Okay, when I load 1.3 pb3, the cursor comes out as a white block, and I get no textures when I try to play instant action or campaign. Anyone know what could cause that?
What is your video card?
-- GSH
How do you find out? (I spaced how to.. :?)
Go to Start -> Run, type "dxdiag" (without the quotes), and hit enter. In the program that appears, click on the 'Display' tab up top. Click on the "Save all information", save that to a text file, then copy in the "Display Devices" section to this forum thread.
-- GSH
Ok, this is what I got..
Card name: Intel(R) 82815 Graphics Controller (Microsoft Corporation)
Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
Chip type: Intel(R) 82815
DAC type: Internal
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1132&SUBSYS_00190E11&REV_02
Display Memory: 32.0 MB
Current Mode: 1024 x 768 (16 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Driver Name: i81xdnt5.dll
Driver Version: 6.13.0001.3198 (English)
DDI Version: 8
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 8/4/2004 00:56:44, 702845 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
VDD: n/a
Mini VDD: i81xnt5.sys
Mini VDD Date: 8/3/2004 22:29:38, 161020 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B78E66-5272-11CF-DF61-1820A0C2CB35}
Vendor ID: 0x8086
Device ID: 0x1132
SubSys ID: 0x00190E11
Revision ID: 0x0002
Revision ID: 0x0002
Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_B ModeMPEG2_C ModeMPEG2_D
Deinterlace Caps: n/a
Registry: OK
DDraw Status: Enabled
D3D Status: Enabled
AGP Status: Enabled
DDraw Test Result: Not run
D3D7 Test Result: Not run
D3D8 Test Result: Not run
D3D9 Test Result: Not run
I think (I'm not the one to ask), but that looks to me like its not a dedicated graphics card. That would be a problem.
You have a 32 MB integrated video card. Good luck.
well that makes no sense! it works with every other patch up to 1.3 pb2. what's different with this one?
I would recommend this: spend 100$ or so and buy a relatively decent video card. Or ask a tech-oriented family member to buy one for you for teh holidays.
Ah well, I can live with it for 21 days, until I get the new computer my brother bought me (i watched him do it :-P)
Thank you Ebay! $139 (plus tax) for a sweet computer!
You can try putting
/nodxt
on the commandline for BZ2 (edit properties on a shortcut, and add it there). However, the i815 is REALLY old -- it came out before BZ2 did. Getting a video card first manufactured this century will help BZ2's performance a lot.
-- GSH
Quote from: GSH on December 05, 2006, 03:59:08 AM
You can try putting
/nodxt
on the commandline for BZ2 (edit properties on a shortcut, and add it there). However, the i815 is REALLY old -- it came out before BZ2 did. Getting a video card first manufactured this century will help BZ2's performance a lot.
-- GSH
:-D that better have been a joke....
EDIT: at any rate, can you put those destructions in english plz? (er instructions)
Do you know how to modify your bz2 shortcut?
Basically all you need to do.
1. Right click on your bz2 shortcut
2. Click properties
3. You will see "C:\....\bzone.exe"
4. After /bzone.exe", you will want to type in /nodxt.
Here is what mine looks like
Target = "C:\Battlezone II 1.3\bzone.exe" /nodxt
The i815 was released in June, 2000 - see http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1352 , or http://www.active-hardware.com/english/reviews/mainboard/pt-815tx.htm . This century started Jan 1, 2001.
-- GSH
Ok, I've done it, now lemme see if it worked...
Thank you both, it works now :-D
Um, another thing. Do I have to do it to the mods too? Because normal BZ2 is working normally, but my mods are doing what normal BZ used to.
Most MODs haven't converted over to the dxt textures. A shame, really, as they've got better quality and speed.
-- GSH
crap...
Yeah, you shouldn't see the issue with any mods. I converted all of the textures for FE, but I never released those textures. I did the same for Lizard's fleshstorm mod and sent the files to Lizard.
DXT textures are a problem with me too, they are very blocky.
Anyhoo. Depends on the mod. New textures probably won't have the DXT textures. But the textures that are used from patch13.pak (anything that isn't new) will still be DXT. So the stock stuff will look bad, and the new stuff unique to the mod will look ok to you.
This can be overcame by using MM5 and adding in the /nodxt to the commandline options section, though mine never saves this, so you might have to do it every time depending on if it saves or not.
As for self-exe mods, just make a shortcut and do what you did before.
QuoteDXT textures are a problem with me too, they are very blocky.
Try creating them from 512x512 textures not 256x256.
I have redone my dalek skins in 512x512 and they look great!
[attachment deleted by admin]
I mean the ones that come with 1.3 :P
Raven - what's your video card? Have you tried playing with the mipbias in pb3? There's some tools by nVidia to preview what DXT texures should look like at http://developer.nvidia.com/object/General_FAQ.html#t2 .
Dx - DXT textures are a modified bitdepth, and created from 16/32 bits as desired. See some sites like http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/Texture_Format or  I think if your graphics card supports 2048x2048 (as DX9 cards should support), then BZ2 could use tga or dxt textures at that size. However, not all cards support that size. (That i815 that started this thread? Probably 512x512 max.) Using dxt textures is best for insnely high textures, as the BZ2 dxtgen will automatically create enough mipmaps that textures in the distance are properly sized.
-- GSH
(Inno3D) Nvidia geforce MX 4000
I openly admit that my card isn't anything good :P It gets me by :D
I'll take a look, thanks for the reference. Sounds good if it would work right :P
And I don't know what a mipbias is :P
Ah, I had one of those cards for a while until I was able to convince my dad to splurge and buy a new one.
MIPBIAS adjustment is in Gameprefs.ini and using the bold console command:
// This is a value from -2 .. 2 (default 0). As the value decreases
// (towards -2), there will tend to be more pixel detail, but at the
// chance of slightly more sparkly textures. As the value increases
// (towards 2), it'll tend to be smoother, but at the expense of
// detail. Adjustable ingame with the 'vid.render.mipbias' variable.
ShellMipBias = -1
GameMipBias = -0.5
// Number of mipmaps that should be autogenerated for loaded
// textures. This ought to improve graphical performance, at the cost
// of a little more memory on the graphics card (and main memory). BZ2
// 1.0-1.2 used 0 for some textures, 3 for others. Valid values are
// 0-16, with illegal values resetting to 4. Using a value of 0 here
// will cause in-game graphics to be REALLY sparkly. You don't want to do
// that. Note: the DXT textures used by 1.3pb3 and higher ignore this
// value.
DesiredMipCount = 8
OOOOOOOOOOOOOH I see.
Cheers
Actually, the problem is the Geforce MX 4000. Quoting http://developer.nvidia.com/object/General_FAQ.html#t2 (what I linked to above) :
Quote
DXT1 has 16 bit interpolation on GF2 and GF3. Most textures will compress fine with DXT1 on these platforms. Textures with smooth gradients may have problems and this can often be fixed by adding dithering during compression. DXT3 and DXT5 are always interplated int 32 bits, and can be used if DXT1 has problems.
Sometimes, I'm tempted to raise BZ2's HW requirements just so that some really broken hardware is cut off.
-- GSH
I think that is an excellent plan. The hardware's only going to keep getting better.
Quote
The hardware's only going to keep getting better.
P.T. Barnum was right.
Here's the real mantra you need to learn: it all sucks. Just in different ways.
-- GSH
:-o Dammit! I replaced my 233Mhz Pentium II with a 64-bit Athlon for nothing! :x
Quote from: GSH on December 05, 2006, 10:04:38 PM
P.T. Barnum was right.
Here's the real mantra you need to learn: it all sucks. Just in different ways.
-- GSH
So right, just found out that the newer 64-bit systems have the OPCODE CMPXCHG16B, whereas my first-gen Athlon64 does not. >.>
Ah well, it is only necessary in multi-core/cpu builds anywhere, so just adding defines for different builds currently (I have 3 builds, a 32-bit that always uses CMPXCHG8B, a 64-bit that uses CMPXCHG16B, and a 64-bit that does plain, non-atomic copies (single-threaded).
Crap...
I'm saving for a lapptop. So getting a card isn't exactly on now... I'm keeping this hoote machine as its windows, but that laptop won't be able to play bz2 I can assure you ;)
Well at least theres the /nodxt :)
I tested BZ2 1.3b3 on two laptops. The Dell with Centrino and ATI X600 was from bad to very bad. The other, newer machine, Aspire 5xxxx with Turion proc and ATI X1300 performs quite well at 1024x763x32 with no limitations.
I think Raven, there are out there a lot of economy laptops that are perfect for this BZ2. You can use it as a tester :-D for the laptop.
Haven't had yet a laptop with Nvidia graphics.
Quote from: OvermindDL1 on December 06, 2006, 05:52:07 PM
So right, just found out that the newer 64-bit systems have the OPCODE CMPXCHG16B, whereas my first-gen Athlon64 does not. >.>
Ah well, it is only necessary in multi-core/cpu builds anywhere, so just adding defines for different builds currently (I have 3 builds, a 32-bit that always uses CMPXCHG8B, a 64-bit that uses CMPXCHG16B, and a 64-bit that does plain, non-atomic copies (single-threaded).
:-o
"Plain, non-atomic copies"???
Where do you have ATOMIC copies running?
Does the Guv'ment know about you OM? :evil:
-Av-
I see also the word BUILD associated with the ATOMIC. Hmm.... 8-)
My laptop (Gateway MX7515, Mobile AMD Athlon™ 64-bit 4000+ Processor, ATI X600, 1GB ram) seems to play BZ2 fine.
-- GSH
Atomic operations on a cpu is where an operation is done fast enough or hardware locked so only one cpu/core is accessing the resource at a time so you a garranteed not to have corrupt data due multiple things operating on something at the same time. :)
Uh-huh... sure, buddy... anything you say...
(he's over there, Officer...)
:roll:
-Av-
Bah. :P
What do you think has more impact on 1.3 Graphic performance G.SH., the amount of texture memory or the number of those pixel/vertex processors of the graphic card?
The reason I'm asking is the shaping of the graphic cards market, that offers at midrange level, combinations of the type: good GPU/128MB or mediocre GPU/512MB. Allegedly, this keeps the price affordable. :-P
If 1.3 benefits mainly from the memory available to textures, even integrated graphics that can shave 512MBs from the system RAM, will work OK.
Modern videocards with their fancy pipelines and shaders and all such won't make a hide-nor-hair amount of different to BZ2. :P
The only real thing on modern cards that could make a difference would be memory, and even then BZ2 is quite low in that regard.
But wait for GSH to answer since he has actually seen the graphics engine.
BZ2 doesn't use any shaders at all. And, all the (dxt) textures shipped with 1.3pb3 add up to 27.8MB. On modern cards, they ought to occupy roughly the same amount of memory. The lower mipmaps may be rounded up to some minimum page size (I know a 4x4 mipmap got rounded up to 4KB on the XBox 1, but I don't know the details of consumer cards), which'd increase memory needed. On the other hand, not all the textures on disk are used in a single level, which reduces some memory needed. I'm going to assume those two roughly cancel each other out, but that's a total guess.
On laptops, most graphics cards that claim "128MB" don't have their own memory, but they steal it from main memory. This reduces the total amount of RAM available, and makes the CPU and graphics chip fight over memory bus. On most PCI/AGP/PCIE addin graphics cards, they have their own memory, which doesn't cause any of these faults. WinXP needs at least 256MB, but seems to get happier close to 512MB. BZ2 needs at least 128MB of main memory on top of that, more if you're ignoring unit limits. So, on a laptop with memory-stealing graphics chip, I'd recommend at least 768MB memory, 1GB is more comfortable.
I'd suspect that the biggest win from a modern video card is basically this: fill rate. That is, the ability to paint polygons quickly. BZ2 still makes your CPU do all the work in transforming, lighting polygons.
-- GSH
Yeeah! I have seen 1.3 work fine with any 1GB RAM unit, mainly Intel integrated graphic desktops. It should be the same for laptops. The difference must be in the CPU though.
My GF6600GT allows me to go thrugh Quake4 or HalfLife2 with no problems at all. It is fanatastic, most of the time, with BZ2 1.3.
I experience a sensible drop of FPS, down to a halt, when there are like 30+ simultaneous explosions of plasma mines (Fleshstrorm) accompanied with the explosions of swarm units caught in the mine fields. My good old P4630 3.0GHz/2MB, probably is not enough anymore.
I don't mean because its a laptop. I mean the OS
There are a lot of guides for tunning XP by unloading programs and stopping services, until it runs like charm (if that is ever possible for a microsoft product). These configurations are targeted to different profiles of users, from extreme gamer to all-functionality dependent.
I think :wink: you will find a way to make your laptop run like a rocket. Get the laptop and have fun playing with it :-D.
Ok we aren't getting this..
The OS isn't windows. You think I'm paying money for another Windows machine? HA!
Emulator.
Mac? Linux? Other?
I am afraid you WILL have to have windows if you want to play BZ with minimum problems. To date, the emulators, even from Microsoft itself, are 90% bad choice :-P. Dual OS system maybe...
For the love of.. I know! I'm keeping this pile of microsoft-y hoot for that :P As well as the programs that I have accumilated.
Its a mac, I know theres a decent emulator but I'm not sure if it will handle bz2 with it running. I couldn't stand to have it on low graphics :P If your gonna play it, play it fully :)
Then again, by the time I have the money they will have been upgraded 3 times for that same price, so I might get away with it :P
I can't remember if 'Panther (the newest in development) works with the types of hardware Windows uses, might get away with a dual-boot. I really don't care. Infact no, I'm not bogging down anew laptop with all the hoot that Winodws gets itself into and allows in.
Though it would be nice to be able to use my current programs on the lappy and not have to go upstairs to this one. But still no. Not doing it.
I don't do hardware so I can't say what they are called, but basically, the current macs don't work with _based hardware. Which prevents a dualboot. Though my friend hacked his to work with it. I don't know. I really don't :P
QuoteFor the love of.. I know! I'm keeping this pile of microsoft-y hoot for that Tongue As well as the programs that I have accumilated.
You know.. microsoft has really done alot of nice things for us.. Sure it has its ups and downs,, but you dont have to make all the downs so bad and say microsoft sucks...
I could name alot of reasons why mac sucks (don't like it when I said that.. huh?)
Quote
Though it would be nice to be able to use my current programs on the lappy and not have to go upstairs to this one. But still no. Not doing it.
I know alternative ways to do that...you could ask me and I can tell you how..
Not particularly bothered to be honest, its your opinion. Your entitled to it. Both have their problems, nothings perfect, I just prefere mac over others because of the experiences I've had with my brothers laptop, for what I would use it for it's perfect.
Plus I said this machine was crap. With XP on it which makes it worse :lol:. I wasn't aiming it directly at the OS.
But hey, lets not get into this here, I think theres a topic about Microsoft in the OT boards. Might be a little while ago though :P
Just the way they have screwed me over has really annoyed me.
An example of how much of this would be that my Windows XP is a legit copy that I paid from my pocket and I can't get any updates as they seem to think its pirate. So they asked me for money to buy a key thingy. Will they help? Your joking right? And other stuff that I'm not bothering with. Ah the blue screen of death (older windows though) and the crashes are hardly amusing.
That would be nice sq, cheers for offering to help. Would be nice to be able to do it. I take it its remote desktop? You reckon' that will work with a different OS on each? I never even did it from Windows to Windows :lol:
Now, poke me with a sharp, pointy object and I will get upset :P
QuoteThat would be nice sq, cheers for offering to help. Would be nice to be able to do it. I take it its remote desktop? You reckon' that will work with a different OS on each? I never even did it from Windows to Windows cheesy
Wasn't refering to remote desktop :P
Windows XP professional can not connect to Home or Media Edition, but can connect to another professional OS.
Windows XP Home can connect to Win XP Pro, but can not connect to media or home editions.
Windows XP Media can connect to Win XP pro but can not connect to home or media editions.
Windows XP is pretty much the dominant computer :)
Oh my god. Scandal!
So, whats your idea?
QuoteWindows XP is pretty much the dominant computer Smiley
Whoops... That should be
Windows XP
Pro is pretty much the dominant computer.
I have Pro.
Now where was this topic again?
Buy whatever you want and Raven and enjoy it. Just check carefully that BZ2 will play properly and this may as well end this topic.
I'm keeping this machine for bz2! I just want a laptop, with a different OS ;)