my general question is how do modelers come up with the things they do? from scrath? whats the technique.
im sat in front of 3DS max seven with a little knowledge of how to use it, and yet my mind is blank. i cannot picture any new models without even those looking threeded! (even though i played with lego for like 14 years lol!)
so what do you do?
I started by recreating things that had already been done... (BZ1 ships)
That gets you the basics, after which you start playing with Max like a kid plays with Play-Doh...
As far as making ships and such to me it's VERY important that you have an overall design laid out ahead of time. If you're making new Scion and ISDF ships and buildings you first should look over what's there and note how they're different or the same. If you're making a new race you should come up with some simple aspects of the race you're making.
For instance, for the Ancient Hadeans I had the ruins from BZ1 to look at. This tells me most everything they have is large, black, looks like an oven with fire going inside, and is very blocky and squared off. So, the things I made for them were similar... because making a slim, smooth, delicate ship for them wouldn't have fit in with the rest of their stuff.
So decide what kind of race you're making, what kind of technology they have, and then make some basic pieces. Make a few engines, some cockpits, some wings, and then start building various levels of ships out of them.
It also helps to look around the internet at existing things that do the same thing as what you're making will do... for instance to make a bulldozer unit you'd look at existing bulldozers, then make something similar but with the characteristics of your race.
-Av-
http://nielk1.deviantart.com/favourites/#Spaceships-and-Scifi (http://nielk1.deviantart.com/favourites/#Spaceships-and-Scifi)
Not in whole, but it gives ideas.
I figure out what I want a unit to do first, then think about it a bit, sleep on it maybe, then stare into the black background of lithunwrap for a while, and then produce some basic shape for a main part of the model, this part is important, the primative shapes that you start with will completely define the whole look of the model and what you can form it into.
Once I have a rough "3d sketch" I start to work on the skin and uvmapping as this is probably the most important bit to get right near the start.
Once I have something I like, I go through my conversion process, and build a .xsi, an odf for it, then test it.
It never works right the first time.
I would then probably completely recreate the model after this first phase, to eliminate any bits I did not like, minimise the poly count and improve the skin, uvmapping etc.
Rebuild the .xsi, test and then start adding stuff like flames and animations.
Animations need to be thought about from the start (of the second build at least) and pivot points created in the right places.
Its also important to figure out what can be done and what can't, Its no good deciding to build a War of the Worlds type tripod walker when there is no way you will ever get its snake like limbs to work well in bz2.
I have a tendency to draw out symmetrical shapes using the polyline tool in GSL which is basically like drawing dots connected with straight line sections and it forms a one sided nurbs curve outline of the main body of the model. If I like what I see forming then I'll hit the convert nurbs curve icon to turn the outline object in to a solid geometric patch.
I usually start from the top view for this initial part. Afterwords, to see what the shape would look in 3d I'll hit the sweep (extrude) tool and look at the result in the perspective view port and then rotate the view 360 degrees to see how the model appears from different angles. If I like what I see then I just begin adding other parts that typically might appear on the type of model that I'm trying to make.
A tank for example is a good basic model to construct and typically has a main body, turret, machine guns, and a main gun. I used to be a tanker in the Army, so making them is easy for me as I had 3 years to study the parts that make them up.
I also have a great love for aircraft so I've studied photographs of them for years and now have a good general knowledge of what parts needed to be added to my models. Your own countries civilian and military vehicles are a great place to look for getting ideas on what your models might look like.
One technique which helps get proportions right is to use a background image into MAX to use as a reference image. In GSL the easiest way to do this is to draw out a 4 sided plane object, texture it with a photograph/drawing of something similar to the model you might want to make, and use the draw line tool in MAX to sketch out the main body parts. Like I mentioned earlier it's basically drawing dots and connecting them with lines which can be expanded 3 dimensionally with the extrusion tools in MAX. You'll probably need to rotate the image 180 degrees as in GSL as the image appears upside down when the UV is applied; not sure how this works in MAX, but in GSL the UV is selected and rotated 180 degrees to get the thing to Aline with the texture.
Another way would be to get a pencil and paper to roughly draw out the basic model structure and scan it as an image file and then use it as a background image.
Another option would be to use 3DEX to convert the data pack XSI's to 3DS and import them directly into MAX. Then you could directly edit the geometry and modify things to make them any way you want. The hierarchal structure would remain the same, and when your finished you could use the save as option to create an entirely new model and export it as XSI; you'll need the Pandemic XSI exporter for this option though. I did this with GSL only in my case I converted them to COB format as this is the native format for both GSL and TS 3.2.
As for creating a race your best option would be to look towards your favorite movies, television series, or even your own imagination. Dreams help me to envision new BZII races though I haven't yet come up with a race so far.
Quote from: TheJamsh on July 27, 2008, 09:05:44 AM
my general question is how do modelers come up with the things they do? from scrath? whats the technique.
im sat in front of 3DS max seven with a little knowledge of how to use it, and yet my mind is blank. i cannot picture any new models without even those looking threeded! (even though i played with lego for like 14 years lol!)
so what do you do?
Sit back. Dim the lights. Take some deep breaths....and contemplate the humble pickle. From the majestic jumbo dill to the tiny sweet gherkin. Cucumbers, yet imbued with the vinagarey zest of preservation...time travelers afloat in their medium, as near as your refrigerator! Go! Get them! Turn the jar in the light as they twirl sedately within!
Quote from: AcneVulgaris on July 28, 2008, 04:16:24 AM
Sit back. Dim the lights. Take some deep breaths....and contemplate the humble pickle. From the majestic jumbo dill to the tiny sweet gherkin. Cucumbers, yet imbued with the vinagarey zest of preservation...time travelers afloat in their medium, as near as your refrigerator! Go! Get them! Turn the jar in the light as they twirl sedately within!
I found this post amazingly peaceful (after about 5 minutes of hard laugher).
I found it surprisingly helpful. After I got over the fact that he was still talking about pickles.
Contemplate the simplicity, and the answer will arise from the brine.
VSMIT.
I often model without purpose and then cannibalize parts for each of those models.
You cannibalize pickles? Wouldn't that mean you're a pickle also?
:-o
-Av-
Only in some circles. In others he could be a cucumber. :wink:
Look at his skin...he's obviously transforming into a bipedal pickle, the most rare and wonderful pickle of all.
Pencil, Paper, some imagination, a little ingenuity, lots of peace.
Or you can look at other objects for ideas, like trees for instance :P
Bah...
"Form Follows Function"...
Figure out what you want by what you want it to do. Too many times people make very strange objects just to make them strange.
FS's LandStrider walkers, for instance, look like those bird toys you used to see bobbing into a glass of water. While they get good height that way, from a strictly functional point of view it'd be more practical to just have a higher hovering tank...
IOW make them look like they could really do what you want them to do, not just look cool or weird...'
-Av-
I think another part of modeling inspiration is imbued via the skillset you have accumulated and earned toying with the CAD.
"That is, the more you know what the software can and cannot do, the more you realize what YOU can and cannot do. " ~techfucius
Definately... I tend to stick to chamferboxes and trapezoids, and do a lot of face building manually, because that's how I started and how I learned. Other people do all organic nurbs and curves for the same reason...
There are also some basics that have arisen after decades of sci-fi tv, movie, and video games... basics which can be pretty well summed up in terms of Babylon V... :)
You have your Earth tech. Lots of plates, mostly big, squared-off ships that look like guns, rocket tubes and big guns. Lots of variety, from ships that look like moving scaffolding to giant balls and cylinders making up a space station. You can see the rivets, and while not overwhelmingly powerful they do have some punch in large numbers. Human tech often advances rapidly during the course of a story, especially when in contact with advanced alien races.
You have your Vorlon tech. Smooth, rounded, semi-organic, no visible means of defense or propulsion, but slightly retro with what looks like big solar sails and energy vents. Not very numerous but VERY powerful and mysterious and ALMOST where we are going to be... their tech is what we aspire to but they don't share. Like the difference between a 1950's big bakelite telephone and a modern cell phone, you can tell their tech and ours are related but that there's a lot of distance between them.
You have your Shadow tech. Dark. Mysterious. Insect-looking. Might be alive, for all we know. You never get a good, solid look at them and there's virtually no variety but they're VERY good at what they do so they only need one model... deadly and very much out of reach.
-Av-
I start using random deformations and doing lots of extrusions. Some of my models start as mere cubes. Others start as cylinders, that get Boolean operationed to form arches, that then get modified using extrusion and other Boolean operations. Sometimes things I make change from other things, like the Orbital Support AWACS I've made. It started out as an archway tunnel, but then became an upper plate for a ship, and then the lower ship extruded from that, and the engines took shape (at first as a cockpit) and then the ship was reshaped slightly to be wider at the now front, and an AWACS dish added, and a cover plate booleaned to the main body followed by a few vertex movements, welds, and headaches.