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It nearly works that way, but not quite. A bunch of weapons have slight differences between their damage to heavy armour, and their damage vs the best shield.

Also, yes, absorbtion shields tend to be the best, but again, not always. Deflection can count for a lot against chainguns, in particular.

That one in BZNES is a toned-down version of the original. I just went looking for the original, but I couldn't find it. Think it might be in the rev.C data files for FE...
Either way, methinks you need to include ammo mileage and shield damage in there to get an accurate guide.

I have that movie, And Mathilda May is something rather special in it...

Yep, if it's going to be that fast at regenerating, make it a 20m blink, but to be honest it'll probably do people's heads in with BZ2 warp. I'd suggest going for 10 seconds, but keeping the max range at 40m, if you make it any more it'll be an escape mechanism, and that won't do will it?

About the same as it does in 1.2 will be right RD. i think it's about 200 ammo plus 1 ammo per 2 meters, but that's just from memory.

As for the explosions - I assume you're talking about blinkin and blinkout right? Their damage is ok, but their push effect should be removed IMO. The scattering of service trucks from blink is a little ridiculously good for stopping a serviced assault.

DS,ss a brief summary - weapons ARE balanced in 1.2 when scions have blink. The dogfights ARE fair when there are evenly matched players using blast/chain against arc/gauss.
All this talk of blink you witness are ways of makking it LESS powerful, which isn't for the sake of dogfight balance, it's so that scions can't just give up the 50% of the time they lose.

As for MDM - this would only need balancing if scions couldn't fight it off. In the late-game sonic is a perfect counter to MDM. In the mid game it's an issue, but simply because ISDF can keep the scion team at bay with lasers so that they can't get out there and shoot the MDM-wielding tank, an issue we'll probably see balanced with something like giving sentries absorbtion shields as a stock armament.

Or, as an even-briefer summary, the dogfights already ARE balanced, and will remain just as balanced if blink is modified, because short 20m blinks to confuse the opponent can be used in the current 1.2 games, and don't unbalance the dogfights.

Yes it is DS.

Please RD, I think we're losing the point a little here with the recharge rates...

Allow scions with blink to 'hit and run' enemy pools or bases, but don't allow them to instantly save their own lives in combat.

This can be done in 2 ways -
a: Combat blink should be SHORT range. I don't mean 100m, I mean something SMALL like 40m, put that right down to about 20m if it's going to be ready again in less than 5 seconds. This is enough to confuse the opponent in a dogfight, helping the scion player befuddle him or get some nice shots to hit side-profile, or assist an escape, but it's not enough to just instantaneously get out of range of his weapons. (Consider that most combat takes place at or near max weapon range).

b: Assault blink should not only be LONG in range (3000m), it should also recharge quickly, and probably eat ammo as well. Can't you make assault blink exactly like it is in 1.2?


See, having it take long to recharge would remove the ability to hit and run pools etc, so scions would just be at a massive strategic disadvantage due to their lack of mortars, with not enough advantage from their 'hit and run'.
If, on the other hand, it is quick to recharge (less than 15 seconds), then blinking to hit pools would become TOO powerful, since you wouldn't even need to recharge much ammo, a scion team could use strip the map of pools in no time, and ignore the dogfights altogether.
As such, an ammo cost is the best solution for assault blink.

300m wont get people around the map! I'd ramp that up significantly if I were you, and I mean *way* up. If they're not dogfighting you (assault mode), then let them travel around.


As for stopping missiles with seekers or solar flares - I agee with the principle, but in practice it's hard. The solar flare will only attract missiles that do not have to lock on, and the seeker HAS to have a tiny profile to stop if from hitting the ship that laid it instantaneously. This tiny profile tends to make it so bad at stopping missiles they usually travel right through the thing. If one of those could be fixed, then that's cool, but if not, it might be worth tweaking static charge.

While I'm on the subject I just felt like reminding you, RD, that the scions are too weak in the early game (far too weak), mainly because of FAF missiles, laser and MDM. I know you're probably looking into that, but just in case you aren't, I wanted to remind you. Feel free to not acknowledge this paragraph to keep things hush-hush about development.

Even if you just blink 100meters in combat mode, it's enough to ruin the scion special selection, and overpower them in the late game. That said, 50meter with 1 second recharge for every 5 meters travelled sounds about right, and a basic cost of 400 ammo.

As for assault blink - I'd say about 1 ammo per 2 meters travelled, with an additional 150 ammo for firing the blink no matter the distance, and no recharge time at all.

Oh, and is there any chance static charge can be made to prevent missile locks, similar to VIR? It'd make the late game more interesting for scion v ISDF games if the scion player had to choose between anti-missile and blink, and on the ISDF side it'd be interesting to have to 'cover all bases', rather than just pump rocket tanks.

We should leave them around. As long as blink can't get you out of range in a dogfight, it's ok, that means plenty of range is fine, provided the morph is needed before use.

long-range low-ammo cost in Assualt mode for
getting around the map on pool-duty and commanding,
but REMOVE its 'escape' use in combat mode. In Combat mode how about a short-lived VIR effect of, say, 5 seconds?
Some ideas.

This solution sounds excellent, I'd love to see that. It'd be akin to a chargeup effect, but integrating the scion morph dynamic into the mix as well, and it still functions to stop scion players blinking when they're on red health to avoid death. Plus, the ISDF player gets some warning that their opponent is going to blink.
Not being able to attack while morphing adds another 'cost' to in-combat blinking. The solution is brilliant in my eyes, and the ammo cost of assault blink, if this solution is implemented, can be rather low while still retaining balance.

I, too, like the idea of being able to travel around using blink, but not using it in combat. The travel thing is a good strategic element, but the combat ability of blink is what makes it a game-spoiler.

As I posted before, the issue with blink isn't the transportation ability, it's the fact that it saves you from a tight situation.
Trouble is, if you ramp the ammo cost up high enough to make dogfighting with mind to blink away impractical, it means you can't really use it for much else either.

That said, if it really *had* to be balanced in ammo cost and reload terms, I'd say give it a firerate of about 3 minutes, but keep the ammo cost nice and low (about 1000ammo base, but 0 extra cost for distance). That way, it could be used as transportation, but if used in a dogfight the enemy would have a chance to chase you down and finish you, and more importantly you wouldn't be able to blink back to them after you collected your pod.

Is the chargegun idea still not washing with the devs?

There will ALWAYS be an issue with skilled vs non-skilled players.Ã,  The idea of having Vets balance a game is just as bad as having Newbs balance a game, in fact it virtually assures that no new players will play the game

This is an issue I feel rather strongly about, because people always seem to miss the big issue - If a new player plays a game balanced for vets, he always has the option to just get better. There's always away for a new player to beat another new player in a given game - increase in skill.

At the vet end, though, there isn't such an option. Most BZ2 uber-vets are at at least, I'd say, 95% of their maximum skill level. They're learned every trick, their aim is close to exact, their dodging as good as it possibly can be, ad their kowledge of strategy rather all-emcompassing.
If such a vet goes into a game with another similarly skilled player/team, then is faced with something that he just can't beat, it can often be because it's not balanced for them. With no option to adjust in skill (get better) the beaten player is left with one option - use the same technique. Before long it will commonly be called 'abusive', not just by a oe-off whining game loser like DS mentioned, but by the vet community at large, and with no way to beat it, they have to ban it instead.
Flying mortar bikes were such an issue, as was base hovering. There are other issues of balance agreed by the vast majority of veteran players, such as the early-game scion weakness, or the power of blink. These things should be balanced.

As for the newer players - well, first of all, they'd benefit because vets wouldn't be able to run rings around them with overpowered tactics (such as blinking arc/gauss warriors trapping them in base, or locking them down with base hovering). Secondly, if there's something they really don't want to reproduce, they can always just learn a counter on their road to being a better player.


In summary, I'd say all this talk of 'vet balance' vs 'newb balance' is an unclear and unconstructive way to look at things. I find the best way to look at competitive videogame balance is simply to look for strategies that, when taken to their fullest potential, cannot be countered. If you find such a strategy, either:
a:  weaken it so that it CAN be countered (eg 1.3 mortar bikes or turret circling),
b: make something else more specifically powerful against it so that it can be countered (like ZST turrets shooting hoverers),  or
c: just take it out completely (eg 1.3 hovering).

Locking scions down in their early game is a tactic that cannot be countered. It could be fixed with a tone-down of laser, or by giving scions a counter (like giving stock sentries absorbtion shields).
Using blink and hunting in the late game is a tactic that (marginally debateably) cannot be countered. It could be fixed with a chargeup blink, a slow-firing somewhat random destination blink, or the removal of blink completey.

Whether you're the newest of the new or the most experienced vet in the world, you will not beat these tactics if they are executed by a half-decent vet, and as such I view the vets vs newbs argument to be redundant. These issues need addressing no matter how you swing it.

Both joining at *exactly* the same time works fine too. We've done it loads among uscm members, often joining aougli's FE games together from the same house, even though aougli lives in another house miles away.