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As long as the mits mine and flare mine are on the same team it works.

Back in the TsL days we use to mits/flare alot of bases.

If the miuts lands near a unit(suck as a turr) it activates and draws the flare's "flare" towards it.

Worked better then just normal flaring because they can't move the turr away from the flare. Mits locks them there.

We also did it in the field, mits a player then drop a flare near-by. The flare curls down into the mits mine, killing the player but not the mine.

Was fun for hit&runs while being able to go hit pools while they died

me

Thank you PF.

Its like trying to argue with a a toddler.

"No! I want! Mine!! Gimme!"

"No, you can't have it, it burns!"

"YOUR WRONG! GIMME!"



Wing, the computer controls the world. The world which you see is jsut a bunch of numbers that define how everything behaves.

Since the computer has access to all these numbers, it can calcuate how everything will behave.

"It is IRRELEVANT how fast a CPU can think or act, BZ2 is set in a world of rules which many humans can react to as fast as the world allows. So the bot has no real Advantage in how fast it can process."

LOL. No you can't. Your reaction speed will not be faster then 200ms.
In that time, the DLL Execute will have run 20 times. YOU can't reaction as fast as the world allows, I'm afraid its a physical FACT.

It will know exactly where you are at all times and what your building without haven't anything near you.

"...These are just a few of the INFINITE possibilites of which we could never possibly make a bot prepared for. Which is why, even if bots were better at dogfighting (they will never be), they would still NOT be worth as much as a human is worth."

WRONG again.

There are NOT infinite possibilities. Your acting like BZ2 is a real world.

sorry to burst your bubble, but everything in the BZ2 would is stored on a computer. That means there are only so many different combinations that can exist for the BZ2. That is another FACT.

"I know I am pissing people off here.

I'm not asking for much.

I just think that the AI, which is (and this is not an argument), in it's current state not even close to as good as a human in any area. Should not be hindered. (With the exception of turrets).

I just want AI Avengers to be able to shoot shads as fast as possible in strategy. "

Your not pissing us off, your just making us laugh with your childish arguements which ignore the facts.

I also disagree with multiplayer unless you are going to lock bz2 as only 2 player.

Like has been said before. The majority of regular games that are played are 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 Strats.

If you make the AI much better, the need for human thugs will diminish.

Already in ZST, if I have an intermediate thug, it is better for me to move AI control turrets into the field then give him a ship.

I played 1.3 two days ago now, I also 1v1 you. My AI units stopped me from having to do almost anything to beat you.

You keep whining for proof, but PF and I have already told you where to get it.

GET ZTV, a mod for BZ2. Get Zero Angel's ODF's. They destroy you even with bz2's "crap AI".

Stop whining for proof when we are giving it too you, but you just won't look.

You honestly have no clue do you Wing?

"In Battlezone 2, since there is no headshot factor, it would mean that bots have to hit you every single time, I do not believe that this is possible as I believe, no, I know, that humans are MORE accurate than bots will ever be in the BZ2 community."

IF the programmers wanted to, they could. It is all based on mathematical equations using velocity and aceleration. Since the AI has access to this information, it can calcuate EXACTLY where the ship will be next. IF they wanted, it even has access to what direction keys you press before your ship moves.

A human has no chance of calculation this information on the fly.

Unless of course you can prove otherwise? Can you do several quadratic equations, differentiate, integrate, work out the exact numerical values of a ships current velocity and aceleration? This is what you owuld need to do to aim aswell as the computer.

"Look people you can argue and fart in your pants all you want...but I don't have to prove my side.  So far as we have seen, there has been no AI made that can even come close to matching the skills of a vet in a dogfight."

That is a simply because the programmers have a lil thing called..... "COMMON SENSE"

Of course they will not program an AI that will not be beatable. No-one would play the game and it serves no purpose.

"You are losing this argument because I need no proof.  My proof is the stinky 1.2 and 1.3 AI.  
YOU have to convince me that it is possible to make AI 'never miss' and do other insane things of that nature."

I'm afraid they are not losing the arguement. You are just making illogical statements that ignore the simple fact that the computer has access to every minute bit of detail, with perfect precision. It is also able to make calcuations based on this information that would take humans hours to do.

Computers are not slowed down by biomechanical reactions like humans are. I once did a small survey of around 200 gamers, using a program to test there reaction speeds. the hardcore gamers averaged around 0.15-2.5 roughly with there preferred hand, and 0.-0.3 with there non-preferred hand.

It is possible for the AI to react before the information is even displayed on the screen for you, since the AI is part of the program.

"Until you do this I don't want to hear any more retarted arguments about how AIs can be better than humans.  Because they can't."

Speaking of retarded statements...

"Enemy base surrounded by guntowers?  Human = Take Out Power
Bot = Get Shot"

The programmers can make the AI take out power aswell... Tell my why they can't?

After all, they wrote the program, they can write it to do whatever they want.

"Several Titans coming at you?  Human = Take Cover
Bot = Attack and Get killed"

The AI could be programmed to control a mtr bike group, so they they shoot at the titans while staying out of range, they would never get hit.

Its as simple as the programmers putting in line, that once the mortars get within a certain distances, they back-off before shooting again.

A human could never do it with such precision.

"Being attacked by three scouts (2 with minigun and 1 with chaingun)?  Human = Kill Chaingun scout first
Bot = Kill anything first."

The can get access to what weapons ships have. IF the programmers wanted, they could even have the AI know what weapons are loaded BEFORE you see them fire.

So the AI to target the chaingun scout before the human even knew one had chains.

The AI could even have access to how much ammo a scout had, so if one scout didn't have enough ammo to kill them, but another did, it owuld target the low ammo scout.

If a human had only just seen the scouts, they wouldn't know one was low on ammo until it ran out...

Think about it.

"You guys keep claiming that the AI can be soooo good.  We'll if it's true then lets see it.  I'm waiting.  Show it to me.  Take it OFF!   "

We don't have access to the source code, do we? We don't right the AI, we use what is written for us. If the programmers wanted to they could, but it is useless to a game to have perfect AI, so why would they?

"But until then please stop posting statements which have no logical proof to back them up."

Actually, everything I wrote in here can be backed up with basic programming knowledge.

So, go learn some gaming programming, then comeback and try to argue. lol

"This is not Unreal Tournament.  This is not Quake 3.  This is BattleZone 2."

Agreed, but are they all not programs?

As to your Matrix quote. HE was better because he WASN'T bound by the rules of the program.

We, however, ARE bound by the rules of the program.

If he was in battlezone2, he would be able to back a Assault tank hover your base down.

Can you? NO. Why? Because you ARE bound the by physic engines rules that define movement in the game.

Your arguements sound like that of a 10yr gamer with little knowledge on how games work.


*EDIT*

Like said before, even with BZ2's AI thatwas coded crap, go play ZTV by yourself. I beat it kicks your butt repeatably.

Thats already been said a month or so ago Spawn.

That would be try PF, if it wasn't made up higher in the Tech tree. What if you needed training to get it? Then you would have to choose between getting site cam first or blast first. Thats a decent compromise I believe. Don't 4get, whlie they have sitecam, they can't have vir themselves, so they are easier targets. Maybe have the lockon time for shads vs VIR ships half the speed. That way, one vs one, shads/VIR will beat shads/Cam

Huscar, WHAT are you rambling about?

@PF. Yes, I can see that happening, but remember site cam will use ammo, so its not like he could ran around with VIR on all day. Plus it would be harder to do the flicking on/off like we do with VIR, since you have to wait for the lock. Maybe having it higher in the tech tree help in this case.

I like JWK's idea of increased radar sig aswell, even if it is only a minor issue. Seems like a nice touch.

Hmm... I can see DF, JWK and PF's point of view, but in my opinion you are going the wrong way. Maybe pay a little attention to some of the ideas that have been posted here.

Ok, first, this is what you are trying to do.

-) Original weapon has very small good points, large bad points. You are reducing the bad points. Good, but that still leaves you with very little reason to USE the item.

How about you increase the good points and leave it consuming ammo?

1) Already fixed I think, don't allow wireframe to be selected via the console like 1.2.
2) Make it reveal VIR units. Not just that, since you can now SEE the VIR units, make there weapons work like normal.
3) Since you can now SEE throught terrain aswell, allow turrets to be targeted throught the terrain.

I believe this would make the weapon actually USEFUL in a game, where just making it consume no ammo will not.

My mistake, not all.

GSH:

In BZ2, the videocard is just putting textures on polys, not much else.

BZ2 *hammers* on the floating point unit of your CPU. For starters, it does all the transform & lighting ("T&L") on your CPU

Hence, although it goes use the GPU(my bad), its use of the CPU is far greater.

It is also worth a note on preformance, that if you have a AMD K6 processor, you should roughly HALF your MHz rating since the K6 line has a very poor FPU preformance.

BZ2 calculates all the graphics by the CPU, it DOES NOT use the GPU.

line up 5 soldiers in a row, then snipe them. You will find out.

Zero, it depend which way the tank is rotated... eg, com and eye would be inline at front and back facings...

With the terraforming, there is a bit more details then released apart from just what was mentioned above, but I want to keep hold of that info just for now.

The big problem with the my method of terraforming, was that you couldn't use it in MP because, if someone entered the game, The resync would reset the terrain. It could be used if you locked the game after everyone entered (not acceptable to me...), or just use it for Single Player, like I am.

I would like to see the ability for an odf setting to make the turret "floatable", so it deploys ontop of water...

Same problem in 1.2