What is the state of a possible Beta 2 patch 1.3 being worked on? I know these take time as all you programmers and modders do this in your own time (by the way I thank you all for all your time) but I heard whispers back along that there might be another release once all the feedback was posted.
There is a newer version being worked on. Several testers, including myself, are testing it every once in a while. I haven't heard from the main programmers in a while, so I have no idea what is going on. I think the programmers are busy at Pandemic. GSH stated not long ago that he was working 12 hour days to get a game finished, which would take up his time that he spends working on bz2. Hopefully we'll get some information after that game is released.
This is typically:
1. A very quiet time online as people enjoy the summer. Also, many many many online players are students that lose their broadband while home for the summer, and can't bring themselves to play on dialup... ;)
2. A very busy time for developers as they have to get ready for Fall gaming shows, Christmas buying season, and are usually already behind due to optimistic development schedules set by the publisher...
-Av-
Commando and Av are right, there will probably more progress on 1.3, but not now. Both Nathan Mates and Ken Miller are currently working to finish their current title, Starwars: Battlefront, which is due out this Sept.
Obviously with the addition of having to finish a game its no doubt that their work time is completely hectic and their free time is very short, they should be back and 1.3 should be getting worked on again when they return. :)
Starwars: Battlefront looks like a cool game based on what I saw. I'm definately going to purchase it, mainly to support Ken and GSH for their work on bz2. If I like it, that is an added bonus.
Yes, it should be a great game...what sounds bad about BF1942 style Starwars complete with loads of lovely vehicles, NPCs, and Soldiers out of 4 different factions. :D
Not to mention of course the supposed modability to come with the game, atleast as far as I know. (According to Ken this engine still uses good old ODFs and CFGs. ;))
If you look at one of the Developer Diarys you will notice a screenshot of a map editor that looks strangely familiar too. ;) (With some cool looking new features as well)
That would be awesome if a bz2 mod was made for that game. If it uses odfs and cfgs, it should be somewhat possible.
Awesome. I played the other starwars game for the X-Box and it didnt impress the pants off me, probably because its more of a deathmatchy console game. But if they're making a PC game BF'42 style, I bet you could mod the heck out of that. I wonder if BZ2 ODFs would work in it.
Enable edit onnnn :D
The main question is what model format does the game support. If it doesn't support the xsi version bz2 uses, the models would have to be converted to another format. Does it even support xsi at all?
I'm gonna start this into a new thread into OT forum since it really doesn't belong here. ;)
Well, given the outright lies about my involvement and knowledge of BZ2 design & development by people who should have known better, the inducement to return after this project is over is considerably less.
This community has made its bed, maybe it's time for it to lie in it. Forever.
-- GSH
GSH is the 1.3 patch we have at the moment all we gonna have, or are you going to release what you have done so far and call it quits
Cheers
[Edit] spelling mistake
If perhaps we were limited to playing the latest released versions of publicly relased bz2 patches online, (as is on lots of games), there would be lots of 1.3pb games, and testers and developers would likely have more pride in developing the 1.3 patch, and perhaps, a 1.4 patch. I see 1.0 games played more often than 1.3pb games.
That's because 1.0/1.1 is the version that came with the game.
Those games with the forced upgrades had that system planned and build in at the start, Battlezone II doesnt. Besides 1.3 is a beta patch, and there is a bug in the netcode that might discourage a lot of people. It has already been squashed in the priv beta from what I heard.
Quotethere would be lots of 1.3pb games, and testers and developers would likely have more pride in developing the 1.3 patch, and perhaps, a 1.4 patch
Highly doubtful, dealing w/ this community/working/and working on 1.3 has probably burnt out GSH, so I doubt a thousand players a day would convince him to continue. Nothing we can do to turn back time.
QuoteThis community has made its bed, maybe it's time for it to lie in it. Forever.
You win my award for the worst PR i have ever seen. It is just....just not *proffesional* to treat people like dirt, and then blame them when they get angry and make up excuses such as 'being blunt' or what not. But never mind details like that, I am one of those 'Vets' (que : spiting? yes? no?)
:lol:
QuoteYou win my award for the worst PR i have ever seen. It is just....just not *proffesional* to treat people like dirt, and then blame them when they get angry and make up excuses such as 'being blunt' or what not. But never mind details like that, I am one of those 'Vets' (que : spiting? yes? no?)
You really think words are more important then deeds, hemp? What a tool you must be. Its not "professional" to devote thousands of hours of labour and not get paid for it either, is it?
Get a grip.
Words *are* deeds.
LOL
words are hot air and nothing more.
Give it a rest hemp weve herd all this before give it up you are like a stuck record get over it.
QuoteBesides 1.3 is a beta patch, and there is a bug in the netcode
Bugger I can't use 1.2 i have to use 1.3 beta dosn't seem to affect me on LAN which is where I play, my online speed is to slow for me to join games I live in the backend of no where ( we only just found out about copper wire )
I can live with what we have got
Cheers
What bug? The --Joiner one? Is that the bug in the netcode?
Darnit. Who's been spreading lies and what have the lies been? Time to set the record straight and clear the air, I'm thinking. There's too much whining and BS here from some people here. A few bad apples and all that. Maybe it's time to clean out the barrel.
Quote from: GSHWell, given the outright lies about my involvement and knowledge of BZ2 design & development by people who should have known better, the inducement to return after this project is over is considerably less.
This community has made its bed, maybe it's time for it to lie in it. Forever.
-- GSH
QuoteIf perhaps we were limited to playing the latest released versions of publicly relased bz2 patches online, (as is on lots of games), there would be lots of 1.3pb games, and testers and developers would likely have more pride in developing the 1.3 patch, and perhaps, a 1.4 patch. I see 1.0 games played more often than 1.3pb games.
I doubt we will ever see an official 1.4 patch. I am personally surprised to see 1.3, even after being involved in testing it for two plus years. If there are any future patches, they will most likely come from the community, if someone can crack the bz2 exe for modifying. I doubt this would ever happen though, since we don't have that many people in this community that are that experienced with programming.
Quote from: CommandoIf there are any future patches, they will most likely come from the community, if someone can crack the bz2 exe for modifying. I doubt this would ever happen though, since we don't have that many people in this community that are that experienced with programming.
Plus, even if someone did crack it without legal/corporate approval and Pandi/Acti finds out, the cracker(s) will certainly be diving into hot legal waters (or lava). :D
Is bz2 copywrighted? If so, and someone can crack the bz2 code, then all we need to do is wait, until the copywright wears off.
Quote from: GSHWell, given the outright lies about my involvement and knowledge of BZ2 design & development by people who should have known better, the inducement to return after this project is over is considerably less.
This community has made its bed, maybe it's time for it to lie in it. Forever.
-- GSH
So you're punishing an entire community for the mistakes of a select few. With that attitude, it's no wonder so many people have turned against you.
Though I was sympathetic for all the abuse you and your creation has taken, it's damn near gone with the way you've been such a pissant lately.
It's about not getting respect and gratitude. If someone were spreading lies about you, especially after all the hard, free, long work you've done for them, wouldn't you be even a *little* upset?
There's a few snotty-nosed, whining, lazy, emotionally retarded, socially dysfunctional children with control issues here who take advantage every opportunity to draw attention to themselves by acting out their own personal issues and therefore ruin it for the majority of people here.
The majority of people here love BZII and spend hours making mods or experimenting with it and discovering even more new things about it every day. I'll be damned if I stand by and let a few kids ruin it for the rest of us.
Stone, From my understanding, the "abuse" actually started after the 1.2 patch was released. It was after the 1.21 patch (now 1.3) was started and certain things were leaked to or found out by many of clanners/vets that things really started to heat up and have gotten us to where things are today, a great mutual dislike of each other from both sides with other ppl sticking their noses in every now and then just to stir things up again.
QuoteThere's a few snotty-nosed, whining, lazy, emotionally retarded, socially dysfunctional children with control issues here who take advantage every opportunity to draw attention to themselves by acting out their own personal issues and therefore ruin it for the majority of people here.
[/size]
Like..er....Darkfox. Sure thing Red
I can understand why GSH would be upset. I'd be surprised if he wasn't, actually. But there's a fine line between being upset at a few people who have bashed him and his work, and outright anger and abuse towards everyone, be they supporters or nay-sayers.
I hope I'm not coming off as one of the nay-sayer types. I admire GSH for what he's done for this game, and I sincerely hope that he continues work on what I see as a great gift to the community. But his attitude, from what I've seen, is one of the reasons this community is in such a rut. When he jumps and bites anyone who makes even the smallest comment on the patch, and refuses to even consider what people have to say, I begin to see why there's so much hate going around.
In fact, I believe that it was arguments HE instigated with his negative comments and attitude that ultimately led to the departure of several members of the community that I believe were held in high esteem.
Quote from: Jwk the Hemp MonkeyQuoteThere's a few snotty-nosed, whining, lazy, emotionally retarded, socially dysfunctional children with control issues here who take advantage every opportunity to draw attention to themselves by acting out their own personal issues and therefore ruin it for the majority of people here.
[/size]
Like..er....Darkfox. Sure thing Red
What delusion of gradeur were you having when read that? And were do you get DF in it? If anything, I think that might be pointed at you.
QuoteIn fact, I believe that it was arguments HE instigated with his negative comments and attitude that ultimately led to the departure of several members of the community that I believe were held in high esteem.
dead wrong.
Deadscion didnt leave the community, he left this message board.
Lizard left the community because of those socalled vets that bashed on 1.3 like little whiny kids that got their favorite toy taken away.
Other people left for similar reasons like Liz.
So far only Deadscion left this board because of GSH and wiz. And I would say it was a very reasonable and commendable move. There was just too much bad blood in the broadband wires...
I do think we lost some valuable input by not having him on the bz2cp board but he posts on other boards I frequent, so its not too much of a deal for me.
besides, thanks to 1.3 beta we have a few more claners on the board. I think thats definitly a positive change being introduced in final instance by GSH. Think about it ;) In the end we are here because we love this game and want it to be playable in years to come.
He pointed me out because I left the 1.3 beta team and had an argument with GSH about the patch.
Turns out GSH has changed things to what I suggested since then, or so I'm told by the current active testers. Maybe I left for nothing, or maybe it took me and others leaving to make him realise something had to give.
Shame really.
(BTW I'm back, hi again you guys. Just had a wonderful vacation to Northern Ireland and York, can't believe how beautiful York is, I feel bad about living where I do now. :) Just finished going through the posts I missed... Wonderful to see that nothing ever changes around here.)
Just to be clear, I wasn't pointing you out, DF. Wasn't even thinking of you when I posted that, really.
Stone, as for GSH not listening to suggestions: Dead wrong.
So long as suggestions/ideas were presented logically, impersonnally, and did not cost inordinate amounts of time/energy, he was always open to them. Doesn't mean they would always be incorporated, but he was open to them. If you don't believe me, just ask Commando and GreenHeart. There was just so much of him to go around though.
And sure, we can have debates on gameplay, but first you need a solid A/V-free code base before you can address gameplay.
Probably doesn't really matter though because we'll all most likely be playing SW: BF by the end of the year. :-)
Well it is good to hear you were not typing about dark fox Red Devil, but do not fall into the niave opinion that everyone that disagrees with GSH is one of the said ignorent/ungrateful/etc etc people. I actually hate flying, and i think GSH was treating a lil bit too harshly, but that doesnt mean I think for a second that some of his behaviour was acceptable.
ANYWAY , lets get back to testing this public beta.
why o why didnt GSH and ken stick to their orignal idea about 1.3?
I think some people have made the mistake of thinking that since GSH is not open to their demanding something of him that he is not open to their input. Of course, if people continue to think they have the perogative to make demands, I'm sure that they will find that even their suggestions fall upon deaf ears.
I feel really bad for starting this thread cause of the comments being written. Sorry if its caused offense!?
I would like to see 1.3 carried on (whoever might choose to keep it going!??) There are some very clever people who do mods, progamming etc and I admire all of you. Ive played lots of the mods and maps and the game still grips me more than any other game on sale today and there are not many games today that will still have the appeal of BZII OR BZ1 some 5-6 years down the line!!
I'm sure Nathan was talking about me, because I pointed out that Nathan was hired when the game was mostly complete, and he was put on netcode (an arduous task within itself). Most of the "design" of BZ2 happened about a year before Nathan was even hired at Pandemic.
That is no lie!
QuoteI'm sure Nathan was talking about me, because I pointed out that Nathan was hired when the game was mostly complete, and he was put on netcode (an arduous task within itself). Most of the "design" of BZ2 happened about a year before Nathan was even hired at Pandemic.
That is no lie!
Nathan may not have been on the team at the
very beginning, but he was hired onto the project only a few months after Pandemic was founded. He was as involved as any other programmer on the game, as networking is not something you just slap onto the side of a game--it affects almost everything, in very significant ways. He and Brad had to convert the entire game from a peer-to-peer networking model to a lockstep model, a change with extraordinarily widespread impact. He became
quite familiar with the game during that process. Designers did a lot of stuff on their own, and I was fairly involved as the game logic programmer (and pseudo-lead). That does not, however, mean Nathan was off in his own little world, ignorant of all the design details.
Onto the design front...
The general outline of the game was developed fairly early, as with any game; BZ2 was originally intended as a logical extension of BZ1. The actual details of that design came together over the duration of the project, so Nathan was aware of the aspects that affected him. It's not like the designers come up with a final design document and that's the end of it. The "design" was somewhat emergent, as people came up with cool things along the way.
"Flying" was
not a designed-in feature, but a bug in the hover physics for vehicles with extremely high thrust. Thrust drops off with altitude, down to about 50% or so; vehicles with a thrust larger than twice gravity can remain airborne indefinitely. This exploit seriously affected game balance, making the Scout and Mortar Bike units much more powerful than they were meant to be. I simply corrected the problem, which seems to irritate a number of people. Deal with it, because neither of us are relenting. :D
The same goes for Turret Tank / Rocket Tank vertical aim; there was a bug in the AI control that prevented them from aiming as high as they were supposed to. I fixed that, and those units started working correctly for the first time. Wil
designed the Rocket Tank as an air-defense unit (among other things). The Bomber, of course, needed a bit of adjustment after that, but it seemed to be working okay the last time I checked (which was a while back).
Now, I admit that some of my experimentation early on in the 1.3 development process was... ill-advised. However, I think the current version retains much of 1.2's essential nature while correcting some significant flaws. Is it so hard to show at least a
little appreciation?
Wow, hi Ken. Great to see you posting here.
Yes, it appears Ken is indeed alive. :D
Hi Ken
QuoteIs it so hard to show at least a little appreciation?
You guys have my total appreciation and admiration.
Hang in there and keep it going
Cheers
Hi Ken.
I personally would like to thank both you and Nathan for your work on the 1.21/1.3 patch. I personally think it is a major improvement over 1.2, even with its bugs. With a few more fixes, such as the "FIXME: Treaded Unit Physics Have Gone Bzerc" and a few minor bugs, it will be nearly perfect.
Quote from: Tempest StormYes, it appears Ken is indeed alive. :D
Guess I should recall the search party :D .
Great to see they let you run free every once in a while at Pandi Ken. :lol:
It is NOT the real Ken..we want proof..say something...programmy...
I NEVER said flying was programmed in, just iit was there from the beginning (even in the demo). Never implied it, inferred it, or in any way directly said that.
I know when Nathan was hired, and it was after I was BETA testing the game. I do remember the design process BZ2 went through. I do remember the weekly questionaires that I fiathfully filled out, as a member of the Pandemic "hit team". I do remember many conversatiations with George Collins well before Pandemic was even a company (along with playing BZ1 with him, Jens Andersen too).
I sick to death of being called a liar and spit on by Nathan, only because I felt that flying should be an option for those that want to play with it. There still is NOTHING in physics that would indivcate that the craft would not behave in such a manner.
Ken? Here? Ok, I practically never stammer, I should not do so now, its just so... unexpected for him to post. Welcome around. Do not suppose you all at Pandi could use some code written for experimentation or something. Writing all my things is busy enough but I would love to do something that is actually used for once. :D No strings attached, just for fun, programming is life.
Ken, thank you very much for setting the record straight. OMG, that felt good to see your post...
Geez, OM, LOL, you sure are into it, aren't you? What a hacker you are... :-)
Gosh, we sure are serious and passionate when it come to BZ, aren't we? And that begs the question: Why?
Because it is the *best* and most realisitic experience available, bar none.
Notice that I did not say gaming experience. I think BZ is far more than a mere game. Games don't make you sweat or give you goosebumps or instill fear. BZ does. It is intense. I think that is why we are so passionate about BZ: Because it stirs up the passions in us.
Having said that, that means I am also very passionate about BZ. Anybody who wants to criticize the programmers will have to deal with me first because, dammit, I won't stand for it. I am really a nice guy and get along with most everybody, but I for *damn* sure won't stand around letting people belittle their efforts at trying to improve BZ.
These guys have *worked* their tails off to help us and we owe them *every* bit of gratitude we can muster. So even if they don't come back and continue working on BZ (and it *is* work), I'll still be here slapping them back if anyone wants to find fault with them.
If any of you still have complaints about 1.3, let's see *you* wade through 500,000 lines of incredibly complicated code and get it *exactly* right every time for *every* Beta. No takers? Hmmmm... didn't think so....
I've been playing the game, and reading the forums for 2 years now, and never felt the need to post until now. GSH and Ken, thank you for the work you did on 1.3! I love the changes that have been made and I personally think most players are more like myself than the idiots spouting BS whining about everything they dont get their way. Sad truth is, every game has its losers who want to use exploits to make themselves out to be great players when they most likely never beat the SP campaign without the cheats on :lol: The only changes I'd like to see is being able to use some of the advanced options available through mpi in ia. insane with smart trucks rocks on mpi and I think it would let people do so much more with ia missions than can currently be done. Other than that the only other change I would like would be smarter more aggressive service trucks for the enemy. I hate it when I send a dozen units into the enemy base and their 3 or 4 service trucks sit there as the power gens are destroyed then they futiley attempt to service the unpowered guntowers :?
Now heres a request for the whole community of map makers/moders.I like huge maps, ones that take 4+ hours to even stand a chance of completing. So how about some new maps, nearly Site_B in size but with multiple enemy bases massive defense laden bases that have to be destroyed etc. :-D Or maybe even a series of maps set up on a build base and forces, destroy enemy base then have undeployable recycler which must be escorted to an exit spot as massive waves of enemy re-inforcements start to arrive type scenario. Now I know this has been done before on a single FE map, but I'd like to see it taken further without FE since it's not 1.3 compatible yet, and have it continue on with another map set to start where one ended. Big request I know hehe and I have tried to do some mapping myself, but while I can handle the terrain and base design etc, I can admit I am totally lost when it comes to doing dll's and all the other things needed to do advanced missions :s
Smarter more aggressive service trucks??? Sheeeesh!
lol, with those kind of service trucks you wil *never* get into my base.
Anyway, its fantastic to see you post Ken, and more posting would be great. But flying and other such detials are not really what i focus on.
What i focus on is GSH's attitude to other people. In your post you quite clearly show the abilty to present an argument without making people righteously incandesent with rage. GSH has treated people like dirt, and literally started a 'spitting' compaine on people he did not like. It was unproffessional and quite frankly imature.
Of course i am greatful for his work, of course i am looking foward to 1.3 and what it can bring to the game, of course when 1.3 is finally released there will be far far more praise than critism, but until GSH makes up for his behaviour in some shape or form, i can only respect his work, not him as an indervidual.
Your last sentence sums up my feelings in a nutshell. :D
That was a decidedly un-Kenlike post in that it's more words than I've every seen come from him in one setting. :lol:
I wonder, is this a one-shot appearance or does this mean I can start bugging you again? :D
-Av-
Jwk and Stone, we know how you feel. now grow up and learn that people will not change just because you want to. deal with the situation.
Right now, I see 2 options for you, either you leave this board or stop whining.
I am getting really annoyed by this weird: 'oh he cannot behave but I am too lazy to prove that he cannot behave'. Your input on 1.3 is valued. But we are not here to discuss manners, ok?
message deleted by Fishbone
message deleted by Fishbone, dont test my patience.
I guess this while thing is more of a "cameo appearance" than anything, mostly to defend Nathan against the unnecessarily harsh criticism. Yes, he can come across as brusque online, but I think that's understandable after putting months of his free time into something and gotten continual grief for it. In fact, he's probably put in more work than I have (especially recently).
Writing off Nathan as a "hired hand" with no knowledge of the game design is a low blow. During 1.3, at least, he was as knowledgeable if not more so about the general intent of the design. Yes, there were things that people got used to, but they led to degenerate (in the mathematical sense) strategies. Now, I do understand concerns about balance and game length (and I share them). I'd certainly like to compress the BZ2 gaming experience while retaining all the enjoyment, but that's somewhat beyond the scope of this project. :D
(After things calm down a bit, I ought to work on things again, but I have other projects I need to work on as well. I sort of lost interest after a while...)
I am grateful for GSH's work and the amount of time he put into it. He's transformed BZII from a buggy game with a promising concept into something exponentially better, and I will forever support him and his continuing efforts in giving this community something to hope for.
That's the last thing I'm saying on this matter.
All I can say is: thanks GSH, ken, & everyone so far for your work on 1.3, and, I hope bz2edit is made to support dlls, and controltest doens't have a working function (it's supposed to make your craft move and behave like an AI), right? It doesn't work in bz2edit, I haven't tested it in bzone 1.2 though.
Dear Ken and Nathan, I would like to say that no matter what you do/did. I have always been behind you, hec I even sent a personal message to Nathan saying how much I appreciated his work as I hoped that it would help him make better about this community.
I really do appreciate you two working on this long and (at least for you) unccessary project and I will do anything to help make sure that it is seen through. For those of you who do have a problem with other people, please understand that we can not live up to each others desires and the way other people think we should live. Ken and Nathan have put a LOT of time and effort into this and although I understand that many of you may have personal problems with one of the two, there is NO use in holding a grudge no matter how right you think you are.
If I have a problem with someone, I would usually not tell them, but that's just me. Please I for one do not want to see any of these great people detered from finishing one of the best games in the world. So I beg of you to please at least try and put personal grudges behind you, for life is too short. Everyone should be happy and making war when there is enough already does not help.
Thank you for taking the time to read this post, I really appreciate it.
-James
I nomitate the above post for post of the year.
Why thank you, you are most kind!
:-D
-James
Well I payed my dues to this game also, and I have always appreciated everyone's efforts with both BZ1 and BZ2.
Truth is the truth though. At times, Nathan made it sound like he was responsible for the whole game design, and nobody should dare even enter in any contary opinion to his.
I understand why many people don't like flying, and I understand why many people do. It is not my opinion that the mere presence of the ability to fly limits any strategies, mathmatically or otherwise. It is my opinion that someone using cheap tactics can indeed accomplish a loss of viable strategies. As a rule, I did not fly in games, even though I was always quite capable (I can do more damage on the ground).
Buring the 1.3 BETA process, when this issue first came up, I voiced the opinion that flying could be rendered pretty much useless by improving the abilities of defensive units (closer convergance for GT's, turrets that can shoot straight up). If flying was to be limited, then it should be an option that was defaulted on (flying limited by default). Flying could have been easily limited too, by simply having a "auto-leveling slider". If you cannot get the craft perpendicular to the planet surface, then you cannot fly for extended periods of time. That stupid thrust damage is simply over the top. Nobody would ever design a craft that way. Damage should be dealt ou by the players themselves, and I know that is the original intent of the game designers (at least it was at the time). Not by the ground, or buildings, and certainly not by your own trusters. I won't even get into the service truck issue.
I too have spent thousands of hours in the development of this game (all the way back to the existance of only 6 single player missions). When ever a patch was being worked on I've only had the patched version of the game running on my system. I completed the single player campaign over 25 times. Not to mention that I am a designer with a physics degree (so it's Clarkson and not MIT, still a good school) that has been into strategy gaming since the late 70's (Avalon Hill Bookshelf Games), and even the earliest computer strategy games (Chris Crawford's 1942: The Eastern Front).
For simply stating an opinion, I've been called a lamer, cheater, and even lair by members of this community, with that notion championed by Nathan (oh yeah, and spit on). I am none of those things. Nobody will meet a more honest person than me. So of course to be dismissed out of hand, and have such aspersions cast against me is really gonna piss me off. Especially when I've been one of the biggest supporters of BZ/BZ2 since before the release of BZ1. For cryin out loud, my ex-wife throws the time I spent on BZ as one of the reasons for kicking me to the curb.
I did not reduce Nathan as a "hired hand", I meerly popinted out that he is not the all encompassing god of BZland.
Hi Ken, since you've stopped by, I'd like to add my note of appreciation for what you and Nathan have been up to with the patch. For me, the changes that have been made have helped keep this game interesting. It's easy to tell that the game rests on a much more solid coding foundation, now.
Although not a programmer, by any means, I think I can appreciate a little how much squashing bugs shades into virtually re-writing the game code. Once the process starts, there's no telling exactly how it will turn out, about all that you can be sure of is that it isn't going to be the same.
In any case, I look forward to seeing whatever else the two of you come up with down the road, should you guys find the time and energy to take this up again.
yeah...yeah..yeah...(said..matter-of-factly)
Good to see you ole' Kenny-boy...But remember, I still go that Idea for the "BZ 2-ified SW-BF" in my head....So. if it shows up in that lil-old project of yours someday..I want the kudos.
And I will stand up for Mower here...He is a Damned honest bloke...a bit on the ugly-side..but damned honest in his sorta St-Bernardish kinda way...
And yes..I still think I owe him the next rounds of Beers.
Hey MowerMan, how can you expect Ken to not to flame you/spit on you if you are doing the same back to him. Vise-versa if true also. I see a bunch of little vicious "tit for tat" circles going around. He is mean to me so I will me mean to him. Personally I am getting sick of seeing people call each other names, spitting, ect, ect, ect. A bit of diplomacy or if you can't swallow that then beat it.
I like the 1.3 patch alot becuase of of the fact that it is better all the way around once you get used to it. Exploiting a bug in a game is cheating to me bacause it follows my definition of cheating.
"Cheating is taking advantage of a bug/exploit/hack that you use to beat you non cheating oppoent and win.
My thanks to GSH/Ken Miller on working on this patch.
So you are essentially saying exactly what Mower man is. GSH fired the first shots, not the communuity, but thats blurred to oblivion now. I just want to get 1.3 out as quickly as possiable, as good as possiable and as MODDABLE as possiable, so that if people want flying etc etc, they can stick it in and others can Chose to download the mod *with* flying, or its closest equivlent within 1.3. I agree that 1.3 should not have flying as its default value. I personally hate flying, thing is, the OPTION to put some effort in and *make* it there (though odfs and alternative recs in mods etc) should exist. Other wise 1.3 isnt a patch, its a rewrite.
I think the short-and-dirty version of the message that's trying to be gotten across here is that if GSH stops firing the first shots, then things will be a lot cooler around here...
what part of "let it go" didnt you guys understand?