Editting in 1.3 involves starting the editor program, do your thing to a map, save your work, exit the editor, and then test your changes in the gaming environment. This is extremely inconvenient even if all you want to do is develope an IA or SP map.
No dll's will work in the editor environment. Using Crtl E to exit the editor like you did in 1.2, only leaves you in first person mode while the AI is dead and any dll is not activated at all.
I think if the editor had everything from BZone.exe but the network code plus a modified shell to accomodate the lack of a network, then a proper testing environment could be acheived.
What would you do to make the editor more effective WITHOUT putting it back in the game?
Exactly what you suggested, that's what I'd do. But I don't think you'll need every thing-net code. Ya don't really need the mission briefing part or the user log on. I'd really like undo capability even if it only went back one action.
The only thing I feel the current 1.3 editor is missing, is (as you stated, DS) the ability to run a dll.
I am sure Nathan will be able to fix that for the final 1.3
Until then, I am using the 1.2 editor for specific dll testing and lots of debug messages to the console and messagebox when I am testing in 1.3
~/bz2edit.exe" mymap.bzn -useDLL
That should be a good fix for mappers, at least.
I agree with DS, it would be best to have the original engine without MP capability but all other functions intact. This would allow SP / IA experimentation and general, all around fun.
Nathan didn't kick out editor versions anywhere near as often as patch versions, making me believe there's some work involved in creating them.
-Av-
Not much work, he was focusing on the main engine rather then the editor.
Still...there should still be the abilty to edit stuff in Single player / Ai. Other wise its much much harder to test all 'scenarios'. This will be very important in FE where the balence between what a human being can do and what the map is like will be delicate to say the least. Man its going to be hard to balence the EDF mission 'in to the fire'. All those cerberi with 1.3 aiming ! argh!.
? what's the problem JWK? if you could have a button "turn dll on" that would be great, what's the point in this "chain testing"? You can run any map from the editor so for this debugging just leave them out of the pak an put them back later. If I didn't get something please tell me what the point is.
Except for the dll thing I think the editor was quite improved (if I get it to work correctly :) )
The biggest reason the editor was seperated from the game was to prevent online multiplayer editting abuse.
However, multiplayer maps still need to be tested.
What I am suggesting is the programmers allow multiplayer maps to function in the editor program without any networking, so that single step testing from editor to game can be done.
I like the idea of making changes to a map in developement and test the changes all in the same program without having to exit one program and start another.
Extensive testing with more players requires you to exit the program and send the other players a copy of the map anyway, so online editting is just redundant in my opinion.
I'm not knowledgeable about the editor; I've never used it. I've used stuff created with the editor: FE and MP maps, so I've enjoyed products created with the it.
So long as multiplayer strat games are kept cheat free, I guess the editor should be as feautureful and convenient as possible. But that's an important condition, though I lack the knowledge as to how to achieve that.
maybe this post is just stating the obvious...
DS do you mean an editor with online option? That might be nice... but it shouldn't be possible to log in with it on a normal game so that might get tricky.
I honestly don't understand why you can't just put a instant.dll on any MP map and test it that way? Is that really SO hard?
As for what I would fix, I'd bring the sound up to par with the game and fix that little Nav problem as well as the ability to run dll's.
Quote from: HuscarDS do you mean an editor with online option? That might be nice... but it shouldn't be possible to log in with it on a normal game so that might get tricky.
I don't understand where you got this idea from. I would like to see a testing environment for everything except online use.
Editting online is where the abuse started.
I want to every every possible DLL functional in an isolated testing environment directly connected to the editor program.
Using 1.2 FE my children get enormous pleasure from
playing Instant Action with all the cheats on, and
dropping new units or buildings onto the map to
help in the fight.
Can't be done in 1.3, so they
will not play 1.3
I fear this shows that the editor in 1.3 should be
improved to run missions,
however since in 1.3 now multiworld only kick in when
someone else joins your game, it might be an easy thing
to link EDITOR with NOT-MULTIWORLD, i.e. disable it
when multiworld is activated.
With such a system the editor could be reintegrated with
the bzII.exe as before.
No DS I mean an editor that allows you to play the dll from the point were you push a certain button and the option to make others log in to your editor with the editor in order to test an MP map not play it, so it would bassically be another game with editor everywhere and using exactly the same files but still uncompatible, I though you was saying the same but appearently I was mistaken.
DR, The risk is far too great to even consider that an option.
ds, Fine then use the mpi.dll for maps that will end up in the MP folder. I agree that the editor could probably use some kind of "quick shell". I might even look into doing one myself.
I quite agree with BZZ any notion of placing the editor back into the main game program again runs the risk of a hacker doing what ever it takes to edit online.
Keeping the editor seperate from the game and any online options is a must.
However the idea of an editor with a "safe" testing place without having to exit the program is very cool.
Oh yes and you should be able to save the map to the what ever folder the game program prefers. ( I think this already works)
The bzeditor is simply compiled to run the /noscripts /nodll options should take all of 2 minutes to chagne that, so dont sweat it.
Yes but sometimes it might be usefull to turn the dll on when you want it, and not from the beginning.
How about something similar but easier to do.
Firstly, the editing for single player should be exactly the same as it was in 1.2
Secondly, players do not mind if someone edits an MPI or a DM, infact. People LIKE it, as stated by others its 'fun' to have team mates going up against large armys or having a cerberi rec or cool things like that.
But, it is unacceptable to to have editing in Strat games, because then subtle cheating can occour.
So, the solution is to have one exe or whatever for Strat games on MP, and another for single player, Mpi, Dm, etc.
Best of both worlds, everyone happy. Problem solved. The only question now is 'how do we impliment this?'.
Noooo, of course I wouldn't mind if someone just puts 30 attilas around me, that is so much fun with the lazy 1.3 dogfighting ability :x .
That point doesnt even make sense.
Hey!! this is MY topic and you guys are turning it into trivial pursuit.
Fishbone or somebody please closed this topic!
I feel everything useful has been said here.
As you wish...
-Av-