Battlezone Universe

Battlezone Universe => Battlezone 2 => Maps and Modding => Topic started by: Warfreak on May 24, 2008, 04:56:21 PM

Title: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Warfreak on May 24, 2008, 04:56:21 PM
I KNOW i found something of the sorts on FishdotXSI before, i jsut never tested it....

So, in hopes that we may still have a chance at "organic" animation, does anyone either have a good idea of how to do it (and get it to export) or know where a copy of that page from the FishdotXSI website may be lurking.

Thanks a bunch.  :-D
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: BNG Da BZ Fool on May 25, 2008, 11:56:16 PM
Don't know about max, but blender and gsl both appear to support vertex animation. Other then that don't really have a clue how it works. You might try a web search for max tutorials as I understand some peeps have done some awesome stuff using python and maxscripts to work around things.
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: bigbadbogie on May 26, 2008, 12:38:53 AM
vertex anims are actaully quite easy in max - the only problem is that they wont export with the xsi exporter

the scion ships were made in softimageXSI and use a special type of vertex animation unique to that program - basically, unless somebody makes a new exporter that exports softimage style vertex anims from max, we are screwed
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: OvermindDL1 on May 26, 2008, 02:49:38 AM
Supposedly B3D should, just needs to be tested and cleaned up so it works correctly.
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Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: bigbadbogie on May 26, 2008, 03:00:05 AM
you are the resident programmer... any chance of a max vertex anim exporter OM??
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Nielk1 on May 26, 2008, 04:47:19 AM
If he can get the source for the current one.
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Avatar on May 26, 2008, 02:27:45 PM
As stated in other threads along these lines, according to dx the Pandemic exporter for Max 3 DOES export vertex animations when done with the proper controller.

I haven't tested this, so feel free to do so...

-Av-
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Warfreak on May 26, 2008, 04:31:53 PM
Well, Heaven forbid that we will ahve to reset the defaults of 3ds Max 6 and over liek last time.......

I know I found somewhere the exact controls to experiment with, Xform i think it was, something liek that.....
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Avatar on May 26, 2008, 05:00:21 PM
I'm certain Linked XForm doesn't make it through the Pandemic exporter...  I'd have some beautifully animated walkers if it did...

Apparently you have to assign a controller to sets of verticies, animate them, and it'll make it through...

or something like that...  :)


-Av-

Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Nielk1 on May 26, 2008, 06:03:40 PM
I changed by default controller to TCB for normal movements, is that the one we can use for vertex ones?
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: bigbadbogie on May 26, 2008, 09:33:21 PM
nope
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: BNG Da BZ Fool on May 28, 2008, 04:25:43 PM
Are vertex animations handled the same way by the KFE? Also, is scaling a vertex function? Just wanted to know as gsl works with vertex animation as I've seen in the output files of the x exporter it uses.

The KFE it supports has quite a few options for recording stuff like texture, bump, color, surface, invisible, etc. I disabled most of them, but do currently use kinematics, move, and rotate enabled. Scale, was disabled as someone said that bz2 doesn't handle this option.

Also, noticed that studying the files in a text editor is helping me to understand animation entries a bit more. Copy and paste operations are proving very useful for moving things around in a model file. For example, copying the animation section from an x2xsi file to the threed version will allow an animation to occur. Still trying to do the same thing only in this copy operation i'm atempting to get the texture section from the threed version into the x2xsi version as it won't show any texture.
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Nielk1 on May 28, 2008, 04:56:42 PM
The only way to scale in BZ2 is with vertex animation.
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: BNG Da BZ Fool on May 28, 2008, 07:50:13 PM
Now i'm really confused...does that mean that i should enable the vertex option? I think MTS said something to the effect that the scaling entry in one of my xsi text files had no meaning to the bz2 engine. N1, could you elaborate a bit more more about what you mean as far as vertex animation is the only way bz2 using scaling? Tanks, BNG.
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Nielk1 on May 28, 2008, 07:58:58 PM
Scale type animations are not used by the Battlezone 2 engine.
Two simulate a scale animation, you must take each vertex of the object and move it away from the center. The issue with scale animations is, if BZ2 did use them, should it also scale child meshes? should it scale from center or from origin? It was a lot simpler to just rely on vertex animations since they had them.
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: bigbadbogie on May 28, 2008, 09:47:31 PM
so they do work - they just wont export
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: OvermindDL1 on May 28, 2008, 11:35:41 PM
They need to be converted to translate functions first in other words.
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Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Warfreak on June 05, 2008, 04:41:48 PM
Its my topic, so ill bump it up :P.

Anyhow, to seriousness now: Linked Xform DOES NOT make it through teh exporter...... that and i cant find any other controller that allows parts of the mesh to be linked to other meshes...  :-(
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Nielk1 on June 05, 2008, 05:27:56 PM
What happens when we just move the points around and key frame it, does it not key frame? (never tried)
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Warfreak on June 05, 2008, 06:49:03 PM
It Doesnt register as animation, it registers as editing the mesh if oyu jsut move around the points..... THis is one of those times when Dx has to finally cough up what he knows.... :x
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Warfreak on June 07, 2008, 05:00:42 PM
0_o, i jsut realized something...... I forgot there was the Skin controller for 3DS Max... the ONLY problem with it is is that it is by far the most complex way of setting up vertexes for animation (i've only seen the Halo 1 models use it really, so i dont have much of an idea how it works).
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: bigbadbogie on June 08, 2008, 02:06:38 AM
all halflife 2 models use that - its damn tuf to do though
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Warfreak on June 08, 2008, 04:05:36 PM
Im gonna test out if the Covenant Ghost exports with its "skin" later on today.... only problem being the pivots of the controllers are WAY too messed up for bz2.... im scared to even mess with them.  :|
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: OvermindDL1 on June 08, 2008, 10:31:29 PM
I remember when vertex animations were faster then bone animations, now, because bone animations can be done on the video card itself, they are much faster.  Also vastly easier to program for, hence why everything, like HL2, uses bone animations near exclusively.

Kinda funny though, because the bones themselves are animate using vertex animation, just with only a dozen or so vertices instead of thousands, and the video card can link all the visible ones to the bones with various weights. :)
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Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: BNG Da BZ Fool on June 08, 2008, 10:35:35 PM
Are there any settings that can be adjusted in max? In gsl the k f editor has like a dozen or so parameters that can be selected by right clicking the record button while in the scene editor, but i'm not sure such things work with max.

PS: Does hl2 use the mdl format?
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: OvermindDL1 on June 08, 2008, 11:12:28 PM
HL2 supports the mdl format I think, but it prefers newer formats, don't really recall which, check in the official wiki?
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Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Warfreak on June 09, 2008, 01:33:42 PM
It DOES use mdl, but thats not all you need..... the main format it looks for to build all its models (yes, everything you put into the folowing format is converted into it own separate files) is .smd .   There is an exporter for 3DS Max, but im not sure if there is one for anything NOT Autodesk.  :|
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: bigbadbogie on June 09, 2008, 10:17:26 PM
yeh - i got that exporter to test it out - modding hl2 is near impossible to somebody who cant c++ code

even the modelling is extremely difficult
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Nielk1 on June 10, 2008, 04:23:12 AM
I was thinking we could get the entire BZ2 style of things (touch a unit to get in, pick up weapon crates, interface screen) into the source engine and even add unit collisions and some cool physics, but it would take a lot of time.
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: bigbadbogie on June 10, 2008, 05:13:37 AM
ive been looking up some source tutorials - god, it is probably easier to make a brand new game then to make a source mod!!
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Nielk1 on June 10, 2008, 06:07:48 AM
I think a source mod is a brand new game, only using the source engine. Its like making a game for any engine.
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: OvermindDL1 on June 10, 2008, 08:02:21 AM
Actually modding source is quite easy, definitely one of the easiest out for its power, the only one that might beat it in ease of moddability would be the Unreal Engine, but the Source engine is more capable and faster while being able to run on lower-end hardware as well, mostly *because* it uses C++ rather then UnrealScript. :P
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Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: bigbadbogie on June 10, 2008, 08:28:29 AM
no - its easy for obsessed geeks who spend 18 hours a day on their computers, coding and coding and coding and modding and coding and... you get the picture :-P
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: TheJamsh on June 10, 2008, 07:15:12 PM
unreal tournament also gets dead boring... after a couple of years :D
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Nielk1 on June 11, 2008, 03:47:11 AM
Quote from: bigbadbogie on June 10, 2008, 08:28:29 AM
no - its easy for obsessed geeks who spend 18 hours a day on their computers, coding and coding and coding and modding and coding and... you get the picture :-P

I don't do that. Most of my time goes to sleeping.

Why do I sleep so much. Oh my! I have to see if there is a way to see if I still have Lyme's, cause that would cause this.

Note: Lyme's is not fun, and I am supposed to always test positive now I think. :roll:
Title: Re: Vertex animation.... any ideas (3dsMax)
Post by: Warfreak on June 14, 2008, 11:31:55 PM
-_-.... you know, I was going to say that i have the Scion Warrior fully into the Source Engine as a prop (WORKING!!!) but for that you little Snail Slug.... ill make you suffer......

BTW, i did this all in 20 minutes TOPS..... and im one of the low-end modders here (i dont know C++, and I hear that im not too good with the other areas).