Battlezone Universe

Battlezone Universe => Overdrive Terminal => Topic started by: RABBITPOLICE on October 18, 2009, 05:50:02 PM

Title: FPS and RTS
Post by: RABBITPOLICE on October 18, 2009, 05:50:02 PM
This is what it says on wikipedia about why people did not like bz2

But cant you guys fix this sort of problem by putting instant satellite view button (It will appeal to the more rts players)
(read below to understand what I mean)

Just an idea


Pandemic Studios continued and expanded the concept of a RTS and FPS hybrid where the player drove the vehicle in the game, but using a mixture of the reticle and the space bar, select units and buildings to build and order units around the battle field. The F keys at the top of the keyboard were used to create groups of units for easy selection of the units presently on the battlefield when they were not in the range of the player to select via the spacebar.

The common consensus is that Battlezone II was not very popular as it tried to blend two groups together and both styles of players having trouble adapting to the other style they were unused to. Programmer Ken Miller said, "BZ2 was meant to do that at first [appeal to both genres], but headed in the opposite direction. The problem is that mixedgenre games only attract players that like BOTH genres (the intersection) as opposed to EITHER genre (the union). It mainly comes down to learning curve. Action/shooter gamers can pick up just about any action/shooter game on the market and play it in short order, as almost all of them use the same control scheme and feature similar gameplay conventions. Similarly, strategy gamers can pick up just about any strategy game on the market and play it, although strategy games tend to differ from each other more than action games. Confronting an action/shooter gamer with strategy or a strategy player with action tends to force them outside their genre "comfort zone" and requires a steeper learning curve. My pithiest, if somewhat unfair, summation is this: 'FPS players don't want to think; RTS players don't want to die.'"[2]
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: Warfreak on October 18, 2009, 05:57:43 PM
Wouldn't this technically be OT material?
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: RABBITPOLICE on October 18, 2009, 05:59:04 PM
???
not sure what that means I just said it because it may attract more players if
they found out you dont need to use the first person mode
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: VSMIT on October 18, 2009, 07:56:24 PM
Quote from: Warfreak on October 18, 2009, 05:57:43 PM
Wouldn't this technically be OT material?
Yes.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: technoid on October 18, 2009, 09:56:54 PM
Quote from: RABBITPOLICE on October 18, 2009, 05:50:02 PMBut cant you guys fix this sort of problem by putting instant satellite view button (It will appeal to the more rts players)

Hard to say if it's possible, such as in a mod, but something like this has been discussed before (even recently in private beta  :wink: ) Imho, BZII was designed to be firstly as FPS (a vehicle simulator) and secondarily as RTS.  Thus the acronym FPRTS.  I've never seen any acronyms (or games) where RTS comes first before FPS (or are there?). 

Keep in mind BZII was made prior to all these satellite-dependent technology we have now in real life.  It just wasn't in the mainstream consciousness yet, even if it was on the horizon.  If these cellular iPhones, GPSes, Crackberries, et al, with their multi-touch capabilities were already here in 1998/1999, then in hindsight, Pandemic could've borrowed similarities into the game.  BZII pilots and vehicles could have had more availability in satellite view withough standing inside a building, and apart from the two radar views already built in.    Imagine having a BZII pilot switch to a satellite view HUD inside his helmet.  Or maybe a handheld  coming as a special crate from the armory and since it only occupies one pilot weapon slot, then you can't have it if you need another pilot weap.  Whatever the case, I think it just wasn't part of the game design.  It could have made things too easy, who knows.  Standing inside a bunker/overseer balances the game between having the power to travel/command via satellite view navigation and being vulnerable to the opponent's firepower at the same time.   

And also vulnerable to beasts, since as we all know Ice Rhinos and Jaks have the cunning pseudo-ability to partly meld into a building structure to get a taste of you. Sometimes it makes me LOL when I'm in satellite view and suddenly the view becomes red and my pilot is screaming.   :-D
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: AHadley on October 19, 2009, 01:08:11 AM
It's possible in singleplayer, but not in multiplayer as it would cause problems with MW.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: TheJamsh on October 19, 2009, 06:42:18 AM
Its probably easy in both modes actually... but thugs would be bored out of their mind.

You could use a custom .dll to FORCE the sattelite mode on constantly, and just remove the 'logout' button from that particular satellite shell. Easy as pie. This was mentioned not too long ago somewhere else.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: Axeminister on October 19, 2009, 08:35:06 AM
This is what the Command vehicle is for in the Commando and Greenheart variants. You can bring up satellite view whether you are a thug or commander by getting in the command vehicle.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: RABBITPOLICE on October 19, 2009, 04:15:22 PM
I know but new players would not know unless we stated that
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: VSMIT on October 19, 2009, 04:48:34 PM
Quote from: RABBITPOLICE on October 19, 2009, 04:15:22 PM
I know but new players would not know unless we stated that
Umm...  It's called the command vehicle.  It looks like a scav.  It has no weapons.  What else would it be used for?
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: CivBase on October 19, 2009, 05:10:14 PM
Frankly, the FPS/RTS blend is what I like most about this game.

Besides, if you don't want RTS you can play as a pilot.  If you don't want FPS, you can just stay in the relay bunker the whole time.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: RABBITPOLICE on October 19, 2009, 05:24:02 PM
VSMT IM NOT AN IDIOT

I like that part 2 im just saying we can do this to attract newer players
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: CivBase on October 19, 2009, 05:30:49 PM
Quote from: RABBITPOLICE
VSMT IM NOT AN IDIOT

I like that part 2 im just saying we can do this to attract newer players
lol, I'm afraid nothing short of a professionally-made BZ3 can do that at this point.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: Steeveeo on October 19, 2009, 05:41:42 PM
Quote from: technoid on October 18, 2009, 09:56:54 PMI've never seen any acronyms (or games) where RTS comes first before FPS (or are there?). 

I know of one game that fits: Dungeon Keeper

Mainly RTS, but you could go First Person using the Possession Spell and fight from there.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: technoid on October 19, 2009, 05:43:39 PM
Well, a lot of new players still do arrive (at least here at the forum).  But most of the time, they say they were ex-players who want to dust off their old BZII Cd due to renewed interest.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: RABBITPOLICE on October 19, 2009, 06:04:28 PM
well I wish new player would come but the only way to do that is some form of advertising
like making some sort of show like red vs blue (I only watched some episodes)
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: VSMIT on October 19, 2009, 09:31:26 PM
Quote from: RABBITPOLICE on October 19, 2009, 05:24:02 PM
VSMT IM NOT AN IDIOT
Then show me something to make me think differently.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: Arbystrider on October 20, 2009, 03:35:43 AM
Quote from: RABBITPOLICE on October 19, 2009, 06:04:28 PM
well I wish new player would come but the only way to do that is some form of advertising
like making some sort of show like red vs blue (I only watched some episodes)

Sabrebattletank has a machinima series. I wanted to but --

Anywhoo, I got a couple of friends here who want to play it I just have to wait 'till I can access their PC's to install.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: TheJamsh on October 20, 2009, 04:09:36 AM
Quote from: VSMIT on October 19, 2009, 09:31:26 PM
Then show me something to make me think differently.

VSMIT thinks along the lines of the Nazi regime, "Guilty until proven innocent". :lol:
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: VSMIT on October 20, 2009, 06:43:14 AM
Quote from: TheJamsh on October 20, 2009, 04:09:36 AM
VSMIT thinks along the lines of the Nazi regime, "Guilty until proven innocent". :lol:
You have to when you're dealing with people on the internet.

Edit: And actually, I give people the benefit of the doubt initially.  But Rabbitpolice quickly showed me that I shouldn't.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: sabrebattletank on October 20, 2009, 01:58:14 PM
Quote from: Arbystrider on October 20, 2009, 03:35:43 AM
Sabrebattletank has a machinima series. I wanted to but --

Anywhoo, I got a couple of friends here who want to play it I just have to wait 'till I can access their PC's to install.

I do?

Who *Ammo*in' knew.

Is it popular?
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: Mr X on October 20, 2009, 02:56:46 PM
Quote from: RABBITPOLICE on October 19, 2009, 05:24:02 PM
VSMT IM NOT AN IDIOT

And yet you manage to miss-spell his name...

And the whole charm of BZ2 is the blend of FPS and RTS, there are plenty of better FPS games and plenty of better RTS games. If we chopped out one style we'd just about eliminate the whole point of playing.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: Clavin12 on October 21, 2009, 01:43:19 PM
I'm afraid I'm more of an rts guy but the fps is definitely necessary. Without it everything gets boring very fast.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: AHadley on October 21, 2009, 02:00:17 PM
I'm an FPS guy. HL, Q2... classic :P Got to have a storyline though.

RTS is good too, but not as exciting. Yet somehow, BZ2 is amongst the best I have ever played.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: Arbystrider on October 22, 2009, 11:56:26 PM
Loads of people in my school are RTS people, they'd do anything for a copy of Warcraft III: TFT even if it requires doing it illegally. No seriously.

I'm an FPS guy capable of RTS. FPS gets frustrating on Conker. RTS gets boring on Warcraft (I played at my friend's place he has the original).
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: Crash on October 28, 2009, 02:39:03 PM
With years of experience in gaming...

Battlezone can't be merged into one style of game, and that's why it's so unique. New players won't like it because it's very hard to play, so it won't be the most popular game ever. It needs some fanaticism, to sit down, and play, learn tactics, strategies, and tricks, ranges, and to learn face to face combat.
You even have to learn the physics of the game. I remember when the first time I showed BZ2 to my cousin, he was angry, he played it like someone who's first playing an FPS, and he found it strange that vehicles slide after you release the forward button, not stop immediately like in the FPS games. He gave it up there.

I began to play the game in '99, played the demo at least 200 times, and fell in love in first sight with the game. I was about 9 when began to play the full version... Short after it came out in '99 October if I remember well. When I got exposure to the Internet later, well fist time it was an awful experience... The game has lot more memory usage in mp than in sp.
About a year later I've tried with a faster machine... That was the best experience I've ever had. The players were friendly and I think we played free for all on Ground 4, and last more than 3 hours... Before the day of my first test of the school leaving exam :D.

Oh I just gone away from the topic.

All I have to say that Battlezone 2 is the 'hardest to master' game for me, and that's why I like it :)
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: RABBITPOLICE on November 07, 2009, 04:51:41 PM
I like the idea that bz2 is two formats but thats what makes it unpopular thats
why I suggested this
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: TheJamsh on November 07, 2009, 05:29:47 PM
Its also what makes it Battlezone II...

If you want to make a mod that forces one or the other, thats up to you... but that would stay a mod.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: Shadow Knight on November 07, 2009, 11:27:03 PM
Quote from: RABBITPOLICE on November 07, 2009, 04:51:41 PM
I like the idea that bz2 is two formats but thats what makes it popular
Fixed that for you. Most people play battlezone II BECAUSE it's a blend.
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: mrtwosheds on November 08, 2009, 12:18:56 AM
But we will ridicule anyone who trys to play mp strat from the bunker! :-D
Title: Re: FPS and RTS
Post by: Dianoga4 on November 09, 2009, 12:27:07 AM
The game that my mod is based off of is a mix of RTS and FPS and I would say alot of the gameplay relates to how BZ2 is played except that the game my mod is based off of is a MMO with a persistent world. You build bases with defenses, rovers to attack and defend, you mine stuff out of the ground to build more stuff and make money, etc. You play as a FPS when you are attacking other people's bases but when you are being attacked in your own base, you can go into your "Nerve Center" as they call it which is basically the same idea as a recycler and control your units from a satellite view. You can still go out and shoot at people if you want but when you are in your own base, it's easier to be looking down from above. I've never played much in satellite view in BZ2 mostly because I like being in the action but I do like having the option. I'm not much of a RTS player but sometimes it can help in situations if you can see from above.