Battlezone Universe

Battlezone Universe => Battlezone 2 => Maps and Modding => Topic started by: Darkplanet01 on November 10, 2008, 05:18:20 AM

Title: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 10, 2008, 05:18:20 AM
this one concerning model-making. What program(s) can I use to make my own units for Battlezone 2? And where get I get them? I have found quite a bit of information but little of it is very straightforward on this subject. I hope people will forgive me for asking such pathetic questions.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 10, 2008, 05:24:19 AM
Oh yeah, just a side note - free programs would be preferred.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: AHadley on November 10, 2008, 07:44:11 AM
I think a lot of people use Gmax for modelling and threed for viewing.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Zero Angel on November 10, 2008, 01:33:21 PM
You can use threed to hack together parts from various other ships (so long as you have their XSI files -- Threed can't read MSH). Some of the starfleet and G66 units have done this, but most of the higher quality ships have been made from scratch using various modeling programs which can save to BZ2's softimage XSI format (the old version of XSI, newer XSI formats won't work in BZ2)
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: lucky_foot on November 10, 2008, 02:19:29 PM
Two possible choices for you:

SEMI-FREE

Milkshape 3D plus OvermindDl1's XSI exporter.

SITE: http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/
EXPORTER: http://www.overminddl1.com/forum/index.php/topic,95.0.html


FREE:

Blender 3D plus OvermindDL1's Blender XSI Exporter

SITE: http://www.blender.org/
EXPORTER: http://www.overminddl1.com/forum/index.php/topic,694.0.html
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: TheJamsh on November 10, 2008, 02:41:45 PM
what would we do without OM :)
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: lucky_foot on November 10, 2008, 02:58:20 PM
Given up modding quite a long time ago. :)
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on November 10, 2008, 03:29:55 PM
We had a big discussion about this a while back on MD.

http://www.bz2md.com/smf/index.php?topic=1903.0 (http://www.bz2md.com/smf/index.php?topic=1903.0)

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: General BlackDragon on November 10, 2008, 03:44:08 PM
IF I had to pick a free program, i'd use gmax.

Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Nielk1 on November 10, 2008, 10:27:47 PM
If you are really good with GMAX, look into buying 3DS Max, as at the rudimentary level, they are very similar. (IIRC)
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 11, 2008, 04:38:45 AM
Quote from: lucky_foot on November 10, 2008, 02:19:29 PM
Two possible choices for you:

SEMI-FREE

Milkshape 3D plus OvermindDl1's XSI exporter.

SITE: http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/
EXPORTER: http://www.overminddl1.com/forum/index.php/topic,95.0.html


FREE:

Blender 3D plus OvermindDL1's Blender XSI Exporter

SITE: http://www.blender.org/
EXPORTER: http://www.overminddl1.com/forum/index.php/topic,694.0.html

Thanks. So far your post has been the most helpful because it included links to where I could get the software. Oh yeah, can these do animations as well? And how exactly do you create skins? (Yes, I know, more dumb questions...)
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on November 11, 2008, 07:13:33 AM
I'm not sure about Milkshape, but Blender can do animations.  To make skins for units, you have to UV map them (there will usually be a utility that you can use) and save the map as a BMP, JPG, PNG, etc., then you can color in the image as you see fit.  I've only used Lithunwrap and 3DS MAX's UV mapping tools, so I'm not entirely sure how Blender's or Milkshape's works.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: TheJamsh on November 11, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
WOW... i remember posting that some time last year...

I spent some time learning blender. there are VERY good tutorials for it, but DONT get it if youre new to modelling. IT confuses everything.

3DSMax is the best supported for BZ2...
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 12, 2008, 04:40:38 AM
Quote from: TheJamsh on November 11, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
WOW... i remember posting that some time last year...

I spent some time learning blender. there are VERY good tutorials for it, but DONT get it if youre new to modelling. IT confuses everything.

3DSMax is the best supported for BZ2...
So... where do I get this 3DSMax? Is it free?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on November 12, 2008, 06:37:47 AM
If you can find it cheap, good for you.  It is a professional modeling program, and can cost a bundle for the most recent edition.  For a free program that has an extremely similar interface, GMAX is a good choice.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: lucky_foot on November 12, 2008, 02:19:42 PM
3D max isn't free and as VSMIT said, Gmax is a good choice also. I paid $600 dollars for my copy of 3D max 6.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: BNG Da BZ Fool on November 12, 2008, 05:56:36 PM
If you want a decent free 3d modeler then give Truespace 7.6 a whirl. It's easy to learn and supports an X format that both 3DEX 1.5 and Threed can read easily. It was designed for peeps that don't have much experience making 3d stuff like BZII units and props. You can do X animations, but I haven't quite figured out how to convert them to BZII XSI files, so you'll be limited to making non animated stuff like props, tanks, scouts, rocket tanks, service trucks, assault tanks, scavengers, turrets, apc, aircraft, subs, and weapons like rockets, bombs, and other object derived weapons. I have used it to make dozens of 3d models. GMAX and Blender are okay, but both are pretty complex beasts and give most novice modelers headaches trying to learn them; I know cause I tried them both and settled on Truespace after months of aggravating frustration. Like both of the other modelers mentioned it's also free too. You can get it at  http://www.caligari.com/Products/trueSpace/tS75/brochure/intro.asp BNG

Update: BZII can also load the X model  format that TS 7.6 exports. When exporting the model file as X go in to the X export settings and change the coordinate system to the right handed system otherwise your models will appear backwards. Also, open the X model in notepad and edit out the extra characters that the TS 7.6 X exporter adds; if you don't remove them then your hp_whatever points are ignored by BZII and stuff like weapons won't appear let alone work on your models. I still need to figure out why it can't read the texture information part.  Any feedback would certainly help if possible.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 13, 2008, 08:11:32 AM
Quote from: BNG Da BZ Fool on November 12, 2008, 05:56:36 PM
If you want a decent free 3d modeler then give Truespace 7.6 a whirl. It's easy to learn and supports an X format that both 3DEX 1.5 and Threed can read easily. It was designed for peeps that don't have much experience making 3d stuff like BZII units and props. You can do X animations, but I haven't quite figured out how to convert them to BZII XSI files, so you'll be limited to making non animated stuff like props, tanks, scouts, rocket tanks, service trucks, assault tanks, scavengers, turrets, apc, aircraft, subs, and weapons like rockets, bombs, and other object derived weapons. I have used it to make dozens of 3d models. GMAX and Blender are okay, but both are pretty complex beasts and give most novice modelers headaches trying to learn them; I know cause I tried them both and settled on Truespace after months of aggravating frustration. Like both of the other modelers mentioned it's also free too. You can get it at  http://www.caligari.com/Products/trueSpace/tS75/brochure/intro.asp BNG

Update: BZII can also load the X model  format that TS 7.6 exports. When exporting the model file as X go in to the X export settings and change the coordinate system to the right handed system otherwise your models will appear backwards. Also, open the X model in notepad and edit out the extra characters that the TS 7.6 X exporter adds; if you don't remove them then your hp_whatever points are ignored by BZII and stuff like weapons won't appear let alone work on your models. I still need to figure out why it can't read the texture information part.  Any feedback would certainly help if possible.
So Truespace 7.6 is the best free program for beginners? I'll try that then. I've already downloaded blender and gmax. Blender is VERY complicated, and I haven't really spent any time on gmax yet so I don't know about that. I'll check out TS 7.6.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 14, 2008, 05:11:09 AM
Um... I've encountered a problem and am about to ask the stupidest question thus far. How do I rotate the perspective view (not the actual model) in gmax? I can't find any way to do it.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on November 14, 2008, 05:27:49 AM
If memory serves, it would be ctrl-r, or there's a little button down in the bottom right corner of the console that has a circle with three axis lines going through it.  Those should allow you to rotate the view.  It was hard for me to find, too.  Don't worry about it.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 14, 2008, 05:56:22 AM
Quote from: VSMIT on November 14, 2008, 05:27:49 AM
If memory serves, it would be ctrl-r, or there's a little button down in the bottom right corner of the console that has a circle with three axis lines going through it.  Those should allow you to rotate the view.  It was hard for me to find, too.  Don't worry about it.

VSMIT.
Thank you. You'd think the makers of gmax would make it easy to find.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 14, 2008, 10:02:54 AM
Okay, I'm starting to get the hang of the simpler parts of gmax. My first model, though not fully completed, is looking very promising. One thing I'm wondering is how to do cockpits? Anyone able to help me there?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: AHadley on November 14, 2008, 05:10:49 PM
I do know the cockpit has to be a separate model (with a hp_eyepoint, I think), which you then refer to in the ODF. All you need to do is place the eyepoint (let's say it's the dash below, the arrow shows which way it's facing) and create a cockpit frame in front of it (that's the bracket next to it)

-->
-)
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 14, 2008, 07:55:50 PM
Quote from: AHadley on November 14, 2008, 05:10:49 PM
I do know the cockpit has to be a separate model (with a hp_eyepoint, I think), which you then refer to in the ODF. All you need to do is place the eyepoint (let's say it's the dash below, the arrow shows which way it's facing) and create a cockpit frame in front of it (that's the bracket next to it)

-->
-)
Um... hp_eyepoint? I don't really get that. I'm afraid I haven't got the hang of gmax that much.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 14, 2008, 08:21:40 PM
Just a few more questions concerning gmax.
Q1: If a model is made using more than one shape, is there something special you have to do to them so they'll all work in-game?
Q2: I've done something to the view and now when I click on Arc Rotate, instead of being able to rotate around my model, I'm like a camera on a fixed point - I can zoom in but when I rotate it has the appearance of the model orbitting me, instead of the other way around. Anyone know how to fix this?
Q3: Textures - can any picture, if it's the right size (which, if memory serves, is something around 256x256 pixels), be used to skin a model?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Warfreak on November 14, 2008, 11:21:15 PM
MY SPECIALTY!!!  :-D

Q1: Yes, you must add the extra parts to the mainmesh (whichever one ALL of them share some connection with, or a dummyroot) via the parent-child linking tool. The button is on the Upper left corner of the UI (user interface), you can make sure of button names by hovering your mouse over the button for a second or two. VSMIT can give more details.

Q2: This also happens in 3DS Max. Just press the "zoom extends" button on the far right corner of the UI. this will not only rezoom the window to fit the model in view, but will allow you to rotate like normal again.

Q3: Yes, any picture can be used that GMAX supports, but if oyu want that same texture to be used for BZ2, it must be a .png, .tga or a .bmp (the best quality being .tga)
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on November 15, 2008, 03:03:40 AM
Quote from: Darkplanet01 on November 14, 2008, 08:21:40 PM
Just a few more questions concerning gmax.
Q1: If a model is made using more than one shape, is there something special you have to do to them so they'll all work in-game?
Generally you will have one part that is called "body_main" or some such derivative, and everything should be in the hierarchy under that.  If you don't link them in the fashion that WF said, it won't work right when placed in-game.

QuoteQ2: I've done something to the view and now when I click on Arc Rotate, instead of being able to rotate around my model, I'm like a camera on a fixed point - I can zoom in but when I rotate it has the appearance of the model orbitting me, instead of the other way around. Anyone know how to fix this?
See WF's answer.

QuoteQ3: Textures - can any picture, if it's the right size (which, if memory serves, is something around 256x256 pixels), be used to skin a model?
I believe you can set what size the pic is using one of the UV modifiers.  It should work as long as it is square.  If it's not square, then it will be squished along the longer side.

One more thing.  If you're going to be using the Tempest MD3 exporter, the pivots for all of the meshes in a "scene" will be set to (0,0,0).  My advice would be to export to MD3, use Lithunwrap to convert it to OBJ, then import it into Blender, where you can reset the pivots for the meshes and export to the BZ2 XSI.

Any other questions?  BTW, these aren't dumb questions.  They're asking for help, and the only dumb question is the one not asked.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 15, 2008, 03:11:54 AM
Quote from: VSMIT on November 15, 2008, 03:03:40 AM
Generally you will have one part that is called "body_main" or some such derivative, and everything should be in the hierarchy under that.  If you don't link them in the fashion that WF said, it won't work right when placed in-game.
See WF's answer.
I believe you can set what size the pic is using one of the UV modifiers.  It should work as long as it is square.  If it's not square, then it will be squished along the longer side.

One more thing.  If you're going to be using the Tempest MD3 exporter, the pivots for all of the meshes in a "scene" will be set to (0,0,0).  My advice would be to export to MD3, use Lithunwrap to convert it to OBJ, then import it into Blender, where you can reset the pivots for the meshes and export to the BZ2 XSI.

Any other questions?  BTW, these aren't dumb questions.  They're asking for help, and the only dumb question is the one not asked.

VSMIT.
Heh, yeah, good point. They aren't so much dumb questions. I haven't gotten up to exporting yet, and I was going to ask more questions concerning that when I reached that point, so it's kinda a good thing you explained that now. What exactly is Lithunwrap and what does OBJ stand for?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on November 15, 2008, 03:32:59 AM
Lithunwrap is mostly a texturing program, but Mrtwosheds uses it as a modeling program.  It obviously works as such, but I have never tried using it that way.  OBJ is one of the model files that Lithunwrap exports to.  I have personally had issues exporting as an X file, and OBJ works right every time (for me, anyway).

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 16, 2008, 05:19:22 AM
Quote from: VSMIT on November 15, 2008, 03:03:40 AM
Generally you will have one part that is called "body_main" or some such derivative, and everything should be in the hierarchy under that.  If you don't link them in the fashion that WF said, it won't work right when placed in-game.
See WF's answer.
I believe you can set what size the pic is using one of the UV modifiers.  It should work as long as it is square.  If it's not square, then it will be squished along the longer side.

One more thing.  If you're going to be using the Tempest MD3 exporter, the pivots for all of the meshes in a "scene" will be set to (0,0,0).  My advice would be to export to MD3, use Lithunwrap to convert it to OBJ, then import it into Blender, where you can reset the pivots for the meshes and export to the BZ2 XSI.

Any other questions?  BTW, these aren't dumb questions.  They're asking for help, and the only dumb question is the one not asked.

VSMIT.
In response to your answer to question one, I may need some more details, like exactly what buttons to press. I've only just begun getting the hang of the create button and the modify button, I'm completely in the dark concerning the other buttons.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 16, 2008, 05:35:23 AM
I'm just wondering where the textures for the stock bz2 units are. Anyone able to help me?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Nielk1 on November 16, 2008, 06:31:35 AM
data.pak, all the PIC files, you need the special PIC plugin for Photoshop to edit them. I think there are other ways to convert them.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on November 16, 2008, 08:21:59 AM
Quote from: Darkplanet01 on November 16, 2008, 05:19:22 AM
In response to your answer to question one, I may need some more details, like exactly what buttons to press. I've only just begun getting the hang of the create button and the modify button, I'm completely in the dark concerning the other buttons.
The hierarchy tool is the button with two objects connected by a chain.  Should be up near the select button.  To set the hierarchy, you use the tool and click-and-hold on the child and drag to the parent.  I don't have any screenshots for you at the moment.

Quote from: Nielk1 on November 16, 2008, 06:31:35 AM
data.pak, all the PIC files, you need the special PIC plugin for Photoshop to edit them. I think there are other ways to convert them.
XnView on BZScrap is a good tool for viewing and converting the textures.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: AHadley on November 16, 2008, 11:13:25 AM
I use Infranview to convert all my graphics. I can edit them in there, too, to create team skins of sorts.
Title: Oh bummer...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 17, 2008, 09:17:15 AM
Battlezone 2 has stuffed up on me. I'm afraid I may have fiddled about with the system little too much, and even though I've corrected what I did, it still isn't working properly. I can't host multi games, as the slots for vehicles, maps and the current map are blank, when I try to join one... it's the return of the ACCESS VIOLATION. MAN I HATE THOSE THINGS!!! But that's not all. I can't save, or load my saved games. I checked the folders and the games I had saved before the stuff-up are still there, fortunately. But I can't see them in-game, and I can't save.
And even worse, Battlezone 2 won't uninstall.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: AHadley on November 17, 2008, 04:30:52 PM
Go under add/remove programs, if you haven't already. If it's not uninstallable from that list, or the uninstaller won't work, salvage what you want to keep from the BZII folder and then delete it and everything inside it. Now here comes the difficult bit. This involves registry editing, I'm afraid.

Go to the run box (start>run) and type in 'regedit' (no quotes).

Navigate to the following:

My Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Current Version\Uninstall\Battlezone II


Right-click the Uninstall folder and export it to somewhere unless you make a mistake. I'd put it on your desktop for easy access.

Delete the original folder from the registry.

Now, close and re-open Add or Remove Programs (if it wasn't already open, open it now). Battlezone II should be removed from that list, and from your Program Files folder.

Reinstall BZ2 and patch to the appropriate level.

Hope that helps. If you went wrong somewhere, maybe deleted the wrong thing, just double-click the file you exported earlier and it will integrate itself back into the registry, replacing the stuff you deleted. Bear in mind that that is the ONLY way to replace something you lose in there, there is no 'undo' function. Most guys don't like messing with the registry in case they screw their PC up, but I don't mind it, cause I know what I'm doing :P

Anyhow, this is the only way I can think of if your uninstaller's broken. Just be careful.


Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 20, 2008, 06:42:50 AM
Quote from: AHadley on November 17, 2008, 04:30:52 PM
Go under add/remove programs, if you haven't already. If it's not uninstallable from that list, or the uninstaller won't work, salvage what you want to keep from the BZII folder and then delete it and everything inside it. Now here comes the difficult bit. This involves registry editing, I'm afraid.

Go to the run box (start>run) and type in 'regedit' (no quotes).

Navigate to the following:

My Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Current Version\Uninstall\Battlezone II


Right-click the Uninstall folder and export it to somewhere unless you make a mistake. I'd put it on your desktop for easy access.

Delete the original folder from the registry.

Now, close and re-open Add or Remove Programs (if it wasn't already open, open it now). Battlezone II should be removed from that list, and from your Program Files folder.

Reinstall BZ2 and patch to the appropriate level.

Hope that helps. If you went wrong somewhere, maybe deleted the wrong thing, just double-click the file you exported earlier and it will integrate itself back into the registry, replacing the stuff you deleted. Bear in mind that that is the ONLY way to replace something you lose in there, there is no 'undo' function. Most guys don't like messing with the registry in case they screw their PC up, but I don't mind it, cause I know what I'm doing :P

Anyhow, this is the only way I can think of if your uninstaller's broken. Just be careful.



Ok, firstly, did you mean 'in case' when you said unless. And secondly, when you said delete the original folder from the registry, was that opening up the uninstall folder on the desktop, or from regedit in the run menu. I'm being very careful here because I know one mistake could stuff up the pc. One of my computers already needs to be completely re-set up, I don't want to make that two.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: AHadley on November 20, 2008, 07:54:04 AM
Yes, I did mean in case.

Delete the Battlezone II folder in the registry, not the one you exported. That's just there for you to replace any files you might accidentally delete.

And yeah, be very careful.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Warfreak on November 20, 2008, 11:51:18 PM
you NEVER have to delete BZ2 from the registry. Hell, it is VERY simple to uninstall a bad copy of BZ2. Just salvage what you need and DELETE the folder.

Short, sweet and simple. Also avoids you having to reinstall an entire OS if you mess up the registry.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: AHadley on November 21, 2008, 07:32:33 AM
If you don't delete the folder, you are left with its add/remove entry. If you're going to install to the same directory you might be OK, but I'm not too sure about that. I'm a neat freak when it comes to computers, see. :)
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: TheJamsh on November 21, 2008, 06:58:34 PM
you could jsut use 'uninstall...'
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on November 21, 2008, 10:47:42 PM
I believe the issue he was having was that the install was corrupted and wouldn't uninstall.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Warfreak on November 22, 2008, 01:51:19 AM
In which case the "trash it" method comes to mind (see my last post).  :-P
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: AHadley on November 22, 2008, 10:16:26 AM
I see what I had was quite an unusual situation.

I had deleted the directory, and whilst checking add/remove programs for something else, I found 'Battlezone - The Red Odyssey'. No boxes next to it, though - no option to uninstall. The registry method just removes the entry.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 22, 2008, 09:41:11 PM
Quote from: VSMIT on November 16, 2008, 08:21:59 AM
The hierarchy tool is the button with two objects connected by a chain.  Should be up near the select button.  To set the hierarchy, you use the tool and click-and-hold on the child and drag to the parent.  I don't have any screenshots for you at the moment.
XnView on BZScrap is a good tool for viewing and converting the textures.

VSMIT.
So once I've clicked, held and dragged to the parent it's linked?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 22, 2008, 09:42:52 PM
Can I have links for any downloadable and free ways to view textures please?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on November 23, 2008, 05:33:20 AM
I was just wondering if everyone else has this same minor problem with Forgotten Enemies as I do. If I try to be scions on either FE3way River Mayhem or FE3way Ground Zero, I get the dreaded access violation and Battlezone 2 closes on me. This has happened on every install I've had so I was wondering if it's a bug in the mod.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on November 23, 2008, 07:47:53 AM
Quote from: Darkplanet01 on November 22, 2008, 09:41:11 PM
So once I've clicked, held and dragged to the parent it's linked?
The wireframe for the parent should flash once, and it's linked.

Quote from: Darkplanet01 on November 22, 2008, 09:42:52 PM
Can I have links for any downloadable and free ways to view textures please?
XNView comes to mind.  Look on BZScrap.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: AHadley on November 23, 2008, 11:19:15 AM
InfranView is good too, it just won't save PIC files. It will open them fine, though.

Anybody recommend a *FREE* program I can use to edit with?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on November 23, 2008, 06:32:07 PM
GIMP is the only free one that comes to mind.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: AHadley on November 23, 2008, 08:19:48 PM
Thanks. I've got that kicking around on my HD somewhere.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on December 04, 2008, 09:36:49 PM
OK I've got my model made and skinned and now I need to know how to place weapon hardpoints. Anyone able to help me here?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on December 05, 2008, 07:29:46 AM
You can copy and paste an HP from an existing model into yours, in the correct place.  To position it in Notepad, all you have to do is change the pivot point for that mesh.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Nielk1 on December 05, 2008, 09:19:41 PM
Quote from: VSMIT on December 05, 2008, 07:29:46 AM
You can copy and paste an HP from an existing model into yours, in the correct place.  To position it in Notepad, all you have to do is change the pivot point for that mesh.

VSMIT.

Although then it looks wrong in a 3d editor.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on December 05, 2008, 11:55:32 PM
I was just wondering... where can I get threed? I haven't been able to find it anywhere.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Feared_1 on December 06, 2008, 01:41:18 AM
Threed, aka BZ2ME (BZ2 Model Editor). (http://www.bzscrap.com/downloads/Utilities/bz2me.exe)
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on December 17, 2008, 05:45:31 AM
I was wondering, what different 'hardpoint' type things do I need to place, and what are there functions? I know I need the weapon ones, and the eyepoint, but what else?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on December 17, 2008, 07:26:45 AM
You need an hp_com or the unit will not work.  But other than that, the eyepoint and the weapons, there's nothing else that is necessary.

Quote from: Nielk1 on December 05, 2008, 09:19:41 PM
Although then it looks wrong in a 3d editor.
Actually, all of the mesh coordinates are based off of the pivot.  So if you moved the pivot, the whole hp mesh would move, as well.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on December 17, 2008, 08:05:52 AM
Okay, my model is turning out very nicely, and everything is ready. I now need to know how to get my model into the game, including everything from the moment I've finished making the model in gmax to where I can build it in-game.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on December 17, 2008, 08:20:41 AM
http://www.bz2md.com/fishdotxsi/gmax.htm (http://www.bz2md.com/fishdotxsi/gmax.htm)

Once you have it to XSI, open a random vehicle ODF that has the same hps as the ship you built, and change the ship geometry line to be your mesh.  Place this file in your addon folder and open bz2edit.exe.  Start an IA and open the editor and place your new ship using the object tab.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Nielk1 on December 17, 2008, 08:44:37 AM
Quote from: VSMIT on December 17, 2008, 07:26:45 AM
You need an hp_com or the unit will not work.  But other than that, the eyepoint and the weapons, there's nothing else that is necessary.
Actually, all of the mesh coordinates are based off of the pivot.  So if you moved the pivot, the whole hp mesh would move, as well.

VSMIT.

That was my point. It is right, but it appears wrong, as the visual cue for the user in the editor is not in the right place.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on December 17, 2008, 08:52:13 AM
But not if you add in the hp in Threed or in Notepad.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: BNG Da BZ Fool on December 17, 2008, 08:15:26 PM
What ever ODF you use probably has a LOD1 entry at the bottom of the file. If you leave it then you'll see the original model file and it should either be deleted or edited to show the XSI file name for your model. I found this out one time when I loaded my model into the map editor, and wondered why my model changed as I moved further away from it in the map editor.

Did anyone mention the bindata folder with the MSH files? BZII, creates this file the first time you place a model in the map editor. If you make any changes to your model then delete the files in this folder so the game recreates the MSH file; otherwise you won't see the changes you made to your model file as the game will reuse the original MSH. Om's, MSH viewer is a handy tool for viewing MSH files, and will help you see if your parts are correctly oriented for BZII. Particularly, the pivot point orientation; it may look fine in GMAX, but if the pivot points are not reset 0-0-0 (prior to exporting) then you end up with oddities like hp points firing in the wrong direct or stuff like model bodies appearing like upside down, etc. As I remember vaguely there's a button in GMAX that resets the pivot point to 0-0-0, but GMAX was too complicated for me and I gave up on it after a while in favor of a simpler 3d modeler.

Any ways, after you get your model ready for converting; I assume your using the MD3 exporter in GMAX. Open the file in 3DEX 1.5 and convert it to X in the settings panel of 3DEX. Then open the X file in Threed and saveas XSI. If you edited the ODF file correctly then it should load up into the BZII map editor. If it doesn't load and BZII crashes then you need to go back and figure out why. 
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on December 21, 2008, 10:34:36 PM
I'm using the ivtank ODF for my vehicle. Here's what it contains:

[GameObjectClass]
baseName = "ivtank"
geometryName = "ivtank00.xsi"
cockpitName= "ivtank_cockpit.xsi"
classLabel = "wingman"
scrapValue = 20
scrapCost = 55
customCost = 65
buildTime = 15.0
customTime = 15.0
maxHealth = 3500
maxAmmo = 2200
addAmmo = 5
unitName = "Tank"
aiName = "TankFriend"
aiName2 = "TankEnemy"

heatSignature = 2.0
imageSignature = 2.5
radarSignature = 0.5

isAssault = 0

armorClass = L

requireCount = 2
requireName1 = "ibfact"
requireText1 = "Build Factory"
requireName2 = "ibcbun"
requireText2 = "Build Relay Bunk"

cockpitName = "ivtank_cockpit.xsi"

/////// weapons ///////////////////

weaponMask = 00011

weaponHard1 = "HP_CANNON_1"
weaponName1 = "gatstab_c"
weaponAssault1 = 0
weaponHard2 = "HP_GUN_1"
weaponName2 = "gminigun_c"
weaponAssault2 = 0
weaponHard3 = "HP_GUN_2"
weaponName3 = "gminigun_c"
weaponAssault3 = 0
weaponHard4 = "HP_MORTAR_1"
weaponName4 = "gmortar"
weaponAssault4 = 0
weaponHard5 = "HP_SPECIAL_1"
weaponName5 = ""
weaponAssault5 = 0

////////////////////////////////////

lightHard1 = "hp_light_1"
lightName1 = "spotblue2"
lightHard2 = "hp_light_2"
lightName2 = 

[CraftClass]
rangeScan = 300.0f
periodScan = 5.0f
velocJam = 5.0f
engageRange = 120

braccelFactor = 0.03
velFactor = 0.2
steerFactor = 1.5
omegaFactor = 0.2
strafeFactor = 0.2

avoidSpeed = 20;
topSpeed = 30;

selectWaitMsg = "ivtank05.wav"
selectAttackMsg = "ivtank02.wav"
selectFollowMsg = "ivtank04.wav"
selectGoMsg = "ivtank04.wav"
selectOtherMsg = "ivtank05.wav"
holdMsg = "ivtank12.wav"

goMsg = "ivtank04.wav"
attackMsg = "ivtank06.wav"
followMeMsg = "ivtank08.wav"
followMsg = "ivtank03.wav"
repairMsg = "ivtank09.wav"
reloadMsg = "ivtank09.wav"
rescueMsg = "ivtank10.wav"
recycleMsg = "ivtank11.wav"
otherMsg = "ivtank05.wav"
holdMsg = "ivtank12.wav"
user1Msg = "" 
killedMsg = "ivtank07.wav"
diedMsg = ""

[HoverCraftClass]
velocForward = 28.5 // []
velocReverse = 20.0 // []
velocStrafe = 16.0 // []
accelThrust = 24.0 //acceleration []
accelDragStop = 6.0 //how fast it stops once hands are off controls []
accelJump = 15.0 // []
w
setAltitude = 1.0 // how high off the ground

alphaTrack = 21.0 //springs speed it rights itself []
alphaDamp = 8.0 //shocks []

pitchPitch = 0.25 //nose up []
pitchThrust = 0.1 //nose down []

rollStrafe = 0.08 //rolls while strafing []
omegaSpin = 6.0 //spinning in place speed []
omegaTurn = 2.3 //turning while moving speed []
alphaSteer = 7.0 //how fast it responds to steering []
rollSteer = 0.08 //rolls while steering []

soundThrust = "itank01e.wav"
soundTurbo = "avtanke3.wav"

[Lod1]
geometryName = "ivtankL1.xsi" ;geometry for lod1
distance = 50                 ;...distance over this many meters => switch to lod2

[Lod2]
geometryName = "ivtankL2.xsi" ;geometry for lod2
distance = 100                 ;...distance over this many meters => switch to lod2


What needs editting?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on December 21, 2008, 10:58:40 PM
What tools do I need to export my model to XSI? I'm a little confused at this point.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: bigbadbogie on December 21, 2008, 11:30:27 PM
Did you say that you are using Gmax?

I don't know if there are any .xsi exporters for Gmax...

Are there?
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Warfreak on December 22, 2008, 12:19:07 AM
absolutely none... I suggest you try to learn blender IF you want exporting to be easy, otherwise.... you are gonna have to follow that tutorial that was posted earlier, which btw, is VERY confusing unless you already know the ropes... TRUST ME.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: bigbadbogie on December 22, 2008, 12:44:11 AM
Or you can buy 3dsmax which has working exporters for every version.

I would recommend that one, if you can spare the money.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Darkplanet01 on December 22, 2008, 09:13:43 AM
Quote from: Warfreak on December 22, 2008, 12:19:07 AM
absolutely none... I suggest you try to learn blender IF you want exporting to be easy, otherwise.... you are gonna have to follow that tutorial that was posted earlier, which btw, is VERY confusing unless you already know the ropes... TRUST ME.
Oh drat. A stumbling block in my path. I can't spare the money for 3dsmax. Looks like I'm stuck.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: bigbadbogie on December 22, 2008, 11:15:27 AM
I recommend that you find someone you can trust who has 3dsmax and send your models to them to be exported and sent back as xsis.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: mrtwosheds on December 22, 2008, 04:47:28 PM
There is another way...for those who seek the xsi, it is not a simple path, but the dedicated may reap rewards from the greater understanding to be gained on the longer path...
The first step, is to search this Universe for explanation's that I have previously entered here.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Warfreak on December 22, 2008, 06:25:47 PM
There is one problem to what you said BBB, GMAX doesn't export to 3DS MAX directly. You would STILL need to follow the way GreenHeart describes to even get a format that WILL work with 3DS MAX... or you can find a version of 3dExplorer that reads .P3D.

More trouble than it is worth. I suggest use teh CAD programs and then send a .3ds like that OR learn blender (which HAS a .xsi exporter)

And if all else fails, learn from Twosheds how to make .xsi and edit them with notepad.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: BNG Da BZ Fool on December 23, 2008, 02:08:11 AM
If you're using GMAX to model then you need:

1) 3d Exploration http://www.davidhsmith.net/Gmax_to_3d_Explorer.htm

2) BZ2ME (Threed) http://bzscrap.com/downloads/Utilities/

OBTW, the ODF mentioned above requires that you change the geometryName = entry to the name of your XSI model. Also, edit LOD entry at the bottom of the ODF file to list your XSI model name.

When you convert the X file to XSI with BZ2ME save it in your BZII addon folder along with any textures that are on your XSI model along with the ODF file you modify DP01. Sort of sounds like CP3O or R2D2 jawsome. BNG.

Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: VSMIT on December 23, 2008, 09:25:59 AM
I'm a Max series guy, but I've found that Blender is nearly as easy to use.  Once you get the interface down, it's damn simple.  A welcome FREE alternative to Max, if you're interested.  And they've got video tutorials to boot.  Talk about great service.

VSMIT.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: bigbadbogie on December 23, 2008, 11:21:39 AM
After nearly 3 years, I still find the MAX interface confusing.

And I have made literally thousands of models in it. Blenders interface is about 20x more confusing.

Just so you are aware what you are jumping into.
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: Warfreak on December 23, 2008, 04:28:43 PM
Well, i've used Blender a few times... not too difficult to get certain stuff done. It can import .3ds (if i recall correctly) AND most things that yo uwill NEED are all on one tool bar.

If i could remember which version supports OM's .xsi exporter I'd reinstall and do a quick video tutorial (cause i get SO bored).  :-D
Title: Re: Yet another dumb question...
Post by: TheJamsh on December 23, 2008, 05:56:33 PM
i just found out i can use my CAD program and import models into max from it. Basically, i can now model!

once warfreak teaches me how to use the UV mapper, and animations a bit more ill be done. (still can make textures of course, but ill scab of someone else for that =])