I found some minor errors in the AIP file for the 1v1 instant action game, and corrected a major problem with the Mechana power generator ODF file that I was able to fix by using the power generator ODF of the Black Dogs for editing/comparasion. Apparently, the ODF for M.P.Gen. had a 3 power requirement to build which didn't make sense for starting a Mechana base to begin with anyways. Also, the ODF itself was not functional either as it stood. When I first tried to play 1v1 B.D. vs Mechana the M recy would produce 2 scavs and 2 constructors and then just sit their lookin stupid at my ship. The AIP also had some case problems on some of the ODF entries, i.e., obpgen rather than ObPgen when looking at the actual ODF files. As it stands now I've actually gotten the M constructor to produce a working power generator, a comm attenna, a gun tower and several M ships that have already destroyed my ship several times when i got to close to their base so that I could watch them build their base as I try to make corrections based on my limited knowledge. Also, the Mechana don't seem to have a service vehicle. Would it be possible to borrow/adapt one from Phara-what-cha-ma-call-its probably also need their service bay thingy too right? Is it as simple as going into the M-Recy thingy and replacing of the combat unit with service thingy? I notice that the Mechana have a tracked factory maker that looks like a Phara. unit; it's not listed in the 1.3 editor, but the pak explorer shows the unit. Strangely enough though the mechana don't apppear to have a factory either though 2 buildings a very large one and a smaller version that the 1v1 game uses. I hope to do some more testing/modification later today to see how far I can go to make the Mechana actually try to destroy my base. Question: There are 4 or 5 other AIP files for the races; will I need to modify each file to get the mechana to fight them? Thanks for any feedback in adavance G-S?
That odf intentionally had that setting. Its purpose was to shut down the mechana race in one single player mission.
To really fix it, have the aip call the other mechana power generator. I believe there are two in fleshstorm.
I'm pretty sure the issue with the mechana power generator was fixed in the fleshstorm 1.1 patch, I'll check this personally in a minute but it's listed under the fixes in the patch documentation.
QuoteFixes made to the Mechana Race in MPI and Instant Action, they now do stuff ;).
yup I've just checked and this problem was definately fixed in the patch, either you haven't updated fleshstorm or you didn't apply the patch correctly.
I got them fighting again without the 1.1 patch through my own efforts, and now i'm in the process of modifying the Mechana constructor, recycler, and adding a factory unit. Is there a maximum 8 item limit to the build limits listed above? I examined the ODF files for each build unit and would like to change/modify them to add a service bay and service unit for the Mechana. Is it possible? The Mechana seem to be a fierce bunch after trying them out earlier today; they seem almost undefeatable as they attacked my base against gun towers and wiped my units out! Oh by the way can I create/modify an existing AIP file to include fighting the Mechanas against themselves? It seems easy enough to sub out another races entries in the AIP and add Mechana assets instead. Thanks G-S?
If you are going to modify the Phaer Rhan, do it through a recycler variant. Don't modify the assets Lizard provided in Fleshstorm because you risk bad assets if you do.
Modify? More like complete the Mechana. there's at least 2 variants of the recycler in track form already and both build the same exact ships? Why? Kudos to Lizard for making the Mechana they rock dude! I just want to help them be all that they can be. They need a service component to truly make them a kick ass bunch of fighters. Besides these are instant action maps for single player action. If I screw up I can always reinstall the mod anyways right? Additionally, the exercise will help me increase my knowledge in modding for BZII. I'm really into BZII and need to learn about such things so that I can eventually build my own mods/races for the game, and contribute to the community eventually. What I really need now is useful feedback from other modders about questions that I ask earlier in my posts,.i.e, is 8 items the maximum limit for the recycler and factory and can a service bay and truck type be sub out with one of the other build items? Tanks in advance, G-S?
1) yes you can have it so that your factory/recycler/constructor/whatever can build buildings or units from other races.
2) you can have extensive armoury style build menu's for all production buildings and possibly constructors too ( can't remember), that's something like 100 possible units in each building's menu. If you need an example take a look and see how I did it with the adult swarm factory.
you really should learn good modding practice right from the start such as renaming ODF's and not overwriting stock assets, it'll help stop you from getting into any bad habits.
Kudos to the designers of the Mechana they truly rock! I borrowed the pvserv.odf and saved it as observ.ofd and modified it to remove the prebuild requirement and successfully added it to the Mechana Recycler build list, rearranged the build list to more conform with the ISDF/EDF layout, added the Mechana Turret, a service pod, etc. The Hellfire rocks but only a one unit build was possible as it stood originallly; now I can build lots of M. turrets. I also added the M. Pilot as a build item to the M. Rec. as I think they rock as a fighting unit. Oh, I also made the super large Mechana structure into a M. Factory and added it to the M. Constructors build list. Also moved all of the heavyer units to the M Factory as that seemed like where they belonged to begin with like the other races. I'm curious why the Mechana seemed to have been somewhat neglected/not developed in to a more complete fighting race? I played against with several different races after getting them fighting and well; they simply overwelm an enemy base just like the Swarm. Dude they rock! Now I'm trying to figure out a way to play as the Mechana against the other FS races. I tried copying one of the Mechv**** AIP's and changed the references to the Mechana ones, but they don't appear in the select menu as a selectable option though. Does the FS 1.1 beta patch address this issue; I've downloaded it but have yet to install it. My original intention was not to modify the race but to simply get them fighting against the other FS races. tanks G-S?
it sounds like you've learned a lot about ODF editing, they aren't too tricky to master and you can do some pretty cool stuff with them.
The mechana were never properly finnished because they were never intended to be a full race, just some badass enemies that would appear and make things difficult in a couple of missions. They were originally going to be a less complete race than they currently are but then I decided to throw in a few extra bits to expand their tech tree so that they could be included as opponents in IA and MPI, this is why they have a phaer rhan processor vehicle that deploys into their factory ;) .
to make them a playable race in IA or something like that would take a considerable amount of work not just AIP modifications, they'd need a proper pilot class unit for a start, to make them available in IA you'd have to edit the Fleshstorm instant action DLL which only I have the source code for, or make a new DLL ( which wouldn't be too difficult using the BZ2 dll scriptor ). Technically it would be easier to add them as a playable race to MPI mode but there's still a bunch of files you'll need to edit to get them to work, you'll need to edit the vehicles text file for fleshstorm so that you can select a mechana unit as your starting unit and probably a bunch of other stuff aswell, you'll have to forgive me I'm a bit rusty on the details I'm only just back from a 6 month break from BZ2.
the upcoming fleshstorm 1.2 patch will include a bunch more improvements for the mechana and maybe if I get time and am feeling extra generous I'll throw in a few bonus goodies. ;)
Awesome Lizard, I'm gonna monkey around with BZ dll scriptor to see if I can figure out how to make a custom dll for making the Mechana playable. I have'nt really messed with it yet but have loaded existing files to study the basic structure and familiarize myself with the utility. I flipped out when the modification I made actually worked rather than totally crashing and feel relatively confident that I can figure out how to use the dll scriptor as well. I originally intended to make a few watercraft for another mod only to realize the project was more ambitious than I originally though after creating a few simple mods with Gmax. I soon found myself choking on more than I could chew on and put the project on hold until I could learn more about BZII modding itself. Now I've become more of a nibbler and find that taking little bites a lot easier to swallow...lol. I'll keep posting info as I progress more into things and try to keep silly questions to a minimum and just keep chuggin' along. Maybe I should change my user name to 'Bump-n-Go" instead...lol
in 1.3pb3 it may even be possible to do something with the stock IA DLL I'm not sure, the only reason I didn't use the stock DLL was because the phaer rhan used different starting units and I couldn't make that work in the stock environment ( things may have changed now I'm not sure ) .
I'd strongly advise taking a copy of the ODFs you are working on and renaming them so that they have a different starting letter M for instance as opposed to O, you'll find it makes things a lot easier in the long run especially when it comes to stuff like pilots etc. and you'll avoid any possible assets conflicts.
Perhaps you could post the original bzs script so that I could study it in the dll scriptor and try to figure out something new that would help make the Mechana playable. As it stands now the only way I can think of playing the Mechana against another race would be to prebuild their base and save the map as an IA map and add then edit the enemy spawn points for another race. Only I think that I'll end up with an extra Recycler at the start of the game and of course need to switch to a Mechana ship afterwards. G-S? PS: I may try to modify the M. Comm with another races Comm. configuration so that that I can use the satellite view to control my units better. I did it once by adding an ISDF Commo Bunker to my Mechana prebuilt base and it worked just fine.
If you create ovrecy_m, the mechana should be selectable in MPI and I believe IA. This is on stock maps and not FS maps.
Correction, ovrecy.odf needs to exist and not ovrecy_m.odf. Any map using the stock instant action dll should respect the race you select before map launch. The Fleshstorm IA Dlls probably won't.
Lizard uses his custom DLL to eliminate the need for AIP's for all of the races. If you use INSTANT.DLL you'll need to make not only the appropriate units but a gazillion AIP files also. You can make just one for each race combo, and tell the AIP's not to try to switch out, but that might not be as easy as it sounds... AIP crafting is an art form...
What Lizard does with his DLL is what you'd actually expect of a race, though not the most fun for beginners. First a few scouts, then some weaker units, then they throw the book at you. Why would they leave you alone if you didn't build anything? "Force Matching" is something you don't do in real war...Â
-Av-
Avatar...I'm just learning stuff now and studying bzs scripts will help me to do what I can to learn modding from an experienced modder like Lizard and other modders willing to share information with those who not only enjoy the game, but want to create some more cool stuff for BZII. You're post suggests that only certain people have the creativity to mod; creating art requires a certain level of knowledge and creativity. Rather than criticize my sugestions could you suggestion something that's actually helpful instead? I'm sure that even Lizard would agree that modding doesn't just happen; it's a learned skill that each individual acquires over time. I'm almost certain that given some honest mentoring I could in theory (though I might be wrong) create some pretty cool stuff as well. Ever since I found this site quite a while back I've wanted to contribute to the game but lacked the experience needed to actually be of much help. I'm attempting to gain that knowledge through doing and asking questions relevant to modding. Some modders have offered help and some have actually enriched my knowledge and inspired me to want to mod for BZII. Anways, do you have a suggestions on helping me to learn modding? I understand most of the basic concepts but need some more specific sources of information on scripting DLLs matching them to AIPs. I downloaded a copy of Anywhere's PE viewer to look at DLLs in more detail and the program has already yielded some BZII command references that I'm using to study the structure of what goes into the DLLs. The BZS scriptor and AIP editor are very cool and I see how they really make things happen in the missions. Tanks, G-S? aka Bump-N-Go....
How was what he said not helpful????
He told you you had to make a bunch of AIP's if you use the Instant.dll and warned you it would not be easy.
That's not criticism. It's friendly advice.
Avatar is one of the best modders, has always been very helpful, and has been doing it probably since you were in diapers.
Now, in the spirit of being helpful, this is criticism:
It's difficult to read your posts because you don't use paragraphs and punctuation and you misspell.
You're too sensitive.
You have a big ego.
You assume much.
You have a big nose.
Stand up straight. You're slouching.
really, honestly my dll scripts are so hacked that a chimpanzee randomly pressing buttons could probably write better.
all my IA script does is load the corresponding AIP based on the races selected and then checks to see which recylcer dies first, that's it.
as for my AIP files .... well they are even more simplistic ... :lol: build, attack, harvest scrap.
basically what I did was remove anything that could possibly go wrong and that was pretty much everything at the time of writing the files. The only reason I wrote my own missions is because nobody else would and I can't say I learnt a whole lot along the way either, if you can't emulate what I did by following the instructions that came with the scriptor then there's probably not a whole lot I can add that would be of any use.... I'm an artist(?) not a programmer. :lol:
Quote from: Lizard on November 27, 2006, 06:46:11 PMI'm an artist(?)
Of course you are... Even though your most famous work flings mucous and looks like some disgusting insect's severed, skinless and misshapen head; you are the only one here who can do that on purpose and make it look good in it's own way; and for that, you are an artist and we thank you. :-D
Um, yeah, what RD said... :-D
I don't see any criticism in my post, but then I wrote it and didn't intend any criticism. I guess my posts don't make it through the language barrier all that well, as other posters have also taken some of my posts completely the wrong way...
So, plain and simple, some advice from an old modder:
1. Take it SLOW. There are a lot of parts to modding, pick one and stick with it for awhile. If you go from part to part you'll end up a master of nothing. I started with modelling, and along the way had to learn skinning, ODF's, weapons, audio editing, cfg files, the shell, and am now working with DLLs and AIPs. I've remade the four BZ1 races, and created three entirely from scratch, and it's a LOT of work that touches on a huge variety of areas.
2. Don't be afraid to ASK questions, but don't expect anyone to just lay out the answer. We're a rowdy bunch and our threads go off topic quickly as we expand and explore the question.
3. Learn to SEARCH these boards and others like Time Disruptor, a lot of answers are already out there.
4. GATHER the tools you'll need. Pandemic has made the DLL source code available, the stock XSI's and ODF's, and the community has created some amazing tools like PAK EXPLORER, WINTER, THREED, etc.. There are some great tutorials and references like the MODLOG around also, take advantage of them.
How's that? :)
-Av-
Tanks Avatar, all things considered I basically just want to learn how to mod. No offense intended by my comments; it's just that there's not a lot of resources available to show new modders the ropes you know. I search the posts all the time and gleen little tid bits here and there and well I've gathered a box full of puzzle peices that I'm trying to put together now. I also realize that it is indeed a slow process to comprehend all the different aspects of the modding process. Every I time I grasp something new I'm even more determined to learn more. I have so many new ideas floating around in the ole noggin' that need an outlet in the form of creating new mods for the game. Even my nephew is starting to develop an interest in BZII after watching me show him the vast potential of modifying things within the game. G-S?
I think whwat Avatar is saying is this: Learn thins one at a time.
1) Get good (or at least passable) at modeling.
2) Get good (or at least passable) at map-making.
3) Get Good (or at least passable) at ODF-ing
4) Get Good (or at least passable) at *insert next topic here*.
yeah what avatar said, you need to tackle BZ2 modding one bite at a time if you don't want to end up choking to death, it's not big subject, it's not a huge subject it's one of those subjects where we haven't really defined the boundaries yet, you never stop learning, old farts like avatar and I have have been modding this game for pushing on 7 years and we are still learning new things all the time.
making a mod isn't something you can really take a crash course in and master in few weeks, I started with map making and had a couple of map packs under my belt and a whole raft of IA maps before I felt confident enough to try other stuff ( mind you we were all still learning how to mod the game back then) , next I decided to learn modelling which took me a couple of years to really feel like I was mastering it, working on FE was a real eye opener but it wasn't until I'd been modding the game for over 3 years that I felt ready to start creating my own mod.
I'm not saying you have to be editing BZ2 files for 3 years before you should even consider making your own mod, it really depends upon the scope of your planned mod, Fleshstorm was a bit ambitious to say the least. You could quite easily make a successful mod just by editing ODF files and some people already have done. The BZ2 modding community tends to be better at helping those who help themselves, precise questions ( what does such and such do ? ) tend to get better responses than more generalised ones (how do I make a mod ? ).
The forums tend to be the best resource for information we have, we have a few tutorials on specific subjects but not many, the forums may take a little bit of searching but almost every subject has been covered at one time or another ( often multiple times in some cases ) .
Quote from: APCs r evil on November 27, 2006, 09:42:56 PM
your most famous work flings mucous and looks like some disgusting insect's severed, skinless and misshapen head;
I'm glad you were able to appreciate the beauty of my work. :lol: :lol:
If you're talking beauty then I'd have to say the Phaer Ran are right up there... fantastic race artistically and one that can be easily understood but is still different enough to make them interesting. They're my current favorite race and considering I have 7 races of my own on my HD that's saying a lot... :)
The Swarm, btw, just piss me off... :evil:
-Av-
Ditto.
You know you all are so right...doing is so much better than complaining about any lack of available information. I would like to add some more tutorials eventually as I get a handle on modding for the game. I remember when I first starting to map for the game; I felt a little intimidated about modifying things but soon got over it when things actually worked in my maps. Afterwards, the new mods I found for the game really hooked me on BZII after seeing the cool new races that evolved from the original 2 races. I said to myself WOW look what other peeps were doin to create and colaborate together towards a finished mod. My background is in television production and I know that the whole process is dependant on not just one person but a team of talented people working towards a final product. Kudos, who all who endevor to create stuff for the game. Each of you serve as an inspiration to others that seek the same goal. My hats off to each one of you.
Quote from: Avatar on November 28, 2006, 05:07:04 PM
If you're talking beauty then I'd have to say the Phaer Ran are right up there... fantastic race artistically and one that can be easily understood but is still different enough to make them interesting. They're my current favorite race and considering I have 7 races of my own on my HD that's saying a lot... :)
The Swarm, btw, just piss me off... :evil:
-Av-
The Phaer Rhan were a real challenge for me to design, organic looking stuff like the Swarm I could design in my sleep that sort of stuff comes so easily to me I barely even have to think about what I'm doing, but with designing the Phaer Rhan I really struggled.
A lot of the stuff got rebuilt from scratch a few times, especially some of the tracked vehicles, it took me a long time to come up with a satisfactory look for the textures, for a long time everything had a kind of galvanised look to it which looked really crappy. :-P
I'm glad it all worked out ok in the end though, I'm quite pleased with the final result aswell.
it sounds like the swarm are doing their intended job perfectly also .... :wink: :lol:
I wouldn't mind them so much if I had my neutron bomb... :)
Nothing like having a Scuttle keep your base beeping by sitting there spraying something it couldn't possibly destroy somewhere your defenses couldn't possibly reach... arrrrrghh.... :)
Add that to the list. To design a good race you have to be evil enough to add in those things others will HATE, as well as what they'll LOVE. You can't have a good race without both of those things.
For instance, the Scions have the Mauler, which I love, and then they have the Mauler, which I hate (fear). :-D
-Av-
I'll have a patch ready in a couple of weeks that will give the Phaer Rhan a whole bunch of new toys to play with. :-D
I think you'll like them Av. :wink:
but it seems that to fit with your new philosophy I'm going to be forced to introduce some things you really hate .... :evil:
:-D
Prithee harken to ancient words of wisdom:
For every irresistable force there is an immovable object.
And...
Every rule has an exception, including this one. :)
For thou shouldst knowest:
Balance is all about give and take... love and hate... measure and countermeasure.
Still, you can't have a good game without having at least one weapon that has no counter, or a counter that can't be cracked by a weapon. Those are the game enders, the tie breakers, and should be the prize at the top of the tech tree for the fast attacker, or doom for the slow defender.
The dearer the price, the sweeter should be the rewards...
Reaching that prize game ending tech should mean you have to expose your soft underbelly, give up your firstborn, and complete the labours of Hercules. With that level of sacrifice the reward should be the total and complete devastation of the enemy or utter and total invulnerability. Risk all, gain much. That makes a good game.
Nap time...
-Av-
Thou hast heard thy words of BZ's greatest Philospher :)
But does not the Mauler come with the wind like so many locust?
Nor the Bomber in the clouds?
Does the Archer care upon which steep mount he sits, mocking those who would try to slay him?
Or the Scuttle mind the cries of Avatar as it nibbles at his heels?
Swarm Pilot: Balance!? We don't need no stinkin' balance! :lol:
Quote from: Red Devil on November 29, 2006, 09:59:50 PM
But does not the Mauler come with the wind like so many locust?
(http://www.bzwasteland.com/battlezone/wiki/images/3/3d/Bz2_unit_avatar_flyingmauler.jpg)
"The hor-ror..."
You should see them now that they WORK... hehe... brrrrrrrr
-Av-
:-o It's too late for Avatar. He's fallen under the spell of the Dark Side with Natty... :-(
he's always been there, he just never had the power before... :lol:
now he's learned DLL trickery there'll be no stopping him. :-o
I had the AI Maulers flying using only the Scriptor. Just tell them to hunt, play an animation, replace unit with hovering one. Simple.
LOL, I actually can't quite figure out how to do it with just any Mauler in the DLL, but am taking apart the routine GSH has watching Scavs to see how to watch all Maulers.
That'll be cool... :)
-Av-
I guess when we hear Flight Of The Bumblebees playing in the background, it'll be too late. :-o
Add an array/list of size, oh, I'd say make it dynamic and do *NOT* put it inside one of the transfer arrays. Take the addobject function, whenever the mauler is built, add it to array/list. In execute, do a test on all of them, I'd say make it so it only tests two a tick or so, the modulus operator is perfect for that, saves you from adding another variable to transfer around the network. Make sure in Load that you serialize the handles out, in Save that you load them (if a variable sized array/list, make sure to put a leading count, or terminate with a zero or so), and in PostLoad to relink the handles (ConvertHandles).
:-o
:|
:roll:
:wink:
-Av-
Please don't make the Mechana any harder to defeat. Or at least make the rec variants available.
Quote from: Axeminister on December 02, 2006, 02:12:20 PM
Please don't make the Mechana any harder to defeat. Or at least make the rec variants available.
:lol:
if they were any harder to beat the game would be over before it started.