In this deathmatch, all the units, the players and bots, were impossible to hit.
Take this ai bot for example:
(http://www.private.is/arni/target.jpg)
I have a target lock on it, it's moving slower than a scav, the dot is like 40 m to the right, and I'm shooting at the actual warrior, not the dot...and I'm not doing any damage. I'd expect this in 1.2 while the unit was moving at 500 mph, but when the units aren't moving fast I'd expect to see their actual position.
The odd thing about this is that tli seems perfectly accurate, its just the visual immage warping behind the ship. Also, this does have a cyclic nature, the visual gets farther and farther behind then jumps back to relatively close. All moving ships do it, from scavs to tanks.
Maybe I'm over-estimating?...but that sorta seems like a killer bug.
Oh, it is. Pretty eazy to hit if you use the red dot, but if you rely on the visual like you should be able to then you wont hit anything.
So, let me get this right.
- In 1.2 you could shoot at nearby slow moving units without getting a target lock on them, and you would be sure to hit them. So, you *always* see nearby slow moving units in their actual position without the need to get a target lock on them.
- In 1.3 you have to get a target lock on them, and aim for the dot, because you can't trust what you see on the screen. So, you never see units in their actual position in 1.3.
I'll let you guys think about this for a moment, and judge which one is better. :roll:
Yes, it looks like an obvious bug that creeped in at the last moment (as they are wont to do). Please don't expect an immediate fix for it though. I know it's frustrating, but these things take time and the guys who fix it have lives too.
This hasn't creeped in at the last minute. It has always been there, it was there since pb1, it was there before that too. Maybe more pronounced mow, but the visual lagging behind the actual was there since ghosting was fixed. Go ask scout about it.
Based on a direct comparison of the public beta and the last private build, the problem got drastically worse for the public beta release candidates. In the last public beta, you could collide into a unit without clipping half way into the unit's model. The model's position was for the most part accurate. Issues did arrise for strafing units, but units traveling in a straight line were accurately placed.
Well, I left a lot of tuning values in. Nobody ever seems to be playing with things.
-- GSH
I started toying with them the night I noticied the unit positioning problem. I didn't have much luck getting more accurate positioning, but I also don't have a complete understanding of what each value changes and how the changes affect units ingame.
I played with them, doesn't cahnge much. Only useful factor is game.showsmoothline into the console because that will point to where the ship actually is.
QuotePretty eazy to hit if you use the red dot
Sadly that dot is delayed too, even in lan games. Hard to mount visual stuff to hit spheres/boxes ? And this problem already was in every bz2 version, its just much more terrible in both 1.3 beta releases. Imo the issue made the game unplayable already in 1.3pb1 and it infact was the reason why i stopped playing/modding for 1.3.
Adjusting game.maxsmooth to a high value (10) decreased the length of the line displayed by game.showsmoothline. The collision box and scav model were also positioned pretty accurately, but this was in linear testing, the scavenger driving in a straight line. I did not test a unit strafing back and forth, which would require human vs. human testing because the ai doesn't take advantage of strafeing.
I'll join you in a game now..
I was wondering if its possible to adjust a complete sync (mounting) with collision spheres/boxes in visual studio ? Not sure, but it seems that those collision spheres/boxes react to inputs correctly.
welcome to 1.3 beta build 31
Using collisionRadius, you can make the units avoid collisions very well. Makes them spread out nicely in groups too.
in multiplayer? might that make things warp bad? always thought about changing that cfg but didnt think it would fly to well in mp.
(http://www.zemod.com/Images/screenies/unimportant/red_dot_delay.jpg)
Here is a screenie which should show some info about the amount of red dot delay. (scout running nearly at full speed)
I was using game.maxsmooth like Commando posted and Space was using 8. We both have ATI 9600XT video cards.
I haven't noticed any problems.
Quote from: Scout on March 05, 2006, 10:51:39 PM
in multiplayer? might that make things warp bad? always thought about changing that cfg but didnt think it would fly to well in mp.
Quote from: spAce on March 05, 2006, 10:55:32 PM
Here is a screenie which should show some info about the amount of red dot delay. (scout running nearly at full speed)
I'm not sure what you're showing. The red dot SHOULD be out ahead of a Scout running full speed, as you have to lead the target...
Are you shooting him at the point shown, with the red dot to the right of that position, showing that the actual position of the unit is ahead of both the TLI and the visual model?
Just so I understand what the screenshot is showing, it does look like you're firing...
-Av-
I think, from now on, screenshots showing the image lag should be shown with an instant hit weapon on a light colored background... Minigun, is not instant hit. For that matter... only use Laser or Arc Cannon, since they require NO target leading.
QuoteAre you shooting him at the point shown, with the red dot to the right of that position, showing that the actual position of the unit is ahead of both the TLI and the visual model?
Yes, my bullets were hitting the scout in that image. Ive been trying to make smoothing better with gameprefs.ini, only getting more worse. This issue requires recoding.
My understanding is that if it were just a smoothing issue the TLI would be right, but the visual model wouldn't. With both being wrong it does seem like there's something else at work here...
-Av-
Just finished running Loot and the warping/lagging was intense. Tried setting game.maxsmooth from high to low and it didn't help a bit. Actually thought the bots were using Blink as they disappeared and went from in front of me to in back of me instantly.
Try setting the minsmoothdt and maxsmoothdt values to 0, or otherwise tweaking them.
I tried that, min is .000001 or something (mentioned in gameprefs.ini) so it cant be zero. All messing with this did was make the visual immage hold still then move to the actual position each multiworld swap.
TLI doest tell you how far Ahead youhave to lead to compensate for acceleration you have to be preominent... same went for bz2 1.2, in 1.3 thats alot harder to judge due to the visual catchup the model is doing.
I had a fraps where i was shooting clear though some units with blast cannon, better yet to hit these units drving by my ass tank id have to aim many many ship lengths into the air infront of them to actually score a hit, and yes you can see a model hit sprite show up against the hitbox in thin air like your hitting a cloaked ship.....
ill try diging it up, but why do you need the proof? this was since build 31 publicbeta1 its jawdroping that it was so hard for people too see.
even more so it was brought to attention long before this release and Commando makes it sound like it was something that just popped out of no where......
Well, this works perfectly in 1.2 :) I'm off to play it, have fun tweaking this for another 2 years, I'm off. :mrgreen:
Ignore my last post, tom was right. Looks like setting minsmoothdt and maxsmoothdt to zero make it work. It looked like 1.2 :-D
Quote from: Scoutill try diging it up, but why do you need the proof? this was since build 31 publicbeta1 its jawdroping that it was so hard for people too see.
Why can't people understand the dizzying variations in computers and connections present in gaming today? And how hard it is to take them all into account when writing game code?
BZ2 has always run very well for me but then I have absolutely vanilla equipment, running vanilla drivers on a vanilla connection. (well, maybe the connection is strawberry now that I have cable...) :) When people were crashing left and right I was playing two hour MPI games with Ice without issues. Without 100+ framerates, and without 4 other humans involved, and without custom anything, but it worked very well for me.
Guess that makes me a bad tester, but it does help highlight the fact that just because someone isn't seeing the same things you do it doesn't mean it's not there...
***
As long as I'm almost ranting, people also don't seem to 'get' the term 'beta', either. I hate to see people pop in, say "this sucks" and leave. At least be more constructive and outline what's wrong as clearly as you can, to help the effort.
I need a nap...before bedtime.... :)
-Av-
Spawn/Scout: if you're going to complain as to a bug being present since "build X," (and X was way before pb1), then you should take the time to note how long you've had access to the ability to tweak those numbers. Just to be fair.
-- GSH
I'm more intrigued than anything. I've had Avatar and Commando in my sessions a few builds back and no adjustment was needed as everything was where it was supposed to be.
Now I'm wondering why this started happening and why setting the dt settings to zero fixes it for Spawn and Wz. Haven't tried it myself yet, but will shortly.
dt being zero doesnt fix it, it only sets it to the defaults. I tested it on my own and with appel, it works great. I'll post a link to my gameprefs.ini when i find it.
EDIT: here it is (http://www.spike.http.co.il/uploads/up/A001239.7z)
Now, if only the ground-bumping can be removed then I'm willing to test it more. I don't know what needs to be done, so I'll let you guys figure it out :) a new recycler or something?
Nah, just some ODF tweaks. Good news on the dt settings and good find by Wz.
This is what it looks like to me from a far distance. I will get one from a close distance soon.
[attachment deleted by admin]
dont u have 2k lag squirrel?
Setting dt to zero just makes the defaults used actually :-P
The two DT values do NOT go to "defaults" when set to 0. The shell shows them at 0 and thus they are not applied every frame. Thus, there is no minimum or maximum smoothing information per frame, from my understanding. That is why I recommended setting them to 0 to begin with, or tweaking them to something non-stock if setting them to 0 didn't help.
My gameprefs has had them at 0 for a few days now.
For anyone just joining us, go here:
http://www.bzuniverse.com/forum/index.php/topic,5632.0.html
-Av-
By setting them at zero I had the same effects as setting them at defaults.
When I popped them to 0 I got vastly different results then at defaults, which is how I know they work differently.