Decided to play a strat in 1.3. I was ISDF and the enemy commander (Michael) was Scions.
First thing I noticed was craft handling. It seemed much more sluggish right off the bat, I imagine it was because I was so used to air maneuvering in 1.2. I seemed to adjust rather quickly to the new handling, however, and didnt really notice it much later on.
Game started out as usual, mostly involving dueling for control of the field with scouts and turrets. I tried to hover the enemy turrets but was unable to really do any damage with a minigun scout, instead having to resort to a gambit of hiding behind a pool while i moved my own into place. It worked. Later attempts at hovering were not the most successful, so I had to wait until tanks.
The base built OK, and I didnt notice any bugs. And I got to blast tanks without incident. Attempting to hit the enemy base was a frustrating affair however, as I was unable to target it for bombing runs, the enemy had too many jammers up. I couldnt tell any assault units to attack the enemy base, so I was forced to resort to attempting to mortar the base and being unable to do so with the enemy thugs defending.
Aside from that, I noticed a few bugs.
1) One time while charging the enemy base, I was able to get to a blind spot and ended up somehow making it inside of the enemy Overseer array, killing it from the inside.
2) Late game (about an hour and a half in) our game got a joiner, who lagged out. The rest of the game started to resynch like crazy. One moment I would be doing one thing, and the next, I would be instantly in a different place. The resynchs happened until the end of the game. This is quite a serious bug.
3) I noticed a little bit of warp, but this is probably due to the host's settings or connection.
4) I did notice a resynch bug, where I would build a unit and the scrap would be deducted, then a resynch would occur and the unit would not end up building (though I would still lose the scrap). Previous to the resynch flood, this only happened twice, and is not really more serious than it was in 1.2.
The game ended with my teammates lagging out and me being stuck fighting 3 guys. They took my recy down with maulers, and I ended up charging at their base, spending about 4 tanks killing all the jammers, and sending in the bomber to hit the enemy rec.
At each subsequent run, the enemy rec would be fully healed. So it was hopeless even with bomber. It just seems that a bomber/chain rush is much less effective.
Anyways, I have some preliminary suggestions. They're not big pests just yet, and I will have to play a few more games before I know for sure that they'll affect balance positively.
1) Set a build limit for jammers, make them slow to build, or make them cost more. They're far too effective, since its nearly impossible to attack a well defended jammed base with even AI units.
2) Bring back the ground attack for bombers. Jammers can still have effect in that they make locking on hard, but when your in the enemy base, unable to call bomber on anything, it can be a real pain that your 100 scrap unit is going to waste (For the hour that I had the bomber, I was only able to make 6 bombing runs, on non-base targets -- which made the bomber quite useless). Feint attacks and the subsequent 'watch for bomber!' elements are pretty important ones IMO.
3) In an 8 player game where only 2 players are playing, it would be nice to use the F8 and F9 slots.
4) Bring back the teamchat/allchat shortcuts introduced with newkeys! Or integrate newkeys into the release.
We're trying to nail down the cause of those late joiner resynchs. Maybe we'll have to turn joins off for now once in-game as a work-around until we find it.
I hate jammers.
Ah, I love jammers. :)
There needs to be a counter to the jammer, though. A "jammer jammer", to jam the dam jammers.
Maybe it could be a "jammer spammer", that just floods it with unwanted emails until it shuts down...
Seriously, though, the jammer as a total block has been complained about in the past by MP players. I'm not sure what options are available via ODF but it would be nice if it could be set to discrete jamming abilities. Maybe something like
jamsTLI = true/false
jamsreticule = true/false
jamsmenu = true/false
jamsbomber = true/false
Something along those lines... otherwise it'll be a balance issue, and the price/number of jammers can be tweaked after release.
-Av-
The best counter to a jammer is some hot biometal slag from a Sabre.
Don't scouts target things protected by jammers? If so, maybe a greater ai range for the scouts may be a good counter.
AI range wouldnt be the most useful thing since any scout that gets near a protected jammer is zapped within 5 seconds by a spire. But using AI scouts to paint jammed buildings seems like a good solution. I will have to try testing as well, to see if relay bunkers have any effect on jammers.
I believe ai scouts can paint structures protected by jammers. The only problem is getting a scout close enough the jammer to do any good.
Usually AI scouts will paint vehicles before they paint buildings, at least that's what I've observed. When no enemy vehicles within the scout's radar fence is sensed, then I guess buildings are next. It also depends on the scout's position to the enemy jammer(s), so you have to find those sweet spots as jammers have their own radial interference fence (interferfence?).  And a nice way to paint multiple targets is to have different AI scouts at different positions around enemy base. Again it all depends where enemy jammers are located I guess.
Yeah, ISDF comm bunkers do affect jammers (but probably not the way you want them to?), especially when they are several hundred meters away (the trick is getting close enough to build one, heh). This works when you yourself are in satellite mode and wish to see parts of the enemy. When a relay is built, you will even see the jammer objects (in sat mode). Unfortunately any targetable enemy is still untargetable unless you use a full AI scout nearby. I haven't tried it where I'm physically (actually "virtually", hah) at the enemy base with a commbunker nearby, so I don't know if it will target anything. I suppose bunkers are meant to work inclusively with satellites and may become a balance issue if they suddenly start painting enemy on your hud, especially when it takes many shots to destroy them (as opposed to jammers).
This is all in reference to 1.3pb3, in IA mode, but I believe I've seen it in MPI and ST (which I rarely do). I wasn't directly focusing on these issues, so I'm only going on what I recall. It should probably work in earlier bz2's (pb2, pb1, 1.2, etc). And I haven't read the 1.3 changelog in awhile either, so can't say if anything's changed with respect to this discussion.
Edit:
Oh and I second having Newkeys as part of 1.3! I don't know if DB, GSH or whomever will be opposed to that.
And yes, Scouts are the counter to the jammer.
Only full scouts are. Empty scouts use a different aiprocess which I always found odd. I think they use sentryprocess.
Quote from: Commando on June 06, 2007, 01:00:36 AM
Only full scouts are. Empty scouts use a different aiprocess which I always found odd. I think they use sentryprocess.
Exactly and that's what I said in my 2nd paragraph, above "full AI scout". I think it should stay that way, as empties aren't meant to be fully equipped, and I'm sure Pandemic was wise to do so.
My coment was a respnose to Overmind's coment. Just clarifying that it is only Full scouts that counter the jammer.
Quote from: Commando on June 06, 2007, 02:04:21 AM
My coment was a respnose to Overmind's coment. Just clarifying that it is only Full scouts that counter the jammer.
Yes, I know. I was clarifying your clarification with what I already clarified, i.e. "On your six!".
I'm confused.
You're just not used to so much clarity,
which is a rarity,
at least around hereity... er?
:lol:
-Av-
And that is the verity.
I was wondering if someone could elaborate on a strategy to counter a Scion Base Defense with a Jammer. I read that scouts are a counter to the Jammer, but I dont see how you would be able to get in close enough for that to have any effect, as soon as you get with in range of their guard towers its over. Since I cant target the enemy buildings having a scout paint the buildings for targeting could work but wouldnt they get taken out before you had time to do anything, it seems like a pretty complicated way of doing it as it is..
It seems like a jammer has serious balance issues... but I having figured out to how to counter them in a IA or MPI game..
jammers or not unbalanced. since you can't get close to buildings, you target spires, take out defenses with sabres and rocket tanks with the target given by scouts, then direct bomber and everything else to buildings as targets become closer and closer to main targets like matriarch. don't forget you can redirect bomber in-route in 1.3pb3, so as you clear targets ahead of it's flight, you can give it a new target mid-flight. it's step by step just like taking out defenses vs ISDF then their base. Don't forget that rocket tanks with hornet don't need a target to just start shooting at the closest thing in range. and as thugs swarm your offense that missle scouts with shadower missles to protect rocket tanks works very nicely.
and Sp tanks my man, all the way, they'll absolutley level an AI base. just send a couple squads in, while they're distracting, take out the jammers, and then you can coordinate the attack.
Thanks guys, both good ideas, I did use scouts and they worked great for painting targets. thanks for the help.
Quote from: Zero Angel on June 05, 2007, 04:31:53 AM
Game started out as usual, mostly involving dueling for control of the field with scouts and turrets. I tried to hover the enemy turrets but was unable to really do any damage with a minigun scout, instead having to resort to a gambit of hiding behind a pool while i moved my own into place. It worked. Later attempts at hovering were not the most successful, so I had to wait until tanks.
You do realize that while hovering doesn't work, circle strafing, ala BZ1 style does work, right?
Scouts don't need to be in Gun Spire range to target things, they automatically target anything within their (450m) radar range.
ZA; are you in the 1.3 beta?
I thought he was at one point, but he doesn't appear to be in now. If he was in, he probably left when all the other vets did.
This is a bit old, but jammers can be beaten pretty easily. Assault blast on a walker does quite well, as does having a friend paint the enemy recycler early on. With an AI scout you can paint the spires, though I don't think you can kill the buildings. The best strategy if scions spend a lot of scrap on jammers is to take the field with rocket tanks and turrets, or have a few missile scouts follow your tank to win fights there and starve the enemy. ISDF turtle far better than scion, and can break one better too. You can send in apcs, and if the enemy doesn't know how to stop them then they are kinda screwed. Scions don't really have an effective anti air defense like the isdf does, so jammers are needed for that.
But if you don't have the field and can't make rocket tanks, then you are kinda screwed.
What map was it btw?
It was 2 months ago, i doubt he remembers :P
You never know...
He also might have a log.
It was remnant. The enemy cmdr had his secondary pool protected by spires and jammers so I was unable to bomb it, nor outrange it with rckt tanks. (Scions can easily survive on two pools, they just need to be effective with scavengers.) The enemy commander was arcing my turrets and sending scavs to clean up the loose. He forced me to fight for his 3rd pool since his base was jamming and rendering my attacks non-effective. I sent walkers at his base but they didnt stand a chance against so many gunspires. I did not try using hornet tanks like I probably should have, the rocket tanks I did have on the field were shadower/salvo ones designed to protect the turrets from arc cannon and mauler attacks.
Good grief. Ever think of going on a game show? You'd clean up.
The rocket tanks are good with hornet, but you need a few with salvo mixed in. Hornet isn't too effective on spires, but if you use the 400m range glitch then scions are kinda doomed. Walkers should have no problem with spires, they just need a human pilot. They have assault guns and cannons so you can pretty much destroy everything with the blast without getting into the spire's range. Rocket tanks and chain rats help greatly here to cover you, salvo and chain for maulers and shads for blink help.
I'm assuming mdm didn't work because the enemy has sonic, though it is quite hard to defend a spire unless you aim well.
Also, a group of missile scouts with shadower are cheap and very effective in 1.3, they have good aim, you can pump them with a few upgrades and rape warriors nicely. Cheaper than rocket tanks and faster to respond too.
If you knew about the scout trick it probably would have helped you, you could at least bomb the spires, but even so you could just bomb his third pool to at least keep him on two. You also could have tried to tug the bomb, but that almost certainly would not have worked even with how amusing it would have been.
With the painting trick, you could have sent in some apcs against the spires, the pilots would have kept shooting at other things randomly even if not at the jammer. bomb one side, apc the other then mdm the con to piss him off :P
Scions have counters to most of these, though bomber is hardest. You need to shoot the bomb or bomber, both aren't easy. Against an apc raid static and acid destroys them, acid is slower and you need to have an archer on the bay first. Acid also destroys light armor, like service trucks, so the walker can be countered by that, but if he didn't put an archer on the bay then you have nothing to worry about. You could also try to paint the archer and bomb it, but that is harder.
Interesting tricks! I'll be sure to try a few of these if I strat again in 1.3. As far as sending in APC's you need to have a working targeting system to be able to do that, after all if you can send in APC's you can certainly send the bomber in. The AI scout method doesnt work, since scouts only paint the closest thing. This includes scavengers. On that game my enemy was sending out a lot of scavengers so scout targeting was totally ineffective.
A mortar which deploys a short-range motiondetector would be a nice counter to the scion jammer, but its probably too radical to actually be added. When 1.3 goes final, some of us die-hard 1.2 players will be working on a recycler mod to further balance the game, perhaps I can add it in then.
As far as I can remember, Commando made a 1.2 rec. variant to try to make 1.3 more playable for vets.
I also made a rec. variant to try to address the problem by boosting empty scouts to have greater speed and health (to compensate for a lack of flying), and added empty sabre/warrior that could survive long enough to knock out jammers and the like.
Oh well, it was worth a try. :wink:
Know how an AI Archer will land *right in front of your defenses* when told to attack and then get blown up before they even hit the ground? Well, call me a masochist, but I altered mine to have a 550m range and now they work very well, like the Howies. Introduces a nice sense of panic. :-o
Also made some custom ones that have a modified Popper to counter the Bomber. The Bomber still gets his load off, but he gets his feathers singed (and sometimes dead).
I know, I know, talking about Strat, but having an Archer that delivers from a safe distance - with range - and some air defense makes a heckuva difference.
You can't kill a few scavs? MDM really works wonders on them :wink:
It seems to me that you weren't able to have total control of the field, and this is where your problems stemmed from. If you had a more competent teammate, or if it was a 1v1 then maybe, but jammers are designed as a weak unit to give the scions some automated defense against the bomber. Archers don't work that well with popper after it was nerfed in 1.2, so scions had nothing while isdf has hornet rocket tanks, and those work very well against everything air.
Next time you're gonna play send me a message in the chat, I might be able to join you.
That actually goes for everyone really :-P
Quote from: Spawn on August 20, 2007, 05:33:41 PM
You can't kill a few scavs? MDM really works wonders on them :wink:
It seems to me that you weren't able to have total control of the field, and this is where your problems stemmed from. If you had a more competent teammate, or if it was a 1v1 then maybe, but jammers are designed as a weak unit to give the scions some automated defense against the bomber. Archers don't work that well with popper after it was nerfed in 1.2, so scions had nothing while isdf has hornet rocket tanks, and those work very well against everything air.
Next time you're gonna play send me a message in the chat, I might be able to join you.
That actually goes for everyone really :-P
Listen here ignoramus. I have been playing real strats for years, and i'm aware of the basic tactics of killing things. Have you thought that simply killing his scavs would not occur to me?
When the enemy is scav pumping on an upgrade, and you are facing him 1v1 or 2v2, you really dont have the time to spend manually killing all his scavengers while also trying to kill his base. Especially given that he can produce faster than you can MDM them. On a 3v3, 4v4 certainly killing scavs is a trival task, but when your trying to dedicate all your efforts to cracking a base using ineffective mortar/bombing tactics and trying not to get killed by a blink/arc warrior, you have better things to do then kill the enemy scavs as fast as he produces them.
Additionally, you are going to have a hard time killing scavengers which are within the enemy's defensive radius. The thing is if an enemy scav is even 30m outside of the enemys furthest base building they still get painted by your scout, and at that range the bomber is totally ineffective. Got it? Multiply that by 5 or 6, add in the complexity of running back to base for ammo. And you clearly have a picture of what its like to play a real human vs human strat.
I will not even address your other points, which are completely flawed.
And add me to MSN, I would certainly like to have a game with you.
It was a joke man :P
Anyway, a group of trucks in the field is often much faster than the bay, both in healing rate and how you don't need to run back to base. A few rocket tanks and chain rats to defend them. Possibly avengers too in 1.3. If you could try sending the scout in on a suicide mission, and see if it paints something then.
Don't think I am a 1.3 noob either, I was born on 1.2 and spend time there, though FE is my favorite, almost nobody who plays ZST has it.
then spread the welth :)
Quote from: Spawn on August 20, 2007, 08:03:08 PM
It was a joke man :P
I know. I was only pointing out what I would say if I *was* a jerk. But i'm not.
I'm nice. :-P (Nice at being mean hehe)
I love you ZA
And your text is the same color as the background, don't do that.
very well thought out za, i am very impressed (not cause it is a good answer on a simple problem, but) because the point of view taken at a positive thinking (even writen in an agitated tone :) )...that can make a big difference in cmding skillz...
Quotefew rocket tanks and chain rats to defend them
i'd have to saw u have disappointed me spawn, if you have enough scrap to get suffience equipement, you should no waste time worring about defending every bit such as service trucks, this is a negative thinking...worring about what bad might happen...if you oppenent will waste scrap and time going after them while your killing his base, the let him...your mdm's will tear apart what little d they have while he is hitting your loose scrap producers (service trucks)...I purposely leave upgrades and trucks alone as distractions, when i take this *scrap loss*, he will take a devistating blow to his base, just make sure the loose doesn't get to goto him...This mind set i talk about is a basic skill, that makes the difference between a vet cmder and a elite cmder...loss is nothing if they take a bigger loss, it is like chess...what looks good might not be good...
...you know how to command?
no way spawn, in almost 8 years of gameplay i don't know how to cmd... :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o
btw: i made this account forever ago...i need to find out how to change my name to *GEL*Avenger
Thats surprising, not knowing how to command after eight years :P
Anyway, the rocket tanks and rats are more your mobile attack force, though rats are more for just annoyance. Rocket tanks are there because they will stop a mauler and blinkers, but I do go insane on defense quite often. One time I had three walkers standing on the recycler, with the rest of the unit limit going to rocket tanks and blast ass tanks.
I never figured you for the defense type.
Well, eventually in that game apc got fed up with me keeping him on one pool while not actually attacking and "gave up" so I moved everything into his base.
Hah, APC still plays? I recall battling him on a 4-way map on PB2. When I was distracted by another opponent he crushed my base with guess what?
A bunch of APC's. :-D
Where is he?? I miss him.
He played a bunch of mpi's with me into the spring, before I discovered that G66 worked on pb3. He mentioned something about having "done that before" when I started to play the same map for the fortieth time on extreme and haven't seen him since.
That was a long while ago. Seen him a few times on msn, but not for a bit.
Quotebut I do go insane on defense quite often
yea, but that could lose a game for ya...it really is surprizing some of the combacks in vet games where one team just built too much defense, while the other team cut defense to catch up and pass in the offense...i just beat -}GoD{-WeZ on the very same tactic...very close game, and very fun though...
which build do u like best spawn...
offensive:
power, fac, arm, bay...chian and las scouts... <--well rounded
defensive:
power, fac, bay, relay...pump out pulse tanks... <--mostly feild control and fighting...slower build process...
i am just asking in general...not very many ppl talk about the difference between these 2 main strats anymore...
Yeah thats true. I can recall a few games where I built too many rats, but enemy got to chains first and just tore up my defense. So its not always really playing it safe, especially if the enemy has the capability to kill all your pools and scavs faster and collect the loose from that, they can just catch up real easily on defense. You could go for a GT as well but theres a lot of risk involved and you really have to keep the enemy busy or they will hit the cons and stop your entire building process.
1.3 will probably change this a little since theres less risk involved as you cant hover rats easily anymore, and need to get mortars to really kill base rats, or possibly have a full team base hit and get the rats before they can finish off one of the attackers.
Pulse tanks are really useful if you already went for gts and got them up, usually its just laser and chains.
BBR once told me that the tech level of the two teams will stay about the same with good commanders, taking more time to get blast out when you're winning means the enemy will also take more time.
Quote from: *GEL*Avenger on August 29, 2007, 04:51:43 PM
Quotebut I do go insane on defense quite often
yea, but that could lose a game for ya...it really is surprizing some of the combacks in vet games where one team just built too much defense, while the other team cut defense to catch up and pass in the offense...i just beat -}GoD{-WeZ on the very same tactic...very close game, and very fun though...
which build do u like best spawn...
offensive:
power, fac, arm, bay...chian and las scouts... <--well rounded
defensive:
power, fac, bay, relay...pump out pulse tanks... <--mostly feild control and fighting...slower build process...
i am just asking in general...not very many ppl talk about the difference between these 2 main strats anymore...
You guys are talking about pulse tanks in 1.3 right? Because I've tried using PL/Las tanks in ISDF v ISDF and they dont seem to work well (at least in 1.2), and most thugs dont know how to use them.
I know that they can be employed in ISDF vs Scion matches as a well-rounded dogfighting tank with minor pool hitting capabilities (ISDF tanks vs Scions dont need major pool hitting capability since they can hold the field very well vs scions if they can prevent them from morphing and taking the front line pools). You only need about 2 laser scouts to be effective vs a scion team, with an UG you can equip your whole team in about 30 seconds, without an UG but with loose scrap you can go for the PL/Las tanks.
Also take into account that if you have scavs on the field slurping up all the loose, then you can get a tech quicky for only 25 scrap more than a cheap PL/Las tank. Thats why IMO they arent used often at all. Its too easy to get tech by the time tanks become available. Would be nice though for pulse stabs to do slightly more splash damage vs light armours, but maybe thats already done in 1.3.
No, we mean in 1.2.
Very good against laser, or when your team already has an edge and you dont want to force the enemy to blast.
Give a pulse take to someone in gel...then comment if they are not effienct...
QuoteBBR once told me that the tech level of the two teams will stay about the same with good commanders, taking more time to get blast out when you're winning means the enemy will also take more time.
well, i'd have to say not true...it works in the other thinking direction, if you build less d, the other team will cut d to keep up the pace...if you take more time, you must make sure the other team isn't cutting d...if they are, you must put pressure on thier base, or face a more efficent team...Kronic proved this true, when he brought back and did the 1 turret and rush to arm hit base strat...cmders had to change there way of thinking...he wasn't doing any scrap manage for furture, just put it all on table for knocking out 2 or 3 turrets and hitting rec...
Quote from: Zero Angel on August 29, 2007, 10:32:09 PM
You guys are talking about pulse tanks in 1.3 right? Because I've tried using PL/Las tanks in ISDF v ISDF and they dont seem to work well (at least in 1.2), and most thugs dont know how to use them.
I know that they can be employed in ISDF vs Scion matches as a well-rounded dogfighting tank with minor pool hitting capabilities (ISDF tanks vs Scions dont need major pool hitting capability since they can hold the field very well vs scions if they can prevent them from morphing and taking the front line pools). You only need about 2 laser scouts to be effective vs a scion team, with an UG you can equip your whole team in about 30 seconds, without an UG but with loose scrap you can go for the PL/Las tanks.
Also take into account that if you have scavs on the field slurping up all the loose, then you can get a tech quicky for only 25 scrap more than a cheap PL/Las tank. Thats why IMO they arent used often at all. Its too easy to get tech by the time tanks become available. Would be nice though for pulse stabs to do slightly more splash damage vs light armours, but maybe thats already done in 1.3.
I retract my previous comment about PL/Las tanks for the simple reason that I recently commanded a game where I went for Power/Fact/Bay/Relay/GTowers (bypassing arm) to stop the enemy team from hovering my base (and killing my turrets faster than I could build them)
The arm wasnt gonna help immediately, so I got thugs to defend base with laser. DS asked for a tank, so I gave him a Pulse/Las/Mortar/Prox tank (the best you can make without arm) and he managed to kill two opponents and give me some breathing room. Mi$ty got a faf missile scout because I forgot that you cant get shads until armory. :-P
So you really can get PL/Las tanks quicker if you skip building an armoury. But its still not worthy to become a main strategy IMO, otherwise you would see people doing this all the time. I would file it under 'Plan B'. :-)
Quote from: *GEL*Avenger on September 03, 2007, 04:56:20 AM
Give a pulse take to someone in gel...then comment if they are not effienct...
QuoteBBR once told me that the tech level of the two teams will stay about the same with good commanders, taking more time to get blast out when you're winning means the enemy will also take more time.
well, i'd have to say not true...it works in the other thinking direction, if you build less d, the other team will cut d to keep up the pace...if you take more time, you must make sure the other team isn't cutting d...if they are, you must put pressure on thier base, or face a more efficent team...Kronic proved this true, when he brought back and did the 1 turret and rush to arm hit base strat...cmders had to change there way of thinking...he wasn't doing any scrap manage for furture, just put it all on table for knocking out 2 or 3 turrets and hitting rec...
I agree. A lot of BZ2 is about how much pressure your able to apply. If your dominating the field, or are consistently running raids on the enemy base he has to react and be put onto the defensive. If you can maintain a high level of pressure against the enemy, then you can afford to skip building turrets and go straight for fast chains or fast laser. If the commanders are equal than the game is put into the hands of their thugs, which ones can put the most pressure against the enemy. The team that puts the highest amount of pressure on the enemy can afford to bypass defenses and go straight for fast chains or fast las, thats the team that usually wins.
This is why commanders like BB are so good, its because they know how to work the pressure and have their thugs apply it so they can get to fast chains and fast lase and be able to apply even MORE pressure.
On the other hand, If you are pressuring the field, and you build a bunch of rats instead, then the enemy team will catch up to you on the tech tree and might even get to chains first, its a gamble because if they get to chains/las first, it wont matter if you have 5 turrets, if they have a competent team of base hitters then your rats are going to be toast. Its a gamble either way, the stakes are dependent on how much pressure you can keep on the enemy and whether your team can maintain the the pressure even when your base is under heavy attack. (ie: if all four of you are tied up defending base, and the enemy is running a 3-man raid with one guy on pools, then youre gonna lose, because your not applying any pressure to the enemy)