Thank you for locking my post, guess that there will be at the very least, no discussion or any hope for any change.
Can't believe that you won't let any of the many real vets that make up this community at least give an opinion.
If any of you out there want to continue my origonal post here is the link http://www.bac-clan.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001422
Flying is not a 'vet' tactic, it was a bug, pure and simple, that some people exploited. I never flew yet I did not seem to have a problem winning.
Do not gripe abour bugs getting fixed, that is the purpose of a patch. Patch's fix bugs, flying was a bug, how is this difficult to understand?
I've made several posts asking that there be a thread where the 'vets' can discuss the loss of hovering. I don't think it wise to just lock down any mention of it without allowing the 'vets' to vent. I'm absolutely one hundred percent POSITIVE that nothing new will be said, but they should have their say.
That being said let me assure everyone that they won't be able to come up with anything that hasn't already been beaten to death over the course of the private Beta. There are plenty of 'vets' on the beta team and they've already voiced every possible argument for keeping 'hovering'. (don't get started on terms, that's what the 'vets' are calling it)
Plain and simply 'hovering' is a mistake in math. It's bad code. It's not meant to be, never was meant to be, and regardless of how fun it is or how much you feel you need it to dominate the game it's gone.
Gone.
Will not be back.
Cannot, won't, will not, is impossible to be recoded into the game.
Gone.
Got it? Vent all you want, take it to other boards, get good and p!ssed off about it's loss.
Then deal with it and learn to play the way the game is, or stick with 1.2 and all the silly AVs and such. Those are your choices.
Pick one and get on with it.
-Av-
Well said Av.
Thanks, I tried to be simple and direct...
Everyone knows this is going to be one of the most touchy points of the 1.3 patch. Everyone needs to be calm and reasonable as the loss hits the 'vets' or the boards will erupt in stupidity and chaos.
-Av-
You mean it hasn't?
I used to moan about flying, but I've changed my mind recently, not because I didn't enjoy flying, but because the game goes on longer, and is less easily dominated by chain scouts. I suppose I miss the fun of winning games after 10 minutes with chain scout hovering, but things *are* better how they are in 1.3, what with the strategy behind having to tech up against the enemy and such.
"this is going to be one of the most touchy points of the 1.3 patch"
That is exactly correct..and exactly why, *IF* 1.3 is dropped like a dead fish by the "vet MP" playing part of the community, GSH has no one but himself to look to for the reason..he obviously knows why we feel the way we do, and obviously chooses to ignore it.
I was one of those who just got sick of trying "reason" to explain WHY we LIKE what we like about 1.2.
Now, that patch is gonna sink or swim on its own merits or faults.
It will not be the fault of any of us who tried to give input long long ago.
I never considered chain scouts hovering to be a bug, I've considered the AI turrets that can't shoot them down to be the bug. Fix that, not the hover. Everybody will be happy! Just look at ZST, hover is no longer an issue there.
Taking hover from a seasoned vet is like taking his arm or a leg off, you leave him crippled on the battlefield, you take away his freedom. I won't go through that, and there are bunch of players that won't either.
You spend 70-80% of your BZ2 time in a scout. Changing the physics of the scout so much is CHANGING THE WHOLE GAMING EXPERIENCE, and I know that each time I get into one of those 1.3 scouts I just get frustrated by the thought of what's missing and how abnormal it behaves.
I don't get it why all those who don't like hover are fighting to get rid of it. There are many ways to keep the hover in the game, like I mentioned in my earlier post, without everybody whining about their bases being torned to pieces by it.
YES, I hate when my base gets hover raped by chain scouts, but NO I want to keep the hover in. Make rattlers shoot straight up, problem solved.
Hovering/Flying or whatever you want to call it might be a bug, considering how the game was originally meant to be played. Well, the game has been played, for 4 years now, and I find it weird that people at Pandemic, that probably never play this game or even thought about it for the past 4 years have their say about how the game should evolve.
Lets put it this way:
Back in January of 2002 the last post on this page(assuming default options for # of posts per page and stuff) was made. People have still argued off and on since then, despite knowing what the outcome would be.
http://www.bzuniverse.com/~bz2cp/forum/forum.php?t=topic&fn=1&tn=1130&page=3
I might have been able to dig a little deeper to find a slightly older statement of it, but I didn't. I figure over two years was old enough, and two years is plenty of time to prepare yourselves.
So get over it :p
70% to 80% of time in a scout? Give me a tank wish sp-stab to plasma to blast, with chain or laser, mdm morters, and a M-Curtain and I am happy, Scouts are used to feed that kind of tank :P
I have hosted many FE strat games for the past year or so (about 20 a week). If I ask people not to hover in the enemy base area, they don't hover in the enemy base area. This does not take a heavy handed approach, people do not object to being asked not to hover in the enemy base area. This is not some crazy idea on my part, mostly everyone is happy with it. And Rec Def helps too. Just as a point of interest, allowing hovering in the enemy base area makes a surprisingly small difference. But that was in FE with Rec Def, Spikes, proper turrets. People know what they want are are willing to go along with what makes sense.
If the game had been released in it's current state (which it should have been) this wouldn't even be an issue. All you whining "I want my hover back" cry babies can go suck your pacifiers in 1.2 :evilish: .
I dont think you can call yourself a vet if you are so dependent on hovering.
Bz2 is a strategy game, use your head not your hover.
Of course, 1.2 and its physics is a few years old, and 1.3 and its physics is barely a few hours old. Youth is characterised by arrogance. :D
You guys are forgetting one crucial thing about BZ2, it is a strategy game yes, but it is ALSO a ACTION game...action strategy.
It's not just the hovering part. When I'm in that scout the game is boring, you cannot even run from newbies because that scout is just slow and not as agile, feels like you're in a coffin.
And also, if you run towards a hill you bounce off it, lose speed and the newbies kill you. You cannot put your nose down like in 1.2, you don't gain any speed.
In 1.2 I can take off like a jet on a aircraft carrier, but in 1.3 it's like I'm trying to control a freaking coffin!
And also, I don't like these responds I'm getting from the members on this forums. We posted in good faith trying to comment on the 1.3 beta, and they just close the topic? Case closed? This issue won't go away simply by sticking your head in the sand.
Just call this 1.2 NOOB patch, so the newer players can play around with it until they are ready for some real games in 1.2, ZST, FE.
If they want this patch, they can have it. If I can't have my say, and dozens of others, then screw this patch...I'm not even going to think about it and I'll endorse other to do the same.
Well, If a newb can kill you, I guess your not that good of a "vet". ;)
Wrong.
There should be a noticable difference between skillful players and less experienced players. Removing the elements that allow a human player to stand out is dumbing down the game and is regrettable.
How are the scouts slow, I can zip and buzz around just as ever as I was in 1.2.
Unfortunately overmind if you can zip about as well in 1.3 as well as u can in 1.2 then your playing 1.2 wrong, ive been a 1.3 beta tester for 2 years now and 1.3 doesnt have the manouverabilty in dogfighitng that 1.2 has.
I like mid air hover dogfights , ive done them on a regular basis for 5 years now, unfortunately i feel that if bz2 had been released without the hover bug it may very well of never made it to this 5 year stage with so many players still having fun.
Take bz1 i played it enjoyed it but i dont go back to it's physics because i find them boring.
At anyone here, to go fast u dont use the left strafe key anymore, just forward and jump.
Long jumps require you to lift ur nose rather than bury it in the sand.
nose downing will make you go faster but u gota watch how low u drop it.
The tank feels the same to me. I never use the scout. I do use the morter bike if I am constrained to (I love morters, will not pilot a vehicle without em), it feels pretty similier, I just played with it and just for testing was able to get high enough I couldn't see the ground, stayed up for about 20 seconds, then started losing too much altitude.
I can't believe you are all still making such a big issue out of one minor change , grow up children .
Adapt and survive or fall by the wayside , hovering is gone and good riddance to bad bugs .
Any real "vet" wouldn't be here crying like a little child , they'd be out there practicing their skills and learning new ways to win and new tactics , I say that moaning about the loss of hovering displays a very noobish attitude towards the game .
If you think about how great the game is and how it has lasted for so long then why potentially screw it up and annoy a large portion of the people that play/support this game by removing one of the most important parts of any game.... THE FUN PART, I find the lack of manoeuvrability in the air bloody boring because there are now, no more high seed chases, flying fights, fun base attacks etc, all you got to do now is get a load of AI and roll it up to there base.
I would love to see a hover switch in the shell; this would keep all players happy and make the bz2 community grow again. I fear that this community is now going to divide and decrease in size, please do something about it instead of talking down at us, being rude and arrogant.
There is more to BZ2 than simply hovering in chain scouts , I find it very narrow minded that you can condemn this patch on such a minor issue . Things change , that's the way of the world , and in my opinion this is a very good change , if you are unwilling to give this patch a chance just because of one small issue then you don't really appreciate what this game is about .
Infact it's sad that a game that has so much strategic and tactical depth has been ruled for so long by a single tactic that was a "bug" in the first place . If you can't move on and discover what a really deep and wonderful game this is , then all I can say is that I pity you .
Quote from: CaptPicardI would love to see a hover switch in the shell; this would keep all players happy and make the bz2 community grow again.
*sigh*
This IS a problem. Let me try to explain it this way.
Remember BZ1's "Scav Traps"? Scavengers would hit a certain slope that they couldn't get up, start to back up hitting part of the slope they COULD get up and decide that the original path was OK and start up again, becoming stuck there permanently. This was a bug. A programming error. In the case of the Scav the 'extra' code that told it to grab scrap didn't get along with the basic unit code that showed it how to move around, shared by all of the units.
To fix such things sometimes means altering a basic part of the program that affects all units. It can't always be targeted to one particular unit or one type of action. A lot of the code affects a lot of different things...
An example of this is at one point in 1.3 Constructors would start up a hill with a steep slope only to keep climbing into orbit at the top. (very funny the first time you saw it, "stairway to heaven" sort of thing) This was unintentional also, the result of changing some small bit of physics code to fix something else.
Asking for a switch to restore the bug is unreasonable. The factors that caused 'hovering' were errors in basic parts of the physics code. They've been fixed and cannot be turned on or off at will, or even put back.
Asking GSH and Ken to work on developing legitimate code to make units 'hover' is also out of the question, so don't go there either. It was a bug from the beginning and regardless of how fun it was it's gone along with a TON of other bugs.
The REAL issue is whether or not 1.3 has enough in it to make it worth people living without 'hovering'. I think it does but everyone needs to give it a chance and not just blow it off because one buggy thing is gone... Again, decide what's most important to you and stick with the version that gives you that.
As to it dividing the Community...
I've got six different versions of BZ2 switching around on my HD right now without any trouble. Dividing the Community? Nope. Expanding it! Just think of it as another Mod and switch around when you want... But give it a decent run before you decide which version is best...
-Av-
Please folks, keep the comments focused on the patch and avoid the ad hominems. There's no reason to avoid this discussion, as long as folks can adhere to that ground rule.
This being possibly the single biggest whine about the 1.3 patch I think it should be aired as much as the 'vets' need it to be. Let them have their say and get it out of their system. As long as everyone remains civil it's not doing any harm.
Everyone else can avoid this thread and concentrate on the real issues...
-Av-
I just did a direct comparison to BZ2 1.2 ISDF mission 2 scout ship Versus the same mission with a scout ship in 1.3
The scout ship in 1.3 is stiff and clumsy by comparison.
If this sort of thing holds true with the rest of the ships in 1.3 then I am afraid I will have to side with the rest of the strat community on the physics issue.
I like a good hard MPI, however I require there to be some method to the madness, a way to win, some kind of goal I can reach by some means and when I reach that goal be satisfied with what I have done. yeah good game AI kicked my ass a couple times but I got him back.
There is nothing worse then a clumsy ship to frusterate, hamper and handicap what I am trying to accomplish. The first thing I do is look for a better ship to do what I need done. If I can't find any ships worth using for a high skill MPI game I will not use 1.3 for MPI.
Like I said it is still too soon for an accurate opinion of this, but so far it is too stiff and clumsy.
There is a point I must say I don't agree on Lizard. Come play with any of us so called "vets" in a game of ZST. We are having 1-2 hour games where hovering makes very little difference.
Infact, the only thing it really does is add more movement, and hence me options for a player to be creative in dogfights. Lets remember that I like options for a later point.
For over 3 years I have played bz2 now. About 6 months after I started playing I believed the same as alot of the players on this board do. That hovering was crap, and way unbalanced. But having played alot of online games in the past, I rolled with it and tried to learn how to deal with it. Now, with the small "no hover in base" observerd by most vets, I don't have a problem with, and no, it isn't because I hover the crap out of ppl's bases. ASk most ppl I play with, I use the old school strafe tactic on bases. Even though I have demostrated I can hover a spire if needed, Hovering doesn't make much of a difference in games we play, expect it gives us more "fun", which after all, is what gaming is(or should be) about.
ZST is another matter all together, we don't even need to say "no base hover". I dare anyone to come hover a real "so called vet's" base in ZST... Once you can do that, come back and tell me hovering is so unbalanced.(goes for a round the world trip waiting...)
Now, back to the "I like options" statement. Is the any real harm in adding a "Old Lame Physics/New Physics" button? The way I see it, it has the following good points:
1) An option which can "drastically" change a way a game is played is very favourable among almost all gamers I know. It gives the game greater replay value, and can keep players entertained longer. eg, being able to play as either ISDF or Scion.
2) It would enable "vets" to be able to use 1.3, an hence join 1.3 new physics games without rstarting bz2, but still be able to enjoy in the odd(or common) game with the old physics enjoyed for years by the HUNDRED or so dedicated "vets".
3) Players that wish to play with new physics can do so without even thinking about the old style(Set new as default), therefore keeping the people who dislike 1.2 hovering happy.
4) Would stop a larger community split that is on the verge of happening, which, is DEFINITELY not the best thing for a game that already has got a very small user base. Remember, these hundred odd "vets" having been playing this game for years, and have stuck by it loyally, only to have their opinions ignored in the end? Nice way to say thanks =)
5) Once again... Tell me the harm in an option? now, weight this against the pros? Hmm....
Now, before any of you guys that dislike hovering flame me. Lets get some facts down.
1) I have been playing bz2 ONLINE for over 3 years, along with my cousin "Stalker"
2) I have been in a couple of major bz2 clans, including some smaller ones. Most notable is {TsL}, which I was a bz2 division leader for, and comprised a division player base of around 44 at its peak. More recently *GEL*, which contains a fair amount of "elite" "vets".
3) I once thought hovering was lame, when I was a "newbie". That was before I learnt a few more skills and tactics in bz2, and it become fairly easy to counter.
4) I have done a fair bit of modding in bz2, including doing server things that were previous determined as "impossible" on the old Pandi boards. (Please not, us "vets" stuck with bz2 alot longer then "Pandi" give, and haven't giving up on it yet...)
5) I intend on playing 1.3, and I will once again, learn to "roll" with it. Having said that, I will still have a 1.2 install, even though I really can't spare the space, and I find it annoying having to swtich between installs to join a game.(because of time required, and game can become full, or closed before you get back into bz2). This is the main reason I don't play bz2.(Oh how I wish for a simple option button)
6) I think a few players on here who aren't "pro" hover can vouch for my skills. Last night, I had a 3v1, where I didn't hover at all, and I still won. Now don't say, so whats the big deal with no hover... Its not that "hovering" has been removed, its the feeling of "lack of mobility" in the new scouts that is the most frustrsting. Why don't we just make the game 2d, give the ships one set speed for all directs, that way, everyone can control the ships as good as one another, and player "skill" won't be are part of the game... Personally, from what I have seem over the years, almost everyone who complains about hovering(bar a select few), isn't able to control there ships as well as the said "hovers". Hence, there aren't really whining about "hovering", but the disparity in skill/hand-eye co-ordination. You see it in all games. "Damn it NoK, stop cheating, you can't possibly get that many head shots with the sniper rifle" - Quote from VietCong, in a server with Hradbra Anticheat engine running. The big difference I see in VC and bz2, is the "developpers" don't completely listen to ppl complaining about "disparity" in skill. It is a simple fact of life, some people are better at certain things then others. Get used to it.
Well, I have "ranted" another for tonight. Time to go continue trying out bz2 1.3, with the odd "fun" 1.2 game thrown in.
Have fun, good luck, and die Well.
No|<0mm3nt
PS: Please excuse typo's, silly grammer mistakes. I don't have time to fix it up atm, I prefer playing bz2 =)
Problem is Avatar losing the manouverabilty in the air is a big problem, ive tested this beta for some time, several RIP had access to the beta and several chose to play 1.2 and tolerate the other bugs just for the fun factor.
I will play 1.3 but i sure as hell wont stop playing 1.2 and fe zst etc
So far strat tactics have consisted of mass apc attacks n sending the bomber on a flanking attack and redirecting it's target. Bait the ai rckt tanks and the base is blown.
Is anyone currently having trouble with human v human dogfights or is 1.3 totally 56k unfriendly re this area. ?
I have 56k and in testing 1.3 in strats I haven't had
problems scout v scout.
But 'something' feels different.
I can get speed fine 'W-E' and get high off hills
no problem.
Maybe warp is reduced in 1.3, more testing...
I can acheive top speed but the acceleration is slower to respond. I can use the jump button but the jump is slower to respond. Strafe is also slow to respond. Hover I don't care about hover I just want the thing move when I tell it to and if it doesn't then by God I'll make a ship that does.
If I can't make a ship worthy of my needs for my kind of "fun" I will not use 1.3. Flexibility is the key, this should be flexible to MY needs for fun.
If I tell you the scout is too stiff then it is too stiff. I don't care what anyone else sees or agrees with.
I believe balance issues were not yet sorted in 1.3. The mobility of certain ships needs to be balance. For example: turrets are WAY too slow. Tanks are fine. Scouts are not.
I also think thats scouts aren't very manuverable. A simple increase in acceleration, especially of the starfe thrusters, would satisfy most of us. Its a quite simple ODF change. Perhaps people can try out new settings for 1.3 scouts. I know I will and when I find a good balance, I'll make a new topic.
Smoothing was taken too far and scouts suffer because of it. Balance is the way. I'm sure a little change can make things more fun yet still keep the idea of the game: no constant-hover.
QuoteI believe balance issues were not yet sorted in 1.3. The mobility of certain ships needs to be balance. For example: turrets are WAY too slow. Tanks are fine. Scouts are not.
Turrets and scouts arent the only ones. Try using the jet pack, it takes a few good seconds to respond
The jetpack actually animates now so that's why it takes a second to do it.
Balance issues were avoided when it became apparent that nobody could agree on what balanced things... It should probably have it's own board, actually, as many of the changes made in 1.3 made for serious balance issues.
STARTING Turrets are very slow. I realize the changelog is huge and that many features have been buried in with the technical issues, so it's easy to miss.
ONLY the Turrets present when the game starts move slowly, to prevent Turret Rushing at the onset of a match. Turrets created later on will be normal, and there are options aplenty in the MP setup screen for Turret skill, Service Truck skill, Starting Force, etc.. Explore them!
-Av-
Balance has to be something good for MPI as well as Strat. Too much tinkering with the balance has a direct effect on the AIP's so any though of balance has to be tested in both and dealt with in both.
Either that or use a seperate set of ODF's just for strat and balance those for strat which will leave the MPI system unchanged.
Wouldn't be hard to do. A 1.3 balanced strat Mod just for strat ODF's.
Thats correct. Stil, there are other balance issues.
- Strategy02, MPI DLLs modified so that AI skill levels are dropped a
notch for the starting vehicles. Thus, the starting turrets in strat
should be skill 2 by default, all other units 3. [NM]
- Nerfed movement of starting turrets. They move slower (half-speed),
take longer to deply & undeploy. This only applies to the (optional)
freebie turrets gotten at the start of a Strat/MPI game; doesn't
affect anything built at recy. [NM]
- Isdf turret gives 10 scrap when killed, same as scion turret. (Was
20, just wanted it to be consistent based on cost, etc). [NM]
- Dropped default AI skill of turrets to 2 for all human turrets,
starting or not. Note: older mappack .infs had this at 3; the new infs
don't set that ivar, but let the default in code handle it. I don't
want to hear a single bug report from you-know-whom about turrets
being too powerful, when he forgot to check this value in the pregame
settings! [NM]
I can understand about the frustration of losing hovering.
It's a shame that another fun little thing to do had to be taken out due to how it broke the strategic element. What I've found that many things that feel like they give the game (meaning, the Battlezone genre) a lot of playroom are actually strategy breakers.
Again, it's a shame. But, if it wasn't intended to be there, then, so be it.
At times when I play a game and I realize I'm not doing well, I feel like doing something silly. And this would be a time when I would expect to see someone pulling a hovering maneuver. Or someone else hops out and pulls out their sniper rifle. Or they do something else strange like just hop out of their craft and hop toward you, firing away.
In BZ2, if you aren't doing well, then you just aren't. Period. The little 'play escapes' just aren't there. Or at least, their effectiveness is DRASTICALLY lowered in BZ2.
I'm eager to try out the new aspects of 1.3 with MPI, but my game machine took a dump and I don't know how long it will be before it's up and running again.
BZ2 is the one and only game with both strategy AND first person action in nearly perfect balance. I guess one part of the community comes from pure strategy games in which you have no FPA part and another part comes from pure action games. The problem seems to be that due to the 1.2 ship physics the players with action background dominated the strategy players big time. Which in the end lead to an exodus of the strat players into modding and beta´ing 1.3.
Like most other vets I dont like what theyve done to the ship physics, but Im sure nothing we can do will help it. The coolest thing would be a shell switch or a 1.2 physics mod but thats apparently out of question. Im pretty sure there will be a big split in this small community. I know how you all fell about it, but since this discussion is more than 2 years old, Ive come to JUST DONT CARE.
A shell option or a separate exe for the other version of 1.3 would help, but that would just create a split too. It would be nearly impossible to do the shell option since the physics are handled by the exe and not by svars or ivars. A separate exe would be the only possible sollution but that won't happen since flying was considered a bug and the programmers aren't going to make a separate version of 1.3 just to reintroduce a bug.
You know, it never really bothered me either. I mean, it was just one less player on the ground doing good for the team. As a turret killing move it wasn't any worse than Scion flaring...
The point is it's gone and not coming back, so beating it to death is a waste of time.
Wardog (FeebleEffort now) is right, there are other balance issues that need addressing. The AI is more capable, defenses are better, and if games drag out unecessarily then Offense will need tweaking. I'm sure there are going to be plenty of issues to talk about.
We need some large games. FFA matches. DM-a-thons. LAN-tastic matches. And then we need people to come back here and describe the good and bad things that happened while playing.
For everyone who complained that the beta was a closed circle of elitist snobs (or any other BS) this should be their opportunity to join in. The boring skeleton changes are done, now's the time to shape the flesh... (no, that's not an ad for Fleshstorm Lizard...) :)
-Av-
I wonder if the manufacturers of baseballs realized that the stitching would allow such "cheats" as sliders, sinkers and curve balls.
And then realizing this "error" they attempted to fix this "bug" by making the ball smoother and trajectory more predictable. I'm sure the fans would not object.
I'm sorry, but what they have done to the ships is just stupid. I can't believe anyone in the development beta didn't say something about this, this is just ridicilous. This would be the #1 thing I would have complained BIG TIME about.
I do NOT care if this will not, cannot be changed. It has to be changed. It's as simple as that. If this stays like this in the 1.3 final we're going to see a lot of people losing interest in this game.
I'd rather see no final 1.3 than see one that has this unchanged.
I don't think you "oh...he's hovering the hoot out of my base!!" whiners don't realize is that the majority of the people who play this game play it because it's FUN! You can't sit back and look at the game and say "Ahh...that's a bug, let's remove it!" after more than 4 years! It's in VET nature to be free in the scout, to be agile, to fly and hover.
This is like GOD would come to earth and say, "Oh...I originally didn't want humans to be able to stand up straight and speak, it's a bug, I'm going to remove it!"
Nathan, Ken: bad decision.
Do what others will end up doing, slap the MFW to an insane level. Go fast young Grasshoppa !
Like I said before I don't think hover was all that important but the speed and agility of the ships has been hampered.
Balance? well I don't care what you call it. The ships are clumsy and sluggish
in 1.3
If getting rid of hover did this then maybe you got rid of too much of the hover and it cost you else where. Computers are weird things to program at times.
If the seams caused the ball to hover in mid air out of reach of the batter then they might want it fixed...;)
Always thought it very lame, looking forward to getting into mult more now that it's gone and the "vets" that exploited it have to learn how to dogfight and manage AI units properly. Good riddance.
Doesn't it strike anyone that needing to ask players to obey unenforceable conduct rules to prevent lame base hovering indicates a game issue that required fixing?!? If it's such a "feature" why is it banned in bases? Duh.
Strat scouts might be more sluggish now, if so that should probably get looked at - maybe more strafe ability in mid air etc, which is likely a simple ODF tweak. But flying was plain dumb - that's what bombers are for.
Appel, let me explain from my point of view.
When I joined the testing group I was made aware that
because the patch creator hated hovering (not ANY of the testers)
he was removing it as one of the FIRST actions upon the patch.
None of the testers were allowed to suggest its return and many
many of the testers are adept hoovers.
If I was to start a thread in our testing forum and state the case
for re-introducing hovering the thread would probably be locked
and I would probably be kicked out of the test group.
Do NOT blame the loss of hovering on ANY of the testing group.
The developers said that the ability to fly WAS broken physics. They fixed it.
delete the stupid hover, put altitude limts on hovercraft, do what ever you want to get rid of your stupid almighty friggin hover.
Just put back the lost agility!!!! How hard is this to understand!!!???
Removing hovering is one of the defining characteristics of 1.3. Whether in private or public beta the issue is not open to change, regardless of whether it is a good or bad thing. My understanding is that there will be no switch to allow 1.3 physics on/off because it would take a lot of time and effort, and because some people object to it in pricinple.
People who don't like 1.3 physics will have to weigh this against any improvements in 1.3. So the choice is likely to be: 1.2 physics and faults vs 1.3 physics and features. Sadly, 1.2 physics and 1.3 features does not appear to be an option.
you know what the funniest thing is , when BZ2 was first released there was a massive outcry from the old BZ1 vets over BZ2's (1.0 - 1.2) physics , they complained the ships were too fast and slidey and that the physics didn't seem real enough . Now that everyone has settled into the feel of BZ2 the argument has reversed , instead of giving it this kneejerk reaction to change why not give the patch a chance ?
I'm not saying that I'm 100% happy with everything I've seen but I am at least willing to keep and open mind and give the thing a chance , writing the patch off without even exploring the benefits it offers is , to me , a sign of ignorance and close mindedness .
Being able to hover over a base and destroy stuff with impunity is only fun for the pilot and is akin to masturbation.
Time to come down to earth and fight and die like a warrior.
Now Lookie there. There isn't ANY control FREAK insinuating what I have been saying all along.
THANK YOU Dirty Rooster, You are truthful and show the other people who are yet to be saved, that being controlled by others isnt a good thing.
Change subjects, close posts and post stoopid crap to try and put people on the defensive. Bottom line....... Like I have said many times. Control over suckcess.
This place is vile.
The Physics is a bug. Complain & flaming won't change the developers minds. Closing Thread to prevent futher Flaming & all futher posts about physics will be closed to prevent flaming. those who repeadly attempt to flame about the physics will get banned from this area, that includes you Major_Tom.