This is an update to the experimental recycler Greenheart posted yesterday. Vet Recycler Option B13 (http://www.cutrzedge.net/user/unit-test-b13.zip)
These files will overwrite the old files that he made since they are updating his files. Thanks goes to Malevolence, Pyromane, appel, Oppressor, Fried and anyone else that I may have forgotten. Simply extract this file to the root folder of your BZ2 1.3 install and you will be set! This file updates your recylist and mpvehicles text files so that you can choose the new recycler in strat AND so that you can also choose these Experimental vehicles as your starting scouts. Please try this out and give as much feedback as you can. Support BZ2!
Please! ANYONE WHO DOWNLOADED THE PREVIOUS VERSION PLEASE DELETE THE FOLLOWING FOLDERS/FILES FROM THE PREVIOUS VERSION:
Test Units
mpvehicles.txt
THESE FILES/FOLDERS ARE IN THE addon DIRECTORY IN YOUR BZ2 1.3 INSTALL.
***NOTE: To enable the special vehicle list in this version drop down the console and type this without the quotes "network.session.svar4=Evehicles.txt"
Thank you Aegeis, and GreenHeart and deadscion for making this possible.
Let me add.
I'd like to start with the scout. Compared to the 1.2 scout this new scout glides more through the air and can gain a bit more speed than the 1.2 one. However, it's hovering abilities are not *exactly*, but extremely close, the same as the 1.2 one...what I mean is that I believe that this scout will satisfy those who thrive for base hover. It's only downside is that due to 1.3 physics (designed to prevent hovering) it cannot stay in the same position with it's nose down for very long, it will start to lose altitude and you need to use the sidethrusters to fix your altitude again.
In my opinion this scout does an excellent job replacing the 1.2 one, considering the physics of the new 1.3 scout.
The tank was a bit more of a problem. We cannot have tanks going as fast as scouts, but we did try to match the tanks agility and speed so it can match the new scout. However, I'd like to see more testing done on the balance between these scouts and tanks. In 1.2 the tanks use hills and sides to gain more speed, but in 1.3 it's harder because of the terrain bumping. I hope the speed is enough.
Scions.
We did a bit of scionic testing, but we agreed that the most ships were 1.2 like. Please verify this.
Thanks.
ps. can anyone make this a sticky?
Ok, we did some testing tonight. Please post comments for improvements.
And yes, I know, the Gun Towers are PURE EVIL! I will fix it for the next build I hope! :D
Thx Aegeis, will check it out now.
Yea, the gun towers, *just a bit.* Otherwise, the scout hovering aspect is good, simply because they can't really do much since they don't have that in-air manuvability the 1.2 scouts had. Buts its great in general, I like it.
As I expected to happen....the "basic" 1.3 may satisfy some BZ 2 players, but clearly the physics changes will not be accepted by a majority of the community...So it was told..and so (it appears) it shall be.
GSH Was quick to point out 1.3 was designed to give players options.
Well..This is the option.
1.3 "Basic" May continute to evolve and and remaining Bugs and warp issues be adressed (and I hope corrected) By GSH. But Balance Is a serious serious issue, and a issue barely covered in 1.3 testings for reasons I won't go into here.
But, suffice it to say, In my judgement the physics are just the tip of the balance iceberg. I feel pleased that Aegis and the others have "taken the Ball" and started work on the physics, I believe once acceptable scouts are achieved, then dedicated MP games will be much more "fun" for experienced players and more feedback will point out areas for GSH to "fix".
IF GSH has no "desire" for sticking through things and working out "balance issues", I have no doubt we who play the game can do much of that task.
Some of us who were in the beta group (believe it or not... with GSH's blessing at first) Did attempt this task during the "mid" beta phase...I called the attempt:
The "1.3 Players Balance Patch"....
I'd like to see this same concept play out and we can take advantage of GSH's knowledge and skill with code, and we the players can provide the input(and if necessary the tweaking) to balance 1.3 so it can be a unifying patch for the community.
Already you can see early players of 1.3 (because of just this one changes) Switch form "anti 1.3!"...to 1.3 proponents!....as well it should be. 1.3 potentiallly has much to offer..I'd like to see if fulfilled.
Now..there's work to be done.
:D
-Av-
Actually, I should control my glee (yes, it's glee, I had it checked) and repeat from another post:
Two cautions:
1. Don't go nuts with changes without testing testing testing. Did I mention they should be tested? Thoroughly? Try to work that in between testing sessions...
2. Any changes that are to go into 1.3 MUST be accepted by ALL players. That usually means placing them in the Recy variants rather than expecting to see stock ODF's tweaked.
So, it would be nice in the end to see three or four Recy variants selectable depending on skill level of the players. Things should range from the 'easy' Recy emphasizing simplicity and Defense to the 'Veteran' Recy emphasizing individual skill and unit complexity.
In the end it's up to GSH and Ken as to what goes in the 'official' 1.3 patch. The more thoroughly it's all tested, the more efficiently it's laid out, and the less bu!! that accompanies it the better the chance that it'll all go smoothly and become part of the final patch. Anything too offbeat can wait and be the subject of future mods...
-Av-
Yup, lots of feedback is needed here. Please don't hesitate to critisize anything I'm doing here. I'm a real noob at all this odf changing and tweaking so any help would be appreciated.
It is real nice, no needed changes anymore to the scout. Just gotta test warp. They still warp a lot and lasers are very hard to hit.
The hovering is fine since its not really practical to hit a base with. The hovering would probably only be used on the field and its harder to do, requiring more skill.
HOWEVER!
I do *not* want to see the normal 1.3 wall on the wayside with balance issues. We gotta address that side of the patch too, its equally as important.
if things can be brought into what is considered the standard play style I would assume nathan and ken would included it as such.
Basically I like it.
However, much as I like the scout's speed and agility, I noticed a scout, running in a straight line away from me, take little blinky jumps (running from one base in Quarry to the other). Maybe thats the server, maybe thats the individual player, maybe it's this mod/patch.
There is also the BA issue to be addressed, as mentioned in game.
Well I finally got to test out the changes on my main pc at home and I think the scout strafe is to much. Just my opinion though. I've already gotten suggestions to drop the forward thrust of bikes, msl scouts and forward moveement of ass tanks. Any other suggestions?
Slow and steady wins the race Aeg...Trying to tweak 3 or 4 diff units per "patch" is a recipe for confusion. I'd suggest "nailing down" the scout..and that means warp and SCION SCouts as well...
Then tweak a unit at a time and see how a few games go get as much feedback as possible from experienced players on specifics of a unit... And tweak in small incriments 10% at a time...Most of these units were not tweaked by Ken for 1.3..they are much thge same as 1.2 units..and we never asked for radical changes of those units before.
So..slow and steady...
QuoteFrom Recylist.txt
// Translation: a way to pick a MOD before a game, and have it not
// cause bad assets, assuming the author wrote it well.
Well guess that is not the case :lol: . I cannot join any game using default recycler without recieving bad assets after installing this patch, MOD, or whatever you want to call it. :s
that had to do with the mpvehicals.txt not recylist.txt
The 2 units that need the most attention are the Scout and the Tank. These 2 guys need to be absolutely balanced to the extreme since these are the two units that are most frequently used in MP games.
I believe we got the tank exactly where it should be, however I feel like the 1.2 tank to be more agile in the air. However, if we were to add more speed to this tank it might begin to warp in games.
I've been thinking BIG about the scouts as the dilemma it is in: Either reduce speed to decrease warp, but then losing more hovering abilities. The scout's speed should be not be increased.
This scout is a very cool ship, but I think it goes too fast. I can just see all these first dogfights where everyone run away yellow or green with no ammo left :) I believe the side-thrusters to be 100% good. Forward-thrust needs to be put 1-2 levels down.
PLEASE RUN THE 1.2 AND 1.3 at the same time, ALT-TAB between them and check how the scouts are different. Also the tanks.
Let me add. Considering how sluggish the original 1.3 scouts are and how warpy they are, I don't believe we're going to see much reduction in warp. I believe that's the 1.3 patch that needs some more work regarding warp.
To fix my error with this patch, remove the mpvehicles.txt from the addon folder and you should be good to go. I'll just have to delete that file from the next version and tell people who do not already know to remove the file from their hard drive so as not to cause any more hassels with this recycler option.
some people might not know they need to delete the file, so i recommend that you include the orginal file to overwrite the file..
Ive had that scout warp in all variants of 1.3 reccy infact the last time i can remember not having that warp was when me and the guys including wardog were trying to sort out the maxsmooth , must be over a year ago minimum late 30's builds.
I guess it's made worse by my poor connection.
Anyone tried adjusting the maxsmooth/velsmooth settings?
I don't want to include that stock asset back from the pak file becuase what if it is changed in the pack file but then the one i have in addon overrides it? I think I should just stress the importance of deleting that file immediately so that is causes no more problems. Besides I came up with another alternative so we should be back to normal soon.
released new version, check first post in this thread for download link
I think it's needed in the game info what "recycler mode" is being played...so people know if it's a mod or not.
This patch/mod plays similar to stock 1.3, which is fine. I only really notice the difference in the first third of the game, when I need that extra speed and agility, and I don't have other stuff to distract me.
I can't be sure if the warp is greater than stock; maybe it is slightly greater, maybe I just watch out for it more with patch/mod.
May I suggest that instead of saying 1.3 Experimental Recycler in the Rec list it has a version number as well? Something like
"1.3 Experimental Recycler b13".
I agree with the naming structure. This variant option will become a nightmare once groups decide to make their own variants and send it out to the public. Potientially, you could have 100's of variants in there if you like to packrat.
I think we've done what we can with the latest ISDF scout (b13). It can hover, fly and everything. Hopefully people will like it. Even though it's not an exact match to the 1.2 one, I believe this socut offers other options that the 1.2 doesnt.
However, I think I'm going to stick with 1.2, FE, ZST for the time being...until 1.3 Public Beta #2 is released. There are too many things in the current 1.3 release that needs to be worked out before I can see myself having a jolly good time in it. :s
*bump*
We really got get to work on the standard 1.3 scout w/o hovering. Remember, this all started with an attempt to make the original scout more agile, not to make it hover.
Well, increase the strafe thrusters but don't go as high as what I have the hover scout as. If you do do that though then you have to adjust all the other units accordingly, for instance sabres, drones, warriors, sentries, lancers, bikes, and msl scouts.
I like the scion feel, sentry feels good to bad it hasnt got a cannon :D
ISDF is fine as well, but it sometimes seems, that if you go down/up a hill, the scout will destablise a bit and 'bounce' on for a moment... (nose up, down, etc)
Havent got the chance to test the new sabre yet, in the version I tested fac couldnt built it :P If it was warpless it would be almost perfect :D
Yeh I fixed that problem with B13 not being able to build them.