I recently DL'ed both from MS to try out. Their' the Express versions and I was wondering if anyone could give some feedback as to which would be the most useful to learn to do stuff for the game? I also DL'ed the SDK for Directx dated April 2007 to try to decipher in terms of trying to figure out something about the supposedly compatible X format that BZII supports. Any feedback would help me to get on the right track for possibly adapting a compatible X exporter for a 3D program like Blender. I remember reading somewhere (Blender forum I think) that writing a Python script isn't all that difficult with the right parameter information. My thoughts on the issue tell me to try this on an existing X exporter by modifying it to conform to what the BZII engine needs to see to make it process the data for use in animated models for the game. So feel free to toss out any information you would like to share to assist me in this endevour...BNG.
C++ since the BZ2 DLLs are in C++ and the code is in project files for VS2005
Quite, the C++ is useful, and Basic is not used/useful for anything...
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Plus, you can get paid well for knowing C++. Basic?? Not so much.
Quote from: TheJamsh on May 01, 2008, 08:44:54 PM
OM sort that red cross out for youre avatar...
Er, what?
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Quote from: OvermindDL1 on May 02, 2008, 03:57:43 AM
Er, what?
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I think he must mean your avatar shows a broken image red X. For him at least, your avatar appears fine to me.
Visual Studio 2005 Express Edition does C++, is completely free, and enables you to build mission DLLs for BZ2. (It's not the only way of doing mission DLLs, to be sure, but it's an option.) Visual Basic might be useful for some 3rd party modeling programs, but I don't know which one(s) support it, and what they'd give you.
My general recommendation still stands: don't go collecting programs/technologies just because they exist. Getting good at one useful bit of technology is better than dabbling in a dozen. Quality > Quantity.
-- GSH
Quote from: OvermindDL1 on May 01, 2008, 07:35:19 PM
Quite, the C++ is useful, and Basic is not used/useful for anything...
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Um... not entirely. VBA is extremely useful in an Office environment. I almost owe my current job to my knowledge of VB, of which VBA is a subset and embedded in all Office Apps.
I feel confident that I could spreadsheet my way around OM, while he mangles me badly in every other programming arena... :)
-Av-
I meant it is useless for anything relating to BZ2. :)
And the Basic dialect in Office is different then normal Basic, so although the syntax may be similar, it would not really help you to learn real Basic when dealing with Office Basic.
And I doubt that, my Python scripting powers in OpenOffice have been put to the test at work (yes, we use OOo). :)
Scripting an Office app in Python is so much more simple, so fewer commands you have to call...
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Is Python more useful then C++ or Basic for doing stuff for BZII? What I'm really looking for is focusing my time resources to learning at least one programming language that would be of the greatest overall usefulness for BZII users like modders and such. Also, I have a great interest in finding ways to modify the currently incompatible directx/dotxsi formats to those supported by the game as there aren't (as many of you already know) many viable options for doing game animations on a budget as most modders have discovered so far. What I envision is eventually learning enough programming to write a simple file conversion utility to convert animated X files into usable animated XSI format, and possibly more down the road as my programming knowledge increases over time. Would really appreciate some knowledgeable feedback on which route to best take for getting some stuff done to assist modders wanting to animate stuff for our' beloved game. Don't really want to become a truly proficient programmer just enough to get some practical know how to be useful to the BZII community. What would be very cool would be to create a few more modding tools oriented around animation related tasks. I've discovered that there aren't many modeling programs currently available that make doing animation an easy task to accomplish for the average modder. Most of us don't really have a clue about many tasks used to mod for the game, and desperately need some simplified modding tools to make doing stuff for the game actually doable. Anyways, please feel free to post comments to help me look at the pros and cons for which language to focus on learning for making simple utility type programs oriented towards BZII modding stuff. PS: For those who have taken the time in the past to create the current set of modding tools have my profound gratitude...BNG
Gosh, I wish you would use more white space. Gives me a headache trying to read all that bunched together. So I don't. I just read the first sentence or so and quit.
Learning C++ will give you the most benefit, both for BZ2 and for $$$.
Visual is FREE !?! I WISH I KNEW THAT BEFORE...
The readme files for 1.3pb3's DLLs note that the Visual Studio Express Editions are quite free, and are fully functional for making BZ2 DLLs. Heck, my laptop's got 2005EE on it, and has made private builds for testers when I've been off on vacation. As the readme says:
Quote
If you do not have VS.NET, there is a free download from
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/ . You may also need the
platform sdk from
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=A55B6B43-E24F-4EA3-A93E-40C0EC4F68E5&displaylang=en
. If you want to develop your own games, you may want to also
download the DirectX SDK from http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/sdk/
For more info about how to download & install these, please see some
good reference sites like
http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/FreeVS2005Win32.asp
(The platform SDK has some convoluted steps to install, unfortunately)
VS2008's Express Editions bundle the Platform SDK, thankfully, but the install of the redistributable files is a bit of a pain for 2005SP1/2008.
-- GSH
I really wouldn't try to learn it if I were you guys. It's really hard to learn. It will cause you a lot of headaches and sleepless nights. It will take up a lot of your time. There's more fun things to do. You're not smart enough to handle it.
RD- I think that's because you have what's called 'focus'. As in, the ability to stay on a task. I'm not sure everyone else has that.
-- GSH
i do - well for a short while until i get distracted by ten thousand naked girls stampeding through my house
Quote from: bigbadbogie on May 03, 2008, 04:39:40 AM
i do - well for a short while until i get distracted by ten thousand naked girls stampeding through my house
Well, in *that* case, you
definitely should not do it. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Not so sure about the focus thing. I have about 30 books started around the house. But, I can pick up right where I left off when I pick one up again. Not sure if that counts. Maybe multi-focused?
Okay, for the sake of clarity, I was listing some the reasons people give them themselves for not attempting it (or anything really). If you can get past those voices in your head and just get an attitude of "I'm a-gonna whip this thing.", then there is almost no limit to what you can accomplish. Well, except for Av. The guy just has
no gumption at all.. :-P
Ten-thousand nak...
Oddly enough, I would probably still be glued to my screen... programming... too addicted, and get more so every day...
>.>
<.<
Either way, Python is only useful for my multiplayer capable scriptor, if you are not going to do that then do not bother, C++ is better.
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Quote from: Red Devil on May 03, 2008, 02:02:43 AM
I really wouldn't try to learn it if I were you guys. It's really hard to learn. It will cause you a lot of headaches and sleepless nights. It will take up a lot of your time. There's more fun things to do. You're not smart enough to handle it.
Eh eh eh :?. It? Do you mean C++ or Visual Basic or the visual studio interface?
Well, looks like I am going to be teaching Warfreak some... I wonder if I can use this to study for my final...
Quote from: OvermindDL1 on May 02, 2008, 08:58:52 PM
I meant it is useless for anything relating to BZ2. :)
No argument there...
QuoteAnd the Basic dialect in Office is different then normal Basic, so although the syntax may be similar, it would not really help you to learn real Basic when dealing with Office Basic.
It's a subset of VB, hence the name VBA, and it certainly did help that I'd already had tons of experience in VB 5.0 when moving to VBA. There are a lot of omissions but there are just as many duplications, or at least similar enough to grasp quickly.
QuoteAnd I doubt that, my Python scripting powers in OpenOffice have been put to the test at work (yes, we use OOo). :)
Scripting an Office app in Python is so much more simple, so fewer commands you have to call...
Ah, I had to add some fine print... we'd be using MS Office 2003 and Excel, and you'd have to be making Government spreadsheets... :)
-Av-
So...learning C++ would be the best overall choice for BZII related stuff? I was working in GMAX again the other day and started to read up on putting together some simple max scripts as it reminds me some what of the way Python functions only for 3d Max. GSL, also supports a scripting utility based around the TSX SDK for Truespace as well.
From what I've noticed formating seems to be a common denominator amongst the programming languages in general. All seem to share some commonalities across the board, and the express edition of C++ is well documented after I installed the library files for help from MSDN. I think I'll try my hand at C++ and see where that leads me.
The nice thing about MSV C++, is the basic tutorials included to help non programmers like myself get a basic understanding of how the language works by teaching the basics of creating simple programs, U.I.s, other related tasks. I've somewhat lost interest in making simple non animated models.
My focus is now more or less on attempting some work in the area of animation conversion between popular 3d formats via learning to write a simple program that can take say an existing animated file and translate the geometry, texture, and IK components into either a compatible BZII X or XSI animated file. I have more confidence in the X version as the 1.1 XSI version seems pretty much obsolete.
The X version, on the other hand, seems like it'll pretty much be around when we've all kicked the bucket and moved on to BZ heaven. PS: Does any one know of an alternate site that focuses on C++ learning resources as that seems to be the best overall programming language to get started on...Tanks BNG.
That is one thing about C++ as well; it is by far the most documented language on the planet, probably even exceeding almost all spoken languages as well.
As for sites, there are literally thousands, probably hundreds of thousands. If you are like me and just mostly want code snippets then I would recommend http://www.codeproject.com/ since it has a ton, most have good descriptions, but I mostly just want the code snippets (although it has probably been a good two years since I have really been there...).
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I tried to teach him about namespaces and defining them for the entire program, specific commands, and not at all. He is having an issue with his compiler looking in the wrong place for the EXE after making it.
Tanks for the tip OM. I currently receive their newsletter, but haven't visited their site in quite a while, but I will, so I can get started on learning C++.
i think youre all nuts.. why learn a nearly impossible language when you only need to learn the dll scriptor??
Yeah, you're right. No point in it.
C++ ain't that bad (at least not so far). Seems pretty easy to me and a lot of people in my class AFAIK. Only the IT majors seem to have problems with it. The computer science, myself included, don't seem to be having any trouble.
I can't use the scriptor, it cunfuzzles me. :roll:
you cant use the scriptor but you can use c++?? NOW IVE HEARD EVERYTHING!!!
Been saying it since I figured it out.
u is nutta
Quote from: bigbadbogie on May 06, 2008, 10:53:03 PM
i think youre all nuts.. why learn a nearly impossible language when you only need to learn the dll scriptor??
Er... multiplayer? A lot more advanced functionality? Etc...?
The scriptor is incredibly limiting, why would you not want to learn something more powerful in exchange?
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maybe because its insanely hard....
Oh man did I wish I had started C++ while I was still in highschool... I was so naive... I used to look in the BZII executable and wonder "How in the world to people program this stuff?" If only I knew I was looking at the wrong code, that was post-compiled stuff! :-P
and also because i am the laziest person on the planet - how i made a mod ill never know
Just on a side note, I also DL'ed Visual C# 2005 Express, the SP1 service pack for it and Game Studio Express for XNA as well. I figure what the hell, maybe with all these at least one should prove of some usefulness for BZII application. Update: Apparently VSC++ 2008 express is supported under XP/PRO, and there's a game creation application called, Dark GDK available for C++ for making games for both Windows and the XBOX platform. It's a massive DL @ 218 meg, but I'm downloading it too. There's also something called, Popfly which I'd like to also check out for usefulness for BZII. Both sound realy cool for learning stuff related to game creation under Windows. Boy! When I take bite at programming stuff I already feel that choking sensation, and I haven't even dived into the massive amount of information to digest.
With some effort maybe I help get some kind of Phoenix to manifest itself from the ashes I'm sure I'll create in the learning process relating to programming, and if I like the results and feel I have an aptitude towards programming I may just pursue the matter further by going back to college again (at least maybe one of those that have an online version.)