When you fire either guns or cannons in the titan why do the cannons themselves protrude from the back of the head from the recoil?
And why dont titan weapons converge on a target? Walker cannons are about as close together and they converge. Is it because titans have less range?
I would label this :
(minor tweak) Titan cannon animation.
I think that the cannons should converge on a target. It is a simple enough tweak to make.
EDIT : Well spotted
You mean noone else has ever spotted this? :shock:
I never noticed that the ARC doesn't converge, possibly because it's a 'salvo-type' weapon? I mean, some ordnance is meant to converge (bullets, shells, beams) and some isn't (rocket salvo from Treaded Rocket Tank). I think the Titan is deadly enough the way it is... :)
The cannons are suffering from "Ken-itis" as far as the animations. He fixed the recoil animation code but couldn't do much about the actual structure of the models. In the case of the Titan not enough room was left to prevent the models coming out the back when recoiling.
-Av-
I believe I can be of assistance in the recoil protrusion area. Unless someone has already done so, I have a slightly modified Titan mesh that is fixed to eliminate that little problem, which I would gladly provide to whoever needs it.
Have you ever really needed arc in a titan to converge? Arent either you or the thing your shooting at going to die in about 30 seconds anyway? Also, does it happen with all weapons? cause that could be a problem...
There is only one really important reason they need to converge and thats because if its an AI titan and you are off somewhere else baby sitting some other AI unit the titan can be easily distracted by a single pilot since the cannons are too far apart for the titan to hit the pilot, the weapons fire right past the pilot.
All weapons dont converge when used on titans.
apcs your effectively too n00bish to understand pilots......like most other n00bs....they get angry when I waste pulse shots on a recy or building.
for the last time: PULSE DOES ZERO DAMAGE TO HEAVY ARMOR.
ZERO
NADA
NOTHING
it doesnt even 'help' regeneration or anything.
and arc canons........I would prefer to have that nice 1 meter spread to hit my targets at 200m...besides, AI pilots wont attack other titans, and for a pilot to use lets say rocket launcher and attack a titan would mean he would get hit by the blast. besides that, its stupd.
but ARC has a spread in itself. just look at the way each 'laser' bounces around. it covers at least one square meter on average.
What he said was that you could distract an AI titan with you pilot while another unit kills it...
fox, im not so sure because we got a fac to 0 health and 3 pilots pulsed it and we killed it...
either there was a lil lag with last chain shot or pilot pulses realy did get it...
(1.2 though)
and its preaty clear apcs was talking about distracting it and making the titan useless
I do a lot of distraction on guntowers. Heck, I distract an entire base just by pulsing someting, when I'm on top of a guntower. It's probably made that way intentionally for strat purposes.
Quote from: AcerWhat he said was that you could distract an AI titan with you pilot while another unit kills it...
Exactly.
And i also know that pulse does ZERO damage to heavy armor, you dont have to be right in front of the titan to be between the shots either.
@ Fox: Why so insulting? apcs is right that this does mean an issue: I don't think it's a bug that has to be removed, but it definitely has got some kind of effect on the gameplay when a single pilot can pull all of a Titan's attention on him while a scout or the like can meanwhile easily kill that Titan without getting a scratch.
couldnt you just give arc a little damage around the beams to no armor? Not much, but emugh to kill pilots easily? It would probablly be much easier than making the cannons converge.
How about this, we give ARC splash damage of 1M when it hits the ground.
Sorted.
And The fixed animation sounds perfect.
Quotefox, im not so sure because we got a fac to 0 health and 3 pilots pulsed it and we killed it...
Zero.
Nothing.
No damage.
Not even 1 damage
Not even half a damage.
Not even a bit of graffiti.
Quote from: Jwk the Hemp MonkeyHow about this, we give ARC splash damage of 1M when it hits the ground.
Sounds great, sort of like an electrical discharge. :-D
But what if the titan had quill or maybe sonic? Also what if the pilot was too close to the titan so the splash damage wouldn't hurt?
Ok since you are all wondering why on earth a titan would have Quill here is a hypothetical situation, say the enemy just sent the titan AT stab or Plasma cannon and that your Overseer Array just got destroyed and you only had time to rebuild the Antenna not the Overseer and that the titan had a lot of ships passing through it's area and you didnt want it to be stuck with AT or Plasma. 8)
well, qull has a 'bit' of spread...and sonic does damage to the ground...and plasma...wel....lol....
sorted
Give Arc a 1m splash damage when it hits the ground. The titan still looks cool, and keeps its 'heavy locked cannon ' affect.
as i said, sorted.
Quote from: PhoeniX-FlamEfox, im not so sure because we got a fac to 0 health and 3 pilots pulsed it and we killed it...
I have to wonder about that myself because back in an IA game in 1.0 about 3 months after i started playing BZ2, one of my AI pilots decided to attack an enemy extractor (no idea how or why) and I sat there thinking,"Damn that poor bastard will be there forever." But when I came back to the extractor I'd say about an hour later it was in deep yellow about 3 SP stabs away from red, and I was the only thing going past it. Of course I did have a few archers running around on the cliffs next to my base from time to time (this is alien dunes BTW) but i think they were too far away from the extractor to attack it. :s
thats realy weird.. i could almost be sure we pulsed a fac to death...
can a bump do any dmg?
say a tank coming in very fast and getting stuck in it?
No, bumps don't do any damage either.
When this happens it usually turns out to be pulse stabber or fireballgun passing by the factory, but sometimes it's explosions.
well if you crash into something you get hurt, so it could be the same with unmoving obyects. I know once i crashinto a gt with a mauler, almost killed it, then died, but the mauler exploding finished it off :D
Ok I just measured the titan's Y arc and the closest to it it's cannons will hit is about 35m away.
cant the titan just run over anything in that range?
No the AI is too stupid.
then couldnt the ai be made smarter? I know that sav class units (furys) automatically move over pilots which automatically kills them. Would it be really hard to program that into treaded units also?
If you have ever been ran over by a treaded unit you will notice that it rarely kills you unless it's moving full speed.
perhaps that should be changed
How about just leaving the titan weaker against tiny units at short range?
After all, it's high vantage-point is a huge advantage for defending your service trucks, why not leave the weakness in there too, rather than demanding changes for just about every merit or flaw in the game?
Well your right about the high vantage point and I guess the impact sphere or whatever it's called will still catch the cannon ordnance no matter how close a ship gets, and anyway the beeping noise you hear when something is under attack will draw you to the titan pretty fast, at least it always draws me pretty fast.
But still were the non-converging cannons left like that for balance purposes?
i was sitting on the fac big door... chained to something like 2 % left or even less...
then me and 2 more pilots started pulsing it and it got down while i was in air...
might be the explosion of the tank though
Yup exploding biometal debris can damage buildings. I know so because I built a few hyper healers in my base......some custom enemy units charging at full speed towards my base got blown up by some nukes, their debris showering all over my pgens, and fac.......for a spilt second I saw the hyper healers heal all the showered buildings.
might be the tank explosion then... was funny to think we pulsed it to death though :P
I didnt mean to be insulting.....but Its jsut happened so often it gets on my nerves.
I prefer the titan to have the spread, gives it more of a heavy tank feel then a ship killer feel.
Quote from: FoxBladeI prefer the titan to have the spread, gives it more of a heavy tank feel then a ship killer feel.
It does doesn't it. :mrgreen:
While we're on the subject of titans I would like to see them have assault GUNS. Or would this raise a balance issue?
heh, emp stream titans...
Who actually uses EMP titans in a strat? For that matter most people dont use titans much in strat anyway, hmm wonder why. But is it possible to make titans use assault guns but use EMP in combat mode?
why would you want emp in combat mode? The main use for an emp titan is to make it so ships cant run/swarm you...or you could just go and disable the entire enemy base with a few, then send in the maulers...sonic maulers of course :lol:
We tried assault guns in the revb testing. It actually made titans significantly weaker.
I like EMP in my titans - stops those pesky scouts running away.
assult titans?? are u crazy? what weapon exactly will u give them?
i dont think any of you acculty used a titan in a real start... giving it assult making it almost completely useless
and just FYI, since ZST titans are being used with *lots* of trucks...
not much scion cmdrs and hard to accutly get a game going that scions cant drop base with few wariors but in plaza (good e.g) where scions cant secure all the pools so easily because its *almost* 3 base pools they need a titan...
Pheonix - guns and cannons are different things. We were talking about assault *guns*
Nice idea, but currently the AI will attack buildings and heavy targets with its 'guns' not its 'cannons' cause the guns would be assault and the cannons would be combat.
it would be marvellous if the ai could use both its weapons at one eh...
Quote from: Jwk the Hemp MonkeyNice idea, but currently the AI will attack buildings and heavy targets with its 'guns' not its 'cannons' cause the guns would be assault and the cannons would be combat.
That sounds right, stupid AI.
Quoteit would be marvellous if the ai could use both its weapons at one eh...
Rockettank AI *can*.
You should check zera angel's fancy scout for 1.2 if you don't believe me. I can't beat two of them on flat terrain, and they're damn AI scouts - they dodge, they shoot both their guns, they rock!
really? I had no idea the code supported that.
still logically every unit should use all it's assault weapons during attacks.
Quote from: Jwk the Hemp MonkeyNice idea, but currently the AI will attack buildings and heavy targets with its 'guns' not its 'cannons' cause the guns would be assault and the cannons would be combat.
Note that you can config units NOT to do that with whatever AI you choose.
the eternal secrets of the weapon mask :)
Actually weaponmask is only AI specific, all AIs recognise the WeaponAssault and IsAssault commands though. :p
mabey that shoudl change. Mabey you should be able to control the weapons that an AI uses more (i mean, you are the human...you willmake better judgements)...
not saying the AI should be totally self sufficient...but an AI Titan with assault guns should obviously fire its cannons aginast buildings and such.
Give the modderse more freedom, not the commanders though.
The way i see it. AssaultTankProcess is SUPPOSED to fire its first linked weapons only.
Using SupportProcess AI with task entries of:
attackTask = "AssaultTankAttack"
subAttackTask = "SupportSubAttack"
subAttackClass = "NNS"
will behave like AssaultTank AI, but one that auto-selects its weapons like 1.3 AssaultTank AI does.
This way you preserve choice, if modders want the assTank to autoselect its weapons, they'll simply use SupportProcess.
Zero, I have been trying out your scout in instant,
and find it strafes rather slowly, certainly not as
fast as enemy humans 'apparently' strafe. Is
this intentional??
An early AI scout which I made had high strafing
speeds but I was ignorant of the rocket tank
process at that time. These highly accelerative
AI scouts gave me more of an 'enemy human'
experience for my special AIPs.
Oops, I did all that in 1.2, maybe they behave
differently in 1.3PB ...
Yeah, that one i released on to TimeDisruptor was an early version I was messing around with in 1.2. I made it the best I could, but I have a better one collecting dust on my home PC.
I also made an AI modded Scout, Tank, and Mortar Bike for ver 1.3. The Scout and Tank now use the much improved SoldierProcess for their AIs, and are a nightmare to fight, not to mention that they move as fast as a human player does, and can take really cool jumps. These are waiting for the day when I can go through the tedium of making a custom recy.
If you wanted 'em for your own 1.3 projects, i'd have no problem sending 'em.
Hmm, that sounds interesting, any place you could post them up perhaps?
Im not that good at modding yet, but if you send me the units, i could make a custom 1.3 recyc that could be chosen from the menu and not give bad assets...i think :twisted:
1.3 Ais are up at [ www.bzuniverse.com/~zeroangel/misc_files/v13enhai.zip ] Mortar bikes aren't done (they arent as good at subattacking yet) but the scout and Tank will be a good chellenge.
I took a quick look at the v1.2 unit AIs i made a few months back, and for some reason or another, the scout uses scout AI again; i forgot why that is, as its vastly inferior to any other AIs; I didnt post those ones up yet.