I've been trying to figure out how animations work in .xsi and .x format but I haven't been able to decipher much so far. I know there are a few people around here who like to animate in notepad so I was hoping they could give an explanation of the different numbers in the animation sets.
Here's an example from the power generator, the spinning turbine inside of it:
AnimationSet {
Animation anim-turbine {
{frm-turbine}
SI_AnimationKey {
0;
6;
1; 4; 1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000;;,
8; 4; 0.758758, 0.000000, -0.651373, 0.000000;;,
9; 4; 0.688967, -0.000000, -0.724793, -0.000000;;,
24; 4; -0.688967, -0.000000, -0.724793, -0.000000;;,
25; 4; 0.758758, 0.000000, 0.651373, 0.000000;;,
31; 4; 0.994869, 0.000000, 0.101169, 0.000000;;;
I know that it uses a matrix to move, rotate and scale the object but, I don't understand those first two columns of numbers.
Also, what modeling programs (aside from Softimage and Threed) can import .xsi files?
What's it called? Deep Exploration? 3D Explorer? I used that program at one time to help me convert .xsi to .3ds.
Well, im not an expert notepad animator, but i was taught the basic layout.... here is a full layout:
the first number (0,1, or 2) Defines the type of animation. 0 is for a rotation, 1 for a movement, and 2 for scaling (only natural with custom 3ds Max animations, i have never seen a .xsi with it for bz2 thusfar)
the second number is the amount of animation keypoint. these tell what the animation to do at a certain time.
The numbers after are the keypoint details. the first number in the row being the time at which it is commenced, the second being the amount of coordinates used in the animation (rotations are the only ones that use 4) the third through fifth in movement being the x,y and z coordinate (I cant remember the order) and in rotation the 4 numbers have to do with the pure direction and movement of the rotation.
For more info, contact either GBD or Twosheds.
AnimationSet {
Animation anim-turbine {
{frm-turbine}
SI_AnimationKey {
0; [b] Type of animation? 0 is normal i belive for movement code?[/b]
6; [b] Numer of lines in animation code, must match number of lines below[/b]
1; 4; 1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000;;,
8; 4; 0.758758, 0.000000, -0.651373, 0.000000;;,
9; 4; 0.688967, -0.000000, -0.724793, -0.000000;;,
24; 4; -0.688967, -0.000000, -0.724793, -0.000000;;,
25; 4; 0.758758, 0.000000, 0.651373, 0.000000;;,
31; 4; 0.994869, 0.000000, 0.101169, 0.000000;;;
The lines are in order of this: first number is the number of miliseconds the animation will last. 1 is 0.1 seconds (i think), etc... The Second number is the number of sections following it in the line. the next 3 or 4 lines, depending on how many there are, are movement coordinates. (this appears to be a rotational animation), usually the first number is 1.0, i'm not sure what it is, but it probably calls for the scale of the animation.
The following 3 numbers are X Y and Z coordinates. tweak with these to get the part to move to the position u want it at.
AnimationSet {
Animation anim-engine {
{frm-engine}
SI_AnimationKey {
0;
3;
0; 4; 1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, -0.100000;;,
1; 4; 1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000;;,
2; 4; 1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.100000;;;
}
}
when this type of animation, a fin animation, is in play, there is a bit of "differance" in the number lines. The first line is the "forward" anim, the middle is neutral, the 3rd is "reverse" animation. This changes depending on wich way your ship is moving. These are most common animations in vehicles.
Animation anim-lleg {
{frm-lleg}
SI_AnimationKey {
2;
4;
0; 3; -1.500000, 0.949000,-2.200000;;,
10; 3; -2.650000, -1.150000, -2.200000;;,
15; 3; -2.650000, -1.150000, -2.200000;;;
30; 3; -2.650000, -1.150000, -2.200000;;;
}
}
This is a MOVEMENT type animation. This differes in the animation type number (2) and the number of digits in the lines. There are only 3, X, Y, and Z position coordinates. This is how much the object MOVES within the given TIME per line.
Think that's bout it. If you have any questions about animation code, post the code with the question, and i'll try to explain.
Could you explain what different types of animation there are and which numbers to use for them in the first row?
Also, what restrictions are there on the Deep Exploration free trial version? I think I might use that to get a better look at the xsi animations.
I'm not sure on all of them, What I do is find a stock animation that works in the same way, open that xsi in notepad, copy the animation and tweak it from there.
as for 3d exploration...hmm. I might can help you, you got a messenger?
In the example below, are all of the 0's required, or can they be illiminated to acheive the same result in the XSI file? Just wondered if it would make any difference for a modeler wanting to simplfy the editing in notepad.
Example: 1; 4; 1.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000, 0.000000;;,
Proposed: 1; 4; 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0;;,
Would this work or would it screw up things for the BZ engine?
I'm not sure, But I always make sure the numbers have 6 digits after the decimal.
You could try it, it might work, it might not. I know Threed (crappy PoS) cuts off the 0's, and sometimes changes them to something wierd like 1.0584e-35...wich may explain why most of the models saved in it are FUBAR.
Even then, I'm not sure how animation code would....respond to having it's 0's cut off.
Deep exploration, aka 3d exploration. I believe its version 5.5.50 that is best for bz2 as I've tried most of them.
Although its a legal trial version, it doesn't run out, you just have to restart the program every time you save.
Dutchboy had a repository of them somewhere... Failing that I've got it too, so does GBD by the sounds of things.
Dutch Boy's 3DX site (http://www.dutch-boy.com/3De/)
Why is it that I'm the one that always goes to look for it? :roll:
VSMIT.
Losing digits after the decimal point is probably perfectly safe, but why provoke the BZ2 .xsi importer any? It's already an ornery beast.
Values like 1.0584e-35 are essentially 0. That's how computers write 1.0584*10^(-35). Or, 0.000000000000000000000000000000000010584. Just that exponent notation is smaller/compacter, which is what you folks seem to be complaining about anyhow.
-- GSH
I'd say Threed is exporting the notation form rather than parsing it out to 0.000000, which is what the XSI should be...
-Av-
Quote from: Raven on March 27, 2008, 05:16:49 PM
Deep exploration, aka 3d exploration. I believe its version 5.5.50 that is best for bz2 as I've tried most of them.
Although its a legal trial version, it doesn't run out, you just have to restart the program every time you save.
Dutchboy had a repository of them somewhere... Failing that I've got it too, so does GBD by the sounds of things.
I don't see a 5.5.50 on DutchBoy's website. There is a 155(1.5.50?) on there, is that what you meant? I assume Deep exploration's website no longer carries the demo of the needed version?
I have the installer for the version I have still lying around. It annoys you by reminding you to go some place but other then that, it keeps working.
Thats the one :P
Yes! Thank you.
Finally, I can work with the with stock assets by converting them to .3ds and importing them into gmax.
Hmm... It doesn't seem able to show skeletal animations. Does anyone know if later versions can? And do later versions still limit the number of animation frames to 8(shows up as first 16 in gmax) when exporting?
they cant....... you can see it in the text, but explorer can view the animation at all......... which is strange really.
I think the xsis in the pack for the scions just doesn't like animation in general. You can see the hps moving, but nothing else. I tried to use the xsi mauler with a different skin in game, it converted to msh, but the head wouldn't turn at all...
VSMIT.
Pilots and Scions use Softimage's method of animating the verticies themselves, and from what I've found only the Pandemic Viewer or Softimage itself will show them. dx posted some info about the Pandemic exporter exporting such animation if a controller is used in Max, but I haven't had time to follow up on it.
-Av-
Changing the controller is how I got Max 6 to export normal BZ2 animated XSIs. Which one did he say to use?
TCB Animations, the original animation style of 3DS Max. :-D
(arent you glad im still around to answer that)
Well, I was saying how Max will do vertex animations in many ways but that they don't make it through the Pandemic exporter.
He said it should if you use a controller.
I never got around to testing it. Theoretically if I assign a controller to a set of verticies, I should be able to export it into an XSI...
*ears prick up*
now youve got my attention!!
Can these vertex animations be done in gmax, too?
And does anyone know of a tutorial for doing them?
As far as I know, any animation done in gmax is not exported, no matter what exporter you use. Especially since there is no XSI exporter.
VSMIT.
Quote from: VSMIT on April 01, 2008, 03:28:43 AM
As far as I know, any animation done in gmax is not exported, no matter what exporter you use. Especially since there is no XSI exporter.
VSMIT.
Of course there are exporters out there for gmax that can export animations :-P. Why else would gmax have animation capabilities; it's not like you can use it for making movies as it has no renderer as far as I can tell. The main problem is that most exporters I've found use unusual file formats used by games and I would like something that could be opened in Deep Exploration.
Shouldn't the Quake exporter export animations? I mean, quake models used animations, too, didn't they?
I just tried it and the animation did not export. Maybe, they use a specific way of animating?
What VSMIT meant was there is no way to get them to BZ2.
does it export to 3ds??
Nope. At least, it doesn't come with an exporter for .3ds. It can only import .3ds and .dxf which i've been using to import into gmax. Looking around, I see a few solutions for getting it to 3ds but, they all use some sort of MAXscript. Probably not too hard, but I'll keep looking.
If all else fails in the search for a viable way to do BZ2 animation seems to currently hinge on getting OM's Blender 3d's XSI exporter. You may try that route as testers are needed by OM to give him some feedback on what if anything needs to be changed in the python script he made to export animations directly into the game. So far participation has been minimal as from what I've discovered about B3d is that while it's a very capable 3d modeler it requires users with a longer attention span then I have personally. I made a few models with it, but I usually get lost at some point in the creation process and fall back to GSL a much simpler modeler for non-professionals like myself. Unfortunately, GSL is not well suited for converting X animations to a usable XSI animation sequence for BZ2. Still, I continue to tinker with B3d from time to time in an effort to eventually decode it's well kept secrets.
Yeah, I tried blender for a few moments once. It had a very different feel to it compared to Gmax or Cinema 4D. I guess I'll look into it but I'm not sure how well I can bug test OM's exporter as I don't have a known working method of exporting animations that I could compare it to.
Quote from: BNG Da BZ Fool on April 01, 2008, 11:29:56 PM
Unfortunately, GSL is not well suited for converting X animations to a usable XSI animation sequence for BZ2. Still, I continue to tinker with B3d from time to time in an effort to eventually decode it's well kept secrets.
Don't you just need to open the .x up in wordpad, switch a few sections around, rename a few frames, and post it in a .xsi? So far I've tried that with non-animated files but, looking at some animated .x files, the animation section looks almost identical to how it is in .xsi files.
The 2 formats seem to share quite a few similarities especially the X version that GSL saves in. The differences are quite substantial in that it requires changes that the average modeler would have some difficulties doing. Ironically, BZII does support one X format directly, but I've never gotten a knowledgeable explanation on the version number or model making application that supports the compatible X format. At this point it remains a mystery that hopefully will reveal itself for all to know.
One notable positive about 3DEX 1.5.5 is that it actually supports converting X files to XSI format which the previous version I have (version 1.5.0) did not. I now have another way of directly converting X to XSI using 1.5.5. I still use BZ2ME for adding hp_points and making sure the texture files are linked to my models, and to edit out the extra 0's that I guess GSL adds to the X files I save in. I just downloaded 3DEX 1.5.5, and have yet to do anything with it at present, but I'll begin some conversions to see how they fare when loaded into the BZII game map editor. If your looking for a good simple to use 3d modeler then add GSL to your other modeling tools. It's easier to master then GMAX and the UV map editor it uses is pretty simple to master as well. You can make high poly models with it but the free version has a 650 face limit for saving scene and objects.
One useful feature I've found is that of making a high poly model and rendering it to a BMP file using the Print-Screen button and then pasting it into my paint program for enhancement. I try not alter too many things from the rendered object, but do touch up the image somewhat before saving it to file. Then I open the map editor in GSL and then apply a simple planar mapping to my model which at this point needs poly reduction to get the poly count down to savable size, and then apply the texture skin to give the model greater detail. For example, I made a tracked tank complete with road wheels, track blocks, etc., the poly count was like 1124 faces. A bit too high to save as a single file, but this was mainly for the purpose of getting a rendered image to skin my tank afterwords. GSL, supports a cool feature called object libraries where individual models and parts can be saved for later reuse. After that I reedit my model and reduce excessive geometry into flat planes and then apply my render saved image to the now flat surfaces giving the model greater visual depth without a lot of polyies. And because the rendered image also contains the lighting effects of the original screen rendering the model looks a bit more 3d.
BZ2 supports the .Xdx6 file format, there is basically a new .x with each new DirectX version (well, up till 8 or so, then they finally started to try dropping that crap format, mainly only used in demo's now, no where else).
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Tanks OM, now I have something to search for more info on about the BZ compatible X format. There must be an older modeler still available out there that directly supports that version. Never really liked having to convert models files just to try to get them to work for the game. Seems like the more a model file is converted the more screwed up stuff gets in the translation.