I have discovered a few things about this advanced 3d modeler, but seem to have some difficulty repeating the same thing I did before after a few days away from using it. My goal to make 3d objects gleaned from drawing out enclosed line and vertex connected shape and then trying to fill them to make a solid planar outline is quite a challenge to repeat. There are 2 basic ways to create these types of shapes. The first is in editmode using ctrl+lmb and the second is possible by adding a Bezier curve and then selecting the poly button on the menu box at the bottom of the screen. I managed to fill using both methods but soon forgot the buttons needed after taking a break for a few days basically forgot how I did it? I've begun sticking some labels on my keyboard to help me remember stuff a bit more easily. Boy do I sincerely miss the simplicity of GSL; strangely, I find myself drawn back to it time and time again still kind of like a moth to a flame. Here's a pic of my first blender created model (a flying type).
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Sorry if I'm not following what you are saying here. Are you wanting to basically make an outline of an object using just vertices and then fill in the space between the vertices?
Dia
You mean like Google Sketchup or Rino 3D's Curves?
Sketchup is nice if you can afford to get the Pro version, since it exports to 3ds.
VSMIT.
By outline, I mean, for example...say I have a piece of paper representing the 3d workspace, and I take a pencil and draw out 4 dots and then use the pencil to connect the dots with lines. In B3d's case this is done by pressing ctrl+lmb, positioning the dot where I want it and repeating this as many time as necessary to form a completely enclosed flat object; do you understand now DIA? Afterwords, the method I remember using was to select all with akey and then fkey to fill the outline with faces, but it doesn't always work consistently in B3d. However, if it does fill with faces then selecting extrude from the menu allows me to expand the selected object into an actual 3d object. Once that's done then I use scale tool from the menu options to slope the top group of faces to form a sloped surface. The problem is like I mentioned before is that B3d is kind of flaky when I try to repeat the same thing again.
As a simpler contrast to the way GSL handles the same operations is as follows: select the polyline tool draw out the flat shape, use the sweep tool to add volume to the flat shape, right click the object and select the top face, select the rescale tool, hold both the lmb+rmb and drag the mouse to form the sloped surface. This method works consistently in GSL, but B3d's method seems to only work sometimes; probably due to some minor bug in the tools that are used to do the operations described above. I'm still working with B3d as I'm assuming that I'll eventually get a better understanding of the modeler as time progresses, but I still find myself gravitating back to GSL for it's sheer no brainer simplicity. I've learned to model quite efficiently with it after only a short period of learning how it works.
What I may end up doing in the short term is making the basic models in GSL and then importing them into B3d as either x or asc formats as both modelers support these common 3d formats. Afterwords I can attempt actually animating them using B3d's animation tools, texturing them, and finally exporting them using OM's xsi exporter. This way I wouldn't have to learn too much about B3d to try OM's exporter out.
Theoretically, doing things this way would be more efficient as any 3d modeler (that you like using) could be used in conjunction with B3d to produce animated models for the game and then converting them with OM's xsi exporter. I envision it like this: make all the objects in your favorite 3d modeler, glue them together, but don't add any animation elements at that point. Then save them in a format that both your modeler and B3d support. Then import them into B3d and add the animation at that point, texture them if you haven't already done it in your modeler. Now test the animation in B3d and if it looks okay then export the finally model as xsi, create a modified odf file for your model, and then test it out in the BZII map editor. Does this simple logic make any sense? Guess I'll have to try it out and see what happens...BNG
I started working with blender again. The key to working with it seems to be to walk away from it for a while when I get frustrated and pickup where I left off before. What I found very useful is the option to use the 3d manipulator gizmo to move points around. The gkey to grab objects and the rkey to rotate stuff, and the skey to scale object as well. After awhile many of the letter key thingy's begin to make logic sense as blender doesn't use a hell of a lot of icons for it's modeling tools. I think I finally figured out how to consistently fill face now. Apparently, it wasn't a bug rather more of operator error on my part to completely connect all the dots together to form an enclosed edge ring and then hitting the fkey. The extrusion tool is fairly easy to use as well and can be selected by axis through the menu options, or by hitting the ekey on the keyboard. I guess the more I use blender the more comfortable the going will get. PS: Aparently, the wheel on my mouse has a second function I discovered recently; by pressing down on it it mimics the function of a middle button useful for rotating the 3d workspace oof the current window I'm working in at the time. Multiple windows are also useful for seeing the model from several different angles and I currently have 3 that I like to use when modeling...BNG
Hey this is cool...to rotate an object on a specific axis press the rkey then the x y or z key to rotate on that axis. Sounds like a modeler could almost make a model just using the alphabet...lol
if you master it BNG feel free to post a tutorial :D
I'll probably never master Blender, but once I understand how to do animations then Blender seems like the logical choice as GSL directx animations are limited to 8 frames of conversion using 3DEX 1.5.5 Jam. Blender seems optimized for modeling pros who understand far more then my level of knowledge. GSL, is more to my liking though for most of my modeling needs. I like simple stuff so that I can focus more on creating stuff for the game rather then spending a ton of time scratching my head with overly complicated 3d applications. May I ask what 3d modeler you currently use? GSL, is my current favorite, but I'm always looking for something better if a new modeler becomes available...BNG
And if people actually start using my exporter and telling me what is wrong then I can finish up fixing it. :P
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If GSL works out for me, I might try using blender for animating and exporting. I've just about given up on using blender to model. That interface has got to be the most alien thing I've ever tried to use.
Yea, it is designed for modelers who prefer to do everything by touch rather than sight, you can work much *much* faster that way, but it involves learning it first. :)
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I know that I've mentioned it in the past, but I think the route to take (short term) is to make models in your favorite 3d modeler along with the animations you want to do, and then more or less import them into Blender for conversion to XSI with OM's BZII exporter. This way, having to learn Blender functions would be very minimal upfront, and your favorite modeler which you already understand comfortably would allow you to use Blender as more or less just a XSI conversion utility; somewhat like 3DEX/BZ2ME only much more capable down the road.
One drawback I already see is that once animated models are converted using OM's converter is that you would not be able to directly redit them again in Blender as the XSI format that it writes out is apparently incompatible with any of the current geometry editing tools currently available.
Hopefully OM might at some point in the future add a BZII XSI importer for Blender to overcome this issue. This would also allow modelers to tweak/redit their models in Blender making it more useful as a primary modeler over what they currently prefer. Just some food for thought at this point.
I do not entirely see the point of an importer. The xsi format looses information anyway, thus it is always best to keep it in a different format, like Blender's native format.
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Agreed. Games are moving more and more away from supporting "raw" file formats, and towards using "munged" assets. At work, all our artists create .tga files all day, but we convert those into modified-DXT formats for the game to use. The artists never make a DXT directly; they just re-convert things. Same with models, etc.
The DXTGen program for BZ2 is a step in this direction. 1.3pb3 and 1.3pb4 still support reading in .bmp/.pic/.tga, as well as .dxtbz2. It would simplify things a decent amount in the future if I made it support reading *only* .dxtbz2 format. Modders would just need to keep their "raw" assets, and export to .dxtbz2 when needed. I can see .xsi support doing the same thing -- make BZ2 only support reading raw .msh, and have an offline converter.
-- GSH
That is the common way to do it now, not just where you are from what I have seen.
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I know it's more work to create an XSI importer, but there isn't really a single decent application to work with existing XSI files and this is especially true for working with the data pack XSI files from BZSCRAP.COM. I have to convert any I'd like to use to another format like COB or X or 3DS. The animated files never translate correctly and end up with non animated XSI conversions. Also from what I've seen with your XSI variant there's really no viable way to examine the files short of within the BZII map editor.
It's not really all that big of a deal, I guess any changes could be done to the Blend file and then just overwrite the XSI file again to make changes as needed.
On that note, OM, are there any import settings in Blender, specifically for .x? I'm able to import stock .xsi models into Blender using the .x importer but, all frames are renamed to default names and the order of hierarchy is completely eliminated. Is there a way to prevent that from happening?
Not a clue, I deal with the OgreMesh format, and BZ2's .mesh format, I do not really like the others due to a lack of solidarity.
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Ugh. My kingdom for a .xsi importer/exporter. Seriously, I don't think this stuff could possibly be more complicated.
BNG, didn't you find a way to import .xsi into GSL? I can't get it to work right, all I get when importing is a flat plane made of a tangle of polygons.
A couple of months late and a dollar short, but there's no way to directly import XSI files into GSL or TS 3.2. Alternate ways would be to use 3DEX to batch convert the data pack XSI's to another format like 3DS, COB, OBJ, LWO, etc.
Don't convert to X as GSL can save to an X version that Threed seems to love. Another drawback to GSL is that models of more then 650 faces can't be saved again. However, one workaround wold be to edit the high poly model down by reducing the poly count by selectively using the delete vertices's tool in the edit menu of GSL.
From what I've noticed all of the data pack files are triangulated which effectively doubles the poly count. Right clicking an object in GSL automatically enters into the edit menu. Also, after reducing the poly count you can open the X save options prior to saving the model as X and uncheck the option to triangulate the model.
I've used the object library feature in GSL to dissect and save BZII models as separated objects after creating a new folder named after the model itself. Then in the scene editor selected each part individually adding them to the new folder allowing me to build vast object libraries of all the BZII models.
Another, side benefit with GSL is the key frame editor in GSL easily allows me to create animation sequences, save them as X files, then convert them to animated XSI models, and with a little notepad editing magic of cut and paste;I've already produced several crudely animated models. I still don't really know what the hell I'm doing, but eventually my goal is to get animations working in the game...BNG.