These are the newest 1.3 bugs / suggestions that I have come up with...notice that I have called it *version 2*....that is because when I believe I have found them all (all being a relative term), then I will make an accumulated list containing all the bugs that I have found...
Version 2 will have none of the bugs posted in version 1 in it, only the accumulation will have bugs from previous posts...
Remember, I am just trying to help, again, no flaming...
Here goes:
1)Constructor Bugs.
a. Constructor sometimes does not build at all when you tell him to build...and takes your money...
b.Constructor(so I am told) has red wireframe buildings next to allied buildings...
plz fix.
2)Empty Scouts when configured/changed via the menu 'inside' the recycler, cost 60 scrap...I don't know if this is on purpose but don't you think that this is a little ludicris? Especially when normal scouts cost only 50 when configured/changed...
My suggestion would be to change configured empties to 45 scrap (20 for the scout, 20 for the chains, 5 for the time)...
Hopefully this way they wouldn't get 'abused'.
plz fix.
3)Avengers do not cost any more configured than they do as default...I don't know if this is intended, but just so you know...
4)Empty Scouts definitely lag more than normal scouts...I do not know why, but please fix.
5)When you change a nav name inside the antenna/relay bunker, the name stays for all navs made afterwards, whether thats what you wanted the nav to be or not...
for example...
If I'm in the antenna, and I make a nav called 'repair' and place it on the dower...then when I get out of the antenna and go to place a nav somewhere else on the map (in my ship obviously) this nav will be called 'repair'.
plz fix.
6)When you configure/change a ship via inside the building(s) with 1.3, there is a bug. Lets say that you configure a scout with chains for example...if somebody destroys your armory that scout will still come out with chains...
I don't know if this is intentional or not, but it is probably unfair...
plz fix.
7)*Suggestion* If you have ever played the G66 mod then you will know what I am talking about:
I think that it would be very beneficial to BZ2 if you were to add the ISDF Puma and the Scion Dragoon to the arsenal of ships buildable in the game.
These ships are really fun as I'm sure anybody who has ever played G66 knows.
I believe that these ships would add a new (and fun) perspective to the game without affecting the overall balance of it...
Please give me your feedback on that one...
Well, that's all for now.
Once again thanks for all the hard work.
Adam :sleep:
Quotea. Constructor sometimes does not build at all when you tell him to build...and takes your money...
I've seen the same thing too. Unfortunately, a reproduceable case of this occurring is required. If you can get it to occurr on command, post the steps so GSH can see what exactly is going wrong. Does this happen for you in multiplayer or in single player? If it is in single player, do you have /multiworld enabled?
sometimes what happens is becuase bz2 responds every 1/10 of a second you can have the retical on a green spot press space and in under a tenth of a second move the reticle to a unbuildable spot. The cons walkes over and wonders how in the !@#$% he is supposed to build there. He get pissed and just decides to fritter your scrap away.
Yeah, I've reported that numerous times. That bug can also work to your advantage, I won't go into detail because I and I'm sure most, will consider it an exploit. I think it has been posted in the past though.
well here goes:
2. known, they considered it "balance issue" and since the public beta v1 isnt for balance issues it wont be changed imo - although I belive its a easy odf tweaking, and 45? your crazy, better off builing a scav and demolishing it for the 10 scrap (if you got 2 pools) and get a full
my suggestion would be 30 or even 25
3. its intended - no need to touch it anyways, its balanced the way it is
4. still not sure about it, empties get used later ingame --> more lagy anyways
6. intended and leave it that way too
7. I think they should stay in mods. dragon seems to be wacky and laggy and the puma. hmmmm I'm not too sure if 1 ship having both a cannon and a rocket is a good idea, maybe though - I still think they should stay in mods though
To be blunt about the Extra ships. Things are more or less balanced right now. Don't break it.
Quote from: Wingflier7)*Suggestion* If you have ever played the G66 mod then you will know what I am talking about:
I think that it would be very beneficial to BZ2 if you were to add the ISDF Puma and the Scion Dragoon to the arsenal of ships buildable in the game.
These ships are really fun as I'm sure anybody who has ever played G66 knows.
I believe that these ships would add a new (and fun) perspective to the game without affecting the overall balance of it...
Please give me your feedback on that one...
No need for them, the balance is decent as-is, and in my humble opinion adding those two ships would have a pretty big impact on balance. Imagine a Sabre with Blast that you can't escape (Shadowers).And the Dragoon completely obliterates the reason to build a Lancer, even though there never really was one. Plus Dragoons can have assault Gauss and combat Stingers at the same time, weapon switching with them would deal out a lot of damage. Well there's my feedback. :mrgreen:
hey, lets just add in furies and gorgons!!
lets not :D
APCs argues:
1)"Sabres with blast you can't escape (shadowers)"
--First of all, most scouts and tanks come equipped with Phantom anyways, shadowers are not that big of a deal by the time you could get a Puma.
2)"Dragoon obliterates reason to build a lancer"
--No it doesn't. First of all you can get lancers much quicker than Dragoons. Second of all the AI would use the Dragoon guns not the missiles, so they would have different uses...Besides...who pilots a lancer anyways?
3)"Dragoons would have guass and combat stingers at same time"
--If you are referring to the Dragoon in its unmorphed form...it is really not that powerful, guass and stingers is nothing compared to arc and guass or emp which you can get shortly after...
If you are referring to the Dragoon in its morphed form...it really would not be that powerful, especially since it would take at least 2 times as much damage morphed and morphed stingers are not really made for combat.
Adam
sorry didn't get to finish that post...had to go to class...
Anyways...
I think BZ2 is really in need of the Puma and the Dragoon. Pharoh, at least, agrees with me on this one.
Think about it:
BZ2 goes like this - Empty Scout - Scout - Tank
Isn't that quite a leap? From a scout to a tank? It's not like there's an alternative...when people start getting tanks scouts become obsolete for dogfighting..(at least in 1.3)
Scouts still get used, I agree, but usually for hit and run attacks on extractors, and that's in the late game where the tanks would be the most dominant anyways..
I think the best way to close the gap between scouts and tanks is the puma and dragoon ships. In my opinion both of these ships basically represent a (Scout + Tank). Kind of like a hybrid. It gives a transition step. This way you are not forced to upgrade with the team who goes tank.
A Puma and a Dragoon can be beaten by a scout, but can also beat a tank. Does anybody agree with me?
How many games have been lost because somebody beat you to a tank and mortared your base? There was probably nothing you could do about it....
I think the Puma and Dragoon would fix this problem, not to mention that are extremely fun.
dragons will still wont be used, its quite hard and odd to pilot them, and heck! who needs them when you can get a blinking warrior?
the puma, well - I never got in one, but am wondering, is that assult cannon or the AI is just somewhat 'smart' using rocket on units?
using a puma will take away rocket tanks in my opnion, not many people uses them anyways, and if I use them its for what the puma does only at a much lower cost and easier to control therfor IMO puma will cancel some other units
Dragoon is way powerful. Same for the puma. Better off without then.
Quote from: SkyNETDragoon is way powerful. Same for the puma. Better off without then.
What are you talking about...
I just listed above why the puma and dragoon are not too powerful...tanks are definitely better...
Quote from: Wingflier1)"Sabres with blast you can't escape (shadowers)"
--First of all, most scouts and tanks come equipped with Phantom anyways, shadowers are not that big of a deal by the time you could get a Puma.
yes, shadowers are a big deal. what about scion? dual shadower makes the msl scout useless, for not it can actually fight (blast) and it is cheaper.
Quote2)"Dragoon obliterates reason to build a lancer"
--No it doesn't. First of all you can get lancers much quicker than Dragoons. Second of all the AI would use the Dragoon guns not the missiles, so they would have different uses...Besides...who pilots a lancer anyways?
3)"Dragoons would have guass and combat stingers at same time"
--If you are referring to the Dragoon in its unmorphed form...it is really not that powerful, guass and stingers is nothing compared to arc and guass or emp which you can get shortly after...
If you are referring to the Dragoon in its morphed form...it really would not be that powerful, especially since it would take at least 2 times as much damage morphed and morphed stingers are not really made for combat.
ok, ai uses guns or missles somehow, but i forgot really. and dragoon uses ASSUALT guns when unmorphed, giving you a big advantage in doggies/killing pools when morphed. Only lancer advantage is blink and ammo, so lancer would be used even less. You can still fight WITH a great ability to kill pools, so you dont need to unmorph, not to mention how frigging jumpy they are!!
If you played in 1.2 more, with some experienced players, you would learn that scouts are very powerful, exceptional speed, great radar, can see a tank before your on their radar, much less in their range. Empties are also useful for a quick ride or killing pools. A scout has a sizeable advantage over a tank, enough that 2 scouts can usually tank out a full tank, or at least one will escape. Besides, balance is close enough as is, if you want it better make a mod.
Quote from: WingflierWhat are you talking about...
I just listed above why the puma and dragoon are not too powerful...tanks are definitely better...
Puma with blast+dual shadower is definitley powerful.
Dragon with assault gauss\ion gun+stinger msl is deadly. It flies fast too.
In 1.2, you might have been able to destroy a tank with 2 scouts, maybe even one...
But in 1.3, sorry, that crap does not fly...
Tanks own scouts...period...you of all people should know that...
I don't care about 1.2, and adding the puma or dragoon to 1.2 might make unbalanced...
As for your other comments about adding the puma and dragoon, it's hard to reply because you are hard to understand. Please use periods and commas and make your grammar more clear. I would like to understand your objections.
Wingflier
Uh, he IS using periods and commas.
Even exclamation marks! :D :lol:
Come on dude, he doesn't even capatilize after his periods.
I can use, lots, and, will, you know what I'm. Talk about?
Adam
My My isn't balance FUN?!
This is just the tip of the iceberg Wingflier....Balance was discussed early in 1.3 testing and became a massive disaster...why?
Because varying skills, varying playstyles(Single player, MPI, strat afficienados etc)....It is nearly impossible to make BZ 2 "All things for All players"...The mulitple variations of Ships/weapons/races gameplay formats makes Balancing them NEARLY impossible...Thus the reason why I said LOOOOOONG ago in 1.3 testing to look VERY carefully at any balance changes made to 1.3 because 1.2 (as is) is very well balanced-yes...we all know it has quirks, but very few FATAL flaws).
In spite of the attempts to be civil, curteous, helpful (whatever) in 1.3 "closed beta", the whole process degraded into near chaos and a great deal of anger amongst the warring factions (testers). At the point I got "outted" of the "closed beta" in my judgement 1.3 need alot of work to FIX what we(and I had my share of responsibility for) had screwed up..again, the ill-fated attempt to be "all things to all players".
I've seen posts earlier where some testers think 1.3 balance is "good as is"...I can't attest to this because 1.3 pb is unplayable for me. And I don't know what "balance changes" have been made while the continuing work on 1.3 goes on...But I have my doubts much has really been done to it, because I don't know of anyone but the RIP guys who play multiplayer strat games and they haven't let any word out about any "balance fixing" going on. I suspect that the 1.3 work that is going on is more focused on just getting the patch to function reliably, that was always Nathans Modous Apparendi (and as much as I am personna non grata in Nathans view, BUT, on this 1 subject I dare say I agree with him) Fix the basic patch, before you try to work on the balance issues...especially when your beta group is small, and you have virtually no human vs human strat games getting tested.
Now, back to my point..."adding ships willy nilly" is much harder than you think.....You'll have a very very hard time reaching concensus on what "balanced is" when or if 1.3 gets a second "public beta" to work on balance, don't create a even more difficult task by adding new ships and new variables to a already moving target.
AHHH yeah...1.3 posting, it nearly gave me a ulcer before...someone please shoot me before I get outta hand.
Quote from: Wingfliersorry didn't get to finish that post...had to go to class...
Anyways...
I think BZ2 is really in need of the Puma and the Dragoon. Pharoh, at least, agrees with me on this one.
Think about it:
BZ2 goes like this - Empty Scout - Scout - Tank
Isn't that quite a leap? From a scout to a tank? It's not like there's an alternative...when people start getting tanks scouts become obsolete for dogfighting..(at least in 1.3)
Scouts still get used, I agree, but usually for hit and run attacks on extractors, and that's in the late game where the tanks would be the most dominant anyways..
(1) Acutally it's more like,
"Scout - Empty Scout - Scout - Tank/Sentry - Warrior"
(2) Scions have one, Sentries.
(3) I disagree, scouts can be used late-game to fight tanks, but tanks can pump out more damage to take down pools. Scion scouts which have similar attack power to the Warriors, are much smaller, and much faster. In my humble opinion commanders should use scouts late game because of their speed and radar range. But the thugs should be in tanks as much as possible.
:mrgreen:
I don't understand...why would it be beneficial to a commander to be in a scout in the later game??
Please be more specific APCs
Adam
Becuase then the Scout can keep up with and shoot down the enemy's bomber. :)
Quote from: WingflierCome on dude, he doesn't even capatilize after his periods.
I can use, lots, and, will, you know what I'm. Talk about?
Adam
Please re-read it then.
Quotemuch less in their range. Empties
Quotekilling pools. A scout
Quoteat least one will escape. Besides
Besides, do capitals really matter? you can read this, can you?
Anyway, shouldn't balance be done on vehicle function rather than player skill?
I realy dont see dragoon useful
sure, gauss is very deadly morphed BUT - dragoon have much much lower ammo then a warrior meaning not even 20 shots, the dragoon is wacky and quite hard to control (probably very laggy as well - which is another reason it should'nt be in)
and morphed they got lower health now, give me one example of someone who will prefer a dragoon over an arc/sonic blink scout / warrior
stingers arent that useful, and if you wanna go about gauss long range - arc is 175, more then enough to outrnage turrets, and as for gts, you cant get in their range and still get few shots - because you got absro and then you just blink away
or just wobble kill it with a scout
puma, aha - the puma, not much knowledge about it still - dual shads? hmm whats the point of msl scout then? ill tell ya, non
more to add, boy, isnt it fun to give isdf MORE units to kill scion ships?
but since I dont know much about the puma I'll move on
who the *Ammo* said tanks are better then chain scouts?
2 chain scouts > sp tank badly
1 chain scout can kill 1 sp tank alone
2 warpy chain scout probably > blast chain tank [depends whos driving]
3 scouts > blast tank easily [note: doesnt metter if they are empty or fulls - but they got chains]
in the current form of the 1.3 PB 1 scout can probably kill a blast tank by itself, because it wasssssss so warpy that the tank dont got a chance to hit
on the side - blast laser tank is a good scout killer but it gotta start earlier and be very accurate to survive vrs 3
for some - even dealing with 2 is hard
as for commander in scout - well it realy realy depends whos cmding, most people that command cant dogfight well, what they do when they command is usualy stick to pools or stay around base, some even stay pilots
while the more exprienced will usualy take the highest tech unless they got someone they realy trust with the tech [usualy the first full scout or tank goes to best thug]
people realy undermaiste scouts in late game as well
and heres and example:
all your team in blast tanks, they are preaty much only defending with chain scouts, they hit you abit and run, you dont get to kill much but you manage to get their defense down, now - being a tank and rushing in to kill their buildings will get you EASILY killed, while if you get 1 smart enough guy in a scout he will tear down their base much more effectivly [espicely in ZST / 1.2 where you can still hover] and here are 2 reasons why:
1. he's warpy, he dont care about getting hit because he wont get hit much
2.if he dies its np - only 40 scrap on an upgraded, about 20 secs to build a new one
3. he's fast --> he can get away, recharged and come back easily - much more effective then a blast - chain tank
and as I already mentioned - in 1.2 / ZST / FE you can hover
big note - sure sp tank if you can get one in and kill all of them is more effective, but how often does that happend compared to all team in blast tanks tearing down defenses?
Man, Phoenix, you are talking about 1.2...in 1.3 that hoot just won't fly.
A tank with sp and laser would be an even match for 2 chain scouts...
Granted, 3 scouts could probably take a tank w/blast, but you would probably lose at least one scout, probably two...
But when do 3 scouts take on 1 tank? If 1 whole team has tanks, and one whole team has scouts, the scout team is going to get pwned.
There won't be any 3 on 1s. It will just be laser or blast rape of the scouts...
In 1.2 you may be right, but for 1.3 I just don't know where your coming from...scouts are NO match for a loaded tank.
It really pains me to say this but, PF is right. Even in 1.3, the tactics of 1.2 still work. Teamwork of even low-level vets (in lets say 2 scouts) will absolutely kill a single low-level vet (let alone a newb (in a sp or blast/chain/mdm tank). Teamwork will almost always win. And in 1v1 dogfights, if a chain scout also has red field, that scout can sneak up from any direction and just rip the tank apart before the tank can train his guns on the scout. 1v1 is more dependant on vehicle loadout, I think.
Wing, I think you need to start playing with some different ppl to see exactly why everyone is trying to say adding the Puma and Dragoon is a bad idea.
lol FYI, 2 chain scouts even on paper does more damage to a tank
2 scouts vs 1 tank - ON PAPER 1 scout dies but tank dies too
now, how often will the scouts miss? hmm probably not much, how much will the tank miss? alot
now, sure if the tank gets to used MDM then the tank wins, but if its head to head most likely the scouts will keep their range --> which is even bigger then the tank's laser range
and if thats not enough - if the scout gets hit badly he runs, if tank get hits he cant run from scout
all of the above was for sp tank and in 1.2 1 chain scout can kill an sp tank by hovering it easily
in tanks - its very importent to use teamwork, in scotus you can just run from 1 side to the other easily
QuoteThere won't be any 3 on 1s. It will just be laser or blast rape of the scouts...
lol ya, not enough playrs even for that ;)
sad but true hehe
but lets say you do get a 4v4, well, most likely in that situation the tanks will try to mdm the base, 2 toghater maybe, 4 scouts on em
heck, im not saying blast tanks totaly sucks ass, but if the players are about same level I do belive scouts will win [unless they are TOTALY new and only use 1 engine to move and always use the same weapon, in that situation most likely the scout will stop 160m and try to shoot the tank]
heh, you saved me a bunch of work booby.
wing, if you EVER played a good 1.2 game against someone who knew what they were doing, you would lose in the first ten minutes.
if there were any decent players in 1.3 that you played against, you would lose in ten minutes still.
FE came very clost to balance, a few small things out of wack, but only two ships addad to stock races, and a completely new race. It took a really long time to get balance right, and there were a lot of testers.
If you cant read what i wright, you should take a Basic English course, and try to pass it too.
"scouts are NO match for a loaded tank."
Because in 1.3 your physics completely remove the advantage of agility and escape speed" 1.2 scouts didn't out-muscle tanks, they flew around them or got above them, in 1.3 you lack the circle strafe speed and hover. This is absent the player piloting skill factors.
_________________
you dont need to be as agile in 1.3 cause of warp
exactly
and you can still arch and get a decent amount of damage since the tanks arent that fast at moving as well
the speed - well scouts imo are slower as well, but they still a hell lot faster then tanks
also - I said few times that 1 chain scout can kill an sp tank - thats probably for 1.2 only - but 2 chain scouts will rip sp tank with no problem unless they get in MDM range