" it got removed. It's understandable that everyone who worked hard for this patch thinks it's disrespect for them but when you just remove the posts it will make the players angry too.

So please can we cut this out? Just let people post and show some understanding. Avatar i think you're trying to help but you're still getting back on the way bz2 was ment to be. You got to think in the here and now. This game has been released a long time ago and people like it the way it is. I think this mess hadnt took place if you guys just listened to everyone.

You may talk about it as much as you want however:

Ken, an original Pandemic programmer, rewrote the physics code. Hovering is gone for good.

Its sad how many people will post in this thread and how few will post in the thread regarding actually fixing scout speeds and other things that bug people.

look - ill be honost , i havnt had time to play 1.3... i havnt play games since hmmm a week ago.. i formatted and still recovering some stuff and hoot... anyways what i would like to see without even knowning how the game is - is hovering

i can live without it - but i wanna know why...
just waiting for an ok from the mods / admins to open a topic dedicated to hover without it being delted like the previous ones

I thought the no-hover sucked before I in the 1.3 team. Once I tried it, it was much better than I thought it was and I liked it.

If you haven't played it, then really, shut up, sorry.

i know more then enough to talk about things i know... if i didnt have a clue i would shut up - but i do know

I can't speak for Greenheart or Wiz, but I personally think such a thread wouldn't last a day without becoming a flamefest.  Major Tom apparently took it to email and PM which was waaaay overstepping good sense.

There's been ONE thing that both Ken and GSH have been adamant about since the beginning, and that's the removal of 'hovering'.  They've maintained all along that it's a bug.  That no ship should be able to stay in the air forever through the use of reverse thrust.  It's been coded out of the engine and isn't coming back.

It's tough to accept for some people but I don't think anything on Earth will change their minds.  The best thing to do is to work on getting the game to be as fun as possible for the broadest range of players without hovering.

-Av-

You can still catch some air and slowly sink to the ground, but you're not going to stay up there indefinitely and slide around at will.

Avatar:"The day Wardog left the beta "

Let's be clear..I did not walk away..although I do admit I was extremely frustrated and tired of the process.


I was Booted out. Thank you..I had much less aggrevations I had to deal with as a result.

Life goes on just fine.

OK, well, yeah.

:(

You and Nathan got on each other's nerves bigtime I think.  I was trying to be circumspect about it...  

Still, NOW is the time to get in there and dig out the balance issues.  

We need you, man.  Gather up the "Real" :) players and pound on this puppy, then give a list of what's needed to address balance.

-Av-

QuoteFile Link Remove: Closing Experiment Recycler Variant for now...


ok now they are deleting links that sounded like a good idea to satisfy vets that want to hover and those who dont, why is this happening why do things get scrubed so fast around here??????

QuoteDarkFox
BZ2CP Development



Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 188
Location: England

    I believe the link was removed because GSH was pretty upset about flying being back in, even in the form of a 'server options' mod.
Don't expect it to stay possible in the final version of 1.3 that comes out.


is this true?????

Answer the man. He has asked a fair and civilized question.

Answer the man GSH, are you going to be vindictive as DarkFox is suggesting or will you allow the New Recycler variant for hovering to function?

you wanna step back and chill a little DS , how would you feel if you'd spent 2 yrs of your spare time working on something only to be attacked and slagged off when it's released .

I think it's time to take a break from the Nathan bashing for a while  .

Shaddup Lizard. GSH is a big boy and can speak for himself. I am asking HIM this question not you.

And it is a fair question.

Is it a fair question ? seems to me you jump on his back every chance you get . Stop trying to get yerself a reputation for once and give the guy a break .

Get out of the way and let GSH answer the question. Your opinion is irrelevent. GSH can speak for himself.

You are not GSH.

It's not like he's watching these boards 24/7, either.  The man has to make a living and does have other interests besides reading hate mail...

-Av-

Quote from: deadscionGet out of the way and let GSH answer the question. Your opinion is irrelevent. GSH can speak for himself.

You are not GSH.

and you are nobody , so why should he answer to your demands ...... touche I think .

GSH has been in and out of here several times in the last hour. Nobody needs to speak for him he can answer the question himself.

Come on GSH.

shut up Lizard calling me nobody only shows your ignorance.

How do you know GSH has even read this topic?

Deadscion, I will say this once and once only:

BACK OFF

If GSH wants to reply, he will. If he doesn't, he won't. Your insistance that he does is probably one reason he hasn't responded.

Keep on insisting that GSH post, when you normally want him to post LESS, and I will either lock the topic or remove your right to post for 48 hours or so, depending on my mood when I do so.

Well, I believe we need an answer to that question, but however, I think GSH deserves a break from all this, I know I would be going mad. I've been testing 1.3 thourougly and it's not as bad as I originally thought. But still needs some ships tweaking, which me and Aegeis are currently working on.

The insistence some people have on being jerks pro-flying demands a response. Fine.

I can't prevent ODFs from being added later. I recognize that.

However, as the pro-flying-jerks have tried their best to annoy me, they will get an appropriate response.

Ingame.

You would have been a lot happier if you'd kept your big mouths shut and had your jollies (and temper tantrums) in private, where they belong. Deal with it. Elsewhere.

-- GSH

Good grief, DS, get a grip.  You're reminding me of that spoiled little kid we've all seen lying down in the store aisle throwing a tantrum when he/she doesn't immediately get what they want and whom we walk by shaking our heads, skin crawling.  Sheesh!

im not a pro hoverer or non prohoverer just was trying to figure out if darkfox had told the truth or if its a rumor . i understand u wanted to fix a mistake or an oversigth in the game but when others are just tryin to help satisfy the community's grips with alittle tweak of the ships why would u be so againts it u did ur job already didnt u???

QuoteDarkFox
BZ2CP Development



Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 188
Location: England

I believe the link was removed because GSH was pretty upset about flying being back in, even in the form of a 'server options' mod.
Don't expect it to stay possible in the final version of 1.3 that comes out.


is this true?????

GSH still has not answered the question. Of course he can't stop ODF's from being added.

The question is will GSH code something to prevent the possiblilty of flight regardless of ODF changes?

as GSH has already stated he can't do anything to stop people modifying ODF's , I guess that your answer , I'm sure they aren't gonna rewrite the whole physics engine to make it impossible it would be way too much work . If people want hovering back my guess is that it will come in the form of a mod .

Welcome to:

As the Stomach Turns

Today's episode:
"Hoverbug Histronics"

THRILL to read DS question GSH's commitment, manhood, and patriotism!  SEE Frying Pan ask "WHY ARE YOU PICKING ON ME"  HEAR GSH flatly state "Deal with it"

Will the hoverbug elope with an ODF file and father a race of bastard ships?

Find out today on

As the Stomach Turns!

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE PICKING ON ME just asked a question was the link removed because of gsh whinning?

QuoteDarkFox
BZ2CP Development



Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 188
Location: England

I believe the link was removed because GSH was pretty upset about flying being back in, even in the form of a 'server options' mod.
Don't expect it to stay possible in the final version of 1.3 that comes out.


is this true?????

Quote from: AcneVulgarisWelcome to:

As the Stomach Turns

Today's episode:
"Hoverbug Histronics"

THRILL to read DS question GSH's commitment, manhood, and patriotism!  SEE Frying Pan ask "WHY ARE YOU PICKING ON ME"  HEAR GSH flatly state "Deal with it"

Will the hoverbug elope with an ODF file and father a race of bastard ships?

Find out today on

As the Stomach Turns!

LOL gripping stuff innit :D

Quote from: FRYIN_PANTHIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE PICKING ON ME just asked a question was the link removed because of gsh whinning?

QuoteDarkFox
BZ2CP Development



Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 188
Location: England

I believe the link was removed because GSH was pretty upset about flying being back in, even in the form of a 'server options' mod.
Don't expect it to stay possible in the final version of 1.3 that comes out.


is this true?????

you've posted that question 3 times already repeated posting is likely to be viewed as spamming .

continued posting of the same question could prove counter productive , please be patient and wait for an answer , if one is not forthcoming then it's probably because you've pissed off the person you are asking .

Quote from: deadscionGSH still has not answered the question. Of course he can't stop ODF's from being added.

The question is will GSH code something to prevent the possiblilty of flight regardless of ODF changes?

Seeing as Ken Miller does the physics code *not* GSH, I think it's safe to say GSH will not do any such thing.

limits on the ODF settings in the hovercraft class can be easliy set with a
simple if statement.

The english version here most programmers fully understand

acceljump is a variable

accelstrafe is a variable

accel thrust is a variable

lets call myimposedlimit a variable also

The english version

If acceljump variable setting is greater than myimposedlimit variable setting then acceljump variable equals myimposedlimit.

Program version
If (acceljump > myimposedlimit)
acceljump = myimposedlimit

Now no matter what you set acceljump for, if the imposed limit is 20 then acceljump will never be any greater than 20 if you try to make it higher.

So I will ask GSH again will you allow the new ODF's or will you be placing limits on the ODF settings so users can't change them?

This can also be hacked eventually,I might add.

I haven't tried the Recy variant, but I'm sure someone could tell us...

In a Scout...

Can you mash buttons to hover forever, nose down, and then swoop up into the sky to escape other players without showing one hint of actual dogfighting skill?

Or, can you catch air for a long time, have to use skill to balance and maneuver, and eventually have to come down to 'launch' again?

The bug allowed the first.  Carefully designed ODF's will allow the second, as part of a willfull design of ship handling characteristics.

(that sounded good, didn't it?)

:lol:

-Av-

I want to know why only "BETA Team" (not to be confused with 1.3 beta) members are the loud mouths causing all the trouble. I guess since Major Tom is out of action here, he has to send his croonies. FP, DS Do yourselves a favor and stop listening to that pompas a**.

this is truly a sad day in bz2 history. the fact of the matter is this:

every mod has bugs
every patch has bugs
we were all warned that "some of you will like it (1.3) some of you wont."
we are all entitled to our own opinion
gsh is only human and we all make mistakes\ decisions that are percieved as screw ups.

it is foolish to squabble over BS like this. the best thing about bz2 is its fully tweakable. if you dont like 1.3 dont play it. if you do like but dislike certain aspects then you can just screw around with the odfs. these kind of arguments can split the community.............

god forbid that day.


(IF ANY THING ELSE SETTLE THIS FIGHT IN A HUGE ONLINE BATTLE :P )

QuoteHowever, as the pro-flying-jerks have tried their best to annoy me, they will get an appropriate response.

Ingame.

You forget that PB1 has already been released and can become mainstream unless you can break infinite hover w/o breaking the physics and Fun Factor of the game.

I think this is my second post here, but I have been reading these boards for quite some time.

Some of the most unusual discoveries and inventions have been by accident.  So hovering was accidental, a bug if you will, but its the bug
that makes the game.  Its where the adrenaline rush comes in.  It is
the thrill of the game.

I see posts here that refer to noobies/rookies and how they dont like
hovering.  Well I find that interesting, because I actually do play this game
everyday, and I am constantly asked by new players how to do that.
And 9 times out of 10, once shown, they love it.  They want to know how to run fast, and are elated after learning how.

I read one post about the scout, comparing it to an automobile.  Thats
as absurd as comparing apples to oranges.  An automobile exists in the real world.  Whereas a scout does not.  I rarely see Scion craft on the highway either.   Nor can I recall ever having to dodge plasma or blast in
my Camaro.  The occasional trooper yes, but he is in an automobile also, not a Mauler.

I have seen "well a hover craft could not possibly do that".  My question is
how do you know.  How about bringing yours over to my place and show me its limitations please.  These craft are obviously from a technological era far
more advanced than our own.  Yet you propose to know how they should or
should not operate.  

I see nicks here posting all sorts of things about this game, yet, most of
those nicks I have never seen or played with in game.  And I have to wonder people that rarely or never see play the game, are so concerned about it.  One has to wonder, if you simply want hover removed just to spite everyone that beat you using it cause you could not master the art?

This just reeks of "well this don't suit me so I am gonna do something about it regardless of what everyone that actually plays the game and enjoys it, thinks about it."

We play no hover games every nite, and we also play hover games, with
no problems.  Its a rather simple thing to agree on whether or not a game
will utilize hover.  Only the self-centered and self-serving would take it upon themselves to take that option away.

It would be nice to have some of the enhancements that 1.3 could offer,
but if it has the effect of crippling the game in this manner, its not worth the time it takes to download it.

Now, you can delete this post, ban me from this site, whatever you wish to
do.  Because if you are above a modicrum of constructive critisism, it is
to my benefit not to visit this board anymore.  Besides if it is deleted, I will post it on every other bz board that I can find.  It simply blows the mind that you would delete a post by appel, one of the most respected actual
players in the community.

I also invite any of you that wish to play to join our games.  It would be interesting to see what skills the bz2 experts here actually have.  And I am not refering to TV, or ZA, or the couple of others here that actually play the game.  Win, Lose, or Draw, it will be a Good Game.

{LoC}10*Gauge  aka ~Thunderbolt~ or  ~T-Bolt~

well said

couldnt agree more...

oh and let me add...

lets say a person learnt something.. a profesor... then comes a student or some1 that never learnd and because he is not as skilled ppl in the goverment will decide to take that away... every1 back to being stupied

how does that connects to hovering
we learnt it, we mastered it - we deserve the opnion about it

in the goverment, u dont see some homeless ppl voting about importent stuff cause they dont know hoot about it...
the one that should decide are those with the inteligence, those that it concers to and know everything from every angle (or at least most of them)
not just some punks on the street or in our situation a very very unactive player that doesnt even know how to hover (not saying all of you doesnt know how to hover but i think u get my point)

Quotesome homeless ppl voting about importent stuff cause they dont know hoot about it...

Remind me why the hell I put up with this community? I've been attacked for years over this damn game. Why the hell should I do anything more for it when every release will just get another set of attacks?

I mean, look at it from my point: what's the downside to giving the community back what it gave me: nothing but the finger?

-- GSH

u were attacked unfairly althouh puttin alot of effort in it...

but as i was told
u picked random ppl for testin? what do you expect - that the rest of the community will just fall down and love it?

1.3 is good.. no doubt... but it still needs some changing to the style that the hardcore players need... and basicly every1 who plays... i dont think i saw 60% of the players from the beta testing team... or 80% from this forums plays...

im sorry to say but you should've thought about it and organize it better
and if u just look around ull see we made some mods while u were working on 1.3 that we made to fill our needs
its great that programs skilled like you and ken were working on it....

but you should consider what the ppl want.. and not what you want.. cause its for us - not for you... make us love it not hate it

im not trying to get you pissed... u saying we should look at it from your point of view.. maybe some of us havn't.. and some "forget" but also u should look at it from our side

You tend to come off with 'i dont give a hoot what you think' attitude, and if ppl dont like that, I dont blame them. Especially when you make comments like that one I quoted before, it almost sounds as if you're trying to change parts of the game just to spite people.

The community didnt give you the finger, a select few people did, like the 'MT's BETA Team'. If you look past the flames and whines of those people, you can see that people are actually debating 1.3 very well; look at all of the progress that has been made so far, this is thanks to you! When people are still playing this in 5 years, it will be thanks to you and Ken as well.

There are balance and bug issues to be fixed and things to be addressed, people are worred about that, but think about the things you did right (http://www.bzuniverse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1578&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0).

If you were a programmer ad Id, released a new patch where the Quake *character* gained 200 pounds, gave it a maximum jump of 1/2 a meter, let him take hitpoints after jumping down 1 meter, and disable the rocket launcher jumping. You think that will please the Quake player community? Safe to say, I don't think so.

That's exactly, bottomline, what's going on here.
You acknowledge this is a community, you're part of this community, and that's why you're taking a lot of heat from it. I probably came on these forums with a lot of noise, but I've tried to look at these things from your perspective too so I'm not too enthuiastic anymore to annoy anyone about this.

We got the patch, played it, and the scouts were just totally different than in 1.2. At least they could have been *exactly* like the 1.2 ones, without the constant hover bug. I'm sure many wouldn't have bothered to comment on that. Compromises, everyone can accept them, that's how communities work.

Just trying to put things in perspective. I know you've done many great things in this patch, don't get me wrong. However, I'm sure if you weren't so determined to ignore our requests or comments regarding the H-bug then none of this would be an issue to day.
You don't want hover back in, I can accept that, but at least instead of hover we would have gotten the same ships as in 1.2...without being able to stay up there endlessy.

Some people say the most pleasent thing in life is to make other people happy, you will be rewarded tenfolds.

Quotebut you should consider what the ppl want.. and not what you want.. cause its for us - not for you... make us love it not hate it

Hah, the ironic thing is that its *his* game. He can do whatever he wants with it.

You oviously don't understand all the effort GSH put into this.


GSH:

The current ODF hover bug is easily fixed. I believe what Ken did is coded a constant that lowered the thursters at certain altitudes. Oviously, this constant was enough for the 1.2 scouts but it did not account for the high-velocities of the new 1.3 scouts. If this value were to be variable, according to the speed of the ship, the thruster-downer thing would work for all versions of the scout. That in effect would take away hovering from the game for good.

I can also prove it. In the normal 1.3 scouts, you can make yourself go down slower by "trying" to hover. You won't go up but you won't drop like a rock. The value was created with the normal 1.3 scouts in mind.

GSH could take a quick glance at the physics code (at what Ken changed) and see what to do. Couldn't take more than an hour to find the physics-fix.

GSH has options I bet. If he wanted to take away hover, I'll respect that since I believe the game is better off without the hover, anyways.

Hah, the ironic thing is that its *his* game. He can do whatever he wants with it.


not realy, without us, the whole community, this game is dead - what kind of game will this be?
the game by rights maybe his, but its MADE FOR US

i do respect your opnion on hovering because i know you can hover well
and i know your respeceted hardcore player, i do not respect all those that "whine" on it because they cant do it and dont play the game and decide for us, the hardcore players - those that spend countless hours and hours a day to play, i do not belive they have enough intalgience about hover to talk about it

Quoteu picked random ppl for testin?

I don't know where you're getting this from. Seriously if it comes from me then you're retarded. We selected all the beta testers and discussed them before they got in.

I can't speak for you, Nathan, but if it were me, I wouldn't put up with the abuse you get from these so-called intelligent people and would just say, "Screw it. Goodbye.".  It's not worth it.  They're not worth it.  You are.

Well at least the boards active eh, it was kinda boring in here for a couple of years :s

I'm beginning to think that posts relating to the great hover debate should be treated as spam.  We all know all the arguments, and the decision has been irrevocably made.  There's just no point in carrying on about it anymore.  

It's done.  Over.  Finito.  No reasoned argument or tearful tirade will change it.

Focus on the good stuff now.  We've been given many wonderful gifts.

Attacking GSH about something you dislike such as the Hover Bug Being removed won't help on getting things changed. Every good program don't like leaving bugs reguardless if the customer likes it or not.  Even though the Hover Bug was reintroduced with the Experimental Recycler Variant People Still continued to attack GSH. Being Constructive & Helping out by working on a set of odf files that balance things out so the units would be more like the 1.2 units would of been the best option. Even if the Set of odf files your working on doesn't get accepted into the 1.3 patch doesn't mean that people won't want to use them. Attacking GSH & Flaming don't solve a darn thing. GSH is making the 1.3 patch in his own spare time which means he doesn't even have to finish the patch. If you don't like how the units handle fine then make a small mod that changes that. He's got better things to do then get kicked every day. Flaming & attacking GSH is only Destructive behavior & won't help get things changed.  Being Constructive by doing the balance changes yourself would be the best option even if it isn't accepted into the patch (I'm not saying it won't) but people can still download the files off a website & install them just like any other mod.

The Experimental Recycler Variant was meant help give people ideas that you can make your own Recycler Variant & create modified odfs to however you like. I Removed the file link to the Experiment because i knew others would continue to finish the tweaking the experimental Recycler without me since i don't really have the time to complete the small project. Notice that their is new version of the Experimental Recycler Variant now being worked on by others in the "Vet Recycler Option" Thread which was my entire point of posting the first version of the Experimental Recycler Variant.

To GHS,

As of today (03-03-04) CSports.net has had 5782 unique players in the last 31 days playing Battlezone 2. Don't let the dozen or so who will never be happy with 1.3 (mostly because they weren't a part of it) think they speak for the majority. That few have attacked you, the beta team, this forums moderators and administrators, and so many that have given their time and skills to better this game for reasons only they, themselves understand. I can only speak for myself, but I thank you and everyone who has made this game something I can't wait to play after a long day at work. You owed us nothing but have kept giving your time and talents to the game. If that dozen or so can't see that, then they are truely blind.

im being told that my post is offensive? in what way? that i said we are more intelgent about hovering? maybe not all of us vets but some of us are if a better player then me, a more exprienced one in any other game
or even in real life - teacher or some other edjucated charcter i know they have more knowledge then me and i will accept it...

the beta team and the ppl of this forum support no hover as far as i see...
so just do what u do best.. tell us u dont care.. thats always seemed to work for you so far aint it?

ya - just keep saying it and we'll see where it all leads...

Um...he really DON'T care...he's not just saying it.

Where we are now is where it leads.  It's time to move on.

"Remind me why the hell I put up with this community? I've been attacked for years over this damn game. Why the hell should I do anything more for it when every release will just get another set of attacks?

I mean, look at it from my point: what's the downside to giving the community back what it gave me: nothing but the finger? "

Nathan...You brought this upon yourself. You were told a infinate number of times this would be the result. yet you persisted in the "

""Though Shalt No Hover"! Mantra to the point it blinded reason.

The attacks will turn to praise and cooperation if you just stop trying to compell a mode of play that the vast majority of players do not like.

You can't legislate morality..and you can't code "what people like" You had, and still do have, Every opportunity to become BZ 2's patron saint. You efforts are appreciated, but yet you give us a poision pill that we must consume to eat at this new banquet of features.


It should seem clear to you that  we (the community) will handle some things that you may not care to deal with(such as creating a vehicle physics package that the vast majority will enjoy)...Then much of your efforts will be rewarded...and perhaps you will recieve more of the commendations that you rightfully feel should be afforded you.

But if you chose to try and force the poision of radically different physics upon us, then all  your work will be lost.

I still find the whole hover issue a bit odd , ok it's an element that many players enjoy , but BZ1 didn't have that bug and many of us loved that game , we didn't even know about the H bug for the first 6 months or more of BZ2 but it didn't stop us from loving the game back then  , we'd have been just as happy if it had never been discovered . If a BZ3 was made without the H bug would you refuse to play it because of that ?

In many ways 1.3 does make BZ2 into an all new game , but what's so wrong with that ? It can still be a great game no matter what changes have been made because it's almost unique ( with the exception of BZ1 ) and there's still nothing to rival it . BZ_FE you really should know that a bit of change doesn't hurt more than anyone here , look at how much time you invested in rounding up the lost sheep from 1.0/1.1 land .

Either way it's not worth getting all worked up over , it's not worth flaming people over , because at the end of the day you aren't having anything taken away from you , and if you find 1.3 unacceptable you still have 1.2 which you've all been quite happy playing for the last 3.5 years . You are simply being offered a choice , no-one is forcing anything on anybody here .

BZFE, who is trying to force whom here?  All I am hearing is the intoxicated ravings of few individuals trying desperately to prevent having their poisoned pill, to which they have become addicted, taken away from them.

What amazes me is that these vets think that they're the only players of the game. Most bz2 players are so-called "newbs." They don't want hover. Majority wins. Nathan could very well take away hover in 1.3 with a few changes to the current code. If he doesn't, we'll have a semi-hover scout that is a blend between 1.3 no-hover scouts and 1.2 hover scouts.

"Majority wins"

Speedy....look again...Look at your gamespy list and look how many games are 1.3 and how many are 1.2.

When a LONG awaited and much anticiapated patch is released, you'd expect that 75% or more of the games posted would be running the "new patched version"..


Instead..I see the vast majority of games being played ARE 1.2 and the few 1.3 games I see are some of us trying to work around the physics issues and "just see if the damn things works"(in my case)

This is a very small world HERE at BZCP Speedy..you should know..you've been around to the clan sites..... 1.3  isn't  exactly a overnite HIT now is it?

It needs work..and everyone whos objective knows it. I'm more than happsy to see it through with others and play it and give feedback....It did me little or no godd when I was in the "closed beta"...But that won't stop me here nor should it stop others.

And in the end, I can live with compromises on scouts...its just a part of the game, but for many it is the most important part.

I think pharoh is right, not to contradict anyone elses opinion, mind you. :D

I sympathize with the gamers and the vets on their opinions of the game, but I also believe that "those in power" had a legitimate reason for doing what they did. :D

Some insight needs to be taken to safely conclude that everything said and did had a reason for showing up. :D In the end, we'd all be laughing at ourselves for letting some things get to us. :lol:

If all doesn't turn out that way, I only hope that this dispute will not cause the community to split. :(

QuoteHah, the ironic thing is that its *his* game. He can do whatever he wants with it.

That is the most stupid comment i seen in my life. This is our game, the game of whoever play it and bought it. Without us there wouldnt be any bz2 at all.

I dont think the devs work on this patch for themself and if they do that mistake then they can play it alone. I mean what would be the point of making a patch wich will splitt the community in 2? I understand that just a beta patch and been released to see what players think of it.

I think at this point it is time to find out what will rally all players togheter and make 1.3 the patch bz2 players play! Otherways 1.3 will only be the next FE. Everynight 3 1.2 games, 1 fe and 1 1.3 at same time.

I seen someone posting about 5k players in 1 week, thats some funny hootznick! Open your bz2 game right now look how many 1.2/1.3 strat/dm games are on atm. I bet you cant count more then 30 players playing. That is our comunity players meeting togheter everydays. Wich make around 300 players if i believe the 10% rule. ( maybe you forgot most bz2 players have 2 - 3 nicknames and create new ones every weeks/months )

I load up 1.3 every now and then to just see how many people are playing it. All I see are maybe 2 MPI games with maybe 2 people in each with names I've never seen b4 (I have played a hell of a lot of 1.2 over the years) and maybe 1 with the experimental recycler option trying to change the physics back, the rest of the games which are thieving are 1.2 stock and ZST maybe a couple of FE games. Hmm, as Phaser also said I would have thought that with this long anticipated patch we all would be playing it. I for one even with the 'experimental mod' will not play 1.3 ever because the physics are still not right in my opinion.

Imagine now that in the shell there was an option for 1.2 physics and the beta 1.3 physics (as I suggested in my first post on these boards but was considered a trouble maker and was ignored), I bet that 90% of our small community would be playing 1.3 and there would be a lot of positive feed back much like what you were hoping.

Please make an option in the shell that switches the physics back and forth and I for one would be so happy or at the very least please let us know how to make a patch for us players that want 1.2 physics (experimental rec is not sufficient).

P.S. this is my last post here unless something positive starts to happen about this issue, I can't be bothered with short sightedness and lack of compromise.

The physics are KenCode© and are so integrated into the engine there is about as much chance as being able to switch between multiple physics types as there are some of the people here becoming intellegent.  To be able to switch between physics types would have required BZ2 to have been built very differently from how it is, it would be about easier to rewrite most of it then attempt to add in that capability.

Quote from: CaptPicardP.S. this is my last post here unless something positive starts to happen about this issue, I can't be bothered with short sightedness and lack of compromise.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

All this griping about physics is like complaining that the color of your new Rolls Royce sucks.  It's such a gem under the hood yet everyone concentrates on things that the Community COULD HAVE changed to suit tastes.  The engine is SO much better given 1.3 that each Clan could have it's own tailor made Recy to play with.   All it would have taken is a simple ODF pack to put things back to 1.2 performance (damn close, anyway) for "Vet Play".  

Instead we have whiners constantly pounding away about hovering.  We have those who try it once and toss it away because it's different.  We have everyone refusing to test it and help nail down the FEW remaining bugs.

If medicine had that kind of community we'd still be shaking rattles when we got sick.  The Space Program wouldn't even have made it to monkeys yet.  We'd all be in Europe still if Colombus had this crew.

Short sighted, selfish, arrogant fools who don't know what's important....

I'm tired...

-Av-

I'm with avatar I'm sick and tired of the whole damn lot of you , fair enough you wanna see this community die , don't let me stop you .

And don't fool yourself into believing that what you are doing isn't killing this community because it is , and it's as plain as the nose on your face . Don't come here and complain about 1.3 if you never had any intention of giving it a chance ( because it's quite obvious you never had any such intention) , to give something a chance you need to try it more than a couple of times . All you seem to want to do is mindlessly attack those that were trying to do their best for this game , and don't give me that bull crap about vets keeping this game alive , you've done more to stifle it than you can possibly ever imagine , with you blinkered single track view of what this game should be . All you vets ever do is complain and whine cos about things you don't like and fling insults at people , it's pathetic you act like spoiled brats .

By the way do you understand what the word BETA means , or is that just a little too many letters to get your heads around ?

Anyway I've had enough of it I'm sick to death of the damn lot of you , you've dragged this community down into the dirt and destroyed any chance of getting a decent update for this game , you make me sick .

Quote from: Avatar

Quote from: CaptPicardP.S. this is my last post here unless something positive starts to happen about this issue, I can't be bothered with short sightedness and lack of compromise.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

All this griping about physics is like complaining that the color of your new Rolls Royce sucks.  It's such a gem under the hood yet everyone concentrates on things that the Community COULD HAVE changed to suit tastes.  The engine is SO much better given 1.3 that each Clan could have it's own tailor made Recy to play with.   All it would have taken is a simple ODF pack to put things back to 1.2 performance (damn close, anyway) for "Vet Play".  

Instead we have whiners constantly pounding away about hovering.  We have those who try it once and toss it away because it's different.  We have everyone refusing to test it and help nail down the FEW remaining bugs.

If medicine had that kind of community we'd still be shaking rattles when we got sick.  The Space Program wouldn't even have made it to monkeys yet.  We'd all be in Europe still if Colombus had this crew.

Short sighted, selfish, arrogant fools who don't know what's important....

I'm tired...

-Av-

knock it off Avatar!! These guys took away not only hover, but some of the agility, none of the current MODs will work on it or shell enhancements , the editor is a seperate executable and very inconvenient to use if you have minor tweeking to do on your map, very little of 1.3 is 1.2 compatible.

When new Mods are released which is 3 to 6 months after the final version, they will only work on 1.3 and in an environment which the public has not been allowed any opinion or choice. In fact the experimental recycle variant means nothing if they are too determined to stamp on hover.

So it's not surprising the public is pissed at these guys for closing them out.

Now you expect public exceptance for something they were not allowed to discuss. Things don't work that way.

1.3 will not be accepted by the public until the public is allowed to convene and properly discuss what is acceptable.

This is the bottom line regardless of what I think or you think.

IMO I really like 1.3 and congrats to Ken and Nathan for their hard work. They've added so much more functionality to the game, giving us more things to toy with in bz2. Fixed a heap of bugs - esp that win2k bug, it really got on my nerves. Now all this flaming and whatever uncivil behaviour will eventually spilt the community if not already. From the looks of things, inf flying will never return through the physics code. I don't see the need for such over reactions for the changes to the handling of scouts. Maybe you need to get familiar with the many other ships available to you or just give the 1.3 scout a go and practice in it. I agree that the 1.3 scouts do feel somewhat sluggish though, but I don't care all that much I will get used to it eventually.

The recycler option seems like a good idea at trying to get the 1.2 handling back in the 1.3 ships if you can't get used to playing well in the stock 1.3 scouts - but ODFs do have their limits.

Oh here we go again , that parasite cry baby deadscion spreading more of his poisonous filth , just we all need right now .

Well screw that stay here and bitch aslong as you want , I'm leaving the carcass of this community to rot , have fun vultures maybe you'll find a few scraps of flesh to pick off the bones but I doubt it , this place is finnished .

The bottom line is the public was not allowed a voice in this and now the public will not accept it until they are allowed a voice in this.

Debating the issues of merit, virtue, accomplishments and reasoning are a waste of time.

Nobody is wrong here, just not agreeing the way they should.

Quote from: LizardOh here we go again , that parasite cry baby deadscion spreading more of his poisonous filth , just we all need right now .

Well screw that stay here and bitch aslong as you want , I'm leaving the carcass of this community to rot , have fun vultures maybe you'll find a few scraps of flesh to pick off the bones but I doubt it , this place is finnished .

Now this is real intelligent.

Again DS, not important.

I feel like a Borg.  Discussion is irrelevant.  Agility, hovering, etc. irrelevent.  Input was irrelevant.  Them being pissed is irrelevant.

Agility? Hovering?  It's all fluff.  Paint.  Leather trim and chrome.

The important thing is the chassis.  The engine.  1.3 is infinitely superior in that regard.  The rest could have been/can be 'fixed' to match whatever you want.  Well, maybe, if Nathan isn't thoroughly pissed and tossing the whole thing.

I have whole armies wandering around doing VERY fun things.  The Olympians have long range sniper rifles, 10-use jetpacks, commandable squads of infantry. Their Scouts can do nose stands all day long when not going into orbit. They're VERY fun to fly.  Toss in pilotable Bombers, commandable Infantry Squads, and a host of other things that only work in 1.3 and you can see why I understand how irrelevant stock unit physics is...

Stiff?  Less agile?  We could have fixed that easily...  *sigh*

You as a modder should know that.  These guys that are whining should listen and understand that.

They can be childish and toss it away.  It's not like there's a LOT of people playing BZ2 anyway.  I don't know why Nathan and Ken even bothered.

So tired.  Shouldn't post when tired.  Bedtime.

I think I'm taking a vacation from here for a bit.  Maybe the children will leave while I'm gone...

-Av-

Lets look at this from Deadscion's point of view:

Deadscion assumes that in order for nathan to quell flying odf params have to be restricted. Thus, forcing units to be sluggish.

Unfortunetly, Deadscion doesn't realize that through subtle tweaking of the way the options work the sluggishness can be removed while removing the ability to hover as well. Thus, you could have a ship that is ten times faster then a scout that still can't do an infinite hover.

But Deadscion was never much of a programmer, apparently. Or a modder. Otherwise he would have realized that the reverse thruster had the same thing done to it. Make it so you quadruple the reverse thruster strength and you still can't fly with it like you could in 1.2. Yet it is still four times stronger.

I'm so tired I just thought of something that may have been missed...

Everyone complaining of ship slugishness DID go in and make sure their control sensitivity is set the same?  As before?  As 1.2?  Especially if they're running from a new install...

I have six installs of BZ2 and had to reset it each time.

'Cause if you're still set like this it's no wonder they seem sluggish...

(http://home.comcast.net/~bz-avatar/controls.jpg)

-Av-

Heh, I have some of my percentages set around 300% :P

I got all set at 1000% and pitch at 220%...only way to play :)

Public opinion irrelevent Avatar? euuww Glad I didn't say that,,,,,


Wz can say anthing he wants I done care.

Quote from: deadscionWz can say anthing he wants I done care.

Another display of DeadScion's Stupidity.  He says I'm closed minded, yet he turns around and doesn't listen to others.  That's the way to show them DS!

Whoa Sonic good one!!!  hahahaha

Quote from: AvatarI'm so tired I just thought of something that may have been missed...

Everyone complaining of ship slugishness DID go in and make sure their control sensitivity is set the same?  As before?  As 1.2?  Especially if they're running from a new install...

I have six installs of BZ2 and had to reset it each time.

'Cause if you're still set like this it's no wonder they seem sluggish...

(http://home.comcast.net/~bz-avatar/controls.jpg)

-Av-

I tried the thrust and strafe setting on 1000% and this made no difference.
I am on a mouse and keyboard and the keyboard is not analog, but I tried the settings any way in hopes it would work.
Analog settings are for analog joysticks by my last understanding unless something else is going on in BZ2.
Open mind stuff right Sonic?

if those settings would've make you faster thats also "cheat" or bug or w/e u wanna call it...
it doesnt change your speed and agilty.. maybe only the turning - mouse sensetivy - not speed

and im with deadscion and phaser all the way

DS ya noobie... why would you care what version you use.. ud have no skill in either. not only.. many locs Have it and on our ventrilo server bird is playing with bean.. prolly some other vet the next day and so on.. you sound like, a whiny bitch.

people still play 1.0 and 1.1

how do i know this?

few weeks ago i put xp back on and.. i started bz after reinstalling and the recycler mesh was gone :o OHnoes! im in 1.0 land.. wtf there was enuf games up to make me think it was 1.2....

i converted 5 people on the spot :D

any how.. point being theres gona be a few straglers that come burning up the rear, you can choose to be one of these people.

Blah blah fukken blah. Is anybody actually playing the game at all or are we all just hanging round here badmouthing each other? FFS it's a game get over it children.

Moderators, suggest closing this forum and moving any constructive discussion posts to the modding and maps page.

If GSH does decide to finish it he knows exactly what everybody thinks about it, generally at great length.

If he doesn't, well it's not really a BETA anymore is it. Please yourselves of course but this crap needs to end.

Why dont we just add a '1.3 complaint board' ;)

What FB you haven't read enough illiterate abusive posts for one week?

Quote from: SlaorWhat FB you haven't read enough illiterate abusive posts for one week?

:shock: You mean he can read?

ya
1.0/1 is a whole difrent world.. i dont think they know 1.2 exsists... :s

just put the power users line in you bz 1.2 and u can see 1.0 games (or 1.1...)

Quote from: SlaorModerators, suggest closing this forum and moving any constructive discussion posts to the modding and maps page.

If GSH does decide to finish it he knows exactly what everybody thinks about it, generally at great length.

If he doesn't, well it's not really a BETA anymore is it. Please yourselves of course but this crap needs to end.

I came THIS close to doing so, but then thought.

There has to be a "Recycle Bin" here somewhere for the junk to flow to....

This thread can be it.  It'll attract crap like a lightning rod and keep it contained.

-Av-

Sorry, I really tried to keep pouring oil on the flames but I got to cut in here, May be I am a bit of dirt attracted to this thread BUT:

NOT KEN AND NATHAN'S GAME? :evil:  IT'S THE PUBLIC 'S GAME? :-o  what a load of F***ING BULLIhoot!!!!!!!! sorry boys and girls  but IT IS THEIR  GAME AND NOT YOUR DAMN GAME ,Did you go to college, learn all their was about game programming?  some of you can't even spell let alone do something like that,  DID  YOU SOMEHOW TELEKONETICALLY (PSYCHICALLY) INJECT ALL THE IDEA'S VEHICLE PHYSHIC'S AND STORY AND CONCEPT OF THE GAME IN GSH'S AND KEN'S HEADS ? NO  :evil:

Granted you have become part of a community, I'll give you that but you bought their idea, you didn't make the game for them, they put their game into the marketplace like every other developer and then you liked their idea's and you bought into them, es you bought into their idea's, like you buy other product, YOU DIDN'T MAKE THE DAMN GAME AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE IDEA ORIGINALLY, all this "the public demands this" BOLLOCKS , "you made the game for us, not you ," hoot

How would you like it if someone came along and spewed that type of crap over a game you made or say, if you make music, aa song you recorded? Why I know how some of the very same people spewing that crap would react, sorry BUT THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE YOU BOUGHT THE GAME BECAUSE YOU LIKED THE IDEA'S THE GAME HAD, JUST LIKE MILLONS OF OTHER PRODUCTS OUT THERE.

DO you own the car company because you bought the car? NO Do you own the soap company because you bought thier soap? NO  so why should it be any different when it comes to games or anything else in the entertainment industry? what a load of  false community  crap !!!!! And as for the public demands hovering or any such other rubbish, do you really see a string of people wanting to buy BZ2? NO

I think Ken and Nathan are to good for some of the likes of you , personally I would have moved on if getting half the insults they have got especially THAT TYPE OF INSULT THAT IT'S NOT YOUR GAME, IT'S OUR GAME, you would be lucky if you even got a  1.2 patch out, let alone a 1.3

Thats a weird way of thinking you got there man.
To use your own example if i bought a car, i own that car same for the soap. Now if the mass customer need or request something for the next car generation, it will most likely be include to increase its distribution. So peeps who bought/rent the same model last year will be looking for the new model cause it contain what they were missing.

Now for who is that game been made? Of course for pandemic to make money, no doubt about that. But else then pandemic who profit of the game? Why does the devs make a new patch? for me its clear to perfect the idea of the game and mostly for the people that play it. To think that someone is working on this patch for himself is kind of selfish dont you think?

If i have a reception and i prepare dinner, i want it at my taste of course, but whats the point if my guests dont like it?

Now you mixing diferent post togheter like if they come from the same poster in occurence me. I didnt insult anybody here, i didnt flame anyone either. I stated my opinion on some fact and thats all. But you telling me the game i bought isnt mine? So basicly you think the people that play that game dont have their say on the next patch. So they released a beta just to fool around and give the impression we can help but at the end nothing will change?

Is that what you mean cause if that is, i would like to know what nathan and ken think about it.

DVE almost all your posts does not make sense...

i totaly agree with phaser here...

That is not what I am saying Phaser, I said , this is a community and if the developers wish for the community to stay together or carry on buying their product's they have to listen to some of the communites concern's BUT the community should realise, it is not THEIR Product, They didn't produce it, it is out , it have been released it is under Pandemic's copyright and , it isn't exactly a best seller.

The community didn't have the idea of getting in and out of vehicles, they didn't have the idea of bases, or making a 1st person shooter vehicle R.T.S so to come out so to  start claiming that is the communites and not the  developers game to me that is complete rude and arrogant, especially since they really don't have to provide a patch or give a damn about any community as a result of this game, PLENTY OF games, games that where the thing to get when they where released have suffered this fate.

Also you bought a copy of the game, you DIDN'T BUY THE GAME the code and the product is still Pandemic's and of course Ken's and Nathan's, I mean, just because you bought a bar of soap, dosn't mean you bought the copyright to the soap and how the soap is made, the patent, the ingrediant's e.t.c so how can the actual soap be your's you bought a copy of the orginal soap, that is your's so those who made the soap must listen to your opinions to a point because you are a customer of them because you bought a copy of the orginal soap design or a copy of the orginal car design, but the idea of the car isn't your's, the design and the orginal finished prototype isn't your's unless you go and either buy the company or buy the orginal prototype and even then, even if you buy the orginal prototype and the company, unless the inventor or inventors sold the copyright and invention rights to the company , the idea, still isn't yours.

If the developer needs input on their idea's going back to games, then, legally legally they can put a beta out and if they wish, not put it out for reasons known to themselves whether the community likes it or not, of course, doing that would be commercial suicide because the chances are if they release a game similiar, the  community they orginally wanted to attract will remember what they did, so if they want to sell similiar games, they wouldn't do that but legally they can because it is their intellectual property, not the communities, yes they could put out a beta, get people to fool around with it , give the impression that the community can help and in the end withdraw it and leave you with 1.2 but that would be commercial suicide for them because the community would say something about it to other gamer's.

It would possibly get back to Gaming magazines and that wouldn't be a good thing for them , especially as they are in the process of developing  Star Wars Battlefront so they are not going to do that but let me tell you this, there is currently a petition to make Sierra to make Starsiege 2 and Sierra haven't taken a blind bit of notice, yes those people bought Starsiege, Earthsiege 2, Earthsiege Tribes and Tribes 2, keeping your customers happy only goes so far and some of the statemants on here could be really put to the test if Ken and Nathan decide to put them to the test.

After all, the BZ2 community is a very small comunity, NEVER FORGET THAT. Look I don't agree with everything they do, personally I think that given the right marketing, especially now where 1st Person Shooters seem to be taking BZ' s lead with vehicles or getting into and out of vehicle's, case in point, Unreal Tournament 4, Breed .Halo , Chrome , X-Tension  just to name a few I think that gamers will want to find out and purchase the orginal games this idea came from and I think that lot's of players will come on here soon wanting copies because they heard of BZ2 and wish to play and that there should be a BZ3,  GSH dosen't argee, he believes that the beancouters won't allow it because redeveloping the  BZ2 engine will not justify the sales return because they didn't get the sales last time, we already have had a fairly flamy row about this subject and I think we will both have to agree to disagree on that score.

But even I have the sense to realise that this game is HIS GAME not MY game and all I did was buy a copy of HIS GAME or should I say Pandemic's game and that you will find very very few programmers supporting their games long after their sell by date, look at the copyright details on Batltlezone or any other game, or on records or CD's , it is the artist's product, not yours, you bought a copy of their product.

So I am afraid the comment that it's his game he can do what he likes with it is very very true

WELL THE FACT YOU COME OUT WITH SUCH A STUPID COMMENT THAT KEN AND NATHAN MADE THE GAME FOR YOU AND NOT THEM I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT EITHER PHOENIX.

Let me tell you something Phoenix, on this you don't know what the f**k you are talking about OK I am wrong? why don't you ask all the rappers who used other bands backing tracks without the bands permission what happened to them or better still ask Ken and Nathan, or any laywer or any musician what copyright means, and you will see that I am right

Wording people to death will not change any facts here.

Not much point in writing a program for the public without public acceptance.

Unless somebody else besides the public is going to use it, then who ever it was really made for needs to accept it.

If it was made for just GSH and a few friends then why go to this much trouble? and create a "public" Beta board just to work out the details?

You guys know better and arguing like this just for the sake of arguement is NOT helping.

Further debating like this belongs in the Off Topic board which is where most of this Topic already belongs.

Move this thing, please.

Sorry dead scion BUT YOU ARE WRONG TOO, the fact of the matter is they can do WHATEVER they like with BZ2 it is their intellectual property and you can scream, shout all day long about the public demand and any other such crap, if GSH wish to write a program for just a few friends and him HE CAN and if He wishes to create a public  beta board and test the patch out on others then with draw it HE CAN even if it is pointless to do so, so saying that it's is the communities, it is the communites only if the developers say it is

END OF STORY AND DISCUSSION ON THAT, DON'T BELIEVE ME AS ANY LAWYER.

Like I said before this topic has become totally unrelated to the real issues being dealt with here.

Will somebody please move this topic to the off topic board?

DVE is right.  Especially since we aren't paying for 1.3.

If public approval is not necessary and DVE is right then this "public" beta is not public at all.

This "public" beta board is a waste of time and should not have been started in the first place to ask for help in finishing it from the "public".

Damn straight NukeDaddy

Listen , dead scion, yes, legally as I said they can do it but they won't do it because GSH and Nathan care about the BZ2 community and the game and they do want sime input from the community, they don't just wish to publish the patch like that, they wish for constructive critisim but not out and out flames and if they keep getting them then they are within their legal rights to pull 1.3 and 1.2 if they so wish.

Most game developers wish for input from their perpective customers you will find most companies do some form of testing so that they can please their customer's and put out products that can sell.

This, though is a labour of love on behalf of the developers because BZ2 isn't selling, but the developers don't wish to simply leave the community to fend for itself like some other developers and they do wish for input, I know I am trying to develop a game myself BUT at the end of the day IT IS THEIR PRODUCT and they can withdraw it at ANY TIME.

So, you really should piss GSH and Nathan off more than is neccsary , otherwise they might just withdraw 1.3  altoghether

"Public" in this case doesn't mean "municiple."  It means as opposed to the "private" 1.3 beta board that has been there all along.  It means as opposed to the "private" beta testing that has been going on all this time.  The game is not public property.

DVE ur not making sense...


ill work with your e.g.. its maybe their soup but are they mading it for? are they using it daily? is it just for them? or is it to make money and for the public
if the public dont like the soup the public wont buy it... now what they want here its like a market research! ever heard one of those?
open beta public is market reasarch for a game
they want out opnions, we are allowed to complain if they take something away from us
although its theirs
we have the right as a human being! in almost *every* country

now tell me just this... 2 liens can be enough

who is the game made for?
why are they doing it public beta?

I'm still at a loss as to what it is you think you are missing out on in 1.3 BETA. Its designed to be configurable to WHAT YOU WANT FFS.

There are 3 main bitches as far as I can see. Stock hovers feel "sluggish" to some, MP lag symptoms have changed and infinite flying bug is fixed.

The first one just blows me away. Are you seriously telling me that all you "real" players don't know that physics can be tweaked through ODF??

Want less sluggish scouts? Make a bloody recycler that builds them. Even the most hopeless noob should be at least able to learn to tweak a friggin scout ODF. The modding community has provided countless reources to help you. And if you are too clueless to do that (but still consider yourself a "real" player of course) then download the ODFs that the 1.3 beta guys have kindly developed to try and pacify your pathetic mewling.

Want sentries that are useful? Want AI Defenses that are stupid? Ditto.

Want lag free games? Play on a LAN. BZ2 aint exactly UT2004 - there's a lot more going on, a lot more CPU load and a lot less cheating. Deal with it or get faster broadband. It is better for a lot of people, MUCH more stable and highly configurable - not just cos u can play multiple games from the shell. If this is the biggy for you then tweak the settings the best you can then adapt. Or of course, wait till the NEXT BETA or keep your 1.2

Want hovering? Play 1.2 because in 1.3 the bug is GONE. If this is the biggy for you and you can't live without it then fine. Play 1.2. It's not being discontinued, YOU HAVEN'T LOST ANYTHING. You might also want to examine your motivations for playing BZ2 if infinite ass up scout hovering is the main buzz you get from it.

The whole point of the way 1.3 is designed is to GIVE YOU THE CHOICE of how you want to play. It's intended to please the widest audience possible among the very different sections of BZ2 players that exist in this so-called community by letting them tweak the game to a playstyle that suits them.

The knee jerk fuk you mentality of some people in reaction to this patch openly displays their ignorance, stupidity and selfishness, an impression that only deepens as time goes by. Yet they still expect the developers to hang on every syllable they spout, as evidenced by eg: Deadscions demented ranting in this thread. It'd almost be laughable if it wasn't so damaging. Get a grip fool and pull your head in. You do nobody any favours especially yourself.

if they just publish it when they done without any input like what u saying every1 (which is totaly wrong cause every company that wants to upgrade a CURRENT *something* ask the public whats they want in it.... therefor making it their choice... whats good for them... whats good for the public good for the company for 1 and almsot only reason.. to make money...
if the public dont like it no1 will buy it and they wont make money

now, what will be the point of publishing a patch that no1 or just very very few ppl will like?
no1 will play it and what they were trying to accomplish will fail...

Listen Phoenix, HOW OLD ARE YOU HUH?  :evil: :-o , It is THEIR GAME AND NOT YOUR GAME, ALL THIS CRAP ABOUT RIGHTS WHAT THE F***K HAS RIGHTS GOT TO DO WITH IT? IT'S THEIR IDEA!!!!!WHAT!!! YOU WANT THEM TO MAKE A GAME FOR YOU AND YOU OWN THE RIGHTS TO IT TO? :lol: YOU DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THE IDEA'S THAT WENT INTO THE GAME, YOU DIDN'T PROGRAMME IT, YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING BUT PLAY IT AND YOU WANT THEM TO DEVELOP IT AND TAKE YOUR BADMOUTHING OF IT AS WELL????????? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU? DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT ANYONE MAKING ANYTHING WOULD HAVE IT WHERE ANYONE COULD SAY , SAY A CAR COMPANY, THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU BOUGHT THE CAR MODEL YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY WHAT HAPPENS TO THE DESIGN, THE PROTOTYPE, THE VOLUME SALES ANY ANYTHING ELSE? NO ONE WOULD MAKE A DAMN THING, THE WEST WOULD GO BACK INTO THE STONE AGE OVER NIGHT, GET OVER THIS RIGHTS CRAP AND KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT , THIS THE REAL WORLD HERE OF MAKING MONEY.

OH YEAH AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS
1) THEY MADE THE GAME TO MAKE MONEY ALSO BECAUSE THEY LIKE TO MAKE GAMES
2) THEY ARE DOING IT IN PUBLIC BETA BECAUSE THEY FEEL THE GAME WASN'T FINISHED RIGHT, THEY WANT TO BE AS GOOD AS IT CAN BE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO BOUGHT THEIR PRODUCT

GOT THAT????!!!!

PS: I agree that a company must take into consideration what most people want when producing a product. In 1.3 they have attempted to do just that.

Just cos u don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't sensible, and just cos u don't like it doesn't mean it's not good. If 1.3 were crap then there wouldn't be this much argument.

And you are NOT going to get a soap company to change it's work practises by spraypainting abuse on their factory wall.

Not only That Phoenix but IT'S THE LAW THAT THEY OWN THEIR GAME AND CAN DO WHAT THEY LIKE WITH IT :twisted:

if no1 likes their current design and they will start to get fustrated cause they are just losing (money, or just feeling angry like in 1.3) they will try to change it in their new "invention"

DVE, again your not making sense..
i didnt say a thing about buying the game means i have the copy rights on it

but if no1 will love the game then its just pieace of crap
the games company dont want that to happen therfor in PATCHS usualy look for bugs, in larger changes and espicely afer 4 years without a change they would've look around and ask around.. and in mods and other games that they are not sure they are asking the public for feedback and advices..

take the caps off and im gonna stop replying cause your life vision is somewhat *Ammo*ed up and ur so close minded its just useless... u are proving to every1 you are close minded and does not listen to what other tell you (type..) u are just trying to put it exactly negetive to what you think so you could commen and prove to *yourself* you are right while others dont even udnerstand where the hell you got that from...

im realy gonna stop replying to ya.. its almost exactly talking to a wall..

Yup, it's their code, and they can do what they want with it.  Porsche can also equip 911's with square wheels if they so choose.

WHAT THE *Ammo* ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HUH? AND I'LL KEEP THE CAPS ON IF I *Ammo*ING WELL LIKE,

NUMBER 1) they are beta testing this patch for the community as an act of caring for this community and because THEY THEMSELVES WANT THE GAME TO BE RIGHT they didn't develop the game to be left with loads of bugs in it and leave like some developers do

NUMBER 2) JUST BECAUSE THE STUPID BLOODY PUBLIC LIKES SOMETHING THAT IS POPULAR DOESN'T MEAN IT IS BRILLIANT, THEY'RE ARE LOADS OF EXAMPLES WHERE PEOPLE BOUGHT THINGS BECAUSE IT WAS POPULAR AND IT TURNED OUT TO BE A STINKING PIECE OF hoot so where you get that rubbish about noone loving the game because it didn't sell is a load of bull you prove it because you bought the damn game.

And i really don't give a *Ammo* if you don't reply to me after all, do you actually go to any schools at all ? you have been TALKING A LOAD OF CRAP SO FAR AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT UNDERSTAND THIS, THERE WILL BE AS FAR AS EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS NO BZ3 SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO A PATCH WHATSOEVER FOR MARKETING OR TO FIND OUT WHAT THE PUBLIC WANT BECAUSE THERE IS VERY LITTLE OF THE GAMING PUBLIC BUYING BZ2 IN DROVES IS THERE?
AS FOR MY LIFE VISION? HA I AM TALKING REALITY TO YOU BOY   SO IF IT IS *Ammo*ED UP FOR YOU , GOOD, BUT NO ONE IS GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR YOU ,ESPECIALLY IF IT IS THEIR IDEA, IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT SORRY SON BUT *Ammo* YOU ,

Yeah Mowerman , they can and Porsche can put square, oblong, triangle wheels on thier cars even if it is the most stupid and unpopular thing to do

Mower, ever consider the idea of biometal hovering technology being like an electromagnetic bubble of projected surface tension (like a cohesive field generated soap bubble almost)? After all BZ2 hovers certainly don't behave as if they had some kind of gravitic engine...note the relative difficulty of getting over a cliff edge - is it that you are dragging your "bubble" over it?

Also much easier to stuff about with electromagnetism than it is to mess with gravitons I'd imagine. Plus far more energy efficiency - gravity can accelerates you from the top of a building at <10m/s/s but the electromagnetic forces holding the concrete together slow you a lot quicker than that. Unless I was designing something to fly quickly into orbit or travel beween gravity wells I wouldn't bother with em. A gravitic force generator would be pretty useful to eg: keep an installation precisely aligned at a La-Grange point.

Quotebut if no1 will love the game then its just pieace of crap

You are assuming that "no1 likes the game."  I see the ones that dislike it are in a minority.  I would guess that maybe even some people that disliked it for the hovering might even come back (if they ever catch wind of it).

Not if they get jerks  talking crap all the time, about how they are "vets" and how the hovering bug should be put back as if it's their right or some goddamn stupidness.whether its a bug or not I don't care, and to be honest I am glad the damn hovering is gone if it means the other bugs are squashed, OK I admit I would like to know how it is done, but I can well live without it, especailly of it stops Battelzone 2 freezing half way through a game. If the developers don't want , they don't want it, it's their game and they have the overall and final say , no one else does, end of story.

lol DVE i dont even bother reading anymore..

@ nuke

you have bz?
open your 1.3.. how many 1.2 games and how many 1.3 games are they?
then think again what is minorty
check also later at night... i dont know where u from but check euro nights (usa noons) and check usa nights... and again
tell me who is in minroty..
so the mods are on 1.3? or the offline players?
i think that the offline players is a minrotiy.. thats based on my opnion - i might be totaly wrong though.... modders are on 1.3 well they can make new mods and w/e but if no1 (sure that i dont mean ALL but i mean most) dont like the engines i dont think they will just go there cause of a mod...
and if some will love the mod they will try to make it 1.2


this forum is a minority of the community... i am an active online player, i barly see any of this guys play and i play almost daily
now maybe on this forums we are the minority cause the community playing 1.2 dont give a *Ammo* about this forums and dont like 1.3...
i know personaly some people that got back to check 1.3... but they said its crap ATM... they hoped for the next beta though...

PFE are you some sort of trouble maker.....? if not.....shut that *&#$ up :evil: you have got to be the biggest whiner of all time. just try to be postitive for a change and give gsh a break

Roger that pharoh,
Phoenix I really don't give  a hoot if you don't read my post,'s I am suprised you can even read,

You know something you are so lucky that isn't me that was the developer and you came out with some of the hoot you have come out with,especailly with "You developed the game for us, not you " bullhoot let me tell if it was me I would show you just how much of the communities, BZ1 and 2  games are.


First of all I would have a poll on this forum find out how many think it is "their game" and not the developer's, if it was lots of people like you then I would have taken down both 1.3 and 1.2 patches, tell Pandemic that this game doesn't sell and I have no interest in it anymore, let them order every website, i.e clan websites , modding websites, forums e.t.c. to shutdown and leave only the multiplayer games up. Then come back to this forum and announce it in a thread and break up the community for ever with the thread "Who's game is it now?" And problably get this forum shut down too. So you, in particular , better apologise to GSH if you have any sense.

Ken and Nathan are in their right to do this, they can do this ,because you see all of this results from the BZ1 & 2 copyright which they and Pandemic own, so you pissing them off must surely bring them closer to that decision, who know's they might do it after Star Wars Battlefront, and they might have an offical forum for that so they can see which of the whiners from this community go onto the boards there and simply ban them.

like that?

im really against banning/kicking ppl but DVE`s speaking nothing but nonsense and he has used the word *Ammo* at least once on most of his post on the last 2 pages.... i mean i saw a thread getting locked locked for much less.

Another brain dead, did you actually bother to read the damn thread acer, ? or are you just mouthing off?

haha good 1 acer

now dve i dont think i flammed you even once.. just show me where i called YOU stupied.. i said your vision is *Ammo*ed up abit maybe thats a flame but not as dumb as saying "im surprised u can even read"

i havnt read all.. just 1st few lines to see ur still acting unmature


oh im sorry pharoh - i have to be postive to everything? i wonder what happend if u were in a war against smaller country or something...
"why cant u be postive about us killing you?"
im taking the extreme here just to show you that u cant be postive to anything.. i dont like it and im allowed to be negetive... if we were all postive nothing to improve...
im not trying to whine are just causes trouble, not at all... i do want a better game and more fun for all... its sad that it fell on the hovering flying all this issue... my freedom in bz2 went away with the hover.. its not cause only the hover got away... i want the freedom i had in 1.2.. the "speed" the agilty.. i feel more "alive" in 1.2 then 1.3... thats what i want to change

QuoteAnother brain dead, did you actually bother to read the damn thread acer, ? or are you just mouthing off?

Your right DVE i dindt read the whole thread... more precisely i dindt read all your posts.... I`m not sure why though.. was it becouse they were all in capitol wich game me headaches? Or was it becouse i read your posts on the sentry thread wich dindt make much sense either? hmmm.... not sure
Ah hell i guess it was becouse of the content of the posts i did read.
oh and heres a piece of advice to you: you dont wanna go calling people brain dead before you know them i mean you might just look bad if theyre not and you dont want that to happen do you?

Quotenow dve i dont think i flammed you even once.. just show me where i called YOU stupied.. i said your vision is *Ammo*ed up abit maybe thats a flame but not as dumb as saying "im surprised u can even read"

Excuse me acer see not just me swearing hmmm? what's the matter, couldn't see that you dumb jerk ?

Oh by the way At least I can spell OK Phoenix because you are another jackass, and what the hell are you whining about now? still going on and on about hovering ,which for year's everyone was told it would be taken out, you still must whine about that, also yeah, they might be Ken and Nathan working on improving the scout , but not the way your going about it.

Oh I not suprised you haven;t read at all by the way

Yeah, acer and you want actually read what's going on before butting in and making accusations after all wasn't just me swearing away OK?

Quote from: Der Vampyr Engel

Quotenow dve i dont think i flammed you even once.. just show me where i called YOU stupied.. i said your vision is *Ammo*ed up abit maybe thats a flame but not as dumb as saying "im surprised u can even read"

Excuse me acer see not just me swearing hmmm? what's the matter, couldn't see that you dumb jerk ?

Oh by the way At least I can spell OK Phoenix because you are another jackass, and what the hell are you whining about now? still going on and on about hovering ,which for year's everyone was told it would be taken out, you still must whine about that, also yeah, they might be Ken and Nathan working on improving the scout , but not the way your going about it.

Oh I not suprised you haven't read at all by the way

i read your latest one... was interting... not much senseless stuff...

you have problem with my spelling? is it not readable? I'm sorry for not looking up into each work correcting it and looking one word after another and writing slowly like I am now just to show you I can write with no spelling mistakes

(back to writing fast..)
but basicly, i dont care as long as its readable.. there were also some research that if the 1st letter and the last letter are in place and the word just looks alike (eevn if teh odrer is msesed up) its readable
so instead of going over it word by word looking for my spell mistakes read it and relzie the context not the "words"

listen I realise the context of what you are saying even though  you can't goddamn spell and all what your saying is how much of a vet you are, and how you been playing for 5 years, and how hovering should be back in because all the vets want it and all the other crap you come out with like how Ken and Nathan made the game for the community and not them and how it's the communites game and not their's .

Yeah I understand all that rubbish, (by the way it's word, not work) but did you understand me? did you even even understand that it ain't yours or the communites game? that it's Pandemic's and/or Ken and Nathan's game, that they put a lot of sweat and sleepness nights into struggling with BZ2 with no support from Activison or Pandemic, do you even understand that? huh? and that it is their final decision what goes in and what dosen't go in to Battlezone 2 1.3 and yes they can tell all those who don't like it where to go?

Do you even understand that? or what?

i do understand ur vision on it but i disagree... and some others disagree as well.. look above... now, u wanna try to to solve it civilzed over icq or msn m?

Phoenix, what is there to solve? huh? it is their game, don't you understand that? it's their game, period and you and me discussing it in MSN isn't going to change that You could get me in Yahoo and I possibly need to reregister with MSN and you can discuss it all you like but the facts remain and are plain to see.

IT IS THEIR GAME, END OF STORY, END OF DISCUSSION And nothing you and I discuss is gonna change that.

I mean, if that is what you want , fine but understand this it dosen't matter if it's just 10% of the community who comes onto these forums and 90% of the "vets" stay online, it doesn't matter if you have 3 billon players online playing BZ2 1.2 the fact remain's cold and hard that it is Kens, GSH'S and Pandemic's and Activision's game and if they say no hovering, whether it is a bug or not, whether you get 3 billon people voting to keep flying or not , they and you do not have the final decision on it, end of story.

Ask Napster why they got in trouble with the record industry, or the amount of rappers who had to pay millions in royalites to other bands who's music they rapped over.

Quote from: PhoeniX-FlamEthis forum is a minority of the community...

As you indicate here, many of those games you see out there could be people that don't visit these forums and may not even know about 1.3.  And I'll bet half of those that have said it is crap ATM haven't even played it and are going off of hearsay (no doubt they play only with their clan and their clan leadership doesn't like it so they don't play it).

And I do have 1.2 and 1.3 and even 1.1.  The number of games out there is small no matter what version you are talking about.  Perhaps it would grow bigger as the general public might like it a bit more if the playing field were a bit more level (no hovering).  If you've played other online games, you will find that the playing fields on the more popular ones is very leveled.

to PXE & acer

what is with you 2. dont you know in your brain dead heads that bz2 is tweakable. if you dont i wouldnt be suprised. after MT and DS were ousted i thought all the whining was gone, but as i can see the whiners a alive and there kickin!!

Der Vempyr Engel wrote ;
"WHAT THE *Ammo* ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HUH? AND I'LL KEEP THE CAPS ON IF I *Ammo*ING WELL LIKE,
NUMBER 1) they are beta testing this patch for the community as an act of caring for this community and because THEY THEMSELVES WANT THE GAME TO BE RIGHT they didn't develop the game to be left with loads of bugs in it and leave like some developers do
NUMBER 2) JUST BECAUSE THE STUPID BLOODY PUBLIC LIKES SOMETHING THAT IS POPULAR DOESN'T MEAN IT IS BRILLIANT, THEY'RE ARE LOADS OF EXAMPLES WHERE PEOPLE BOUGHT THINGS BECAUSE IT WAS POPULAR AND IT TURNED OUT TO BE A STINKING PIECE OF hoot so where you get that rubbish about noone loving the game because it didn't sell is a load of bull you prove it because you bought the damn game.
And i really don't give a *Ammo* if you don't reply to me after all, do you actually go to any schools at all ? you have been TALKING A LOAD OF CRAP SO FAR AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT UNDERSTAND THIS, THERE WILL BE AS FAR AS EVERYBODY HERE KNOWS NO BZ3 SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO A PATCH WHATSOEVER FOR MARKETING OR TO FIND OUT WHAT THE PUBLIC WANT BECAUSE THERE IS VERY LITTLE OF THE GAMING PUBLIC BUYING BZ2 IN DROVES IS THERE?
AS FOR MY LIFE VISION? HA I AM TALKING REALITY TO YOU BOY   SO IF IT IS *Ammo*ED UP FOR YOU , GOOD, BUT NO ONE IS GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR YOU ,ESPECIALLY IF IT IS THEIR IDEA, IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT SORRY SON BUT *Ammo* YOU ,

Please can the moderators do something about this character??
Or are deletions only for posts about hovering??

Many of us have children who do read these threads, and I object
to such repeated foul language being flouted without regard to
forum rules.

Excuse me Dirty jacksss, I don't see you saying anything about Phoenix's language, or for that matter Acer's second of all you jackass I think you wanna make something of it with me I see your stupid comments about me in another post and all you've done is come and start on me again jackass

Do you actually know what the row is about? no so why don't you shut the hell up . dickhead.

I agree DR, not just the foul language but the repetitive nonsense. Make your point then move on.

Another asshole ading his 0 cents worh

Read the forum rules and act appropriately. Flaming is another no-no,how do you think this nonsense started?

Yeah and you just want to carry it on eh? Phoenix and me have had our row and guess who shows up to put more petrol on the fire Dirty Rooster and you, another set who don't even bother to read what the row is about .

No wonder Lizard left, you know something that ain't such a bad thought

Quoteto PXE & acer

what is with you 2. dont you know in your brain dead heads that bz2 is tweakable. if you dont i wouldnt be suprised. after MT and DS were ousted i thought all the whining was gone, but as i can see the whiners a alive and there kickin!!

hmmm.... where did i say that bz2 wasnt tweakable? ive only posted a few times and im sure i never said such a thing, as a matter of fact i like 1.3 and i play it everyday, i like it even better with the new "vet recycler" variant as it makes the scouts 1.2 like, as for hover i really dont care in or out doesnt make a diference to me.

QuoteExcuse me Dirty jacksss, I don't see you saying anything about Phoenix's language, or for that matter Acer's second of all you jackass I think you wanna make something of it with me I see your stupid comments about me in another post and all you've done is come and start on me again jackass

Do you actually know what the row is about? no so why don't you shut the hell up . dickhead.

can you please show were on my second post , or any of my posts i`ve used foul language? i really dont think so buddy. You on the other hand seems quite eager to swear in every chance you get.


As for the moderators please do as Dirty Rooster says DVEs posts are not of constructive nature and are only offending people not to metion wasting bandwith.

As tempting as it is to close this thread, it could be providing some posters with a place to vent...  better here than all over the boards.

I will say that it's come THIS close to being closed, and won't take much to push it over the edge.  Express yourself but keep it reasonably clean and don't make it TOO personal.

-Av-
(with his finger on the button)

posted by acer

Quoteim really against banning/kicking ppl but DVE`s speaking nothing but nonsense and he has used the word *Ammo* at least once on most of his post on the last 2 pages.... i mean i saw a thread getting locked locked for much less.

before you start trying to wash yourself and make youself clean and lillywhite acer you stupid brain dead, be consistant OK?

We do not need your vulgarities and insults here. Take them somewhere else. If you want to be heard and/or respected, talk like a civilized person.

Quote from: Der Vampyr Engelposted by acer

Quoteim really against banning/kicking ppl but DVE`s speaking nothing but nonsense and he has used the word *Ammo* at least once on most of his post on the last 2 pages.... i mean i saw a thread getting locked locked for much less.

before you start trying to wash yourself and make youself clean and lillywhite acer you stupid brain dead, be consistant OK?

*sigh*

I've received several PM complaints about abuse DVE, but I don't see your posts as any more rabid than some that came out right when 1.3 was released.  I appreciate that you feel strongly about this but you're making yourself a magnet here...

In other words, you've had your time to vent, now calm it down, clean it up, and drop the personal barbs.  Your reply above would have been just as good without the "you stupid brain dead" part, and it would have helped stop the trend in this thread towards personal flame wars.

Everyone else lay off DVE for a bit, see if he clams down. If he doesn't I'll calm him down...

-Av-

Well Sloar, the one thing ya gotta agree on, is that the hover force is a unidirectional point generated field, and not a focused field.  The evidence of this, is that the "hover" is not dependant on the orientation of the craft.  Or if it is a focused field, the horn is on a gyro that always keeps it oriented toward the local gravitational force.  A point source unidirectional field is more concieveable by my way of thinking (psudo-antimatter).

Magnetic forces are related to gravitational forces and they both exhibit behaviour predicted by the inverse square law.  No mater how you look at it, the hover effect in BZ/BZ2 craft are countering gravity (no thrust required).   The force builds up asymtotically as the field comes in close contact with other solid matter, hence the "terrain following".

The thrusters are non-atmosphere dependant, so they are probably magnetically accelerated ion based.

Thanks for the well thought out responses Slaor.   I am contributing to the debate as someone who likes flying, but likes the 1.3 patch more, and someone who still loves BattleZone overall.

Lol,

What part of rule #1 don't you people understand?

:)

-Av-

(go Mow-ah, go Mow-ah)

This Thread is getting out of hand.

nm.