Battlezone Universe

I have a good question;

What is a reliable acceptable proceedure for editting/testing MPI maps in the current map editor?

What specifically do you need to know?
Pathpoints can be found on default maps, or by looking in the dll source.
Map editor works like 1.2 one just need to save the map then distribute it somehow.  Testing would go the same way as strat maps but going through every aip and making sure the AI doesn't run into any problems with building a base and units traveling around.

make a shotcut to bz2edit.exe and add the /edit mapname to it?

When I load an MPI map in 1.3 pb2 editor it shows up with no objects.

I have been told one has to ---pretend--- the MPI map is Instant Action before it can be editting and tested in 1.3 PB2.

Now I am asking what is a proper proceedure for doing this.

Because of the DLL, right?

The objects wont pop up in the editor becuase the DLL isn't active, right?
OM, am I correct?

Edit and save in bz2edit.exe, load and test in bzone.exe. Seriously, what's so hard about this?

-- GSH

Quote from: GSH on March 07, 2006, 08:20:46 PM
Edit and save in bz2edit.exe, load and test in bzone.exe. Seriously, what's so hard about this?

-- GSH

does not work. You can not take it back to the editor after the first edit without losing all objects

bz2edit.exe  prevents loading any MPI maps with objects.

Besides This was a primary issue before.

Why should I start up one version of BZ2 just to edit a map, save it shut it down and startup another version of BZ2 just to test the map.

Multiplayer is disabled in BZ2edit.exe so why not set it up so one can edit and test all in the same program?

Man O man, you guys took several years to mess with this thing and the best of improvements completely ignored anything the public felt was important.

Fancy mod addons ---the test group--- felt was important and menaing to others if the game is not fun to play.

A map editor whose only improvements are shell enhancements borrowed from the fans.

Vehicle physics adjustments you refused to properly explain.

Improper documentation ,and to quote somebody,  I was asking for too much on a silver platter.

COME ON NOW.

You make us wait a long time for this and the best you come up with is little or no different then PB1????

You listen to me real good this time. I am willing to endorse this patch and even help bring others into the 1.3 realm, but calling this stuff I am asking for none of my business is just getting you guys in more trouble with the public.

The end result will be obvious.

Do you want a prime example of what I am saying??

Go read some of the topics at BZ2maps.com. If you don't turn this around with completely open reference material more of this deep set resentment will grow.

Then you will be right back where you started, the only fans playing 1.3 will be the testers and modders.

Quotebz2edit.exe  prevents loading any MPI maps with objects.

I loaded mpibridges.bzn in bz2edit.exe last night, and all the preplaced objects (pools, scrap, bridges) were there.

-- GSH

I recall it working, how are you doing it DS?

From his explanation, he is including /nobodyhome on the edit line and not paying attention to the fact he is.

That or he doesn't realize that things like the recyclers, preplaced buildings are placed by the DLL. Every mpi map needs to have those items REMOVED when saving. Been that way since MPI was introduced in 1.2. The community's written a lot of documentation over the years, and until Mr "I Want A Do What I Mean Button" showed up looking for nits to pick, everybody was happy with the extra docs 1.3 had vs 1.2 did.

-- GSH

I spend hours each night bopping into and out of maps testing, adjusting, and testing some more.  Takes less than a  minute to bop in and see if something's set up right.

I use up to three shortcuts, one pointing to the map in the editor,  one pointing to the engine, and one pointing to the editor without DLL support.  I also compile my DLL's to the SP format and copy the file when needed in the editor, which is rarely.

Working in MPI is a bit different but the basics are the same.  You spend a lot more time in the Shift-F9 path editor but the only real trick is to run the map on one shortcut, edit on the other.  While I can understand someone wanting to just grab the object and move it instead of the path point that spawned it, it's not going to happen.

-Av-

You could just drop the map into addon/missions/instant and run it from the editor there.

I think what he's saying (I've had this problem with trying to run G66 in the editor in PB2) is that scripted objects do not run in MPI (they do in instant and single). Maybe there will be pools, rocks, and trees, and a few pre-placed gun towers. But, no objects that aren't pre-placed and spawned via dll.

I belive a fix to this would to have shell menus for the missions that require them. Otherwise, missions will always load at their default settings (if they don't have one, well, nothing loads like in G66).

One more thing: I dislike being forced to load instant action maps by their default difficulty levels in b2edit.exe instead of having some way to customize difficulty.

You can modify ivars and svars via the commandlike.  Look in the changelog.

Quote from: Total Oblivion Omnis on March 08, 2006, 03:13:46 PM
I think what he's saying (I've had this problem with trying to run G66 in the editor in PB2) is that scripted objects do not run in MPI (they do in instant and single). Maybe there will be pools, rocks, and trees, and a few pre-placed gun towers. But, no objects that aren't pre-placed and spawned via dll.

Scripted objects?  If you are referring to the dll missions (not scripted, especially not in mpi), those things are created by dll and you do *NOT* want them placed when you save the map, ergo they should not be in the thing, else you would have to delete them every time you wanted to save.

If the map editor is going to be seperate from the game, then multiplayer maps of any kind should be testable in it.

Many other games before and after BZ2 do this in some fashion or another, I see no reason it can not be done in BZ2.

You can leave everything in bzone.exe except for the networking, then call that Bz2edit.exe

The menu comes up and you can't join a game online, but you can open a map the same as if you were online.

How hard could it be to do that? Why has it taken until now to get it accross to you?

The networking *is* what creates players in MPI. Remove it, remove all players.

Stop insisting everything be 1.2 all over again.  Why has it taken until now to get it accross to you?

-- GSH

You know exactly what I am talking about.

Currently in 1.3 PB2 you can switch to the lan only server option and bring up a multiplayer map to test whether you have

a LAN setup or not.

Also if I disconnect my broadband cable connection from the computer, I can still bring up a mulitplayer map to test.

I just don't have other games available to join.

If BZ2edit.exe is as complete as bzone.exe with the exception of being able to go online for any reason then a complete multiplayer menu will be available for testing maps.

This way I could go from the editor to the shell to the multiplayer menu test the map esc to the shell again instant load the editor do more tweaking without ever leaving the BZ2 software environment.

If this is like BZ2 1.2  so what. Why should I waste time completely shutting down BZ2edit.exe and start up Bzone.exe just to test a multiplayer map just because YOU think it is the way things should be done?


This will always be a seriously inconvenient way to edit maps.

Get a load of UT2004. I can;
create models
edit terrain
edit sky
edit pathing
edit scripts
test the map and all of it's new stuff

With out ever leaving the editor environment.

All I am asking of BZ2 1.3 is to be able to edit and test a multiplayer map with out leaving the Shell environment.

You can prevent someone who uses the editor from going online all you want.

Pretty demanding words for someone who's trying to write blank checks on other's time. Go re-read Avatar's posts for how he switches between editing and testing really quickly.

Still don't like it? Deal with it. Or, save us from your presence.

-- GSH

I've used the 1.3 editor pretty extensively for making campaign, IA, MPI ,strat and DM maps and I've never had a single problem, ever, not with map creation or with testing .

Honestly, only the extremely feeble minded could fail to master the complexities of 2 different shortcuts - one to edit, one to test, it's hardly bloody rocket science is it ?

Last I checked, to properly edit and test maps you needed two shortcuts ANYWAY, now they just have to point at two different exe files. How difficult is that?

And BZ2 is NOT UT2004. Stop demanding that BZ2 BECOME UT2004.

Have you tried running two shortcuts?

Try this in windows XP, start BZ2 shortcut then window the shell and minimize.

Now click on the editor shortcut.

Guess what?, the BZ2 screen comes back and you don't get the editor.

Wanna tell me a work around for that? nah I didn't think so,,,,,

Lizard you stupid *Ammo*, go shove it up your ass, damn fool, you never have anything real to say.

I give up on you guys. I don't care anymore.

The biggest reason this patch is failing publicly is because of this kind of resistence to other ideas.

I will never recommend this patch in any way shape or form until you learn to be more open minded without your *Ammo*ed  up smartaassed remarks and discredittiing attitude way of avoiding an honest answer.

Avatar and Overmind  are the exception here learn form them for a change.

Where in Avatar's "multiple shortcuts" post above did he say anything about hitting "minimize"?

You've painted yourself into a corner, and gotten frustrated that your ignorance has been exposed. The honorable thing to do would be to just drop the issue. But, you've decided to go away mad. Your choice, but a poor one.

-- GSH

Quote from: deadscion on March 08, 2006, 07:06:22 PM

...

Quote from: deadscion on March 08, 2006, 07:06:22 PM
I give up on you guys. I don't care anymore.

Yay! Leave! Tired of your flaming.

and Lizard is cool.

Edit: fixed quote

*stabs deadscion*

Quote from: deadscion on March 08, 2006, 05:02:49 AM

Quote from: GSH on March 07, 2006, 08:20:46 PM
Edit and save in bz2edit.exe, load and test in bzone.exe. Seriously, what's so hard about this?

-- GSH

does not work. You can not take it back to the editor after the first edit without losing all objects

bz2edit.exe  prevents loading any MPI maps with objects.

Besides This was a primary issue before.

Why should I start up one version of BZ2 just to edit a map, save it shut it down and startup another version of BZ2 just to test the map.

Multiplayer is disabled in BZ2edit.exe so why not set it up so one can edit and test all in the same program?

Man O man, you guys took several years to mess with this thing and the best of improvements completely ignored anything the public felt was important.

Fancy mod addons ---the test group--- felt was important and menaing to others if the game is not fun to play.

A map editor whose only improvements are shell enhancements borrowed from the fans.

Vehicle physics adjustments you refused to properly explain.

Improper documentation ,and to quote somebody,  I was asking for too much on a silver platter.

COME ON NOW.

You make us wait a long time for this and the best you come up with is little or no different then PB1????

You listen to me real good this time. I am willing to endorse this patch and even help bring others into the 1.3 realm, but calling this stuff I am asking for none of my business is just getting you guys in more trouble with the public.

The end result will be obvious.

Do you want a prime example of what I am saying??

Go read some of the topics at BZ2maps.com. If you don't turn this around with completely open reference material more of this deep set resentment will grow.

Then you will be right back where you started, the only fans playing 1.3 will be the testers and modders.

oh get a life  :roll:

Oh sean why? why? did you have to quote ALL of that and only post 15 characters?

Could of sqorn it was 12  :|

I have a question.

Is the editor intended solely for editing maps and testing them for usage. Can the editor be used to run a map like bzII would?

I feel that perhaps I should make a suggestion.

I suggest shell menu options for bz2edit.exe, so that maps can be played more like they can be in bzone.exe (or at least the option for using shell, so it wouldn't interfere with modding). Of course, right now I could do that with using ivar/svar command lines, but, that's tedious work. Perhaps what I'm suggesting would be the ability to set those without manually typing them in, like you would do in bzone.exe.

TOO - have you played w/ PB2's bz2edit.exe? Most would say it's a big improvement over pb1.

-- GSH

OK SO EVRY ONE SHUTS THE FU*K UP FREAKEN READ THIS PIC NOOB

(http://www.spike.http.co.il/uploads/up/A001264.jpg)

wooow there horsey....

Quote from: General BlackDragon on March 08, 2006, 09:02:51 PM
wooow there horsey....

well he is being a big loser for insulting the whole community for no freakin reason

and when you decend to his level, you become no better then him...

Sean is almost as annoying as squirrel.

Quote from: General BlackDragon on March 08, 2006, 09:26:59 PM
and when you decend to his level, you become no better then him...

well no im only talking about him not the whole forum

Quote from: deadscion on March 08, 2006, 07:06:22 PM
Have you tried running two shortcuts?

Try this in windows XP, start BZ2 shortcut then window the shell and minimize.

Now click on the editor shortcut.

Guess what?, the BZ2 screen comes back and you don't get the editor.

Wanna tell me a work around for that? nah I didn't think so,,,,,

Lizard you stupid *Ammo*, go shove it up your ass, damn fool, you never have anything real to say.

I give up on you guys. I don't care anymore.

The biggest reason this patch is failing publicly is because of this kind of resistence to other ideas.

I will never recommend this patch in any way shape or form until you learn to be more open minded without your *Ammo*ed  up smartaassed remarks and discredittiing attitude way of avoiding an honest answer.

Avatar and Overmind  are the exception here learn form them for a change.

someone pick up DS's toys he seems to have thrown them all out of his pram ....... AGAIN !!!


you wanna lighten up a little DS all this stress is bad for you, just keep repeating to yourself , it's only a game, it's only a game .



you know if you didn't carry on like a rabid loon people might actually take notice of you for a change ;) .

I don't want to see this devolve into an "I hate _____" match...

DS has a legitimate concern and point of view despite coming across as angry and demanding.  Unfortunately what other games do, no matter how good an example of what he wants, is irrelevant.  I'm sure they were built from the ground up with that editing capability in mind, something that isn't going to happen in BZ2.

So, point given, answer given, time to move on.

I HATE locking threads, but don't see this going anywhere but down...

-Av-

OK, well, after several PM's about this it seems it still isn't clear...

For most map types this is all you need to do.  I don't use MM5 so I can't help there, but it seems straightforward enough...

1.  Create your terrain any way you like, from modifying an existing terrain to starting a map in the editor with just a TRN file and /nobodyhome on the end of the command line:
"C:\Program Files\BZ\Battlezone II\bz2edit.exe" mymap.trn /nobodyhome

2. Edit your map in the editor, placing objects and using the Shift-F9 screen to set paths and path points.  Don't forget to set the DLL to the appropriate DLL in the PATH section.  Save your map.

At this point to re-enter and edit the map you need to change the shortcut to point to the BZN, and remove the /nobodyhome entry.
"C:\Program Files\BZ\Battlezone II\bz2edit.exe" mymap.bzn

3. To test, start your map in the engine.
"C:\Program Files\BZ\Battlezone II\bzone.exe" mymap.bzn
Check to see if everything's there, or whatever else you need to do.  I'm generally in there watching 'beaconed' enemies as they run their routes, to see if they get stuck.

***

Now, DS seems mostly about MPI maps, and my own experience making MPI maps lately is minimal.  I just tried setting up a shortcut for an MPI test map and only my Recy showed up.  It also complained that it couldn't find the AIP file. There are SO many options now for an MPI that apparently you have to start the map through the shell.

Loading my map directly from a shortcut took 13 seconds.

Using my Battlezone shortcut:
"C:\Program Files\BZ\Battlezone II\bzone.exe" -nointro -lanonly
It took 27 seconds to get into my MPI map through the shell. All appropriate objects spawned and did their thing.

Personally I don't think 14 seconds is enough of an extra delay to warrant concern, but that's me.  To DS it may seem like a lifetime.

I think if anything more needs to be said on this it'd be more proper to continue it in Maps and Mods.  Personally I'd like to hear Natty's methods of making/testing MPI maps, as to me he's the MPI King.

As I said, I hate locking threads, so for now I'm leaving this one open.  If it ends up in the gutter (where it was headed) then I guess my initial impression was right and it'll have to be locked again...

-Av-

It's even faster if you put "/host 0" on the testing shortcut commandline. Drops you straight on the hosting screen. Been that way since 1.0 (does anyone ever read the docs I write? 6 years later, this should be common knowledge.)

-- GSH

I do, but I sure wish I had let that one sink in.  OMG, I could have saved soooo many clicks and so much time if I had used it! [kicks self]   

Sigh, boy, the price of ignorance sure is high...

Quote from: Red Devil on March 09, 2006, 03:19:53 PM
I do, but I sure wish I had let that one sink in.  OMG, I could have saved soooo many clicks and so much time if I had used it! [kicks self]   

Sigh, boy, the price of ignorance sure is high...

lol :-P