Does anyone like to select/ask for a Sentry in most games as Scions?
If not, why do you prefer the other units (scout,warrior)? Which aspect of the Sentry could be emphazied to make it the ship of choice for a specific situation X? (ex: increase its ammo capacity by a large margin, making it the best mine layer)
Otherwise has anyone used it in 1.3 out of curiosity. What's your opinion (good, so-so, possible tweeks?)
In FE revc, they made it stronger and it effectively made it a great unit to use. Guass + Prox + Stasis on a sentry in pre-blink times is a great ship to have. We should follow the same lead and make the sentry more powerful.
I never really could quite see the point of sentries , they look cool but that's about as far as it goes . Then again I've never really been much of a scion player so maybe there's something I'm missing .
You can compare lancers to avengers/rocket tanks. Sentries are the scion unit of choice between scouts (relatively weak) and late game blink-warriors.
i dont see why someone will prefer sentry over either a scout or warior...
if u want speed ull go for scout
if u want to kill ISDF scouts ull go arc warior / arc scout
or even a sonic scout
if u want to kill pools - get warior anyways
i cant find not even 1 good reason to use a sentry...
ion is weak against buildings (pools)
and ull just be slower
scotus move faster and the plasma stream works better but it just drains ammo 2 fast but i think if u check by the time a sentry will kill a pool in middle lets say quarry and the time a scout with plasma (before wepons) will finish all his ammo will get btb and back to pool will be shorter then the sentry
I think if you could stick a cannon in the centre of the Sentry it would be a brilliantly fast light tank, I use to have great fun in 1.2 in the Crystals mission charging ISDF Rocket tanks leading loads of other Scion tanks like the scout, Lancer, Warroir, and other Sentry tanks, use to get blown right out of the tank if I didn't straffe around it but it had me in fits of laughter,
Also I use to be able to take down a Sabre pretty well enough in it 8) but I do think it is the weakest of the ships, even the Scion Scout drone has better weaponry, but if it was like the Stoli or the Bobcat with a Cannon and machine guns or in the Sentry's case, machine ion guns I don't think people would find it so weak then, especially with a hornet rocket weapon on it 8)
if u put a cannon on it it'll be exaclty like the warior only looking difrent and faster
whats the point? :s
In FE they are brilliantly balanced so that they're actually useful along with scouts (killing hardned units). Guass really puts a number on ISDF scouts and in case you didn't know, assualt guass outranges turrets. It makes the sentry a very powerful unit for a thug to have, in companion with a scion scout.
The more choices, the better. A scion commander shouldn't just be limited to scouts and warriors to win (the same epidemic plaguing 1.2 ISDF).
Sentries are not good in maps such as quarry, they're good in big maps with open spaces.
yo speedy maybe u can enlighten me wont an arc hit do more then gauss hit?...
u saing gauss outrange rats...
just dont forget arc outrange rats and does mroe dmg :s
What's the point, more options for a start and a lot more firepower for the Sentry, it wouldn't be so weak with it's weapons, otherwise you might as well have that as the Scout ship and the Scout as the Sentry.
Besides there was no real point in BZ1 having a rocket tank and a Bomber tank but both were a lot of fun if armed right. :P
they were accutly much difrent from warior to sentry or scout to sentry...
The Scion Scout=Light Tank.
Sentry=Scout.
Obviously. The Scion Drone Scout is cannon armed. It is essentialy a light tank. But a very cheap light tank, buildable from the Matriarch! The Sentry, though...it's a very powerful scout.
if its so powerful why no1 uses it?
i dont think u can compare scions or isdf to bz1...
sentry is the scout version of ISDF only more ammo and slower
BUT since scions dont have good guns against buildings and the normal scout is faster it became unused... because u just cant find something useful to do with it...
killing scouts and other units - arc / sonic scout / warior
killing pools - same as above
attacking bases - same as above
can u give me 1 good use of the sentry that warior and scout cant do?
i dont think im the only one thinking like that.. ive NEVER saw a sentry in use and i think theres a good reason for that... i do belive some players tried sentry from every angle and no1 uses sentries
Yeah but they both could carry the dumbfire Hornet Rocket and one had a cannon the other didn't also both sides had the equivalent so both sides where evenly matched, with the Sentry the only thing it can come anyway near matching is the ISDF Scout and even the ISDF Scout has slight better weaoponry with the FAF missile on board.
The Sentry is built in the factory because t is meant to be slightly better than the Scout , but , really, it isn't, the Scout is better armed and if you have the Rain Forest Mod , the Scout with the Scoin Plasma cannon is on a par with the Warroir while the Sentry is simply outclassed by the Scout in that mod, I say give it a cannon at least , then it would be something, add 2 rocket hardpoints then it will be something even better I certainly will with my mod. 8)
By the time scions get gauss they can also get warriors ...
with gauss.
A plasma/gauss warriors is better than sentry but more expensive.
In 1.2 and 1.3 sentries are practically useless compared to other
units of choice. I myself think this is simply because IonII is
so bad against heavies and buildings.
Upping damage of IonII v pools and scavs would make sentries worth
suing by humans and AI before gauss/maulers are available.
IonII is currently great vs light/no armour, doesn't need improving there.
What would be good is not so much to just make it stronger (more like scout/warrior) but to improve it slightly in general but to improve it dramatically for a specialized theme. (I still have not figured out what could be it's 'specialty')
ex: it could have a lot of ammo for use of specials (mine, etc) and regenerate much faster than any other Scion its size...
HOW ABOUT?:
// COMBAT MODE /////////////////////
maxHealth = 2100 // a bit more health than current (vs 2000)
maxAmmo = 3000 // much more ammo than current (vs 2500)
addAmmo = 8.0 // very good ammo regeneration (vs 3.0)
addhealth = 2.0 // minimal health regeneration (vs 0.0)
armorClass = N
radarSignature = 0.2 // btw what does that do? (vs 0.3)
rangeScan = 350.0 // greater range scan, still less than scout at 450 (but better than the current 250)
// ASSAULT MODE /////////////////////
[MorphTankClass]
addAmmo = 4.0 // moderate ammo regeneration (vs 0.0)
addhealth = 10.0 // excellent heath regeneration (vs 3.0)
maxHealth = 1900 // more than current Assault health (vs 1500)
maxAmmo = 3300 // even more ammo (vs 2500)
armorClass = L // but tougher in assault (vs N)
radarSignature = 0.1 // btw what does that do? (vs 0.3)
whith those stats (althought not more powerful purely on damage) would you take a Sentry over a scout or a warrior every now and then?
What could the Sentry's niche specialty be? (could it be an ECM ship? see invisible units? more stealthy vs radar have a lower radar signature?).
The problem with a sentry is that we dont want another tank.
radarsignature is its ability to be picked up on radar. 0 means it cannot be targetted. in the customization screen for vehicles and their weapons, you see radar, heat etc. signatures. missils that home into radar will be much more effective with a higher signature rating.
adding more armor to assault defeats the purpose.
the way your thinking IW is similar to what the FE makers had on their mind.
the reason why you would use a sentry instead of a scout? more ammo for blink, and more maneuverability. also, more health.
its just the whole power that it lacks issue. thats why gauss had its damage upped in FE also.
I've just been going over the stats for these units and they all have the same build times, even for custom units. Is that alright? Shouldn't a unit that is bigger and heavier and uses more biometal take more time to build as well as cost more? I think they should.
ISDF
====
scrapValue = 15
scrapCost = 45
customCost = 60
buildTime = 15.0
customTime = 15.0
maxHealth = 1200
maxAmmo = 1000
addAmmo = 3
unitName = "Mtr Bike"
scrapValue = 15
scrapCost = 50
customCost = 50
buildTime = 15.0
customTime = 15.0
maxHealth = 1800
maxAmmo = 1500
addAmmo = 1
unitName = "Scout"
aiName = "ScoutFriend"
aiName2 = "ScoutEnemy"
scrapValue = 20
scrapCost = 55
customCost = 65
buildTime = 15.0
customTime = 15.0
maxHealth = 3500
maxAmmo = 2200
addAmmo = 5
unitName = "Tank"
---------------------------
SCION
=====
scrapValue = 10
scrapCost = 45
customCost = 50
buildTime = 15.0
customTime = 15.0
maxHealth = 1200
maxAmmo = 2000
addAmmo = 2.0
addHealth = 0.0
unitName = "Scout"
---------------------------
scrapValue = 10
scrapCost = 50
customCost = 50
buildTime = 15.0
customTime = 20.0
maxHealth = 2000
maxAmmo = 2500
addAmmo = 3.0
addhealth = 0.0
unitName = "Sentry"
---------------------------
scrapValue = 15
scrapCost = 55
customCost = 65
buildTime = 15.0
customTime = 15.0
maxHealth = 3500
maxAmmo = 3000
addAmmo = 5.0
addhealth = 0.0
unitName = "Warrior"
I think starting to switch build times would be to much of change over what has already changed. Lets just get the stuff have has changed already balanced out first.
sentries are not better manuverable in anyway scouts are much much faster and so easy to cmd a scion scout
just slight difrent from isdf (the mastering level) but scouts are defently maunverable better...
and by the time u blink back to base with your all might big ammo supply i can drive my scout btb get a pod and go back and do more damage..
sentries will get slaughterd in late games when they get the gauss cannon
because the isdf already have tanks most of the times, and if not tanks then at least full scouts
shadowers will slaughter any sentry no metter what shield
while laser will slaugher any sentry without absro and chain scout will slaughter any sentry without deflection
i find sentries totaly uselss because even dmg to light and non armor units scouts and wariors does more dmg and are basicly better in everything else
(speed, ammo)
giving a cannon to sentry is bad idea
why not give a cannon to msl scout? and maybe a cannon to mortar bike?
giving it a cannon will make it a faster warior with less ammo
whats the point in that?
i find it dumb and defently not needed
i cant think of a way to improve it though, i think its just a useless ship :roll:
Crap Phoenix :evil: , giving a Cannon to a Sentry is a good idea I KNOW I HAVE PLAYED WITH ONE ALREADY within the editor with a ship variant and , it was brilliant, it was finally a unit to be reckoned with. Also I think speed it up as well, and I think give the scout some Ion Cannons.
The only thing I will agree with you about is that the Sentry is way too weak to be some kind of ship above the Scout, if that is the case then put the Sentry in the Recycler, give it a rocket point and give it the same speed as the ISDF Scout and basically that would be it :roll: .
Besides, in the ODF's you can change it to anything and you can change the ammo and the armour so I don't about it being like a faster Warrior with less armour, dosen't have to be especially if you add a couple of rocket HPs to it, and keep the special weapons on it like the Seeker and it comes into its own.
omg are u looking at what u posting?
ya give scout ions
and give isdf scout cannon
and give everyship cannons and 2 guns
SF had some realy weird ships and guess what? no1 liked that
Having 3 gun would be nice :D .
thats at least sounds better... but i still find them preaty useless
Well Sorry Phonenix but when it comes right down to it, if I put that in my mod and you don't like it "aaaawwwwwwwwwwwww my heart bleeds" I have played Starfleet Platoons one off mission and I thought it was OK and the Rainforest mod would be excellent if it didn't have that overbuild at the end Same with the Borg Mod , but at least THEY BUILT A MOD.
Look, if you don't like the Sentry, make a mod WITHOUT THE GODDAMN SENTRY in it or simply make it an equivauent of the ISDF scout, I notice you don't go as mad with the ISDF Scout settings, faster than the Sentry with a rocket hardpoint 2 machine gun points and a minelayer on it.
The point of this thread I think is for our thoughts offically and I think unoffically to see how it can be improved, not state the bleedin' obvoius about the Sentry, we all know the Sentry is crap compared to the other ships,
OK then what would you do to improve it?
I dunno, early game sentries are damn good units but soon as the isdf get better ships you better pack that sentry away and don't bother building it. That's my opinion. Leave it as is.
Is it possible to make multiple guns shooting at the same time then? If yes and you still think it's useless make 4 of them :D ! Or make the ion gun be better against high armour vehicles in combat mode, why make other tipes of HP? You can make a gun as powerfull as a cannon! How about making the sentry more manouvrable than the scouts for almost unacessable terrain chase? This way they could provide a backdoor to a base, at least they will have some use, scouts will be bumping on all kind of things and so they would be detected sooner. Otherwise, you could give it very high health so it would be a defender or maybe distraction.
Man! Stop trying to make 1.3 patch a mod. We want it to be just like it has been for the last what 4 or 5 years. If you wanna change sentries so bad then please just make a mod. Its so easy nowadays with the recycler variant thingy.
agreed
no need to make 1.3 mod... fix only the bugs.. sentry being useless is not a bug :)
and gfu u loved starfleet... from what i saw in list
once a month SF game when it was at is "best" 1 game a month with 10 more 1.2 on the list...
put it in your mod... realy.. i realy wont care.. u can play with it alll day long...
gl finding ppl that will play with ya
and ya they built a MOD
not a patch to a current game like what we are trying to do here
Whatever PhoneniX, anyway, if your talking about the patch I say just give it a few more weapons, make it like the Stoli or Bobcat, actually make it usefull throughout the game instead of the first couple of minutes, otherwise swap it with the Scout and rename it Scout and have the Scout renamed as Sentry because even in defense mode, the current Scout would be better as a fast defensive/offensive vehicle for ataacking based and defending the recycler than the Sentry is.
Apart from that I like 1.3 quite a bit :D
as mention before it would be best to improve it while keeping as different as possible from the others (drone, warrior) in its gameplay. A cannon is a good idea to make it stronger, but would make it more similar.
besides giving it greater AMMO, a bit more health, much much faster REGENERATION and greater sensor range, it could ALSO be made much more effective at MINE laying than any other ship?
with either;
PLAN A) mine cluster: (reducing the delay to 1 sec between mine drops could allow the Sentry to lay several mines in a row)
OR (if delay between drops is a weapon parameter than cant be adjusted on the ship itself)
PLAN B) triple mine hardpoints: with 3 mine hardpoints have it drop three mines each time you press fire (harry, drop 3 seekers, turn around and harry some more)
I think that with these adjustments the Sentry would be more effective yet still quite different in gameplay from Drone and Warriors.
its np either shooting faf or other lil radious weapon to blast mines or just go over them in your way btb when u already going to take a pod... + they dont explode after some tmie?
and who will want to go in a unit that lay mines but well suck at other things
keep in mind
its a PATCH not a mod
although it wasnt used in 1.0 and 1.2 doesnt mean we must use it in 1.3
could've been nice that all units were used but they are not... thats how the game turned out to be... u dont have to change it so much.. and if u feel like you must u can always make a mod with all your wildest ideas
my take on sentries..... well lets say U have your typical 5 gun tower isdf base. if you were to send some 10 warriors in theyd get blasted, easy. but if you were to send in sentreies before the warrior squad the story would be a little diffrent. i believe the sentries whole purpose is to occupy the base defences or keep larger units such as the attila busy. 4 guass gun sentries can down a attila easy...if you give them blinks there even more dangerous.
sentries are fast and agile...making them hard to hit by sabres.
even though sentries are good for these things i only use them to guard scavangers on scrap runs. its fun though to send 40 sentries at a human base.... they just simply overrun the G-towers
Could try making it stealthed like deployed turrets? Line of site targeting/radar only? It's an option. Keep it weak but make it sneaky.
Hmmm, now that's a thought, but how would it effect early games? Remember, if you have choice between warrior or sentry late game, most definitely warrior.
well guys
as i said earlier post
do we realy need the sentry? didnt we live without it for hmm 4 years? :s
i mean... we can leave them as they are...
I was just thinking how much 5 or so undetected AI sentries suddenly buzzing around your base with twin gauss could really wreck your day... kinda suits the Scion style too maybe. As for game effect, well test it and see I guess ;)
But whatever you do I think it be one for a mod. It'd be nice to make it useful (one thing we tried for in FE) but the cascading balance knock on effect is as always a knotty issue.
Yeh but see, I don't see the sentry as a base buster. In my eyes its primary focus would be early game domination over isdf scouts. But, like it has been brought up before, more than likely by that time you would have warriors and I would much rather put some fear into them with a warrior with arc/gauss than a sentry, unless of course you want to toy with them! :D
"keep in mind
its a PATCH not a mod"
:roll: New units are for Mods. Banlancing existing units can be done in a Patch. (Stacraft's patches have made minor and major unit adjustments to improve the units balance, and they are not called mods, they're patches),
Having it lay several mines in a few seconds would be distinctive, and since you point out mines are not very effective it would not make it too powerful, which is why other stats could be increased, like a great increase to ammo/health regeneration, sensor range and why it could be given the stealth.
Slaor, I really like the Stealth idea!
With increased health/ammo regeneration, sensor range, rapid mine layings and stealth it would still be quite different in style and gameplay and would not change its weakness in firepower, BUT it would be much more intersting to have in certain situations and I think the game would only be better. :-D
I'm not so much thinking of it as a base buster but more as a guerilla. Stealthed sentries would be good for sneaky diversionary attacks in heart of base that ties up player and defenses while the maulers charge in. Or maybe they can be the unit to sit quiet and undetected in that gully ready for quick softening runs on advancing assault squads.
The key: Decide on a valid strategic use for it, THEN change it, not other way around. And do it in a mod.
(thinking quietly to self)
hmm, what would FE do?
In FE the sentry was given Light armor, but I think in rev c they got rid of the armor in favor of more hull strength. But I'm not 100% sure.
This same issue cropped up in FE early - what to do with the poor little bugger? Almost seems a spot filler really. I seem to remember that tiny morph time and upped gauss damage were tested to make it better at quick assaults on mixed unit groups, but have been away for a while now so dunno what it ended up as.
1.3 definitely gives a few interesting options in that regard.
if any thing the sentry should be given a 3rd gun...sentries are more comparible to a edf scout than anything else. giving them would help them and the whole scion line stand out.
Thats what I am saying Pharoh, that would make it quite usefull make the third gun a cannon or give it a rocket hardpoint, make it actually deserve it's rep as a Sentry, I mean , what does Sentry mean? the word means or is interpreted as a guard, well if you got some ISDF Scouts , say 10 Scouts verus 10 Sentries the ISDF would problably win, not so if the Sentry had a Cannon hardpoint and a rocket hardpoint, plus, with a load of Seeker mines it would be quite a fast defensive unit, also it would be more of a devastating attack force, possibly with the upgrade FE guass guns.
As it is it is great fun but I usually overlook it in games really unless I want a bit of a laugh or I am desparate for ships.
Giving Sentries a missile HP would make Lancers completely useless. Ion Guns are devasting to N armored units like scouts. Assault Ions are somewhat useful against Heavy armored units. Sentries are great units that have a lot more ammo then an ISDF scout, but could probably do with forward speed increase, and slightly stronger hull strength to compensate for their cost.
Actually I must say this, I do like the idea of it being a stealth tank, if you could somehow make the Phantom IV invisblity shield make the tank invisible and totally undetectable to radar then you could make some devatating sneak attacks on a human or MPI base, while you got 30 of them tying down the baseas they attack, the other units won't see your other meduim and heavy units come and attack the base, so to me that is a brilliant strategic suggestion, four gun HP's? sounds nice that could be then like a ground gunship or something with better Ion guns .
And if you had an uprated Ion Gun on par with the heavy chain guns in FE then that would be good, and still have a cannon with it, 1 or 2 rocket hardpoints , bit more armour and a a lot more ammo hold and I think that could really work, it would make it different , formidible, and a more useful unit
interesting that you mention that DVE....most of the times when i spot sentries, theres 2 of em tailing a scavanger. there nothing more than a glorified watchdog without a 3rd gun, a cannon, or a even a rocket.
No it wouldn't,The ISDF msl Scout dosn't make the ISDF Rocket Tank uselsss , although granted The Rocket Tank can shoot down ariel targets and the Msl Scout can't but I think then the Lancer couldbe made to shoot down arial targets with rockets and make sure the Sentry can't do that then I think that would create a good balance between the 2, also give a rocket the the Sentry can't carry but the Lancer can.
That is what I am saying Pharoh, with just shields, mines and two guns on them, they really aint much :s
DVE - 1.3 allows you to set a unit as stealthed in the same way as a deployed turret is stealthed - ie u can't target it and it doesn't show on radar unless u can actually see it. This is a powerful attribute in its own right, no need for full invisibility.
I suppose but you can still see it and I am sure the other units can still see it so it could scout out a base but not go in invisibly and then suddenly
decloak and say attack the Factory or something like that.
With full invisbilty added you can do something like that although I wouldn't add it to multiplayer, I have seen loads of posts on here about the "hover bug" putting that in muliplayer would be asking for trouble. :-D
What FE did:
Removed light armour from sentry
Added 250 health to sentry (2250 - 2500)
-----------
Sentry somewhat more balanced with other early-game forces. Without the light armour, a laser scout might have a fighting chance against a sentry with the rev.C gauss gun. Of course, a laser scout needs something like tag cannon to hit pools, but things are at least a little close to fair now.
Sentry assault-mode health increased from 1900 to 2500
-----------
The sentry, having had it's light armour removed to tone it down, we found was much too weak in assault mode, making morphing essentially pointless (esp. In light of the fact that FE version one and revB features a combat gauss gun range of 150m rather than the 1.2 140m, meaning you do not need to morph to out-range turrets).
As for actually changing the sentry, I'm for it. But it might be better to leave it as a mod thing although giving standard 1.3 players more ship-choice is a good thing. Sentries look damn cool, its too bad people don't use them like they should.
bigger cannons, more guns, missile would all increase its firepower, thus make it more similar to others, which is not interesting.
"DVE - 1.3 allows you to set a unit as stealthed in the same way as a deployed turret is stealthed - ie u can't target it and it doesn't show on radar unless u can actually see it. This is a powerful attribute in its own right, no need for full invisibility."
The more I think about it the more that type of stealth option sounds perfect for the Sentry. It doesnt increase its head-on firepower but differentiates it while making it more interesting.
Do you know which paramerter to include in the fvsent.odf to make it stealthy in this particular way?
(I'll also try to make a seekersalvo mine [same as seeker with greater rate of fire; smaller 'shotdelay' value] and put it in as a default on the sentry, to test if its usefull when actually tested/used in a game.)
I think ot was suggested in this thread by
Foxblade: "radarsignature is its ability to be picked up on radar. 0 means it cannot be targetted. in the customization screen for vehicles and their weapons, you see radar, heat etc. signatures. missils that home into radar will be much more effective with a higher signature rating. "
IceWendigo, put two extra guns on it as well, preferably a cannon as well if you can. but if not at least put four guns on it and make it a gunship I was thinking also of making the morph mode of it faster and the Ion 2 fire faster, kind oi like the alt-fire for the mini-gun in Unreal Tournament 2003 :twisted:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think 4 guns (same weapon) will cause AV's if you change camera angle.
Well I agree that this sounds much like a mod even if it would be nice to be in 1.3 final. Anyway this is what i was thinking of:
-Not stealthed but harder to target with some rockets (in one of the first SP missions S. said there were some units over a hill or something like that, sentrys)
-An escort vehicle, long engage range to make it attack before the important vehicle arrives (constuctor, scav, tug... anything)
-Better armour or more hull & stronger firepower (3 guns) for the same purpose as above (an escort vehicle is useless if it is blasted away immidiately)
-Powerfull mines & scout behaviour so when it flees because of to much damage it will destroy any chasers and it will not lead them to the important vehicle.
Is it an idea?
I suppose so but I think arm it up more, otherwise it really isn't an effective ship as it is, possibly in the beginning but you might as well recylce them when the other ships come about
I shall try to put a couple of guns on it or even a cannon on and see how it goes.
Putting a cannon on it isn't that hot of an idea DVE.
Look at the warrior.
1 Cannon,
2 Guns,
1 Special,
1 Shield.
now look at your sentry with a cannon:
1 Cannon,
2 Guns,
1 Special,
1 Shield.
The only difference is slightly different health/ammo numbers, differnt initial weps and different look. Pointless...
Even add a 3rd Gun, instead of 2 sounds better.
I like some of the ideas for Sentries that others like Slaor have brought up however.
OK AP how about this:
4 Guns
1 Rocket
1 Special
1 Shield
Or this
4 guns
1 Cannon
2 Rockets
1 Special
1 Shield
The thing is to make the thing useful, not to keep retiring it as soon as the action gets hot and heavy, otherwise why not speed it up at least to the equivalent of the ISDF scout, I will try the 1st and the second config as ee what it is like
No. The sentry will keep its hardpoint configuration. I will not accept a sentry with a rocket/cannon/more guns whatever. If you're going to do that, might as well not do anything to the sentry.
FE made it useful by increasing its HP and adjusting the guass weapon. Thats a very simple change.
Wasn't there a maximum of 5 HPs? Anyway, I tried 3 gunned sentry and they are perfect (well exept that the whole main body just dissapeared). They are also quite effective against tanks (if you are a good strafer), also I placed a few of them (6) in a map with a turret defended base, turrets (3) were overwelmed, even if you make them have a bit of a lack of armour (wich they kinda have now) if you yourself form a distraction in a heavier unit (combat mode warior) those sentries are very powerfull as support fire (wich could also be considered tipical for escorting as if the enemy is attacking the important vehicle it's more important to kill than to have tough armour). I admit that these tests were early in-game, but I didn't fix the ammo loadout & recharge yet (0.5 of the original extra to keep the amout of shots the same) so I depleted it pretty fast and they also wern't armed with gaus.
I can really recomend this, little need of futher changes to the odf unless you are seeking perfection.
I agree with Speedy and Sloar, no additional gun/cannon/missiles :x it would change the essence and nature of the Sentry :D (and theres already plenty of choices for that breed of ships :roll: ) .
I've looked at improving it's mine-laying abitily and I have come to the conclusion that the seeker mine's rof is good as it is, but it's doing virtually no damage and with little chance of hitting a target in the first place, the seeker mines need to be imporved quite substantially to be effective (dramatic damage increase, and boosts its homing range and speed).
I think that with minor tweeks(great regeneration), along with improved Seeker Mines and a Stealth Field [red field] special, the Sentry would then be both interesting to play (offering [sneaky/guerilla] more variety in gameplay) and remain different (with less direct firepower [no cannon, missile, or motar]). :) :-) :-D
i could make the guns cannons with plasma and almost infinit health
and ammo
DVA - your suggestions are OTT. Minor tweaks would be far more appropriatte.
Heh, this is getting ridiculous, next I'm expecting to see a topic on how to make the lancer better. :shock:
Nothing wrong with a civilized discussion among gentlemen... :)
I don't like seekers... they're either too easy to avoid or the darn Sentry backs right into it's own seeker...
This might be evil... feel free to abuse me if it's a dumb idea.
Will they use JAX?
-Av-
"Do you know which paramerter to include in the fvsent.odf to make it stealthy in this particular way?"
It's a fairly late addition so am not entirely sure of the actual ODF settings involved. Tempest told me about it and doubtless it's in the changelog - will dig it up tomoz.
You can use:
[GameObjectClass]
...
isStealth
To make it non targetable and such unless its in line of sight.
OR
DeployableClass]
...
isStealthDeployed
To make it the same way but only when its morphed.
Cheers mate :)
Hmmm, minor changes to the sentry. I noticed that the sentry has its own unique aiName, just like the Msl scout. I think if the SentryProcess ai was more aggressive in its fighting style, however it will still use its special at times, just not so often as it currently does since thats what ends up killing it. That may give it some use when told to attack stuff, ai or human. Giving it Tank ai would mean that the sentry won't use its special and it would just agressively fight with its guns.
Let us remember what we are trying to acomplish here. The scions are my favorite team and I agree that I rarely use the sentry. There was no use for it. The purpose of this post is to give the sentry a use. Adding weapons not only completely changes what the sentry is and unbalances things... but it also still doesnt give the vehicle a purpose. It will just end up trying to take the warriors use.
The slaor had the best idea. There was a purpose added there by making the invisible on radar. You can use it in early game to do some sneak attacks. Then in the late game it still has some use. More powerful units are slower and can be intercepted on the way to the base. A few sentrys could be sent to the base undetected then distract the enemy so they don't watch their radar while titans come in or while you put archers into postion near the base.
With stealth the sentry is now useful. For sneak attacks and for sneaking up and distracting the enemy while better forces come in.
Lastly, the sentry with radar invisibility kind of fits the whole scion beliefs. You know, like quick, stealthy, sneaky attacks. Scion units in general aren't quite as well armored, but tend to be quicker than the isdf. Just look at the mauler. Well you know what I mean.
Anyway I think invisibility on radar would be perfect and people would actually use the sentry then because it would have a purpose.
why do u have to give it a use?
You don't mate, just drive ya chainscout.
What's wrong with 3 guns, less health (2/3), greater regeneration speed and detect range (both engage range and that other thing)? I retried them with all those changes and they look perfectly balanced now (useless when attacking alone or in small groups, turrets would blast them away)
Besides, not even mentioning that making sentries stealthy would be in contrast with the story-line as I said above, the GT will maibe first destroy a sentry but then target your harder units, doesn't seem to have much use as a distraction in late game this way. And if you want them to be a distraction you should make scouts, cheap, detectable, useless.
BTW does anybody know how it could have happened that the sentry .xsi I remade with new HPs didn't show the main-body frame in game? Is there a frame limit or something? It looks much like a wrong lod
Something else strange: in 1st person view I see only 2 laser pointers on my sentry even though it shoots 3 ion bullets as it should, the 3rd laser is located high above me in front, what happened here???
I think I remember once seeing in the maps/mod board that you can only have 2 hardpoints at one time.
IMO, Sentries should be able to outrange turrets.
Hmmm I think why bother then? Either stealth it or add a rocket piont to it and remove it from the Factory, rename it Scout and leave it at that because, as it is it really is nothing at the moment, just an extra unit to fill up the numbers
Anyway, I don't think it is OTT I totally disagree and I do accept, indeed condone extra rocket hardpoints and extra guns
still how about this
2 guns
1 rocket
1 special
1 mine
Yeah, useful configuration to equal the ISDF scout, add some speed to it as well
Oh Yeah Ice, and what essence does the Sentry have, getting its arse kicked?
I will except's Tempest's Suggestion though, if it is left the same as it is then when it morphes it becomes stealtheir then OK but , if it becomes stealthier then it should go faster, not slower, i.e: normal mode, fast, stealth mode: even faster
I can't agree with you, it would change the sentry to much. 3 guns work very nice, but the main body dissapears.
A real 'sentry' guards things ...
for AI behaviour Sentries should have a large engagerange.
For human use, I'd support very low radar signature
and give it prox mines as default or improve seekers.
3 guns would be abused if it even worked, such a huge
advantage in IonII or gauss modes.
Everything engel says strikes me as stupid.
Just my opinion by the way..
If you make it weaker (health) it won't be overpowered with 3 guns, the rest is already suggested. How did you want to make the difference between human and comp use? Just give it a better radar.
Quote from: SpeedyIMO, Sentries should be able to outrange turrets.
Well, they do, when you change to IonGun II.
Per Pandemic, the Sentry is a support unit during open field combat. They're supposed to be fast, agile, turning on a dime (or biometal blob) to draw enemy fire away. If I were to tweak this bugger, make it throttle a little bit faster than it is now. It's big body/butterflywings/collisionbox compared to a TBolt should balance out hitting it better to compensate for its new quickness. Ya know, "Fly like a butterfly, sting like a bee."
EDIT: And yeah, I agree, make the seeker a little more useful. :D
giving them starting jax can be better...
but err i find scout to do the sentry job better... at least ATM
draw enemy fire - scout is small.. more agile then a sentry and faster
support in battle:
1.u get targets from a scouts
2. he got stronger wepons (arc cannon, quill/fang, sonic blast [for light def units])
and 3. they cost less :)
That's the whole point in changing the parameters. Besides, how usefull will jax be when used by the AI? This is something to keep in mind, I think I'll stick with the 3 guns and changed parameters to make it an escort vehicle (but a better mine is also a really good idea).
Well I always though the Sentry should have been like a "stealth" unit. I think everything about it is fine (armement wise), and I would just make it not show up on radar, unless targeted by a scout.
I think there is a way to dampen its signature. This would make it invisible on radar unless you have a clear line of sight. It would act like a deployed turret. Check the bottom of the changelog for more information. This was one of the last changes made before 1.3 was publically released.
Wasn't that already mentioned?
It may have been Huscar, so much garbage messing up this place, that I sometimes just scan over posts (and I mean garbage from both sides of every debate that goes on around here).
I noticed the Archers are like this now too. The Sentry I think would be a more useful unit if it's only "special" characteristic was that it was radar damped.
IceWendigo is working on this guys. Both he and I will most likely testing out a modified Sentry this coming weekend (I hope).
At this point, I would like to quote the BZ2 Strat Guide regarding the Sentry
QuoteSentries possess more armor plating and speed than does the ISDF Thunderbolt Scout. In fact, the Senrty is one of the fastest units in the Battlezone ll universe. Ideal for early rush attacks and hit-and-run strikes, a swarm of Sentries are excellent tools for taking out Scavengers, Thunderbolts, and APC's. Upgrade one or two Sentries with Lockdown gun. Next, fly toward the enemy base, using the new tool to prevent powerful ISDF units like the Atilla and Gun Tower from firing back. Bring in heavy-hitting vehicles to take out the " paralyzed" ISDF units.
Good post bzzerker.
On that note, how about ;
Increasing forward speed to FASTER than the scout,
but strafing far less.
We tried giving Sentries light armour in FE rev.B, but they
were just too good in human hands when given a shield too.
I still think 3 guns is too extreme!! That is 50% more
firepower...
Whaddya mean it's stupid Dirty Rooster? The Sentry, as it is is weak and inffectual as it is, it is only useful with other units, on it's own it's a nothing unit, not only that it was ME who suggested making it faster, along with others, so what if it has a cannon, what 's so bloody stupid about that huh? and also, if you bothered to read anything I SAID WAS if you don't wish to put cannons on it then simply leave the 2 guns, add 1 rocket point, keep the mines and the specials, make it as fast as ISDF Scout.
Then it is the equivalent of the ISDF Scout, and then at least it would be useful, so what the *Ammo* is wrong with that HUH?
:evil:
Besides adding more guns to it would make it actually useful instead of a bullet catcher
I've always looked at the Sentry as a mobile Turret, though the only time I really used them was in MPI, and that was just for variety. I think low\no RADAR sig. would be a nice touch. Then you could quickly deploy them to ambush sites around your base.
look, i dont think we should change units by giving them more / other wepons.. espicely a main one like cannon... sentries were made to be with GUNS not cannons...
look, we dont need to mod the units that badly, its just a patch.. not a mod ;)
and also... sometimes u gotta let go...
few people said its stupied already, not everything we come up with is great...
i dont think i saw any1 support the idea of a cannon (or maybe there was 1?) but all others ignoring.. maybe its just a bad idea.. not all our ideas are good and perfact... sometimes u gotta let go...
Yeah Yeah :x look just make the damn unit eqivalent to the goddamn ISDF scout , put a but a stealth on it and leave it at that then
It's true they have +50% firepower but I also gave them -50% health :-) . If you mess with them long enough they will be very balanced.
@DVE: The point is not only will it look to ISDF like but it would change the very nature of the sentry, maybe you don't care but others do.
Engel still writes stupid stuff.
Cannon or rocket on a sentry?? Duh... Not a Sentry anymore.
You reinforce my opinion engel.
I'd like to see a sensibly modified Sentry slotted into
the experimental 'vet' Recy by Aegeis so we can try it out.
Der Vampyr Engel - The idea of sticking a missile hardpoint on a sentry is even *stupider* than your cannon idea, if that's possible.
If you've bothered to actually check the racial weapons, you'll realise that *1* scion missile hardpoint is roughly equivalent to *2* ISDF missile hardpoints, not to mention the *huge* morphed damage potetial you're giving this vehicle should it cycle with swarm and gauss.
Take a good look at scion guns, you'll quickly realise that ionguns do *400* damage per second to scouts, whereas ISDF miniguns do only 220 to sentries/scouts. Furthermore, iongun2 does *500* damage to scouts, which is absolutely *huge*.
Going further in the tech tree, the gauss gun not only does more damage/second than the chaingun (400 vs 320), it is also instant-travelling, and significantly longer range, long range enough to edge kill turrets, which makes it almost impossible to escape from. Assault gauss, of course, is the scion equivalent of shadower missiles, serving a very similar function.
I'm of the opinion that the sentry doesn't quite have enough health, and that the only tweak that's the slightest bit appropriatte is a little boost to their health to compensate for the fact that they're such large targets.
This talk of increased firepower is stupid - they already have bucketloads of the stuff, if you bother actually looking at SCION guns as opposed to just calling any gun a gun..
Bottom live - scion guns are better than ISDF guns, scion missiles are better than ISDF missiles.
Excuse me for the strong opinions here, but DVE just wont give up.
Hey Dark Fox NO IT ISN'T STUPID, I SUPPOSE STICKING A ROCKET ON THE BLOODY ISDF SCOUT MUST BE EQUALLY AS STUPID THEN HUH?, And I am sure that you can simply tone down the power of the bloody rocket so it is not too powerful in normal mode then it becomes as powerful as the ISDF FAF, satisfied NOW? .
So it balances out, also you give the Sentry a Scion eqvialent of the ISDF FAF, alos maybe the Ion Cannon 2 does quite a bit of damage to the ISDF Scout BUT HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO STUPIDLY GOING TO SAY TO THEMSELVES" LET ME MORPH AND USE THE ION CANNON 2 WHILE I HAVE 2 FAST SCOUTS USING MY SENTRY FOR A BULLET CATCHER, ESPECIALLY AS I WILL BE GOING LIKE A TORTISE ON SLEEPING PILS'S, SO I CAN'T STRAFFE VERY WELL, CAN'T MOVE FAST IF I GOT ONE ON MY TAIL, STILL I GOT REALLY POWERFUL GUNS" :x YEAH RIGHT THERE IS A REASON SENTRIE'S MORPH WHEN THEY ATTACK A SCAVENGER, you tone down the power of the rocket, speed the Sentry up,and if you need to, turn the power of the ion guns in in normal mode down or in special mode, although why you would need to do something like that really escapes me,
Hey Dirty Rooster , it's called inproving the goddamn unit and it would have use, I don't particularly think any of youre suggestions are that witty either , just as bloody stupid, "but thst just my opinion"
omg DVE
1. chill
its democracy, your ideas sound ridicouls to all exept yourself, no1 will kill you for that but u can not expect us to like it
DF is one of the people that knows a hell of alot about units speed, armors and gun powers... he knows it all... i wonder if you do him a quizz.. he'll probably be the wisest...
now relax and try to understand your idea is not going to work
sometimes u gotta give up... this is one of those times
Let me enlighten you a bit about the power of combat Ion Gun, compared to ISDF guns. Keep in mind that an ISDF scout has 1800 HP at no-armor.
Damages are in HP/sec.
Ion Gun Ion Gun II Minigun Chain Gun
Range: 100 150 105 135
No-Armor: *400* 500 *220* *320*
Light-Armor: 200 300 160 240
Heavy-Armor: 20 100 100 240
Building: 20 100 100 300
Stasis: 200 300 160 160
Deflection: 400 500 100 100
Absorbtion: 20 100 200 200
And let me add on to that. With perfect weapon cycling, an ISDF minigun/faf can hope for 370 damage/sec on no-armor. Ion gun deals 400 without switching.
then you mght as well leave it as it is, because I an't really see the point in toning down the power of the guns, to me , that makes no goddamn sense, anyway, I shall agree to disagree and go my own way, I'm outta here