This is not a dig at 1.3 I just prefer to post here.
It seems to me that the range of all the weapons except the snipe on the pulse rifle is sooooo short. It's almost like i could get out and throw a stone the same distance.
Is there a gameplay reason for this? I cant think of any other reason. The graphics can handle a plasma bolt going further, the physics are mostly less than earth gravity so there is no reason there. Why do we have to dogfight in such close quarters all the time.
It would be nice to see what games were like if the projectiles could even travel at present day velocity's and distances.
Any thoughts?
Knight.
You can modify the ODF files to reach that effect. You'll essentially be creating a mod. But first, contact an experienced modder (not me lol) to learn how to not get bad assets. Then you can figure the rest out yourself with some time, it isn't real hard.
The upcoming EPIC MOD, with its extremely large maps and better scale along with all kinds of new stuff has WAY more realistic projectile distances and the like.
For the real time strategy element of BZ2 to function properly, everything has to have a short range. Every aspect of BZ2's dogfighting has been finely tuned to fit into its RTS hybrid state.
yeah i guess you are right.
Is there a site for the EPIC mod. I'd like to see some screens.
Knight.
EPIC has an image gallery and a public forum at www.bz2md.com :)
~TS~ -- Pimpin' MODs since Jan, 02.
Gamedesign of most games, including BZII, are dependent on PC power. This game, and BZ1, were made on PC's of the pre-PentiumIII and early PentiumIII era. This includes other factors, such as memory bandwidth and graphics of the time. Large gameworlds using far-reach ordnance could have been possible, but could have been limited to those hardware and software. Howitzer-type units would be the closest thing to what you are referring to. And additionally, this engine was based on earlier engines, such as Interstate'76 and subsequently, BZ, where the combat design was based on "close-combat" battles. Now with better understanding of the game code, as well as the evolutionary progress of computer hardware, game modifications such as those aforementioned, will certainly take advantage of the modding power of this game, which already took advantage of large worldmapping in the first place.
My 2 cents.
If weapon range were increased in bz2, strategy would be ruined. It's there for strategic balance, and it's just right as-is IMO.
Only if you increase weapon ranges beyond what can be actually seen...
Stock BZ2 speeds and ranges are such because the game is designed to work at about 400 metres visibility range, I'm guessing mainly to limit resource usage - there's not much point having weapons that range out much beyond that, AI might be able to use them but player can't. Mechwarrior eg: has visibility of a few km and BIG units that can be seen at that range so PPC's at 1800 metres are relevent.
When you take visibility to eg: 4km, weapon ranges can increase accordingly, but in order to make it balanced and fun you also have to increase unit speeds and scales etc.
I guess you are right guys about the balance. it just seems excessivly close at times. Misiles, plasma and lasers just petering out after what seems like only a stones throws distance.
The screen shots on EIPIC look great with the long view distance. it will be itneresting to see how it effects game design.
Knight.
"The screen shots on EIPIC look great with the long view distance. it will be itneresting to see how it effects game design."
Well you can have proper airforce for starters...
Ya i think miniguns is only 100 meter now wich bother me a bit, but well we complain we cant run fast enuff to escape but want longer range weapon!?!?!? LOL
Just need some adjustment in my game play to get used to it i guess.
miniguns always have had 100m range, they can edge-kill at about 110m, as usual
Just for note, the reason I think the visibility ranges are so short is because BZ2 still performs its TnL calculations on the CPU and there is a limit to how many can be processed in one frame. Just go into a map, set its visibility to 1000m (I have done this before) and drive around, mountains will disappear then reappear, whole buildings will vanish then come back, anytime the hardcoded poly limit is exceeded. That is my theory.
That strange cause i seem to not be abble to hit anything with miniguns over 99 meter, assault tank or pools wich i noticed that with. While like you said i use to hit at 110 metter.
What you mean by edge kill? Is there a way to shoot further? Cause i never had to do anything special.
lol what still weird is "thunderbolt" (difrent then the "default isdf" that u have as starting unit) has 180 minigun range...
and some newbs puts them with the default isdf - and im sure they dont know the difrence.. i just take that and outrange all their base and getting called cheater :lol:
by 'edge kill' I mean using the binding boxes of the 3d objects to hit them. BZ2 draws range in the targetting window from the centre of your ship to the centre of theirs. Weapons fire from the hardpoint of your ship to the 'edge' of their binding box, (the outside of their ship). As such, obviously, you can often hit with a 100m range weapon despite the fact that the centre of the enemy ship is over 100m away from the centre of yours.
Pretty straightforward really, but ya, a few people call that 'edge killing'
Yeah, WTF is up with 'Thunderbolt' and 'Default ISDF', these damn nubs dont know the difference which is what pisses me off. I always have to tell them ...
Anyways, 'Thunderbolt' should have its name changed to 'DM Scout' seeing as its odf name is 'ivscoutdm'.
its quite funny.. i dont even know what they did it for...
u SHOULD use the same scout in strat and the same in a DM
and why 180 range? - some1 was drunk that day...
and the thunderbolt also moves like a drunk guy - slower and less ammo but LOL the range!!
Strange thunderbolt was faster in 1.2 and had similar range anyway thx for explaining edge kill. I didnt know you could shoot a bit further that way.
> Yeah, WTF is up with 'Thunderbolt' and 'Default ISDF', these damn nubs dont know the difference which is what pisses me off. I always have to tell them ...
How are they going to know if no one's told them? Its no reason to get pissed off, heck, its not even in the manual.
yeah! and how come scion 'drones' are called 'scouts' in thebuild menu?
theyare DRONES, not scouts...and the 'empty' version should be called 'simple drone'...not 'empty scout'...for scions anyway.
TBolts and Drones serve the same function in their respective army, i.e. recon & scouting (including high radar fences)... so that's most likely why they are called as such in the unit lists. We could always rename them I guess.
re: edge killing. This really only becomes a strategy when you're fighting stationary AI units. For example, assault miniguns in turrets have a range of 150m. It is possible to park up 151m away from an AI turret and it will not fire at you, because it thinks you're out of range, despite the fact that you can hit each other just fine.
As for scouts/drones - who really cares? Jesus...
the name doesnt realy metter and phaser - chceck again..
its easier to hover with defaul isdf rather then thunderbolt
maybe the forward speed of the thunderbolt is increased but strafes / backwards is decreseed compared to default isdf
if im not wrong laser range is 120 while in scout head to head u can shoot from 123 and it'll hit... (just e.g for "edge kill"...)