It would be extremely conveneiant if when someone joins a game where they dont have the map, that they could download it off the server. Starcraft does this and its great.
Forget it. BZ2 has enough issues without that... and it would be a huge hassle for GSH now.
You could always hope for it in pb5.. if there is going to be a pb5.
I think you can using the "Join IP" button. If not, try putting "+connect ip:port" temporarily into your BZ2 shortcut.
Quote from: Feared_1 on July 16, 2008, 07:06:26 AM
I think you can using the "Join IP" button. If not, try putting "+connect ip:port" temporarily into your BZ2 shortcut.
That wouldnt solve the missing map problem IIRC
Well it works in 1.2, which is why I was sure to add "I think" :-D
Quote from: Feared_1 on July 16, 2008, 07:09:37 AM
Well it works in 1.2, which is why I was sure to add "I think" :-D
What I mean is, as soon as you join the server, you start dl'ing the map immediately. is that what it does?
Quote from: Ac/dc on July 16, 2008, 06:32:34 AM
It would be extremely conveneiant if when someone joins a game where they dont have the map, that they could download it off the server. Starcraft does this and its great.
Convenient yes, but it would have trouble like storing the map somewhere so it could download, a way that the engine would know when and where to download it from. the problems if the map wasn't there two years later because someone didn't update the new location, etc.
It's a cool feature, but I don't think it'll be done because of the problems. The best thoughts on my side is to put a link in the server information since that still can be read (the last time I was on) by the player without the maps o they can go get it.
You don't want anything running in the background on Battlezone II, and you especially don't want to be downloading/uploading things while your game is running. Any host will tell you this. I ban people on my servers when they join with too high of a ping, because once they join it messes up the whole world for everyone already there.
Quote from: Axeminister on July 16, 2008, 12:50:57 PM
You don't want anything running in the background on Battlezone II, and you especially don't want to be downloading/uploading things while your game is running. Any host will tell you this. I ban people on my servers when they join with too high of a ping, because once they join it messes up the whole world for everyone already there.
my suggestion is already carried out in starcraft and works fine.
Because Blizzard's Battle Net grabs from the host.... which im surprised doesn't take so long......
Any Source Ded Server actually pulls off grabbing from a cache from somewhere on the internet and then throws it at your face wit halmsot an hour of downloads sometimes.
The Reason WE CANNOT AND WILLNOT do this IS BECAUSE (this is mostly a recap if anyone didnt read the entire topic):
1. We have no where to keep all the files in one place accessable by the bzone.exe if it where ever placed into effect.
2. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH CODING THIS WOULD TAKE
-this would result in redoing the Bad assets check so maps dont get checked
-the loading bar would haveto be updated, server configuration files would have to be made AND readable by the bzone.exe,
-bzone.exe would have t obe made to pull out maps and put them in your maps folder,
-lastly servers would have to update their stuff every once in a while......
THATS ONLY WHAT I CAN THINK OF OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.
3. what is so hard for one to jsut go to their favorite BZ place to get maps, install the maps , and then join a server.....
4. BZ2 ISNT made to be running 500 things in the background, Starcraft and other NEW games are.
Until you can convince The Dev Team (er... 2) of the need and benefit of this, it won't happen....... (and if it does, you will be waiting basically for pb10, as the entire code that runs MP will probably need to be redone in order to make this work..)
I was trying to make a list of all the maps in BZ2 into my wiki but I burned out doing that after just 1 day. It was cross linking the names and bzn files.
I wonder what GSH has to say on this idea.
It's a good idea, I just don't know how hard it would be to add. (Probably fairly difficult)
The problem is the way bz2 maps work, I mean, even if he sends the map files and directory info over, he has to send the correct textures, and used objects, meshes, etc. Some maps may be in pak files, or the assets they use, turning the entire thing into a horrid mess. The best we can really do is be sure to have a perfect step by step install guide out there to ensure everyone has every map. I started to make some guides but they are horribly incomplete. I myself have not ventured into the crazy ZST maps cause of texture conflictions I have heard about.
I dont really like this idea much.
What if a modder was testing a new map and then 10 people suddenly decide to join and all get their hands on his map.. then they send it out to the community and claim that they made it.
Hypothetically, you could go Quake 3 p2p style map downloading, as in sharing between two comps instead of storing the map on a server (and not having to worry about a move). On Q3:A you can disable map downloading with a single server setting, so that would also help.
If this were ever to go into effect, I would suggest having a couple new fields in the Start Server dialog or on the lobby Options pane:
Enable P2P Map Downloading: [Yes] [No] (Choose whether or not to allow computer to computer map downloading [bold is default])
Map Location (nonlocal): [<url>] (Added this in hindsight as it seemed like a good idea. Specified by map INF. If both this and P2P downloading are enabled, it would make sence to resort to this first, and if the map is not found, go to P2P mode and use the below settings)
Max P2P Transfer Rate: [<number>] (prevent the P2P from hogging up so much net traffic that the game itself bogs down, default 25kbps for Broadband)
Max P2P Ping: [<number>] (Keep people with high pings from downloading from your game and jamming up the works)
Again, that was all hypothetical, I doubt that the feature ever WILL go in, but if it does, those settings would help keep the latency and network traffic jams to a minimum.
This has been brought up before. GSH said, if my memory is correct, the feature would be too difficult to implement and could pose a security concern especially if the map uses its own dll.
Really, for something like that to would would require it to be a part of the game's base design.
A temporary location for downloaded files, a standardization for map files and scripts, and tons of other strange things would be needed.
Ohh, I didn't see the "download" part. My bad.
GSH said that PB4a is NOT to add new fun things to twist around in our slimy, green fingers, but to correct some AVs and resyncs that were missed before release of PB4.
Its not going to happen, at least not within the foreseeable future.
Quote from: Warfreak on July 16, 2008, 03:16:29 PM
Because Blizzard's Battle Net STORES ALL MAPS EVER PLAYED INTO THEIR INTERNAL SERVERS..... and then pulls them out from there.....
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. When two Starcract (or Warcraft 2 BNE, or Warcraft 3) games connect, whether direct or through BNet, the map is downloaded from the host, hence why the speed is directly related to his upload. If another person joins that also has the map, and there are two or more people that do not have the map, then he will also try to upload the map to the other, if not firewalled or what-not.
Probably a good method would be like Spring's CADownloader.
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Really....... oh, i feel stupid now..... *fixed*
Automagic map downloads have been requested for years. I've been patching BZ2 for years, too. If auto map downloads were easy, I would have done them by now. The problem is that BZ2's filesystem code is fundamentally designed around a *boatload* of loose files. (There's something like 4000+ files in patch13.pak). Any of those files can refer to a dozen others -- ODFs, wavs, mshs, textures, etc. There's no easy way to figure out what file(s) are used short of loading the map. Plus, with things like mpvehicles.txt or autoreg files, the host can require another pile of files be loaded, independent of the map.
Other games have done a better job organizing things from the beginning. It's a fundamental shift in the way all file access is done. It's not something you can easily patch in later.
-- GSH
Quote from: GSH on July 17, 2008, 05:21:57 PM
There's something like 4000+ files in patch13.pak). Any of those files can refer to a dozen others -- ODFs, wavs, mshs, textures, etc
At last count, there were 3612 files.
Quote from: Steeveeo on July 18, 2008, 02:32:44 AM
At last count, there were 3612 files.
Wow, Steeveeo. That must have taken days :lol:
The point is there's a lot in there.
Even if autodownloading was added you would have to restart bz2 for the new map to show up.
Quote from: Feared_1 on July 18, 2008, 02:39:20 AM
Wow, Steeveeo. That must have taken days :lol:
um...actually it took less than a minute (not counting extraction times).
I just extracted the entirety of the patch13.pak into a folder recently to test for asset collisions, and when I highlighted all of them to move them around, Windows Explorer told me the file count. Simple as that.
Quote from: Steeveeo on July 18, 2008, 05:16:59 AM
um...actually it took less than a minute (not counting extraction times).
I just extracted the entirety of the patch13.pak into a folder recently to test for asset collisions, and when I highlighted all of them to move them around, Windows Explorer told me the file count. Simple as that.
Actually, I
was joking.
I see 4018 files in addon in the 'raw assets' folder for pb4a's installer. That's before the installer pulls some files off to the maps13 folder -- which is only a figment of the installer's imagination.
Before compressing for the installer, there are 4198 total files, 275MB on disk. Modder data is a separate 488 files, 48MB on disk. Compression does a heck of a job.
-- GSH
Quote from: GSH on July 18, 2008, 05:23:34 AM
I see 4018 files in addon in the 'raw assets' folder for pb4a's installer. That's before the installer pulls some files off to the maps13 folder -- which is only a figment of the installer's imagination.
Before compressing for the installer, there are 4198 total files, 275MB on disk. Modder data is a separate 488 files, 48MB on disk. Compression does a heck of a job.
-- GSH
I was citing what was in the patch13.pak (as you referenced having 4k+), not the installer.
was the PAK Explorer made by someone on this community? it probably has one of the best compression capabilities ive seen...
theres also one called PakScape (but this wont open BZII pak files), it will open some PAK files on playstation discs though :P.
sorry thats not relevant, but a nice little nougat of information...
Quote from: Commando on July 18, 2008, 03:00:31 AM
Even if autodownloading was added you would have to restart bz2 for the new map to show up.
Hence a CADownloader style would work. Maybe a whole new lobby needs to be created externally of BZ2. BZ2 supports the command line parameters necessary for logging in and joining a game directly without user intervention, right? And if so, what are they?
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If a map reference the location of a zip or other format file for install, we could do something that DLs maps you don't have and sits them in a place for you to install.