Look is there a fairly easy program for texturing models making tank models and even pilot models is not so bad for me but texturing? well I heard of a texturing modelling prgram that is supposed to be quite easy and its not lithwrap, I have Doga L series so I can make lots of models with that and I have made quite a few models with that and although I will have to make models again as I have my main PC upgraded in Windows XP . I have had quite a few problems over the years , that is why I haven't been able to work much on my "Dark Empires" mod and I am working on my 2 of PC games on my own so I have a lot of work to do , epecially to redo all my models again.
Does anyone know what the name of this texture program or any texture progrm as I don't wish to use 3D Max V5 as I want to get this mod out and I think 3D Max might ake to long
thaks for your help in anticipation
MAX is great for it, but to see what it 'really' looks like you should do a quick render since MAX optimized the texture maps/textures themselves when editing.
I have found max the best really.
MAX ? you mean 3D MAX yeah well I don't know I think I will take the guide down from BZ universe but I am sure htere was another texture program out , but I can't for the life of me remember the name I know it was featured in PC Format though
You could try the UV mapper that comes with Truespace 7.6. Then you would only need to import your model into it as like 3DS, or X to use it. It supports several different mapping options like spherical, cubic, planar and cylindrical options. It's pretty easy to use once you get the hang of it, and it saves out in several different paint formats like BMP, TGA, JPG, and DDS.
Check out my post covering TS 7.6 and the link to download it. If you choose to get it then also DL the PDF manual as it covers how to use the UV map utility in sufficient detail to get you started bro. BNG.
Oh Sorry about that BNG Da BZ Fool been away working on my own game, thanks I will download it and try it
Any decent paint program will make simple textures, the secret is painting them well. I use the UV mapper in TS to export directly to a paint program like Paint.Net. The problem is figuring out how to use the add layer tool to paint several layers and keep the original UV map untouched. Does anyone know of any tutorials covering the preparation of a texture for BZII models? It would seem that the easiest way to create a decent texture would be to just use the model itself rendered from the top, bottom, front and back including the scene lights to high lite certain areas of the model and then just touch up those areas you want to tweak. Then after saving the file just stretch the UV map to conform to the painted texture in the map editor. Any thoughts on the subject would very much be appreciated by those of us looking for a relatively simple way to custom skin our ships. Tanks, BNG. PS: To setup the paint program you want to output to in TS is fairly simple. Right click the UV map icon, click on External Editor button, in the search box locate the paint executable file and select open. To send your UV map to the paint program, in the UV editor window right click the folder icon, and select the second option link to the external paint program; it'll ask you to name the file and select the format, i.e., BMP, TGA, PNG, JPG, etc. Once you finish painting your map then save the file and when you return to TS the map will appear automatically on your model. It's easy enough to use, but painting a convincing custom skin is another story...Van Gogh where are you when we need you? BNG.
When just getting started with texturing ships I highly recommend taking a page from the 'old school' method and try for as much symmetry in your model as possible. This allows you to make a single, planar (flat) texture with, for instance, the right half being the bottom of the ship and the left half being the top. You can then add areas of detail around those major sections to fill in anything that the planar mapping doesn't properly texture.
Most of the older 3D games used this method, as it saves on texture size and lets you use more of the space in your texture for detail. The downside is you need a fairly symmetrical object for it to work well.
-Av-
Have you tried this:
http://www.bz2md.com/fishdotxsi/skin.htm
LOOK!^ :-o
You can use that to make models too!
I've seen that tutorial, and it's a good one for MAX users, but we need something more oriented to actually painting the skins if you know what I mean? I've somewhat resigned to using material colors in my models as a shortcut way to decorate them.
In TS this is done by clicking the material editor icon to bring up material color palette. The primary options are painting over the entire object and the second is using a paint brush to paint individual faces. It works fairly simple for prepping the model to be UV mapped as it's map editor uses the mat colors to colorize the UV map in the editor which can be used to separate the colored objects into color groups similar to those used in Lithunwrap when selected in it's options settings.
Really the best option for learning to paint a decent skin would be to spend some time mastering whatever paint program you like using and taking the time needed to learn to use the tools it supports.
(http://static1.filefront.com/images/personal/l/lppena/106799/cctrnqhhls.thumb500.jpg)
A good first step, and I mean VERY first step, would be to go through the available skins for both stock and mod play. Looking at them can give you a lot of ideas, and you can even 'borrow' pieces of them to learn to change coloring, shading, and scaling.
Another, more labor intensive way to generate skins is to actually make a hi-res model, complete with rivets, access plates, pipes, grooves, and everything else that you want painted onto a game object. You can apply all of those cool dirty textures from your 3D package that would never export into the actual game, and use renders of the model to make the skins for the game version.
Takes a LOT of time, though...
-Av-
Quotebut we need something more oriented to actually painting the skins if you know what I mean?
A tutorial would be of limited use. First you need a half decent graphics program, like photoshop at the very least.
Then you need to learn how to use it. Those with artistic flair will still take a while to learn enough techniques to produce nice looking work, those who think they lack such flair will find that it is not essential anyway, graphics programs are not like paint and brush, you cant just do it, you have to know how to. The best way to learn is to just get down and start working at it.
I can draw with pen and pencil, but this skill does not mean I can draw with a computer, I cant! (well maybe, if I had very big paper, a very large bucket of paint, and a computer I didn't mind ruining) Drawing is an brain/eye-hand-paper talent, computer graphics is far more like some sort of planned engineering design, nothing pleasing ever "just happens" as it can with real-world art.
As for photoshop, my most used plugin is from EyeCandy its called Bevel Boss.
I also found the Flaming Pear plugins to be very very useful
I DO NOT have photoshop, or Gimp.
I use Paint.Net and a few effect tricks that come with the program to achieve my textures.
Here is an example of a texture i FINALLY got looking somewhat decent. Click to See (http://www.bzcomplex.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0)
I'll post pic of model MUCH later, still need to add ALOT of stuff.
Use a perma-link! that points to the newest image int he gallery!
http://www.bzcomplex.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1220
There is your permalink.
Skinning a model really seems far more complex then actually creating the models themselves. I have a few questions about unwrapping a model UV verses just UV mapping it. In TS as with a typical 3d modeler we all understand that in order to apply a texture map a model it first needs to be mapped right? I noticed that TS also supports a tool called unwrapper. To use it you minimumally need to delete at least one face on the object to use it as it does not support closed objects. Anyways, once a face is deleted and the tool applied to the object then the tool actually unwraps the object into a nice flat UV map without the typical overlapping UV lines seen in say a cubic mapped object. I don't quite understand it yet, but the end result looks relatively clean and uncluttered. Does Lithunwrap work this way, or is it just basic a UV map making utility? I tried posting an image but Filefront is a bit buggy today.
Have been reading these posts on texturing units. I'm using Blender 2.46 to make units and have OM's BZ2.XSI exporter which works well, I can get coloured units but no textures. I REALLY want to be able to texture my units, What I'm stuck on is this whole idea of "UV wrapping"? (Is this right?). I don't have any "paint" tools but would like to get a good free download, any ideas? If someone could point me in the right direction about texturing and UV wrapping I would be very greatful!!
Try Paint.net or GIMP both support some pretty cool painting tools. Download Truespace 7.6 and give the UV unwrap tool it supports to unwrap your models UV a try. It can import many popular 3d formats like X and 3DS. It has several unwrap options including the standard UV mapping tools as well. See my other post on Unwrapping verses UV mapping. BNG. PS: I think quite a few of us want to learn to make custom unit skins, but most of the tutorials cover using GMAX and 3d MAX, I don't think Blender is covered although I understand there are several tutorials on Blenders website. Once I figure out how to do it in TS I'll eventually post a tut myself.
Cool, many thanks! A tut would be great!
MTS, made a cool suggestion about starting with a cool based texture and then basically enhancing it with more customization by the skin creator them self. I would imagine this could work quite well with prop textures like wood, plant leaves, rocks and other common terrain objects. TS, has a broad array of included premade textures that with some basic modification might just serve as a good starting point for such model skins. TS also supports adding multiple textures as layers over the base texture by modulating the opacity levels for blending several textures into one. I still need to explore this much more, but after using TS for a while it's sheer simplicity shines like a gem in the middle of a very complex 3d modeling desert landscape. BNG.
My first feeble attempt at skining my viper scout using TS 7.6 to planar map, and paint with Paint.net. I mostly bucket filled, painted a few wavy lines set to 50% opacity with a simple tile reflection effect applied, and saved. TS, applies the texture as soon as you save the file. The other parts you see are nothing more then the material colors I applied in TS's material editor. I added one layer in Paint just in case anyone wondered.
(http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/l/lppena/106799/swmrpdvcdp.jpg)
Part of the problem I see with using any UV map is the distortion added when one paints over the thing, saves it and then when it's actually applied back on to the model how horrible the end results are. Is this typical of the difficulties a modeler can expect when trying to skin a model? I've gotten much better visual looking results just UV mapping objects piece by piece rather then mapping the entire model based off a standard UV map using a single texture map. I can see now how really little I personally understand about the UV mapping process; what you see isn't at all what you get until you actually put in to practice. There's just got be a more comprehend-able way to custom skin a model. What sounds a bit more doable is either taking a screen shot or actual rendering of the model complete with material colors and lighting effects to get a true 1:1 aspect ratio, paint that, save it, and then in the modeler tweak the UV lines to conform to the texture map rather then the other way around. Any thoughts would be appreciated by all of us on what else to try to get a handle on skinning models and props for BZII.
I've already outlined my method, which is use a base UV (planar, cylindrical, spherical) and then 'fine tune' the troublesome spots individually. I find this the best mix of efficiency/results...
You CAN carefully apply a planar map adjusted to align with each group of planar faces, and map them one cluster at a time, but this can make creating the initial texture more difficult and takes a boatload of time.
There are texturing tools that 'explode' the UVMap, making the faces show up their correct size and orientation, but I've never used one. You can do the same thing yourself by separating the faces, mapping them, and then rejoining them. I've seen a tutorial that did just that, separating the faces into clusters, mapping them, and assigning them groups for later mapping, but it just seems like SO much work for so little payback.
There's at least one package on the market that puts the object in front of you and gives you tools like paintbrush, spraycan, decal, etc.. You actually 'paint' the object in real time, generating the texture as you do so. This is cool, very realistic, but I don't think I'd get very good results from it.
The ultimate end all method of generating a good texture is to make a very highly detailed model using real-world type textures for the materials, and then using it to take screenshots to create the texture from. I've done this a few times and it works very well, even allowing you to shadow and highlight the texture realistically. If only it didn't take so DARN much time to do this... but then you also have a very high-poly model for use in movies or whenever games allow models with millions of polys...
In the end I envy artists like Lizard, who can not only make the object but a great texture for it also. It's a skill I've yet to master.
-Av-
Quote from: Avatar on March 04, 2009, 01:59:29 AM
In the end I envy artists like Lizard, who can not only make the object but a great texture for it also. It's a skill I've yet to master.
It has taken me years, but I finally believe that am starting to get better at texturing.
The QF mod is a perfect example of how not to texture units. I am very disappointed with that part of it.
If you want to learn to texture units well BNG, just keep trying until you start getting satisfactory results. It does take time though.
It would be nice if everyone used the same tools for texture skinning, but realistically each of us has to use the tools currently in our modeling tool box. I sincerely appreciate the forum posts that have been posted to help other modelers get a handle on how to try different methods to get a resulting model skin. I almost hope that this topic gets stickied as a place where modders can post how to's on painting better model skins.
That said, I found a little trick that seems to work well for me. In TS 7.6 I resized the the UV editor window to the approximate dimensions of my model (the default view is very square). What I did was to make the window more or less rectangular (vertically in the case of my viper scout). Then, I linked to my external paint program and after loading it the resulting image was quite a bit closer in aspect then the default square output I was using before. The only parts that I actually texture mapped were the top and bottom of the model body itself (separated using the separate object tool in TS). Effectively creating 2 halves when viewed from the side of the model body. I deleted the 2 faces that were formed between the 2 halves and attached the 2 pieces in the hierarchy tree (drag and drop operation in the scene editor of TS).
Afterwords, each half was planar mapped and exported to Paint.net. I duplicated the image as a second layer and began painting on to the 2nd layer (leaving the 1st alone in case I screwed up the 2nd layer. I bucket filled to paint a base coat and used the line/curve tool to paint decorations over the base coat (movable points on the drawn line were manipulated to form symmetrical curve objects at key points along the base coat. Then after I was happy with the lined curves I went into the effects menu and applied a distortion called tile reflection (basically a diamond shape tile overlay. Then I saved the file and returned to TS and the skin was auto applied to the model part perfectly aligned on the model. I repeated this for the other half and then saved it as an X model file. I opened it in Notepad and removed a few extra characters that the X exporter adds but messes up things like hp's and other BZII controllable objects and saved the file again. Then I opened the file in Threed and saved it as an XSI file. The 2 texture files were exported along with the X file to my BZII addon/bngassets folder and the model was ready to be viewed and test in the BZII map editor. BNG.
Do your UV tools allow you to specify how to adjust the mapping you apply? In Max you have the basic types (Face, Box, Planar, Cylindrical, Spherical) and then you have modifiers as to how to fit that type to the object (Fit, Region Fit, Bitmap Fit, Center, Acquire, Normal Align, View Align).
I ask because you can use Bitmap Fit in Max to scale the mapping to match the bitmap. Not always a big deal when using game textures, as most have to be powers of 2 and square, but it can help a lot when using odd textures, or when you want to make sure your mapping is proportional to the texture.
-Av-
Sorry to take so long to reply, but sometimes strange stuff gets in the way to read some posts. In TS other then the normal UV map types stuff like face, texture rotation, scale are mostly done using a box that surrounds the selected area. The UV editor also allows stuff to be positioned by point, face, and edge selection. What I really found useful is mapping by individual faces as the normal mapping never really seems to look visually correct. Applying a basic cubic mapping works fairly well, but remapping single faces really lines things up very nicely afterwords especially on small planar surfaces like those seen on stuff like doorway openings and such.
I remember when I made some buildings for SW he mentioned that the textures he applied just wouldn't line up right, and neither of us had a clue why. Part of the problem had something to do with Threed and part with the model geometry as well I guess. I reset the rotation to 0 0 0, but the building in question was none the less positioned at something like a 45 degree angle in the modeling workspace. I suspect this is part of the problem. The other day I created a hollowed out building and had to face map many of the faces manually to get them to look right; especially the interior walls and such. I'm slowly grasping the whole purpose behind UV mapping, but it really requires a ton of work to get things to lineup and look right. BNG
This plant was planar mapped, resized in the UV editor and seperated for painting. One problem though, the other side of the leafs will end up the same color as the top of the leafs. One way I can seperate the other side is to face paint them different colors so that I can seperate them in the TS UV map tool.
(http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/l/lppena/106799/ihfdywbjeh.jpg)
In MAX I select the faces I am mapping before applying the base planar map.
I can do the same with TS, and then select the mapping as well. Will this work for generating a single texture skin though; like those used for the original BZII textures? I guess that I'm trying to some how work towards something roughly equivalent via TS's UV mapping tools. I prefer something relatively simple for simpletons like myself. Paint.net, seems fairly easy to add new layer's and seems easier to use then GIMP.
Does anyone have any actual painting techniques to pass on? Getting a base UV map into a paint program is the easy part, but using the paint programs artistic tools is where I tend to draw a blank on what to do next? What I've done so far is duplicate the layer to leave the original layer alone for use as a guide, and then start actually painting stuff on the new layers. Does this sound like a logical starting point? I noticed that in Paint.net if you click more in the color wheel; it expands the panel so I can adjust stuff like the alpha transparency levels among other adjustments I don't quite comprehend yet. Posting some techniques would greatly be appreciated. BNG.
When I edit the UV I move it off the main 'square'. I do this for all of them then select all mesh and UVW edit and have all the UV shapes ready to scale, move, rotate, and otherwise fit into the main 'square' of my texture.
one day, BNG will be the modelling king :lol:
That would be quite doubtful TJ, but I would like to learn the basics of texturing my models. Creating a simple texture is fairly easy to make, but making it actually look decent is a whole nother en-chee-la-da. Both Paint.net and GIMP are very cool, but using their' tools takes some real thinking, and quite a bit of imagination. I used to get in to trouble in school, back in the day, for daydreaming on paper drawing model airplanes and such. Now, that I'm much older my creative imagination seems to have evaporated into sheer nothingness. Alas, where oh where has my mag-i-nation a gone. BNG :|